musicians

natyasri123 · Post by **natyasri123** » 30 Jan 2009, 14:45

dear friends,
before i start, i want everyone to understand that iam trying to address a problem and not intend to misuse any body's talent.
i have been waiting to perform in the natyaanjali festival. i got selected. but the places i got selected, the live music is mandatory- in thanjavur and chidambaram. when i spoke to my teacher, she gave me an account of rs 10,000/- not including the ticket fare. being an elder member in the family, iam already made guilty of the amount i shell out on learning this art.
i had to call the natyaanjali trust to cancel my participation.
i dont want this to repeat with anyone- not because of money.
can i appeal to the artists-musicians here to spare time in their locality for such needs. for eg. if any vocalist is from chidambaram, can he/she pls spare a few hours for such artists in need and not charge?
iam sure i need not eloborate to the educated members here.

um · Post by um » 30 Jan 2009, 16:56

You are lucky to be offered the orchestra for just rs 10,000/- not including the ticket fare ! Usually it is at least double that amount.

In Chidambaram until a few years ago they used to provide a free orchestra (with only 1 rehearsal) to the dancers. It was so bad that some dancers like Sonal Mansingh were cursing the orchestra right on the stage.

Instead of appealing to the musicians, try to appeal to the organizers so that they would allow recorded music.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Jan 2009, 18:41

Perhaps real dance fans will accept that, but to me a dance performance to recorded music is like a body with no heart.

natyasri123 · Post by **natyasri123** » 01 Feb 2009, 18:17

so i conclude- its only right that any poor fellow is not fit to dance, not fit to be a dancer and give performances as its hard to find such generous teacher and musicians. no wonder at the present plight of the classical dance scene- greedy teachers, costly musicians, uninterested audiance, unmotivated lazy but rich dancers getting name fame but no talent, no real quality to show.

rgds

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Feb 2009, 19:21

...costly musicians...

They have stomachs and families too

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 02 Feb 2009, 06:27

Natyasri, I think you must know that nothing comes free. Not recorded music nor orchestras. The harsh truth is that your request will probably fall on deaf ears since everyone needs to make a living. Unfortunately, there do exist greedy teachers and musicians, but, to be fair, I have come across some greedy dancers as well. The scene can get ugly, and the fact will always remain that connections and money do have the potential to get you ahead... at least for a little while.

I agree with a previous poster that you should try and see if the organizers will permit recorded music. In any case, focus on performing as much as you can and saving up for musicians or recorded music. Network with others in the field and fundraise if you have to/if possible. Be confident and practice hard, and with God's grace, hopefully you will be given more opportunities and recognition. All the best to you!

natyasri123 · Post by **natyasri123** » 02 Feb 2009, 18:24

i agree with u umesh. but at times a little charity wont hurt. infact, i am following your suggestion by performing in only those places where one can play a cd. but the prestegious venues ask for live music. anyway, i hope god gives me some strength. sometimes frustrations overtakes one's intelligence.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 Feb 2009, 19:06

Natyasri,

You should keep faith! I have heard that more and more venues in Chennai (especially in the December season) are beginning to allow the use of recorded music.

ardhanariswar · Post by **ardhanariswar** » 02 Feb 2009, 21:16

I think some people need to get real jobs. Then they would be able to afford musicians/necessary things. You can't expect to be an artist and having things just given to you. You gotta work at it and make ends meet. C'est la vie. That doesn't necessarily mean teaching either. There's a number of dance/music teachers available at all costs (even some for free) who are far more specialized in the theory.

Now I'm not saying that poor people can't be artists. But honestly, you can't really be thinking about art when you have to feed yourself/maybe your family. I know everyone's in love with the romantic idea of a starving artist, but its far from practical. This is where I think government should come in. When a lot of people think about India, they see its classical arts. Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music is very well known around the world. I think the TN state government does give scholarships, but it should (if it doesn't already) help people to afford the means to perform. Obviously this means standards wiill have to improve.

I'm not a fan of recorded music. I mean, if you can't afford musicians and/or don't have time, its understandable. But it elevates the entire show when there's a live synthesis of music and dance. You can't mimic that kind of awesomeness.
As a musician who often accompanies dancers my views are pretty much biased haha. But I know how much musicians get marginalized, so it's not like dancers have it better than musicians or musicians have it better than dancers. There's cons to everything.

natyasri123 · Post by **natyasri123** » 03 Feb 2009, 19:26

very true points,all of the above. what i feel bad is , there are organizer who do big events and ask for live music. they can atleast compensate for the live music, when its mandatory, if not anything else. i would go ahead and take the name of natyaanjali. who wouldnot want to dance in chidambaram and thajavur? while they demand it,they as well compensate for it. these venues sure have large audiance and good sponsors also these are the oldest too. now the places which, i think, dont have that great a viewership they are allowing recorded music- like in thirunallar,kumbakonam etc. iam performing there. ( the organizers were nice to me when i told them i want to be a part but cant afford live music, they relocated me).
also in sur singar samsad, orissa festivals- to name a few. if they compensate, one can route the funds.
yes- there are good affordable teachers. one such advert was on orkut too. iam one of those.

ardhanrishwar said:As a musician who often accompanies dancers my views are pretty much biased haha. But I know how much musicians get marginalized, so it's not like dancers have it better than musicians or musicians have it better than dancers. There's cons to everything.

its not like iam getting paid for those performances. in which case i stand wrong. i am specifically talking about events that dont give a penny, but make live music compulsory,

yes live music adds soul. i had my share of performances for live music. but with the increasing costs and missing compensation, one has to sell out his soul to afford it.

like mentioned above, there are affordable teachers who also, teach for free. are there affordable orchestras, who can do music for free? if yes, then pls answer me- what is affordability? and who and where are they?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Feb 2009, 19:36

i am specifically talking about events that dont give a penny, but make live music compulsory

I would resent that too; I feel they should at least cover expenses.

ardhanariswar · Post by **ardhanariswar** » 04 Feb 2009, 03:17

"like mentioned above, there are affordable teachers who also, teach for free. are there affordable orchestras, who can do music for free? if yes, then pls answer me- what is affordability? and who and where are they?"

Oh they're definitly out there. Students are a good resource! I've successfully put together a tabla player, carnatic vocalist, with myself on the veena for an odissi/bharatanatyam performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb8LwmfPANo). All of whom including me, are students in university. Right now, I'm choreographing and doing nattuvangam for a varnam with three bharatanatyam dancers, and I have another tabla player (could not find a mridangam player again haha), a sitar player, and a carnatic vocalist. Again, they are all students (my vocalist is 15 years old! She's brilliant).

Though I'm also a student and this is for a university sponsored show, these kids don't expect compensation. They're really excited and grateful for the opportunity to continue to perform their art. Granted, I have to go to great lengths to make sure my tabla player understands the dance choreography and how a varnam works, but the end result is worth it.

I'm sure in India there's an abundance of young musicians willing to perform. As for nattuvangam, its not that difficult, you can get someone who already has experience with thalam (like a mridangam player) to do it for you. It just takes a little more effort to give the extra training.

um · Post by um » 04 Feb 2009, 07:35

ardhanariswar wrote:Students are a good resource!

You are absolutely right, but how many lazy gurus or dancers are willing to put in some extra time and effort to work with the young inexperienced musicians and singers?
Dancers are too lazy to get a full orchestra from among over 1500 musicians registered with www.vdsartsacademy.org

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 04 Feb 2009, 10:15

I wouldn't generalize about laziness. More than just "some extra time and effort" is required. It is a known fact that playing for dance is different (and more difficult) than playing in a kutcheri. You can't pull any music student and make them play for a dance program. After all, there are whole institutions (Kalakshetra, for example) that train musicians specifically for dance accompaniment.

I am not a carnatic musician so someone please correct me if I am wrong, but many young music students, I imagine, are discovering who they are as artists and will most likely be interested in taking up more kutcheris than dance concerts as they progress. This means that even if a dance guru were to train some music students successfully, the fruits of their efforts may not stick around long. Recently, a dancer mentioned to me that she had a local artist (with no dance experience) play for her show. The program went off well, although the boy had a very difficult time playing for dance and the music suffered a bit because of it. He could get better with more practice and guidance, but he's considered somewhat of a prodigy in the kutcheri circuit, so why should he bother? Hence, maybe it's not a question of laziness, but whether or not the time and effort is worth it for the guru and/or dancer.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Feb 2009, 13:50

Umesh, of course you are right about the additional skills needed to play for dance --- but we are talking about free accompaniment here, and must remember the saying "beggars cannot be choosers".

If a dancer can put together an orchestra of senior students or young professionals in need of exposure and experience, then there is service all round.

vganesh · Post by **vganesh** » 04 Feb 2009, 14:09

Also a general trend among all of us (including myself) , that things should come at free of cost. We have no inclination of understanding the service is chargable concept. May be because we always feel a postman is being paid the government / or a bank employee is being paid to do his job. Nothing wrong in that but it may not work always.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 04 Feb 2009, 19:07

That is also true, Nick, but if that is the case, then I choose good quality recorded music over an orchestra who doesn't really know what they're doing and may actually be a hindrance to the dancer. Others may disagree.

But as you said, senior students/semi-professionals, those primarily kutcheri artists with a bit of dance experience, may be better choices.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Feb 2009, 19:23

One other reason IMO to opt for recorded music over a live orchestra is that given the busy schedules of the musicians and dancers, very little time is available for the group to practice as a team (in bharatanATyam performances, the team cannot just meet before the program and put on a show - some modicum of getting used to each other is essential - that is why, to this day, one of the best music-cum-dance experiences for me is/was the Dr. Padma Subramaniam-Smt. Shyamala Balakrishnan combination), and this can prove very costly, particularly to those dancers that depend on complex rhythm patterns in their nritta (based on my observations). Small things like the lights being in synch with the moods of the dance/dancer can make a big difference in elevating the program, or, bringing down the impact factor; and this requires co-ordination. Every member of the orchestra contributes to the totality of the experience, and I think they need to work together as a group well before a performance to make the most of it - which may make a recording easier to work with, both in terms of money as well as time management.

Finally, Ms. Anita Ratnam has been dancing to recorded music (these are pieces specially commissioned by her, and recorded superbly at enviable sound studios) for a long time now, and I do not think the impact is any lesser. I think it the subject/theme, the quality of the recorded music, the communication skills of the dancer, and the choreography that will carry the day, and the experience for the rasika is not necessarily a flat one. I do agree that poor quality audio recordings do suck and completely pull down the quality of a performance.

natyasri123 · Post by **natyasri123** » 04 Feb 2009, 20:03

i totally agree with umesh and rshankar. if one has a good quality recorded music, and is an excellent dancer, then no need to worry. bharatanatyam is an experiance of dance(thru nrtta, abhinaya), makeup, costume, lights and music. its a total effect.

still what could be the solution for those forums where the dancer is not compensated, not expenses are refunded and live music is mandatory? probably taking the music students along is a good idea.
but one needs to find them. where they are in a particular city etc.
can we create a forum of such enthusiasts? with their place of residence defined and what kind of notice they want so they can be free for a program. a recorded cassttee or a cd can be couriered to them much before a practice session so they can prepare the items the dancer wants to perform. this way the practice sessions can also be minimised.