Prof.Sambandhamoorthy and venakatamakhi melakarta scheme

viggop · Post by **viggop** » 02 Jun 2005, 21:17

Hi friends
I read that Sri.Sambandhamoorthy was not unhappy with venkatamakhi's melakartha scheme and wanted to change it.He was supported by Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer and Semmangudi.
But MA rejected this.
Is this information true? can anyone give more facts on this

viggop · Post by **viggop** » 03 Jun 2005, 11:10

The person is TS.Sambandamoorthy.I do not know who he is but i read it in some website about this.Is this true?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 03 Jun 2005, 19:48

The person is TS.Sambandamoorthy.I do not know who he is but i read it in some website about this.Is this true?

I dont know about the precise details but can take a guess. This most probably has to do with the "elevation" of vivadhi swaras to the same status as non-vivadhi swaras thus resulting in 72 melakartas. Many people felt (and probably feel) that just because some prominent ragas (nattai, varali) used the vivadi swaras, didnt justify making them into valid swarasthanams on equal status to the non-vivadi ones (i.e. perhaps they can be treated as exceptions and special cases?)

To reiterate, this is just my guess.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 03 Jun 2005, 19:49

The person is TS.Sambandamoorthy.I do not know who he is but i read it in some website about this.Is this true?

I dont know about the precise details but can take a guess. This most probably has to do with the "elevation" of vivadhi swaras to the same status as non-vivadhi swaras thus resulting in 72 melakartas. Many people felt (and probably feel) that just because some prominent ragas (nattai, varali) used the vivadi swaras, didnt justify making them into valid swarasthanams on equal status to the non-vivadi ones (i.e. perhaps they can be treated as exceptions and special cases?)

To reiterate, this is just my guess.

Arun

sangur · Post by **sangur** » 07 Jun 2005, 20:56

The scheme of 5184 melas is proposed by Prof. P.Sambamoorthy. Of the 5184 melas, 72 are the melas of the Venkitamakhi Scheme (VS). The 5184 melas are as follows:

1. Arohanam of VS-Mela-1 i.e. Kanakangi
Avarohanam of VS-Mela-1

2. Arohanam of VS-Mela-1
Avarohanam of VS-Mela-2 i.e. Ratnangi
......
......
72. Arohanam of VS-Mela-1
Avarohanam of VS-Mela-72 i.e. Rasikapriya

73. Arohanam of VS-Mela-2
Avarohanam of VS-Mela-1
.....
.....

There are 72x72=5184 melas.
--------------------------------
Source: From the book Ragas in Carnatic Music by Dr.S.Bhagyalekshmi

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jul 2009, 02:25

Has this concept of 5184 melas been implemented by someone as yet?
By that I mean: are there any compositions and has anyone sung these 'ragas' that mix the aro-ava of the 72 classical mela-ragas as mentioned above?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jul 2009, 02:36

Some of the bAshAnga ragams can be considered to come from this bigger mela set or can be considered to be a janyAs of those melas.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Jul 2009, 04:05

Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer died in 1893 or 1894. Prof. Sambamoorthy was born around 1900. So he could not have "supported" the latter.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jul 2009, 13:52

I think the original poster was referring to Sambandhamoorthy, not Sambamoorthy. Not sure who the former is.
My question was more around the 5182 'mela' ragas as mentioned by sangur.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Jul 2009, 14:05

ragam-talam
Thanks for pointing out that stupidity. Turns out I have been thinking about a well-known but "sambandhame illada moorthy"

.
Did anyone else let their reading skill betray them too ?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jul 2009, 19:00

Some of the bAshAnga ragams can be considered to come from this bigger mela set or can be considered to be a janyAs of those melas.

I suppose Mohanakalyani would be an example - although Mohanam is not a sampoorna ragam?

Thinking this thru...using melas 28 & 29:
Imagine aro - Harikambodhi, avaro - Sankarabharanam, we will have Hari-bharanam
and vice versa would be Sankara-kambodhi!

Has anyone tried something like this?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:24

When our musicians can do an order of magnitude more awesome things, that should be child's play. So the crucial question to ask is, where do musical aesthetics and raga bhava come from. It is not from the scales. So mohana kalyani has established itself as a raga with certain identify but not a raga based on the scale: Aro 29 and ava 65.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:37

I repeat your pertinent question. 'Where do musical aesthetics and rAga bhAvam come from?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 04 Jul 2009, 01:07

Good question. But we wouldn't know if these raga combos have aesthetics/bhavam until someone sings them, yes?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2009, 02:42

Or, in some cases, someone does sing them and kill them!

For someone like me who is not well trained in music, it is the feel of a rAgam--the impact of it on me over the years, the discovery of its unknown territories of which I get glimpses of, as I hear a rAgam being explored. The moments of such discoveries make a particular rAgam endearing to me. And it goes on--with another rAgam and another. Is it all about discovery then? No. The sAhityam and the way it is presented is what sustains it.
I am not looking for novelty in a performance. I am looking for a guide who would make her experience of wonder mine too, and create a mood when rAgam, tALam, mELakartA and kaNakku fade away--at least for the time being. It is a space where music reigns, shedding all its particulars.
Does it happen often? No

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 04 Jul 2009, 04:58

It has to be 'MUSIC TO YOUR EARS'.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2009, 08:39

Punarvasu,
And the soul, whatever it is

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 04 Jul 2009, 10:02

arasi wrote:I repeat your pertinent question. 'Where do musical aesthetics and rAga bhAvam come from?

Bhairavi would be a mELa in this scheme..

North Indian classical music constantly spawns such dual identity rAgas.. basant-bhairav, basant-bahAr come to mind..

for the effective presentation of such combinations of two heptatonics in the carnatic mode, it may be necessary to preface the song/pallavi with a leisurely, elaborate alApana, with more couka kAla singing, than madhyamakAla singing; to establish whatever rAgaswarUpa is possible..

even swarakalpana will be better if more of viLamba-kala avartas are sung...

By singing an expansive AlApana it is possible to establish the trans-scale raga-swarupa of the(se) novel raga(s)... there is a lot of beauty to be found in the M1-p-M2, g2-m1-g3, d1-p-d2 phrases..

A sensitive, aesthete should be able to sing such a rAga for a while, and do a fair job of it...