Arangetram fee in USA - $40,000?

manikand28 · Post by **manikand28** » 29 Mar 2008, 18:56

I am thinking of enrolling my daughter to Shri Krupa Dance Foundation, Santa Clara, California, USA run by Guru Vishal Ramani and my friend told me the cost of performing arangetram this year in this school is US $40,000 (In India rupees now16 L). He is in a sticker shock now. I am also surprised this is on a high side and I was wondering from other fellow rasikas what are the costs in other bay area teachers like Abhinaya (Mythili Kumar), Suganda Sreenath or Indumathy Ganesh. Also I am interested cost in other areas in US and in India. The teachers are not forthcoming when we meet them first, and I feel it is like a trap where you study the whole course and realise the fees at end.

Of course I know, we should not think of arangetram while joining, but on all practical purposes I want to do proper research. Also the cost may depend on how lavish or simple one may organize. Let's say a reasonable cost. Maybe I am totally out of touch and $40,000 is common these days. But for me this looks like a huge deal.

Rasikas, please enlighten me!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:29

Manikand,

That may the 'coastal' rates! You should find out what the sticker price includes and what the MSRP for the bare bones are.

It may include trips to India to buy costumes, jewelry, as well as the cost of transporting family members to the event, and 'feeding' the attendees. These are all extra frills! For an arangETram, the devil as they say is not just in the details, but actually in the frills!

I guess, if you want the true price, you should include the gurudakshiNa/fees that are paid for classes over the 5 to 7-year period that it takes to train someone (And overall, that is a rather small amount). To this you add the actual cost of the arangETram specific training (including the cost of getting the musicians to record the music for the chosen pieces for practice during the last year. Actually, depending on the school and teacher, most of the girls practice with the live troupe for 1-3 months prior to the arangETram, and of course their fees and boarding charges (if they are from out of town) have to be borne. The invitations have to be printed, prior to which, the dancer+/-teacher get their pictures taken professionally. And then, the hall, the decorations (there are arangETram planners who will decorate the hall for you, for a fee of course) will cost some more. Most parents hire the best professional photographer in town for still photography, and a videographer who will provide them with so many copies of the performance on DVD that even relatives in remote corners of India where electricity is a dream can be proud owners of one. It has also become practice to give gift bags/goody bags to the teacher(s), and everyone who 'speaks' on the occasion.

So, as you can see, the expenses do add up. Or, as my mother would say, 'SunDakkAi kAl paNam, Sumai kUli mukkAl paNam'!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:51

Ravi,
No one can say it as you can! Now, if you start charging people for the
expertise with which you counsel, their expenses would increase!
But your mother said it in one line. SuNdakkA kAl paNam--it is the Sumai kUli. So too with weddings and so on...

While you pay a quarter for the SuNdai (pickling berries), the delivery charges for them add up to 75 cents!

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 30 Mar 2008, 03:21

$40,000! The most I've heard is 20-25k here on the east coast. I hate that arangetrams are now lavish affairs, but there are ways to cut down on costs and still have some of the frills (e.g., printing the invitations and programs in India, getting friends and family to do decorations, having a sponsoring organization).

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 30 Mar 2008, 03:33

It is all about how much you want publicity and acceptance for your child. You treat it as investment on your children and then watch them perform auraciously or let you child do her own arangetram at her own expense once she is able to make her own earnings.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 30 Mar 2008, 04:40

I have heard of the budget for an arengetram in Australia being $A70,000 so I am not surpirsed at the $40,000 tag.

Adding to rshankar's comments, some of the big budget items could include hall booking (upto $15,000), airfares and visa costs for 5 artistes ($10,000), artist and guru dakshinai, costumes and jewellery, full colour brochure printing, video, photography and audio costs, stage decoration, air-travel for overseas relatives, catering and gifts for 1000 guests.

You can certainly reduce the costs by choosing cheaper auditoriums, modest costumes, local aristes, etc. Some dance teachers are insistent on using artistes from India and the top-notch auditoriums.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Mar 2008, 07:23

Mohan,
Wow! Gifts to all the guests? I didn't know about that!

chitrashankar · Post by **chitrashankar** » 30 Mar 2008, 11:54

Manikand,

I know that some US-based students learn for a few years in the USA, then come to India and continue with a different guru for 7-10 months, and do the arangetram in India, saving the costs on the orchestra, airfare, visas, hall rent (Chennai's Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan's hall is Rs.15000 per 3 hours, I think) and everything else. So, instead of spending $40000, you will end up spending 5 times less.

And, mind you, if your child's resume states that she did her arangetram in Chennai, wouldn't it sound much more respectable than an arangetram somewhere in LA?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 30 Mar 2008, 14:01

Arasi - not a big gift, but something like a small idol or trinket, similar to what you may get from a wedding.

chitra - the trend is to do the arengetram in the famly's city of residence so they can demonstrate the feat to all their friends.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:27

I checked with a friend of mine. He spent around $3,500 three years back for his daughter's arangetram in Texas. ( No live orchestra ). So it is possible to conduct the arangetram at around that price.

There are some dance schools which conduct arangetram for 10 students or so during the summer. They can then bring in a couple of artists from India . The cost associated with such live orchestra is shared by the 10 students's parents, so it does not add too much to the total cost.

u.vikram · Post by **u.vikram** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:41

Staging Arangetram in the US is a very remunerative profession. There are teachers here on the east coast that regularly stage 3-4 Arangetrams every year irrespective of the quality of the student. These events cost the parents a cool $20 - $30 k. The "Gurus" make a neat $ 20 - $ 30 per annum. Along with the event goes the bountiful eugolizing /gifting etc...What is really appalling is the fact that some teachers make real merry at the expense of these ignorant parents.
There are also teachers who really do not worry about " formal arangetram" and their students are possibly more accomplished and knowledgeable than the ones who have completed and are able to present themselves very competently both here and in India. These are teachers that seriously believe that Arangetram is the beginning of the journey.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 31 Mar 2008, 01:11

There are some dance schools who have dance troupes of their own and they are almost professional dance groups. They go around the country and perform as a group. With such schools, you get to perform with the group only after the Arangetram (and the dancers get paid some renumeration ). Though it is not a dance career for the students, it atleast keeps them in the dance!!

From a few people I talked to, the schedule is worked out years in advance so that they arangetram happens during the summer of their high school graduation or a year earlier. This has all sorts of sundry benefits outside of the dance, like school admissions, scholarships etc. I do not have any first hand information to corroborate this, so others please chip in.

manikand28 · Post by **manikand28** » 31 Mar 2008, 02:15

Thanks for the responses. I did some research on this school and found they do 10-12 arangetrams per year and bring artists from India. (Madhurai R Muralidharan for nattuvangam and other artists). Thery stay in US for 3 months and perform the 12 arangetrams. So the school gets 12 *40k = 480k or half million dollars a year. They rent a hall and I think teacher just flat out asks this rate. I think doing arangetram in Chennai is far more reasonable if we decide to do. (especially all our relatives are in Chennai). Invitations and brochures are all printed in Chennai only, the teacher goes and takes care of it.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 31 Mar 2008, 10:50

What Vasanthakokilam said about dance schools bringing an orchestra for several arangetrams at a time applies to my own arangetram. In fact, we got the orchestra from another dance school entirely who essentially rented out their orchestra to others. A lot cheaper than getting your own, but still not cheap. However, IMO, a good live orchestra (as opposed to recorded music) is a must.

Manikand, I know of a lot of U.S. families who have done arangetrams in India, but it's nice when the non-Indian public here gets to see it, like classmates of the dancer, colleagues of the parents, etc...

ashoksubra · Post by **ashoksubra** » 08 May 2008, 19:33

Hi Friends,

Last night I had posted this in another thread about Dance Class Fee. It should have been here..!

This thread has been brought to my notice by one of the board members of Shrikrupa.

I am the Chairman of the Shrikrupa Foundation, a 501 (C) non profit foundation and I want to set the matters straight! It is better to know the facts direct from us instead of surmising, guessing and having a discussion based on some hearsay. The amount quoted here is somebody's wild imagination is NOT what the truth is. 400K$ ehh..? WOW!

Let me give an approximate break down for you to figure.

(1) The fee for the whole year of training with individual classes, special sessions, specially chosen and choregraphed items is more like 1/10th of the fee quoted here.
(2) The cost of bringing artists is again close 1/10th of the quote figure. These are the two so called high ticket items. In fact, the 2nd cost is almost the same when you engage local artists too per program. The parents want to do for the obvious benefit of more practice time with visiting artists.

The frills of an arangetram which in recent years has become more like big family occassion for most parents, include catered dinner for friends and family after the program, invitations, photo shoots, dresses for the entire family (may be!) can escalate the overall cost to such an amount for some parents who want to do it that way. For most parents, the overall cost may be more like 1/4th of the cost cited, including theaters.

Frills are neither mandated by Shrikrupa nor hinted to the parents.

I suggest that the people interested should check with the parents of arangetram students and know the facts.

You''re most welcome to write to me @ [email protected], should you need accurate information.

Thanks
Ashok Subramaniam:|

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 09 May 2008, 01:53

ashoksubra wrote:The amount quoted here is somebody's wild imagination is NOT what the truth is. 400K$ ehh..? WOW!
...
(1) The fee for the whole year of training with individual classes, special sessions, specially chosen and choregraphed items is more like 1/10th of the fee quoted here.
(2) The cost of bringing artists is again close 1/10th of the quote figure.

By my calculation, 1/10th of $400K equals $40K, which is the figure the original poster mentioned.

Adidaivam · Post by **Adidaivam** » 09 May 2008, 02:35

Maximum you can spent $5000 for an arangetram other money you spend is a waster. this is my opinion.. $40K is way too much.. so the teacher or school is money minded rather than the art form. Greed! that is the name for it.

ashoksubra · Post by **ashoksubra** » 09 May 2008, 02:51

OK.. The mistake is mine. I was quoting from the figure per family and was "Wow"ing the grand 400K total the person arrived. I meant close to 1/10th of 40K friend NOT 400K.

skdc_parent · Post by **skdc_parent** » 09 May 2008, 03:14

I am an Arangetram parent from Shri Krupa Dance Company and would like to give my perspective to this thread. I am sure the information being discussed here has probably taken a different form passing on from one person to the other. Shri Krupa Dance Company does not mandate any costs with respect to the Arangetram. The teacher training fee (Guru Dakshina) is nominal and nowhere close to the phenominal figure mentioned here. The costs for the live musicians is a shared expense amongst all parents doing Arangetram that specific year. The funds are managed completely by the Arangetram families with a self-appointed treasurer and has nothing to do with the teacher.
Besides the above 2 costs(as clarified by ashoksubra), the rest of the costs are personal expenses that you would want to incur for your child's event, almost like planning any event - child's first birthday party or a wedding - whatever you want it to be like.
That has no bearing on the school or the teacher. I am also guessing that the extent of this personal expenditure would be same, irrespective of the teacher and school. What any particular family spends is subjective and needs to be put into perspective.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 May 2008, 17:10

Very interesting contributions from Ashoksubra and skdc_parent, and they do, indeed, put things in perspective.

I think you might be horrified to know of the sums spent on arangetrams in London! I don't think $40,000 would be considered excessive there!

There are many reasons for this, but a very large part of it is the extent to which the family sees it as a social and international family occasion, and the incidental expenses for hall, dress, decoration, food, etc are very high; perhaps as much as might be spent on a wedding.

chitrashankar · Post by **chitrashankar** » 11 May 2008, 00:06

skdc_parent wrote:The funds are managed completely by the Arangetram families with a self-appointed treasurer and has nothing to do with the teacher.

???

Who are "the Arangetram families"? Are you telling us that every time there is a new arangetram, this new "arangetram family" suddenly assumes handling all the cash of Shri Krupa Dance Company???

I want to be a treasurer there!

What is the percentage of the black (unaccounted) cash? I heard, in Chennai, only 5% of all (real) expenses are ever mentioned on paper. What teacher wants to pay personal income tax???

Gurukrupa · Post by **Gurukrupa** » 11 May 2008, 02:07

I am surprised to read chitrashankar's comments. As a parent who is performing the arangetram of my kid, I can spend my post-tax money in any way I want and am not concerned how SKDC, the teacher or others handle their private taxes. Having said that, let me clarify the money issues raised here.

The parents who are performing the arangetram of their kids in a season, (Arangetram Families), pool funds and defray the common costs incurred on artists' fees and their living expenses. Since some of the expenses are incurred outside the US, the budget for #2 below is subject to change due to exchange rate fluctuations. The budget and the actuals are managed collectively by Arangetram Families. One of the parents is appointed treasurer to collect money and defray the expenses.
The costs of theater rent, printing invitations and photography, serving food to those who attend the arangetram etc., are entirely borne by the respective parents and are all discretionary in nature - item # 3 below.

Continuing Ashok's example the estimated costs are:
1 Teacher fees - $4000 - quoted by Ashok.
2 Artists' expenses - $4000 - quoted by Ashok
(Collected and defrayed by the Arangetram Families) - clarification to skdc_parent's message
3 Parent's Discretionary Expenses - $20000 (includes all costs stated above and discretionary gifts to teacher and artists)

In my view, the whole project or mission is a unique experience for the child and the parents and cannot be reduced to a pure cost-comparison similar to obtaining three different quotes and picking the lowest.

Abhinayasundari · Post by **Abhinayasundari** » 11 May 2008, 06:03

It looks like this thread has been started with half knowledge and lack of information.

Firstly it is too early to think about Arangetram when you register your child...Any form of art takes it own time to be learnt and we have to pay the price(Guru Dakshina) wherever we are.....
Its not a window shopping comparison .......

Secondly it depends on how lavishly one can spend on an event..It can be conducted in a temple,or in a theatre or in a convention centre and how GRAND you want to conduct.

Last not the least no parent should wonder/worry about what a dance school/teacher is making.
IT IS WHAT VALUE OUR CHILDREN ARE LEARNING FROM ANY GURU AND THE PRICE WE PAY FOR LEARNING THE ART FORM.

ashoksubra · Post by **ashoksubra** » 11 May 2008, 19:47

Well, it is a demorcratic forum and democracy has it own embedded craziness sometimes. Chithra Shankar and others like him/her are entitled to their beliefs and opinions. All I would say is If people want to find information to know the real truth they would do their research properly instead of ind"epporul yaar yaar vaai ketpinum apporul meipporul kaanbadarivu". ulging in sinister remarks and all knowing attitude. Who knows whose jealous factor works overtime! Anyways, enough said on this topic. I would rather not engage in anymore in this kind of exhanges..

Thanks for likes and otherwise.

Ashok subramaniam

ramapati · Post by **ramapati** » 25 Nov 2008, 13:45

I have absolutely no clue about the expenses for conducting Arangetram. However, with my experience of doing it for my daughter in December, 2006 in New Delhi, India, I can say that the expenses would range, here in Delhi, from Rs.1,00,000/- to Rs.1,50,000/- for conducting a decent Arangetram. The expenses include for Guru Dakshina (including a silk Saree), orchestra (including rehearsals), Printing and stationery, Auditorium, Transport, Jewelery & Costume, Make-Up, Photography & Videography, decoration, refreshments.

ramapati · Post by **ramapati** » 25 Nov 2008, 13:46

Ooops. In the first sentence, what I meant was that I'd no clue about the expenses in USA.

foreigndesi · Post by **foreigndesi** » 16 Jun 2009, 01:19

To the people who didn't have a live orchestra, a live orchestra is infact KEY. When one can dance along with a live orchestra, one really understands how to be a dancer, and adjust to that. It is possible to find local Artists though, it might require some research but it is possible.

Arangetrams (Including classes) at my school are about $15000 Canadian. We have live music with local artists, two costumes only, modest decorations, light snacks (no meals or gifts, the main focus is the dancing!), and an evening of dancing. One thing that we're not stingy about is classes, at the end of the day you want the dancing to be the best, and everything is secondary.

At our school brochures/ printed invitations are optional, so there are opportunties to make it less. Maybe you should consider all the expenses of your friend, very few things are necessary (Sometimes a good auditorium is a good investment because it really sets the professional ambience for the show)

pradina · Post by **pradina** » 16 Jun 2009, 20:19

I did my arangetram recently in VA. I found a theater at a local community center. Other than my class fees, all costs (including live orchestra, transportation, two non-silk costumes, theater rental, brochures, invitations, other material printing, intermission snacks) came to about $5000.

Most of the invitations were sent as evites. I designed my invitations (print & evite), programme sheet & other publicity material. My friends designed my brochure. So only printing costs were involved. Most of the printing was done in India, which also helps. We did the photo session at home and I edited my pictures to studio-quality. Photoshop rules! I had family members do the video recording.

All in all, the only major financial investments were classes & orchestra. Good to have time and some good friends/family on your side as well. All else is entirely scaleable.

nthek · Post by **nthek** » 01 Jul 2009, 10:39

There are other teachers in the Bay Area including Sundara Swaminathan, Savitha Sastry and Katherine Kunjiraman who are all excellent dancers and teachers. I have worked closely with two of these teachers and they are very understanding in each individual students financial situation in conducting an arangetram.

I suggest looking at the india currents and attending different arangetrams and productions by these teachers to assess the quality of the students and the grandeur of the programs.

All the best!!
nthek

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Jul 2009, 21:11

Pradina,
I loved your post. What a smart person you are--and hopefully a trend-setter too! Just yesterday, a friend was lamenting about how some young women, when it comes to their weddings (arangETRams too, I guess) want to go the nine yards and more, trying to keep up with the Joneses. While we vidESi parents and grandparents love to see our children imbibe the values of both cultures, there is a trend where they are influenced by the 'I want pomp and circumstances' elements from both!
Of course, some parents go along with it too, or worse, go for it even if the children are not for it. Given the economic times, offsprings AND parents can now start to think anew and be practical without sacrificing the aesthetic side of the occasion.
Your post is a good example. Intelligent thinking and planning has gone into it...
Wishing you many years of enjoyment from dancing...

pradina · Post by **pradina** » 03 Jul 2009, 00:57

Arasi,

Thank you. I'm no trendsetter by any means. My point was simple - keep the focus on dance. I just refused to follow the norm. If something didn't make sense to me, I didn't do it (in some instances, tried not to). It was probably to easier to make my choices as I was the organizer too. Making the choices was easy, but execution was something else altogether. Any time I digressed, my better half was sure to give me a little nudge

Unfortunately, the imbibing of culture amongst dEsis/vidEsis is applied only superficially. There is so much fuss about the costume(s), photos/video, theater, food, etc., etc. Art, unfortunately, is lost amidst all this. That the arangetram is considered a graduation... well, any dancer worth his/her salt knows how preposterous that is.

It was an uphill battle at times. You will not believe some of the suggestions from random sources. But, I think I got my way through most of it.

Most of all, I enjoyed it.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jul 2009, 01:51

Pradina: The big expense you wisely saved is on that dinner. Last summer, my friend spent $18 a plate for dinner for his daughter's arangetram. 1000 people showed up!

BTW, the original poster in this thread mentioned that the dance school wanted that much money just for the arangetram which included the orchestra, teacher's special fees and the special two weeks of training. Does your $5000 include those arangetram-specific teacher/dance school related expenses?

pradina · Post by **pradina** » 03 Jul 2009, 03:30

pradina wrote:Other than my class fees, all costs (including live orchestra, transportation, two non-silk costumes, theater rental, brochures, invitations, other material printing, intermission snacks) came to about $5000.

My earlier quote (above) should be "Including classes, all costs came to about $5000"

Vasanthakokilam, you are spot on. I avoided the whole dinner scenario. Only about 20-25 ppl for dinner, including guru's family, musicians, family, & close friends. That cost has also been included above.

The event, however, was open to all. It was between 4 and 6:30 pm, so people could make their own dinner plans after the show. Like attending a typical kutcheri.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jul 2009, 04:44

Pradina,
I would imagine the guests were offered some light refreshment.

VK,
From what I hear, your friend did not get hit that badly when it came to dinner expenses!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Jul 2009, 04:56

pradina wisely and smartly avoided the unnessasary and still accomplished what she set out.

pradina · Post by **pradina** » 03 Jul 2009, 06:07

arasi wrote:Pradina,
I would imagine the guests were offered some light refreshment.

Single-serve packs of chips & cookies, and couple varieties of soda.

sudharani · Post by **sudharani** » 03 Jul 2009, 15:22

Those dance students who pay $1500 for 10 days of Dhananjayans' Yogaville camp, say that the $40000 for arangetram looks cheap.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jul 2009, 22:21

I do not get it. Assuming 6 hour days with the camp, that comes to $25 an hour. High but not outrageous. Let us assume the dance school spends 120 hours of special training in the 3 weeks before the arangetram, that should be only $3000. Let us assume two people are involved. That is $6000.00. Add another $2000 as special guru fees for arangetram, I do not see more than $8000 to the dance school. And I think I am being very generous in my calculations.

sudharani · Post by **sudharani** » 03 Jul 2009, 22:38

vasanthakokilam wrote: Assuming 6 hour days with the camp, that comes to $25 an hour. High but not outrageous.

You know how many students there are in one group? Not many gurus can make $30,000 in 10 days, or can spend $1,000,000 to set up a dance school in a small village in the jungles.

vasanthakokilam wrote: Let us assume the dance school spends 120 hours of special training in the 3 weeks before the arangetram,

I don't get it. The 'special training' does not happen in a group of 20, does it? It's one-to-one, and if it is done in just 3 weeks before the arangetram, such is the outcome: very poor.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jul 2009, 01:01

Sudharani: BTW, I was not questioning your assessment but the impression of someone else who you quoted, in bringing in Dhananjayans' fees and the $40000 for the arangetram. Hence my side by side comparison in trying to see where the $40000 comes from. I agree those two are different things. If it is a rhetorical comment, that is perfectly fine.

I do not have any issues with Dhananjayans' making $30000 in 10 days. Good for them, sounds like the profession many people dream of. That is the way to do it, it does not feel like each student is paying a lot but the economy of scale lets them make decent money. That is the way business is done. That is why these summer CM workshops are a great money making opportunity for artists.