Speeches in Concerts

[arasi]

If the organizers always keep it all short and sweet, we would not have these discussions on speeches at all. We will take them in stride just as we do with a few mike adjustments, performers fine tuning their instruments and so on.

What we come across are the following:
A young professional, works even on weekends, travels, has little time to spare for the family, let alone for the music which he loves; wants to spend a few hours litening to live music; gets to the venue from a long distance through traffic; comes in panting, thinking that he is late; the event hasn't started on time--he waits and waits, thinks he should have gone home; then comes the intro speech (long), concert is curtailed, more speeches later in the concert (not at the end); he goes through this ordeal too to hear a few more numbers...there are several members here who fall into that category.

Now, the seniors: they needn't spend so much energy and time sitting in a chair (not very comfortable) to listen to anything but the music they have come to listen to. Of course, short speeches are okay. If you read our reviews, you would find someone like Rajgalan saying, 'pity, I couldn't stay any longer, I had to catch that bus, or find an auto'. To come all the way from a distance but with the fear that one would be stranded if the concert is delayed or is unnecessarily dragged on because of long speeches is not an ideal thing to worry about while you are listening to music.
We do not expect the same conditions one finds in western concerts. A temple concert has its own ambience. So do sabha concerts. If indians were known for not keeping time, it is high time we changed that image--just as we have caught up with the age of technology. Just as we would leave home on time (even earlier now, to allow for the traffic delays) to catch a flight.
We add on to the hurdles which stop us from enjoying music when the organizers are not that particular about starting on time (performers too, unless they were not rendered helpless).
If some of you say we have to suffer it all if we want to listen to the music we love, I am afraid, I don't get it. Will a concert lose its cultural value if speeches are not long? If delays are not a merry part of it?
I really have to change my mind about the harsh ringing of the MA bell at the beginning and end of concerts. It says things better than all the reams of lines we write about long speeches and things which come in the way of our enjoying good music in a peaceful state.
This is also the time to applaud all the organizers and performers who make an ideal evening of music a reality for us: no delays, no long speeches, no elaborate sound adjustments after the start of the concerts...

[srkris]

Are we talking only of speeches by organizers or also by the musicians?

I wouldnt mind a musician speaking in the gaps between songs, if its relevant to music.

[Nick H]

Organisers, mainly, although I did mention garrulous musicians earlier.

If a musician has something to say about what they are performing, that's fine.

I know I can get a bit too serious about this sometimes, but I'm not suggesting turning concerts into some kind of monastic discipline!

[vasanthakokilam]

The frustrating thing about this thread is, even when people agree 75%, it seems like there is 100% disagreement

See if this captures the discussion so far. Not that everyone agrees with all these points.
-------------
1. Majority of the people do not like long speeches, whether interesting, lively or not. Concert is the main thing and it should be that way.
2. Small vocal minority does not want any speeches, including intro and wrap up.
3. Small minority does not mind long speeches as long as it is relevant to the artists, organization etc

4. Ticketed concerts - No speeches please. Complain as loud as you can about speeches.
5. Free concerts - No complaints about speeches please as long as it is not excessive. If speeches are excessive or long winded or just plain annoying, complain. The organizers ought to get better.
6. Free concerts for a cause - No complaints about speeches. Contribute if you can and enjoy the concert. People have to speak to motivate people to contribute and fund raise further beyond the concert.
--------------

[VK RAMAN]

Define short speech? How many of our rasikas watch TV and if so how do they react to commercials? Commercials take atleast 70-80% of the air time. There is no freebee TV and every one pays for the connection.

[Nick H]

vk... i think you have it there, more or less, and I don't think we will ever form an exact code.

VKR... that is one of the reasons I do not watch TV.

[arasi]

Ditto here. And what is left of the programs does not amount to much!
While I am in India, I do watch a few segments of the mArgazhi mahA utsavam (not all,because I am at a concert most of the time). Those commercials don't bother me much (like short speeches!). I watched Nivedita's programs on podigai and no commercials there! I have watched a few malayAlam and kannaDa channels when I am asked to listen to a CM concert.

srkris,
Whatever the performers say in a concert is worth listening to-but not always, and definitely not at length. We have the lec-dems for that. I get restless when the artiste does not speak about his art but about himself and about his students and the sponsors, and in doing so, robs a concert of its time. Worse, when he happens to be an accompanist. While I respect such a vidvAn for his vidvat, I feel frustrated that I am shortchanged, and so are the main performer and other accompanists!

VK,
I think r_t said it right when he gave the example of the pickle's place on a feast banana leaf (plate?). A necessity for some, but the room it occupies on the leaf is about the amount a speech can take up in time. I am not a pickle-eater but I understand that others like it but they too don't make it a big part of what they eat.
Another thought: an understanding that no speech can exceed five minutes as if a timer goes on (better if it does too!).
You know, this thread made me exorcise my frustrations and I will be more tolerant about speeches from now on--even be graceful, if they are really shorty short
Now I will stop spouting

[rajaglan]

Define short speech? How many of our rasikas watch TV and if so how do they react to commercials? Commercials take atleast 70-80% of the air time. There is no freebee TV and every one pays for the connection.

It is very convenient at home to do something else. I getup when commercials come and do some useful work at home (say rasikas.org/forum etc).
And you have the remote to switch the channel. How great it will be if I can switch to KGS when there is speech at SGBS

[girish_a]

If rasikas did not indulge in un-rasikalike behaviour (talking, walking out on tanis etc), they would be justified in their objections to interruptions (rasa-bhanga ), but seeing as that is not the case, we'd better learn to live with the fact that "it is like that only".

[munirao2001]

I now wish that all those speakers, who think that the concert of the day is not complete without their speech performance (well, they have coterie applauding even if the speaker has been repeating the same anecdotes often) read the thread and views of the rasikas and become 'speechless' or 'speak less'.
I recall one incident of one of the top functionery of the Sri Guruvayurappan Bhaktha Sabha Trust, Banglore, wanted to recite a poem in praise of the performing artist, T M Krishna, as part of facilitation and amidst the concert. The rasikas vociferously objected and embarassingly he had beat a retreat, urged by the other functionery of the Sabha. In yet another incident, Sangita Kalanidhi R.K.Srikantan was about to commence his concert, at the right time. But the event orgainzers, Sarada Sangeetha Vidyalaya, Bangalore commenced the award function and the facilitation speeches, went on and on. The popular Arulmallige parthasarathy commencing his speech with 'Eradu mathu mathaduve', took 20 minutes. You can well, imagine the frustration of the vetern RKS and the rasikas.

Every rasika enjoys, few seconds exchange of words/views/communication by the main performing artist, which enlivens and the rapport is strengthened with the artists, even if the communication is addressed to all the rasikas, in general, if the interruption is at the appropriate time of the concert progression.

munirao2001

[Nick H]

How great it will be if I can switch to KGS when there is speech at SGBS

If rasikas did not indulge in un-rasikalike behaviour (talking, walking out on tanis etc), they would be justified in their objections to interruptions ...

Whilst this is very true, two (or more) wrongs do not make a right, and there are plenty of rasikas.org threads on audience behaviour

I now wish that all those speakers, who think that the concert of the day is not complete without their speech performance (well, they have coterie applauding even if the speaker has been repeating the same anecdotes often) read the thread and views of the rasikas and become 'speechless' or 'speak less'.

So do I . We have attracted quite a few musicians to our e-fold; perhaps the organisers will follow!

[he] wanted to recite a poem in praise of the performing artist, T M Krishna, as part of facilitation and amidst the concert. The rasikas vociferously objected and embarassingly he had beat a retreat, urged by the other functionery of the Sabha.

I'm a softie at heart, despite my online bluster, and I do not like to see people hurt or embarassed, but really, if they must plunge headfirst into such an embarrasing situation of their own making, what can one say? :rolleyes:

[Ganesan]

Vasanthakokilam's word is FINAL

"Free concerts for a cause - No complaints about speeches. Contribute if you can and enjoy the concert. People have to speak to motivate people to contribute and fund raise further beyond the concert."

Let there be no further discussion in the matter and accept this as FINAL.

[rshankar]

Let there be no further discussion in the matter and accept this as FINAL.

Pray why?

[arasi]

Ravi,
I don't know why!
Anyway, what I am going to say is not about speeches at al. It is about how I decided to take my comments elsewhere--I ended up at the Hilarity thread, to laugh it all off!

[vasanthakokilam]

BTW, what Ganesan refers to as my FINAL word is not (necessarily) mine. As I cleared indicated in that post, it was just my attempt at a summary of what the discussion has been about so far.

[cienu]

I now wish that all those speakers, who think that the concert of the day is not complete without their speech performance (well, they have coterie applauding even if the speaker has been repeating the same anecdotes often) read the thread and views of the rasikas and become 'speechless' or 'speak less'.
munirao2001

Well said Munirao

[Nick H]

Nothing is FINAL.

but thanks for trying

[vasanthakokilam]

Except death and taxes, of course

[rshankar]

VK - on a definitely lighter vein ( , ) death doesn't have to be final - as Adi Sankara said, 'punarapi jananam, punarapi maraNam..etc'...OR, if you want a Western reference, the saga of Solomon Grundy should convince you (for Monday follows Sunday with unfailing regularity).

Taxes are certain; if they were final, there'd be no audits!

[Nick H]

Except death and taxes, of course

I think that was Nothing is certain, except...

[vasanthakokilam]

Ok, my final answer then is "Nothing is FINAL except Moksha and heat death". Two sides of finality, first is a state of minimal entropy and the second is a state of maximal entropy. Heaven and Hell ?

[Nick H]

Damn... I hate it when people interrupt threads to give speeches on death, taxation, finality and entropy...

[VK RAMAN]

these are different ways to make one speechless!

[vasanthakokilam]

Remember this is for a cause, the ultimate cause, moksha... so per our bylaws, speeches for causes are kosher

[arasi]

VK,
You seem to suggest that when it comes to good causes, speeches are a 'necessity' (necessary evil?--in which case, long speech makers will not end up in the abode of mOKsha Yes, I am pulling your leg.
The lobby can have an array of information and charts about the charity, yes, printed material if there is no space for all this. If there is a speech, it should last only as long as perhaps an announcement--'donations collected in the lobby and you will get a receipt too, thank you'.

[vasanthakokilam]

I do make an exception for concerts that are specifically targeted for a cause or fund raising.

In practice, creating a passion for a cause does not come from printed materials and one liners... That is the ground reality. Those are the cases where speeches are effective. ( As a case in point, look at this cause for no speeches... how many words this has taken.. ha ha.. )

Of course long, laborious and boring speeches are a big liability there as well but one liners usually would not do. The one thing we can ask is that they clearly indicate that the concert is for a cause/fund raising. Those who do not like speeches can simply choose to stay away.

[rshankar]

When it comes to 'speeches for causes' I wish the organizers take a leaf out of Sri Swati Tirunal's book ('that is a lamp, now can I get the money?') instead of going on and on and on......

[Ganesan]

I do make an exception for concerts that are specifically targeted for a cause or fund raising.

In practice, creating a passion for a cause does not come from printed materials and one liners... That is the ground reality. Those are the cases where speeches are effective. ( As a case in point, look at this cause for no speeches... how many words this has taken.. ha ha.. )

Of course long, laborious and boring speeches are a big liability there as well but one liners usually would not do. The one thing we can ask is that they clearly indicate that the concert is for a cause/fund raising. Those who do not like speeches can simply choose to stay away.

THIS IS THE MOST SENSIBLE COMMENT OF ALL!
That is why I said somewhere in my note that those who choose to attend a sponsored concert, say by a Charitable Organization, would do well to expect some speech during the concert. Long or short is relative in terminology. There is no use saying that the speeches are boring because by knowingly attending such a concert, one has shown readiness to listen to the speeches.

[vasanthakokilam]

Arasi: That will be ideal, I agree. But that is not how it is done in practice since the ideal way does not work in most cases. Look at the various other concomitant activities that are associated with causes: Dinner, special shows with pledge drives on PBS etc. The working formula is this. In between the other activity ( concert, dinner, tv shows ), talk about the cause. That is what works. It creates a community around the cause, recruit more people to work as volunteers etc.

The method used is not that different from offering a free weekend stay somewhere in return for listening to a sales pitch for a timeshare. A crude comparison, I acknowledge.

I guess what I am saying is it is not realistic to expect no speeches in a cause centered concert. Hope for a short one but expect a long one.

[arasi]

About Public Television: We send away the annual contribution early in the year to avoid the phone calls--the benefits I reap are immense. Masterpiece Theater, operas, old british comedy--even if I watch one of each for the entire year, it is worth it. However, there is one big difference: you can switch off the TV when they have the pledge week! I cannot switch off a speaker in a concert!

As for benefits involving balls and dinners, those who attend them like them I think, and may be don't mind the short (!) speeches.

[rajaglan]

I once attended a concert for charity by kunnakudi and tabla maestro zakir husain held in
Hotel Windsor manor/Holiday Inn. Well organised and no speeches and there was a dinner too
which I skipped. The catch is the ticket is priced at Rs1200. So you get uninterrupted music
and sponcers get money. I guess the dinner and venue is probably another donation
by the hotel.
But then this doesnot work out for all types of charities. I guess nowadays if you have the
right contacts getting money is less big deal. But I guess sometime you want volunteers who
are passionate about teaching to village kids so that they get jobs at coffe day/pizza corner
or to spend time with elders at old age homes.

[Nick H]

THIS IS THE MOST SENSIBLE COMMENT OF ALL!
That is why I said somewhere in my note that those who choose to attend a sponsored concert, say by a Charitable Organization, would do well to expect some speech during the concert. Long or short is relative in terminology. There is no use saying that the speeches are boring because by knowingly attending such a concert, one has shown readiness to listen to the speeches.

If I drive to work, can I not complain about the traffic? Of course I can.

Yes, we accept that fund-raising events may include some talking. Particularly at those events which are aimed at the launching of a book, CD, or even an entire organisation, it is inevitable that some words are going to be said. Nothing, however, can be more off-putting, than a line up of seven, eight, or more, "VIP"s on the stage, all of whom are going to be called to the microphone, and very few of whom are going to give an interesting speech, long or short. If anyone points a collecting box in my direction at such an event, I am likely to spurn it, and the organisers should have the sense (music aside) to realise that boredom is not the way to generosity.

I recall one such event, a few years ago. It was a good cause, and I wasn't about to complain at the function part of the event --- until it past 9.00pm and was still continuing. This actually, was the occasion on which I witnessed a speaker tell a story about long speeches at functions, and then go on to deliver the whole of his typed script, lengthened by the story. Idiot. We gave up and went home. I mentioned the event to the artists at a subsequent concert; they said that they had nearly given up and gone home too.

But the point is, Ganesan, that we are not talking about such events. We are talking about the average, day-to-day concert, which is about music, not charity, awards, launches, or trades, and many of which pass with no words at all.

As Arasi says, the whole Balls-and-dinners scene is largely a social thing in itself, with many of the people present being there to be seen as much as to see, or listen.

[Nick H]

Oh, whilst replying on another topic in another thread, I got reminded that I stopped going to KJY concerts because I got fed up with his speeches on religion!

[VK RAMAN]

KJY making speeches? This artist is still fighting to enter Guruvayoor temple because he believes in christianity and Guruvayur temple will not let him in. Is it improper to talk about religion when narrow minded fanatics will limit entrance to temple because of faith? He has sung hundreds and thousands of songs in praise of Lord Guruvayurappan and many of hindu faith sing those songs.

[srikant1987]

Is it improper to talk about religion when narrow minded fanatics will limit entrance to temple because of faith?

It is of course proper to talk about religion when narrow-minded fanatics are limiting one's entrance to a temple one wants to. But it's not proper to talk about religion when people have come to listen to some concert programme and are eagerly waiting to listen to some music.

[rshankar]

I did not realize that there were so many rasikas who appreciated speeches in concerts. Makes me wonder if like the 'tukkaDa-loving' group, there is yet another fraction among us that forms the 'speeches-loving' group. May be it is time to have a 'speech review thread', like the 'kutcheri review thread'...

Mods please note: ,

[VK RAMAN]

Is it improper to talk about religion when narrow minded fanatics will limit entrance to temple because of faith?

It is of course proper to talk about religion when narrow-minded fanatics are limiting one's entrance to a temple one wants to. But it's not proper to talk about religion when people have come to listen to some concert programme and are eagerly waiting to listen to some music.

The discussion so far concentrated on speeches of organizers, now we are restricting the artist too? Keep going!

[vasanthakokilam]

I did not realize that there were so many rasikas who appreciated speeches in concerts.

Just to protect my brand , let me state clearly that I am definitely not in the 'speech loving' group. My point of course is all about those free concerts for a cause, it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect no speeches there, not that I necessarily like them. I stay away from a couple of annual events around here where I know the organizers take a preachy tone and ramble on. The kind of extreme cases that Nick points out are just atrocious and just unkind to humanity to put people through an hour of that drudgery.

btw, quite funny on your idea on speech review forum..

[rshankar]

btw, quite funny on your idea on speech review forum..

This is purely with a view to make these reviews as objective as possible: Taking a page out of Rajesh's book - we could have the reviewer time the speech(es), and count the number of 'ums', 'ahs', 'you knows', 'if you know what I means', 'and one more things' etc. in addition to the number of snores that escape the audience, the number of people who pull out their cell phones/blackberries to check email, send messages etc....

[srikant1987]

Sometimes artists say enlightening things, but religious discourses aren't my cup of tea.

[VK RAMAN]

Artists shutup but sing

[srkris]

Is it improper to talk about religion when narrow minded fanatics will limit entrance to temple because of faith?

(Sorry for the digression)

Some people are naive enough to believe whatever they hear in the media.

Neither is Yesudas the most perfect gentleman nor is the Guruvayur Devaswom filled with the most narrow minded fanatics. To think in such a black and white manner is pure naivete. One needs a lot of brainwashing to appear politically correct everytime.

The temples are for the faithful, there is no doubt about it.

Here it is crucial to make a distinction between an inclusive faith as Hinduism (where Christ may be viewed as yet another god or holy man) versus an exclusive faith like Christianity or Islam (which declare "thou shalt not have any other gods before me" as the first commandment or La Ilah Ilallah "there is no god but God")

A Hindu might enter a Church as a Hindu since Christ may be one of the Gods he worships (so he is still faithful to Christ). A Christian cannot enter a temple as a Christian (as he cannot be faithful to anyone other than the god of the bible).

This is the principal difference between an inclusive and an exclusive religion.

There is nothing wrong in requiring people to be of the faith to enter temples. If someone were so broadminded and less fanatic, let them declare themselves as Hindus (though he may still be faithful to Christ) and enter the temples. One doesnt even need to make an elaborate ceremony or get baptized to call oneself a Hindu.

The Hindu faith itself is so broadminded and that's why it is inclusive and not exclusive. Why do we need to take lessons in broadmindedness from exclusive faiths?

But really I think both sides are childish and adamant, that I really wouldnt blame one without blaming the other too. Guruvayur Devaswom just dared to oppose Yesudas, that's all there is to the story to make it sensational and make people go hammer and tongs against it. It is not the most bigoted institution around, although it is bigoted.

He has sung hundreds and thousands of songs in praise of Lord Guruvayurappan and many of hindu faith sing those songs.

What an oft repeated illogical stereotype!!! Guruvayurappan songs are commercial albums meant to sell in the market and make him some money, not to show his devotion to the wide world.

Singers dont release albums in markets to market their devotion. If a film on a God becomes a hit, does it mean its director and producer get direct access to heaven? Isnt it amusing to talk such rubbish?

[VK RAMAN]

Good argument - two negatives make one positive?

[arasi]

Srikanth,
I love it when they say 'enlightening' things too, like the name of a rare rAgam they are going to sing --in one line! When it is a complex tALam, the percussionist explaining it to the audience (again, to the point) is fine. There is a time and place for everything.
VK,
Don't want to be hard on you. You are being considerate. Understood Still, concerts are robbed of their time, spoiling the momentum of the concert, worrying folks about how they are going to get back home if it is past the hour when one can find a bus or an auto. If the purpose of the organizers is to present good concerts, attract more crowds, then why would they interrupt the flow of the concert and leave the audience restless?
You say you avoid the kind of musical events where there are long and preachy speeches. It is a waste of your time too. In India, it is the reverse--at least in my view. There are more speech-infected concerts there, and one without any or which take up just a couple minutes is hard to come by.
Another exception to words in a concert: when the performers come up with a spontaneous line of humor which is relevant to that moment in the concert...

[Nick H]

Oh dear, I really didn't mean to open that damn-ed temple-entry box of horrors!

[gn.sn42]

Horrors is right, and it's mind-boggling that inclusivity is invoked to defend discrimination. Thankfully, the world is (slowly) becoming a place where no one is denied entry on the basis of religion (or race, ethnicity, sex, or any other ground). Let's try to speed this along.

[srkris]

Horrors is right, and it's mind-boggling that inclusivity is invoked to defend discrimination.

Did I sound like I was defending anyone? What does it matter to me whether Yesudas enters the temple or whether the Guruvayur Devaswom allows anyone to enter and do anything within the temple premises? It does not affect me either way, and I am neither supporting the Devaswom nor criticizing it. Defending or not defending is not the point. I was talking about our funny notions of political correctness.

Discrimination is a fact of life. All the people at all times are getting discriminated in some form or the other. All of us discriminate on all things at all times without even thinking twice. But when it is a Yesudas or a Guruvayur, we adopt a holier than thou and start giving vent to politically correct stereotypes that we read in newspapers.

All that I am saying is that it does not become a greater sin just because the victim was Yesudas or the perpetrator was the Guruvayur temple.

Let me repeat - we all discriminate, hundreds of times every day. We also have funny ideas that certain forms of discrimination are bad. Who said the world is getting better? It is merely getting more and more funnier with our own illogical notions of good and bad. The sooner we realise we are not the rational beings we think we are, the better.

This is not a defence of the Guruvayur Devaswom.

As I said, everyone in the story are simply acting one more stupid than the other. What is Yesudas trying to prove by attempting to enter the Guruvayur Temple when it is clear they dont want to allow him in, and what is the Guruvayur Devaswom trying to prove by not allowing Yesudas of all people, as if they know the religions of all those that enter? And what do we want to gain brownie points for by acting politically correct criticizing an age old institution that is standing for its archaic notions of what is acceptable and not?

[arasi]

The recent 'flagrant' incident of the US flag in Allahabad to show protest against the detaining of super star Shahrukh Khan at Newark airport illustrates skewed up thinking of some. Old tamizh film song to the rescue: kuTRAlattilE iDi iDIccA kOambattUR viLakkaNaiyum! If it thunders in kUTRAlam, the power would go off in Coimbattur!
Hundreds of people get detained at airports. Reason? Security, in blazing letters. A namesake or educated or uneducated guesses by the airport personnel mostly causes this.
Besides politics, worshipping of movie stars is another preoccupation with some people. I don't think the same people mind much if they hear of ordinary citizens being detained for hours like a Bollywood hero.
Another thing: music and politics don't mix!

[gn.sn42]

Did I sound like I was defending anyone?

Yes, you did. Glad to hear you're not.

music and politics don't mix!

Except they always have. This forum celebrates the liberation songs of Bharati, for example, as well as the musicians who performed them. Likewise, music has been central to many political movements (South Africa comes to mind) and a lot of contemporary music is influenced by and takes a stance on political events.

[arasi]

gn.sn,
I did not mean national fervor and noble goals. I meant 'political' in the negative and destructive elements of political thought (or the lack of it), and blind faith.
nenjil uramum inRi, nErmai tiRamum illA political figures everywhere in the world and those who follow them--SeyvadaRyAr...Those politicians everywhere who are neither upright nor have integrity and those who follow them like sheep...