I already asked this question in the BIG 6 thread but nobody answered!
What is the difference between:
Kathakalakshepam
Harikatha
Sangeetha Upanyasam
Namasankeerthanam
Bhajanai??
Difference between these??
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jayanthisundar2k
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 05 Dec 2007, 11:34
Any story with Sangeetabhinaya, coupled with anecdotes is called Kathakalakshepa.
Harikatha (lit. "stories of the Lord"), otherwise called Katha Kalakshepa is a form of Hindu religious discourse in which the story teller explores a religious theme, usually the life of a saint or a story from an Indian epic.
Also see http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... as-p3.html
Also read this below article in Hindu:
Take for instance, Visaka Hari, who is described as a Harikatha exponent. Sure enough her performances have all the features of the Harikatha, namely story telling, music, quotations from scriptures, epics and legends, a stress on morals and spiritualism, shades of drama and humour and anything else that would fit in. Her captivating voice and music of a high order mesmerise the crowd, while her fluent story-telling rivets the attention of the audience.
Critics find her a rookie in need of erudition, experience and disciplined exposition. They frown upon her rendition of songs in full every few minutes, with all the accoutrement of a music concert. But the audience laps it all up and asks for more.
Would it help to rename her presentations as a Geetha Katha or Sangeetha Katha or Sangeetha Upanyasam? If anything, it would place the music on par with the story telling, as she is basically a full-fledged concert musician striking out a new path as a story teller.
Namasankeerthanam" is the right path for salvation.
Seshagopalan traced the origin of Nama Sankeerthanam cult from Krishna Chaitanya in Bengal, Meera Bai, Sundar Kabir Das in North India, Haridasa of Karnataka, Nayanmars and Alwars in the South.
Bhajan sampradaya Paddhathi was established in South by Bhodendra (peetadhipathi of Kanchi Sankara Mutt) Sridhara Swami and Marudanallur Sadguru Swamigal.
It has spread to the nook and corner of the State with many groups singing the Namavali. Pudukkottai Gopala Krishna Bhagavathar, Gnananandagiri of Tapovanam, and his disciple Guru Haridasgiri are mainly responsible for maintaining the Bhakthi cult through the Bhajana sampradaya.
Harikatha (lit. "stories of the Lord"), otherwise called Katha Kalakshepa is a form of Hindu religious discourse in which the story teller explores a religious theme, usually the life of a saint or a story from an Indian epic.
Also see http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... as-p3.html
Also read this below article in Hindu:
Take for instance, Visaka Hari, who is described as a Harikatha exponent. Sure enough her performances have all the features of the Harikatha, namely story telling, music, quotations from scriptures, epics and legends, a stress on morals and spiritualism, shades of drama and humour and anything else that would fit in. Her captivating voice and music of a high order mesmerise the crowd, while her fluent story-telling rivets the attention of the audience.
Critics find her a rookie in need of erudition, experience and disciplined exposition. They frown upon her rendition of songs in full every few minutes, with all the accoutrement of a music concert. But the audience laps it all up and asks for more.
Would it help to rename her presentations as a Geetha Katha or Sangeetha Katha or Sangeetha Upanyasam? If anything, it would place the music on par with the story telling, as she is basically a full-fledged concert musician striking out a new path as a story teller.
Namasankeerthanam" is the right path for salvation.
Seshagopalan traced the origin of Nama Sankeerthanam cult from Krishna Chaitanya in Bengal, Meera Bai, Sundar Kabir Das in North India, Haridasa of Karnataka, Nayanmars and Alwars in the South.
Bhajan sampradaya Paddhathi was established in South by Bhodendra (peetadhipathi of Kanchi Sankara Mutt) Sridhara Swami and Marudanallur Sadguru Swamigal.
It has spread to the nook and corner of the State with many groups singing the Namavali. Pudukkottai Gopala Krishna Bhagavathar, Gnananandagiri of Tapovanam, and his disciple Guru Haridasgiri are mainly responsible for maintaining the Bhakthi cult through the Bhajana sampradaya.
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srinivasrgvn
- Posts: 1013
- Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 07:46
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rajeshnat
- Posts: 10123
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04
Here is my take after talking with few of them
Kathakalakshepam or Harikatha :
They are both the same different names I guess. There is always 50 50 of music and discourse.
Namasankeerthanam:
In namasankeerthanam, to the best of my knowledge there is no discourse only music
Bhajanai??:
colloqial term I guess can apply to perhaps anything other a pure carnatic concert. This term is like bAvam , each of us define what is conveniant
Sangeetha Upanyasam:
THis is where the shade of gray is maximum. How different is this from harikatha , i dont know and I dont get it . IIRC, this is get more music and less of discourse . I think smt visaka hari calls her more as a sangeetha upanyAsam artist then a harikatha artist .
Incidentally a good anecdote to share how confused I am with sangeetha upanyAsam vs harikatha . About 8 years before in an IT company that I was working , the company decided during march 2000 to come up with roles and responsibilities and decided to bifurcate two career paths , who else to handle than the HR(high risk department) . I got promoted as Technical Lead (Projects) and one of my friends got promoted as Project Lead (Technical).There was a nidhi chAla sukhamA difference between the two. With both of us not having any clue we approaced each our AVP. Conveniantly the AVP told there is a definite difference,you better approach the HR manager .
We went and asked this question ,obviously not telling there is difference in nidhi chAla , there was a 15 minute powerpoint enabled presentation , both our heads were not convinced. At the end the HR manager asked us Are you clear now, I said very clear , you are from today HR Manager (Technical Projects)
Kathakalakshepam or Harikatha :
They are both the same different names I guess. There is always 50 50 of music and discourse.
Namasankeerthanam:
In namasankeerthanam, to the best of my knowledge there is no discourse only music
Bhajanai??:
colloqial term I guess can apply to perhaps anything other a pure carnatic concert. This term is like bAvam , each of us define what is conveniant
Sangeetha Upanyasam:
THis is where the shade of gray is maximum. How different is this from harikatha , i dont know and I dont get it . IIRC, this is get more music and less of discourse . I think smt visaka hari calls her more as a sangeetha upanyAsam artist then a harikatha artist .
Incidentally a good anecdote to share how confused I am with sangeetha upanyAsam vs harikatha . About 8 years before in an IT company that I was working , the company decided during march 2000 to come up with roles and responsibilities and decided to bifurcate two career paths , who else to handle than the HR(high risk department) . I got promoted as Technical Lead (Projects) and one of my friends got promoted as Project Lead (Technical).There was a nidhi chAla sukhamA difference between the two. With both of us not having any clue we approaced each our AVP. Conveniantly the AVP told there is a definite difference,you better approach the HR manager .
We went and asked this question ,obviously not telling there is difference in nidhi chAla , there was a 15 minute powerpoint enabled presentation , both our heads were not convinced. At the end the HR manager asked us Are you clear now, I said very clear , you are from today HR Manager (Technical Projects)
Last edited by rajeshnat on 01 Mar 2009, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Always_Evolving
- Posts: 216
- Joined: 16 Oct 2007, 08:33
I have been picking my father's (M. Rammohan, grandson of Harikatha great of yester-year, Soolamangalam Vaidyanatha Bhagavatar) brain on this one. So here's my summary of what he said.
1. Kathakalakshepam: General term, now out of vogue. Elaborate story-telling (Lit: to pass the time).
2. Upanyasam: A discourse on a religious or mythological theme. The performers varied in their degree of erudition. Usually recited shlokas during the discourse, but did NOT set them to rAgas.
e.g. Anantharama Dikshitar, Sundar Kumar.
Tamil literary discourses were peformed by Kripananda Variar.
3. Sangeetha Upanyasam: Musical discourse on a religious theme, or a mythological story. Performed sitting, with accompaniments, and interspersed with snatches of shlokas set to ragas, or kritis. Usually did not sing entire kritis, or include improvisational aspects of music. For instance did not perform much raga alapana, neraval and so on. Certainly no thani-avarthanams or kalpanaswaras
e.g. T S Balakrishna Shastrigal
4. HARIKATHA: An art-form that originated in Maharashtra and was brought to South India during the rule of the Maratha kings in Tanjore. A story telling from the bhagavatam etc. and originally on themes relating to Hari (Vishnu), bhakti, etc. A performance would begin with a sequence known as 'panchapathi' -- songs on 5 deities starting with Vinayaka. The great exponents wrote Nirupanas -- short scripts around specific sub-plots. It included certain compositional types called sAki, Ovi, Dandi (I don't know what these are). Also borrowed music from the Bhakti saints. They were expounded standing up, the performers used the 'chiplA kattai' for talam, were accompanied by harmonium / percussion. Exclusively used "usutthAlam" -- a short-hand for implying certain common rhythmic cycles that does not use proper finger-counting.
Krishna Bhagavatar, a South Indian was inspired by this art-form and adapted it expertly to new themes. Slowly the use of Thyagaraja kritis etc. came into vogue. Other preformers including Soolamangalam Vaidyanatha Bhagavatar performed Harikatha even on purely south-Indian themes such as "63 Nayanmar charitram".
Harikatha performers were erudite in multiple languages, had extensive knowledge of the puranas, mythology, bhakti traditions and musical background. Soolamangalam Bhagavatar, though a Tamilian, performed in the traditional style, and had his Marathi nirupanas scripted by Saraba Shastrigal the great flautist. Later other performers of Harikatha dropped the practice of including marathi songs and styles.
Contemporary harikata performers: Tanjore Kamala Murthy (a disciple of Annaswamy Bhagavatar, she performs more in the traditional mould) and Kalyanapuram Aravamudachariar (who followed the footsteps of Embar Vijayaraghavachariar who did not use the marathi traditions)
5. NAMASANKEERTHANAM: afaik namasankeerthanam is the same as bhajanai. They both refer to group singing of devotional songs. Repetition of the NAME of the lord, in groups . Many different traditions (or lack thereof!) exist in Bhajan.
One traditional paddhathi was published in a book (not "established") by Pudukottai Gopalakrishna Bhagavatar which started with a sequence known as tOdayamangalam, followed by Guru kritis , and continued with songs of the great Bhakti saints -- Narayanatheertha, Jayadeva, Meerabai, Tukaram etc. This is called Sampradaya bhajanai.
In recent years Swami Haridos Giri revived the popularity of Namasankeerthanam and today another crowd-puller is Udayalur Kalyanaraman who has a profound level of musical gnyanam.
1. Kathakalakshepam: General term, now out of vogue. Elaborate story-telling (Lit: to pass the time).
2. Upanyasam: A discourse on a religious or mythological theme. The performers varied in their degree of erudition. Usually recited shlokas during the discourse, but did NOT set them to rAgas.
e.g. Anantharama Dikshitar, Sundar Kumar.
Tamil literary discourses were peformed by Kripananda Variar.
3. Sangeetha Upanyasam: Musical discourse on a religious theme, or a mythological story. Performed sitting, with accompaniments, and interspersed with snatches of shlokas set to ragas, or kritis. Usually did not sing entire kritis, or include improvisational aspects of music. For instance did not perform much raga alapana, neraval and so on. Certainly no thani-avarthanams or kalpanaswaras
e.g. T S Balakrishna Shastrigal
4. HARIKATHA: An art-form that originated in Maharashtra and was brought to South India during the rule of the Maratha kings in Tanjore. A story telling from the bhagavatam etc. and originally on themes relating to Hari (Vishnu), bhakti, etc. A performance would begin with a sequence known as 'panchapathi' -- songs on 5 deities starting with Vinayaka. The great exponents wrote Nirupanas -- short scripts around specific sub-plots. It included certain compositional types called sAki, Ovi, Dandi (I don't know what these are). Also borrowed music from the Bhakti saints. They were expounded standing up, the performers used the 'chiplA kattai' for talam, were accompanied by harmonium / percussion. Exclusively used "usutthAlam" -- a short-hand for implying certain common rhythmic cycles that does not use proper finger-counting.
Krishna Bhagavatar, a South Indian was inspired by this art-form and adapted it expertly to new themes. Slowly the use of Thyagaraja kritis etc. came into vogue. Other preformers including Soolamangalam Vaidyanatha Bhagavatar performed Harikatha even on purely south-Indian themes such as "63 Nayanmar charitram".
Harikatha performers were erudite in multiple languages, had extensive knowledge of the puranas, mythology, bhakti traditions and musical background. Soolamangalam Bhagavatar, though a Tamilian, performed in the traditional style, and had his Marathi nirupanas scripted by Saraba Shastrigal the great flautist. Later other performers of Harikatha dropped the practice of including marathi songs and styles.
Contemporary harikata performers: Tanjore Kamala Murthy (a disciple of Annaswamy Bhagavatar, she performs more in the traditional mould) and Kalyanapuram Aravamudachariar (who followed the footsteps of Embar Vijayaraghavachariar who did not use the marathi traditions)
5. NAMASANKEERTHANAM: afaik namasankeerthanam is the same as bhajanai. They both refer to group singing of devotional songs. Repetition of the NAME of the lord, in groups . Many different traditions (or lack thereof!) exist in Bhajan.
One traditional paddhathi was published in a book (not "established") by Pudukottai Gopalakrishna Bhagavatar which started with a sequence known as tOdayamangalam, followed by Guru kritis , and continued with songs of the great Bhakti saints -- Narayanatheertha, Jayadeva, Meerabai, Tukaram etc. This is called Sampradaya bhajanai.
In recent years Swami Haridos Giri revived the popularity of Namasankeerthanam and today another crowd-puller is Udayalur Kalyanaraman who has a profound level of musical gnyanam.
Last edited by Always_Evolving on 02 Mar 2009, 00:00, edited 1 time in total.
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
A_E, thanks for that very clear write up. I did not realize 'katha-kala-kshepam' literally means 'to pass time with story telling'. It makes sense. Another instance to show that simple things written in Sanskrit sounds high-brow, religious and spiritual!!
>Exclusively used "usutthAlam" -- a short-hand for implying certain common rhythmic cycles that does not use proper finger-counting.
Can you elaborate/find out more about UsutthAlam, if you can? This came up in another topic as 'Usi thalam' and we did not know what that meant. I am curious if what are you are referring to is same as that.
>Exclusively used "usutthAlam" -- a short-hand for implying certain common rhythmic cycles that does not use proper finger-counting.
Can you elaborate/find out more about UsutthAlam, if you can? This came up in another topic as 'Usi thalam' and we did not know what that meant. I am curious if what are you are referring to is same as that.
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arasi
- Posts: 16873
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30