natyakala conference 2009-Dance matters

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 11 Jan 2010, 07:40

I found some links to some sessions here :

http://onlinebharatanatyam.com/2010/01/ ... ence-2009/

Enjoy!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Jan 2010, 23:32

KSL - thank you so much for that link. The video links are great. I enjoyed Sri Dhananjayan's presentation and was struck the extremely 'masculine' (not macho) choreography showcased. His humor was also very unique. I hope that one day, I will get to hear him talk about how he would choreograph the same jati differently for a male and a female dancer. His padam was very personal, and it was nice to see a maLayALam composition in bharatanATyam. The choreography for 'yEn paLLi koNDIr ayyA' was great - starting with the SolkaTTu sung in bhUpALam at the beginning to the nice set of ciTTasvarams in kApi at the end. Th mOhanm piece (composed by Sri TVG) sounded very much like a jatisvaram.

The pick of the presentations to me was the one by Smt. Priyadarshini Govind, giving us an insight into her superbly polished and exquisitely refined choreography - the intent, intellect, and feel that goes into it was very eloquently expressed and very well demonstrated.

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 12 Jan 2010, 01:09

Yes, thanks a lot KSL, for the videos. These videos provide a lot of food for thought.

As a male dancer, choreography/choice of items for male dancers picks my interest. As a dancer, I do not want to be restricted to only Bhakthi margam. Balasaraswati once said that Shringaara is the highest form of Bhakthi. I believe a dancer is sex-less and takes on the form of the character she/he is playing. Tandava and lasya, according to me, are not for males and female dancers respectively but for male and female characters in the dance.

I am very interested in hearing what other dancers and rasikaas think about this issue. Perhaps a new thread is needed for this?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Jan 2010, 01:27

Ganesh, I agree with you in principle, but IMO, the SringAra potrayed by the male dancer should not of be of 'ninnE kOri unnAnu rA' or 'mamata mIri unnAnu rA' variety (that is typical of the SringAra sentiments composed for women dancers to portray). In fact, I find a male dancer's attempts to portray the female in love a bit tedious to watch (especially if it is the theme from the sabdam to the jAvaLi). In the absence of such pieces expressly composed for the male dancer, I think many male dancers choose the bhakti mArgam, which is not a new concept. Even in the 'olden' days, some of the traditional naTTuvanArs taught young girls several bhakti mArgams before they moved on to mArgams that handled more mature thoughts and ideas.

sathirdance · Post by **sathirdance** » 12 Jan 2010, 02:21

Shankar, I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t know which olden days you mean but in the olden days of the Tanjavur Quartet the sringara pieces were often first danced by the male nattuvanar himself in front of the King.
Men dancers, in India, out of fear of being labeled effeminate or more choose for the tedious Bhakthi margam, were the same black and white stories are being told again and again as I have seen this dance season.
Men dancers limit themselves by doing only "masculine"

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 12 Jan 2010, 10:15

I don't think Ravi is saying that male dancers should not perform in the nayika role at all.

But it is HOW male dancers often portray sringara that may sit uneasy with some viewers, including me. I am speaking from a practical, not theoretical, standpoint. The "gender-less" ideal is seldom achieved on stage (K. Mohapatraji and B. Maharajji come the closest, IMO). We are males and females, and because of this fact of nature, we each have our own strengths and tendencies. A man cannot do the same things to express sringaram from the nayika's perspective as a woman could. Why? Because it simply doesn't look the same on the man. Many male dancers overcompensate and exaggerate, so we don't get a vision of Devi, but one of Diva. You can count me as a past offender. That is why male dancers either take the time to dig up those rare gems with a nayaka protagonist or steer clear of the sringara situation altogether. There is a lot of adjusting and experimentation that must occur for a man to be as convincing as a woman in the nayika role. However, this is a two-way street. If you took "Yaro ivar yaro" and asked a narthaki to delineate its meaning as the composer intended, she would be faced with the same difficulties.

dancccin · Post by **dancccin** » 12 Jan 2010, 15:23

Umesh wrote: A man cannot do the same things to express sringaram from the nayika's perspective as a woman could.

Precisely. That's the reason Bharata Muni asked Brahma to give him the apsaras. Every dancer must be aware of his/her human limits.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Jan 2010, 19:30

Umesh - you said it better than I, for obvious reasons.

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 13 Jan 2010, 00:27

Good input guys. Thanks. I think none of us said that males should do Shringaara just like a female would. Question I raised is more about males doing Shringaara at all. On a basic level, I think Shringaara is more challenging than bhakthi. As dancers (male or female) we should challenge ourselves. On a spiritual level, we are all jeevatmas craving to be united with paramatma. And I do think Shringaara is the ultimate Bhakthi (do you love your partner more or your sevaka?).

I think we are limited by our views/opinions in enjoying a performance. Hence a male dancer might have the exceptional ability to portray Shringaara - as a love lorn nayika towards god. But as an audience if you feel squirmish about it, you will not enjoy it. So I ask myself plenty of times - who am I dancing for? Is it for myself? My audience? Or for god?

I agree with what most of you have said. Pragmatic view is often necessary.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 13 Jan 2010, 01:50

ganeshpv wrote: who am I dancing for? Is it for myself? My audience? Or for god?

IMO, only those that truly and truthfully dance for themselves are able to take the audience along with themselves to god (or a higher power)...

I am not sure if any one can dance for god, but as a prayer? Certainly!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 13 Jan 2010, 01:52

Ganesh, I agree that an appropriately composed piece for a male dancer to explore SringAra should be very nice to watch. In the video clip, Sri Dhananjayan performs a padam - something along those lines will be a start...

smala · Post by **smala** » 13 Jan 2010, 03:23

Watch this... the exceptional Kelucharan Mohapatra as he portrays Radha ........from Gita Govindam, full of Shringara rasa.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTQTr1Amd24

And ...in Yahi Madhava Yahi Kesava, from the same treatise, the master illustrating Radha's anguish and torment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpnpE1sn ... re=related

....A sleepless night of passion, your bloodshot eyes express the mood of awakened love. Go away Madhava , oh! Go away Krishna, donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t you lie to me. Go to her Krishna, she will ease your despair; she will cool your burning passion- why come to me? Your bright lips darkened by kissing her kohl-blacked eyes-Oh! Krishna, at dawn they match the colour of your body. The scratches on your body tell of the battle of love, they tell of the triumph of passion like gold writing on sapphire. Oh Krishna, your heart must be blacker than your skin, how can you deceive me, so faithful in our love? Look at the bed of love-the flowers are no more fresh, the sandalwood paste has dried, the oil in the lamp has dried. Oh Krishna oh Madhav, go away, leave me-donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t lie to me.....

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 13 Jan 2010, 05:48

Yes!! And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz9Ra4Dw ... re=related

Watch from around 4:00. The genius is apparent in just a few seconds!

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 13 Jan 2010, 06:25

yes... what he does would not be any different from how a female dancer would do that piece. And still.... it looks amazing. You forget he is Kelucharan Mohapatro. You think he is Radha.

That is what I was talking about earlier.

smala · Post by **smala** » 13 Jan 2010, 06:36

Some thoughts on "effeminate" perceptions of male dancers......http://www.rediff.com/style/dec/11dance.htm

dancccin · Post by **dancccin** » 13 Jan 2010, 09:44

ganeshpv wrote:On a spiritual level, we are all jeevatmas craving to be united with paramatma.

Yes, but there is one thing you should explain to us: why does the individual jeevatma - throughout its evolution - normally incarnates only in a male or only in a female body (there are exceptional cases like the 108 male rishis taking birth as the gopikas). If the rishis themselves - in order to experience Sringara - had to take birth in the women's bodies, it should make you think.

ardhanariswar · Post by **ardhanariswar** » 13 Jan 2010, 10:31

I think its important to recognize the difference between Sex and Gender. Generally, people are physically born either male or female. Gender on the other hand is determined by society, dictating various behavioral and social characteristics for both sexes. Some characteristics are considered masculine and others feminine. But its all unique to each society.

Take clothing for example. Where it's OK for men in Scotland to wear kilts and for men in Southern India to wear Veshti, its socially unacceptable in many parts of the West. It doesn't fit the male gender role.

The only reason why people are so offended by men taking on feminine roles is because they aren't used to it. Its not an argument to say that men are incapable of feeling Sringaram or what a woman is feeling because as previous Rasikas have pointed out, K. Mohapatra and B. Maharaj have managed to communicate just that. Men have been taking on female roles not only in Bharatanatyam, but in Kathakali, Beijing Opera, and Kabuki, and they must be doing something right.

Though gender is specific to culture and society, what isn't is the raw emotion. If you're looking at it through a spiritual lens, all you should see is the soul yearning for God.

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 13 Jan 2010, 10:59

Good points Ardhanariswar. "If you're looking at it through a spiritual lens, all you should see is the soul yearning for God." I like that comment.

Agree about Clothes. So many times, while dancing BN for western audience I wore tanktop-ish costume instead of going bare chested as is the custom.

There is a distinction between dancing female roles dressed up as a male and doing female roles dressed up as females. In the dance traditions you mentioned (beijing opera, kathakkali... and yakshagana, bhagavata mela etc) men dress up as female. I was talking about men - dressed up in male costumes - doing shringaara items.

Thanks for input guys. I appreciate all of you chiming in with comments.

smala · Post by **smala** » 14 Jan 2010, 09:11

...for the input guys....and gals.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 14 Jan 2010, 12:40

There are only two kinds of dancing:
those you can watch, good
those you cant, bad

Now, what i find watchable might not be what you find watchable.
Sudharani raghupathy plays a meek aandal in paingili vannan. Anita Ratnam plays it strong and commanding. I am sure if Alarmel valli did the same piece, she would be her coquettish self. Theres a market to watch women play coy meek roles, then again some find Sudharani's playing of a meek coy mother india in Vande Maataram squeamish. Theres a market which thinks Valli's friskiness in every piece immature, another which thinks its full of spirit. Theres a market that feels Kalakshetra dancers are "too stiff" or their shringara lacks depth and some that call it mature abhinaya and clean lines. Then there is a market that self-proclaims it to be authentic bharatanatyam all over the internet.

There is a market which thinks Balasaraswati's grandson a great dancer. There is a market that believes Balasaraswati was a great dancer. There is a market that thinks Padma Subramanyam a great dancer. Another one that thinks Rukmini Devi a great choreographer. Some cant stand some of them.

And then there are others who manage to make you forget that you are watching a particular style/ language/ a composition of a given length, raaga, taala/gender/individual and take you for a journey intended with the words and movements. It only happens when the artist has an open mind and more importantly the rasika is not finding fault but trying to watch a performance. It is completely okay, if you find a characteristic of a dancer indigestable. I cant stand watching salsa dancers grinding against each other. There is a country full of people who enjoy that!

I do not understand the need to debate which composition, which style, how many karnas, how much hip movement, how hard to hit the floor, how much to sit when you dance, how many poses to strike, lines or circles, shringara or bhakti, bhakti shringara or shringara bhakti. I might love my spouse more than GOd. He might love God more than me!! Everyone has a different taste. Enjoy dances/ performers you like and can stand. And watch people you cannot stand, occasionally, and see if there is something you can learn from them too.

If different people can coexist, so can different styles and different men/women who draw their own boundaries as to what and how they want to perform. We live in a democracy. You are free to watch/leave. I am free to dance as i seem fit.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 14 Jan 2010, 12:54

@ rshankar
Big fan of Priyadarshini Govind

I love everything about her. I think she practices this kind of meditative music for her dance with excellent angasudhdham and uses the strength of vazhuvoor style to the best. You will never see her lacking aramandi or not keeping a graceful line or an uncontrolled wrist/body movement. Everything yells class and grace!! I am always smitten.

This presentation, i should point out, did reveal a trend in her choice of music. She does use a lot of beejakshara mantras (is that the right word for all mantras) to give this meditative feeling and her singers/nattuvanars produce this perfect sruthi matched singing and saying of the mantras in the background. Her devi stuti, om namah shivayah, the kandan kauthuvam song...everything has excellent rendition on various levels. I go into a trance

ardhanariswar · Post by **ardhanariswar** » 15 Jan 2010, 06:58

I really liked the excerpts that Nandani Ramani played during her lecture demo. Does anyone know how we would be able to access the Balasaraswati archive created by Jon B. Higgins? I'd love to hear the entire Mohamana varnam. I really like how they sing during the varnam's theermanams. Very unique.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 16 Jan 2010, 06:06

http://rapidshare.com/files/335946071/Mohamana.mp3.html

ganeshpv · Post by **ganeshpv** » 16 Jan 2010, 10:33

whoa! Thanks!

Satyajit Ray supposedly shot both Krishna nee and Mohamana (abridged version - 12 minutes) with Bala for Doordarshan.
This Krishna nee begane video is available commercially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuq7ncvjYE

Is Mohamana is also available? Does anyone know? Perhaps Smithsonian archives have Mohamana too.

Also, who is singing along with Jon Higgins in the file Umesh uploaded?

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 18 Jan 2010, 09:24

Ms.Priyadarshini's lecture was supposedly about her "kinetics".. i didnt see anything about tht in her lec dem.. I liked the jathis and the thillanas though! The devi jathi specially!

And also while closing, she said something like "you might hear a hundred noises, a thousand melodies, but all tht matters is how deep ur araimandi is... etc etc" I didnt understand wat she meant by tht.. Can someone pls explain wat ms.priyadarsini was trying to convey by those closing lines?

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 18 Jan 2010, 10:42

I think she meant, it does not matter how many people sing your praises, how great a song you choose to dance to or what research you unearth in the process, if it is not accompanied by right technical aspects in execution (like a deep aramandi (the sitting posture), straight and graceful lines (of limbs and body) and lack of control), it is a bad performance.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 18 Jan 2010, 11:46

Ms. Priyardarshini's lecture was on individualistic style. It was hari Krishnan and Srividyas presentation that was on kinetics of kittappa pillais choreography

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 19 Jan 2010, 08:53

@ksl: From what i understand by seeing http://www.natyakalaconference.com/programme.html i think Priyadarsini's lecture was also on changing kinetics.. the video's caption also says "Changing Kinetics :Of individualistic style- Priyadarshini Govind"!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Jan 2010, 19:26

Madhan - Smt. Govind's presentation was exactly on the lines I interpretted her topic to be - how she has evolved her (individual) style to interpret movement (kinetics) - whether it be jatis or any other movement - she explained what drives her thought process - i.e., the use of bIjAkshara mantrams, solkaTTu and movements to evoke anklets for the jati in the section that goes 'naTanam ADum SEvaDi' etc., for example, and she ended by saying whether the kinetics are new or ancient, evolving or stagnant, they are not worth much if they occur in the absence of proper technique - i.e. aRaimaNDi etc....

Sri Hari Krishnan and Smt. Srividya's presentation focused on the basis behind Sri Kittapa's choregraphic genius and how they are taking that further by exploring some areas that 'vAdyAr' had not.

ardhanariswar · Post by **ardhanariswar** » 05 Feb 2010, 05:35

Does anyone know the name of the Varnam that Kandappa Pillai's students performed the Pallavi of? Even better, does anyone have an mp3? Thanks!

ardhanariswar · Post by **ardhanariswar** » 05 Feb 2010, 05:39

PS. Thank you Umesh for the mp3! I had to slow it down a bit, its amazing how fast the nattuvanar recites the jathis. I can't imagine dancing to that at all.

madhan · Post by **madhan** » 05 Feb 2010, 10:10

Thanks for your explanation rshankar.. Can u also tell me how u look at her closing lines?? And wat she exactly meant by them?