What attracts crowds to a concert??

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 21 Jan 2009, 22:26

I know this is a tough one to answer.

On a serious note, i m starting to wonder what would bring crowds to a concert, other than the loud, gaudy silk sarees and abhangs and shrieks and all that. I know that my choice of concerts are always rather obscure for the normal concert goers of mylapore. I always thought i knew what was the average rasikas' requirement for attending a concert and i also knew that wouldnt be enought for me. I was hence happy with what I chose and where I went.

Recently I went for a couple of violin solo recitals by arguably the best and popular amongst the violin playing folk. However, both concerts had hardly a score in the audience. There are just 5-6 people to begin and it grew to about 30 at the peak. The music was great and soothing for me and i thoroughly enjoyed both recitals, but i m left wondering what else would bring people to concert.

Is it a curse on instrumental concerts? We have already almost pushed vainikas and nadasvaram artists to a corner and dont bother much about them usually. There are hardly a few flautists who are performing and those who perform have only a few takers. The fiddle too?

I m rather confused and am rather worried.

My post might look disjoint and/or frivolous and/or noisy and/or far from truth and/or hush-able and/or time-wasting and/or anything else. I may be wrong as well. I just wanted to pour my worries and hence this post.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Jan 2009, 22:46

The sabhas might have done some customer surveys. It may be useful to tap them for the info.
Again VKV as well as Mohan can comment on their experience at Cleveland and Sydney festivals..

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 21 Jan 2009, 22:48

Bharath, a great topic! I think you will get as many answers as posters - starting from harimau's tongue-in-cheek (or may be not) USP! I think that the choice between two equally good artists is made on intangibles like personality (includes gaudy silks) and possibly USPs. I also think that it is a matter of advertisement - in this day and age, it would occur through blogs, op-eds, lec-dems on TV - all activities designed to do 2 things - push the artists' excellence on the public, while hogging the limelight. Sometimes (and unfortunately), these intangibles, USPs, and advertisements are potent enough to bolster an artists' worth, rather than an accessory at best (sort of like the situation where 'make-up' makes a person stunning, and not their innate bone structure and skin tones).

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:01

Shankar
I remember the olden times when crowds flocked when a woman was singing (pommanaaTTi paaDaRaa)..
Perhaps times have not changed

(as you mention make-up and gaudy silks..)

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:33

If I read your question correctly, you're asking "How do we support instrumentalists who provide quality music?" and not "Isn't it unfair that flashy populists attract crowds?".

The glib answer is simple - those who claim to like quality music should put their money where their mouth is.

If you're organizing a series of quality instrumental concerts, I'd ask that you:

1. announce your schedule early
2. publicize it well
3. organize it at a venue that has good audio, seats, lighting, parking, and toilets
4. pay the artists well
5. avoid commercial sponsors
6. charge high ticket prices

[edit: I have removed a hypothetical exercise as unhelpful and distracting.]Let's say you need 300 paying subscribers at Rs. 5000 each to break even. There are absolutely more than 300 supporters of quality music in Chennai. The key is to let them know about your series and to convince them it's worth their time.

Why do I suggest that there be no commercial sponsorship? Other than the visual blight of sponsor banners on the stage (yuk), raising money like this lets organizers pick a lousy venue and lets them not publicize it. Not knowing about it, and not having paid for tickets already, potential audience members don't feel committed to coming. (If you've spent Rs.5000 on a ticket, you're less likely to blow it off because your cousin is visiting.)

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:39

I feel new innovations in the method of playing can be one.

Moving away from lyrical compositions? Ah! tough one!

Will playing an all "RTP concert" attract crowd?

(for instrumentalists)

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:40

People earn their reputation by starting out renditions in small groups, temples, bhajans,etc and one such occasion you meet with someone with influence to take you to a little bigger group and by word of mouth, you are known in the local area. Slowly it catches to other adjoining areas.

If you are born in a family of famous and established artist, you start out as a junior and ultimately cash the good will of the family for your reputation.

Be a sahapadakan for reputed artist and follow him and help him.

Offer free renditions for weddings, celebrations, etc.

Be part of rasikas.

Some and/or all of these should help.

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:50

So, gn.sn, how would you differentiate your prposed series of 5 concerts from the tons of themes, series and other such stuff that gets organized in chennai? Why would 300 people pay way more money to attend a concert when they can get to see something free?

While advertising and organization do play a role, I think the psyche of the concert going crowd is what Bharath is enquiring about. When you have a varadarajan performing so well, it just does not make sense that more than 10 people come. On the other hand, if it were to be a vocal concert, its quite obvious that more than 10 would show up.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 21 Jan 2009, 23:59

rbharath wrote:The music was great and soothing for me and i thoroughly enjoyed both recitals, but i m left wondering what else would bring people to concert.

Is it a curse on instrumental concerts? We have already almost pushed vainikas and nadasvaram artists to a corner and dont bother much about them usually. There are hardly a few flautists who are performing and those who perform have only a few takers. The fiddle too?

The veena has probably been dismissed as too slow (so people like T R Venkataraman get dismissed too!), and the nadaswaram as incapable of producing accurate notes (including people like Mambalam Siva). The flute never really was popular, was it? Somehow, there's been monopoly in flute, I feel.

Now, the violin. I think the answer in part lies in Professor TNK's recent interview with The Hindu, where he says the accompanists are not being allowed to blossom to their fullest. And ultra-conservativists think that violin is an accompanying instrument after all and don't really show much interest in solos.

And some people apparently want to hear the "lyrics" of the songs. With so many threads here on how singers are slaughtering the lyrics, and how rasikas don't care for that, I don't understand why this doesn't extend to not having the lyrics sounded at all (when prejudice on veenas and nadaswarams extend to TRV and Mambalam Siva)!

And one of the violin solos rbharath mentioned is of RKSK. RKSK gave a lecture on MD's kritis (rbharath's done a review of that too!) -- music and LYRICS (with a lot more emphasis on the latter, in fact) which left me TOTALLY AWESTRUCK. I'm sure not all vocalists could comment on MD's lyrics with anywhere near such authority. And just incidentally, he demonstrated by singing that day, to his disciple (well-known vocalist) Amrutha Murali's violin accompaniment.

I think conservativism has its ups and downs, and this dynamics is what causes unpleasant things to happen. But there's some hypocritic conservativism too, and that's really bad.

kadambam · Post by **kadambam** » 22 Jan 2009, 00:24

Interesting topic for a change..

Word of Mouth is very important & the artist's ability to build a relationship with the audience. If we group the audience into categories, it could be something like:

A)carnatic-analysts (all those kanakku likers & raga analyzers) - minority
B)CM fans (enjoy listening to CM & probably can identify few ragas) - siginificant group
C)Bhakthi-oriented (more of the orthodox brahmin crowd) - siginificant group
D)Music students - (full time academic/and non academic) - minority to significant
E)New to CM - Minority

The above groups are not neccessarily mutually-exclusive; But, for someone to be a crowd puller, he/she should focus on B) and/or C) rasikas. Clear examples are a MSS, Maharajapuram, Sudha, Aruna etc.. There are artists who tend to focus more on A) type fans like TNS, but may not be sufficient enough for a full house.

Ultimately, if an artist wants more of E), to expand his/her brand then that can happen only through word of mouth from B) or C). So, it is important for the artist to cater to these groups, even if that means repeating the same tukkada in every other concert. By doing this, artist builds a relationship with B) and/or C) rasika base and they are happy to spread the word around.

PS: This is in no way any serious analysis, but my 2 cents based on experience and perception.

suma · Post by **suma** » 22 Jan 2009, 01:13

Scarcity of Concerts in a place is the key for getting crowds whether it is vocal or instrumental.
Cleveland brings the top brass and creates a festive mela environment and everyone flocks there.
The place where I live has a festival once a year. All of us go there not for any particular artist but to be a part of the event. It is like a mela in Cleveland and the place where I live and that's what pulls crowds.

It is my personal opinion that in Chennai, there are too many concerts and all year around and that could be the reason why people feel, if they miss a certain concert, they can always catch up on another concert very soon.

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 22 Jan 2009, 03:54

mahesh3 wrote:So, gn.sn, how would you differentiate your prposed series of 5 concerts from the tons of themes, series and other such stuff that gets organized in chennai? Why would 300 people pay way more money to attend a concert when they can get to see something free?

The OP's point is that they don't attend the free concerts. I'm making the argument that people will attend concerts if they have paid (through the nose) for them. I also provided a number of reasons why some people (not all, by any means) will sign up. Finally, if one sets about organizing something like this a year in advance, one's goal is clear - to get 150 or so people to sign up for a pair of tickets each.

I'll repeat my main point: people who claim to like quality music should do more. Let's begin by paying more for concerts. If not, we'll be left in the current vicious cycle where there is no audience, thus little revenue, therefore artists get paid a pittance, and venues provide scant facilities for the artists and the audience.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 22 Jan 2009, 04:16

If we want to think of market dynamics, IMO, from the average chennai cm rasika's perspective, cm is a commodity that is widely available "everywhere" - lots of supply. The supply is albeit of varying quality, but they can find a wide array of choices on most days. They are also used to getting cm all these days for very little money (free concerts, or concerts that charge very less) - and they can get the top artists for these as well.

Hence. to put it crudely, they view it say like how a consumer views a toothbrush and hence would pay what they think a toothbrush is worth. To say this particular brand of toothbrush is really special, technically unique and hence wonder why wont people buy it more, and pay more etc. - well it just doesnt work - since again on the whole, from an average consumer, it is still a variant of an very widely available commodity.

Arun

PS: the emboldened parts are important - as it reflects the mindset of the average rasika in chennai (consumer) thinks of cm (the product), rather than any inherent quality of cm itself.

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 22 Jan 2009, 04:24

arunk wrote: Hence. to put it crudely, they view it say like how a consumer views a toothbrush and hence would pay what they think a toothbrush is worth. To say this particular brand of toothbrush is really special, technically unique and hence wonder why wont people buy it more, and pay more etc. - well it just doesnt work - since again on the whole, from an average consumer, it is still a variant of an very widely available commodity.

But it does work:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Sonicare- ... 000EHNDD0/

When marketing to a niche, it does not matter what the average consumer thinks.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 22 Jan 2009, 04:35

True - but you are assuming that those want good music have the means to pay for it every time

- they are not exactly related.

This would work if you find that most fans that want the elite music are also well off to spend a hefty premium for every one of these concerts.

IMO, there is only so much you can squeeze out of it (i.e. cm as a entertainment means) - although I think it got unfairly squeezed in the wrong direction.

Arun

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 22 Jan 2009, 04:49

arunk wrote:but you are assuming that those want good music have the means to pay for it every time - they are not exactly related.

This would work if you find that most fans that want the elite music are also well off to spend a hefty premium for every one of these concerts.

No, I'm not. The OP's point is that people are not attending quality free concerts. If they are not attending free concerts, they can just as easily not attend paid concerts...

I'm saying that if you charge a reasonable (high) price, you can successfully run a small (300-seat) series of quality music. This does not prevent others from organizing free concerts.

I'm also making the larger point that people who claim to enjoy high-quality music should seriously pay more. Fans of popular music pay large amounts for tickets, CDs, T-shirts, posters, and the like: if CM fans spend a similar proportion of their income, the field will be much healthier.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 22 Jan 2009, 04:55

But OP says the current free concerts are of good quality. So if the people who enjoy high-quality music wont attend them when they are free of cost and of good quality, why do you expect them to show up when you charge more? Because it makes them feel more elite?

Arun

PS: Oh, and despite the tone of my posts above, I am quite weak on economics

- so i could still be misreading you or going about it the wrong way!

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 22 Jan 2009, 06:14

I feel RKSK should just take to a vocal career

!

The issue that Bharath brings up is abt people not going to instrumental concerts....and I must admit while this is not related to Bharath's point, I am also quite unclear as to why people who are so passionate abt buying instrumental carnatic kutcheries on cd just dont make it to a live concert. I know several friends of mine that belong to this category. By the way, I thought RKSK and Varadu's combo trick was nice a couple years ago.

I know how hrd Shashank/Mysore brothers work to sustain interest among their core fans.....lets just say that their fan base while appreciative and adoring of their talent, are just not in the "I am crazy abt Sanjay/Aruna/TNS crowd and I will dow hatever it takes to attend their concert, free or Rs 300".

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 22 Jan 2009, 06:17

arunk wrote: if the people who enjoy high-quality music wont attend them when they are free of cost and of good quality, why do you expect them to show up when you charge more? Because it makes them feel more elite?

Not exactly. Most of us attend a variety of concerts and other events every year, and we don't choose the lowest priced ones. In many cities, if you carefully planned it, you could get by on free concerts alone, but most of us frequently - and gladly - pay. CM CDs are another example. Why would anyone buy expensive CDs when high-quality music is available online for free? But we do - gladly.

Why do people not attend a high-quality free concert? Here are my speculations:
1. People don't know about the event. A one-week notice doesn't cut it; most of us need to plan things much earlier than that.
2. People don't have to commit to attending. If you buy a movie ticket in advance, you will show up ("sorry, can't do dinner, got tickets to a show") - if you haven't bought a ticket, there are many incentives to abort.
3. The venue is often terrible. Bad sound, bad parking, terrible toilets - all these are incentives to not attend.
4. Organizers don't work hard at getting the audience in the door. (I'm sure there will be a string of complaints that organizers are martyrs for the cause, but I don't accept it. If you can't sell 50-75% of seats consistently, why are you an organizer?)
5. Organizers get away with paying performers a pittance. If artists demanded appropriate payment (lakhs per concert) the organizer will take it more seriously.

Think about it - if a well-respected forum member organized high-quality concerts at a good venue, planned the series well in advance, worked hard at getting 100-200 people to pay a high price, and in turned compensated artists well, would she not have enough takers?

I don't think you misread me; I'm just presenting it badly - but it's a well-understood marketing approach nevertheless. (The Sonicare toothbrush is real, and it sells well.)

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 22 Jan 2009, 07:47

rbharath, maybe you should just ask a few of your music lover friends if they knew about this series. If they did ... and if they are close friends of yours, maybe you can also ask why they didn't come, especially if they are RKSK or Varadarajan fans.
---
Once you find out, maybe we can understand everything better.

kjrao · Post by **kjrao** » 22 Jan 2009, 07:47

An individual or a group people who are not only interested in promoting CM but are also financially well off can do a lot in popularising it.

Dr. Mohan Alva from Moodabidri( Near Mangalore ), who also runs several educational institutions, encourages artistic pursuits in his institutions and also runs a week-long cultural festival known as Alva's Virasat. This event is very well organized and well attended. He supports all art froms - Music and Dance from differnt parts of India.

Read here:
http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_dis ... sic'+Start

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Jan 2009, 08:06

I know several relatives who don't like instrumental concerts because they cannot identify the pieces or sing along (in their minds, hopefully) with the artiste (even if the play is true to sahitya, it IS somewhat abstract, I'd agree). Also, in the past, I know people specifically attended concerts where TNK/LGJ/MSG were accompaying to listen to them. But to what extent are Varadarajan and RKSK household names today (they should be, though!)?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Jan 2009, 08:17

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 22 Jan 2009, 08:41

On violin accompanists today...

Professor Krishnan: I have come across many promising youngsters with abundant talent. However, not everyone is allowed to blossom to their fullest capacity. I feel sorry for them. They are at the mercy of the main artist and have to play second fiddle in the real sense. I did not have such problems when I accompanied the stalwarts of those days.
---
Me: In general, sarvalaghu phrases swarams allow more freedom to the violinist. Beyond a point, kanakku from the main artist becomes totally unfair ... they either seem like a prepared ploy to shame the violinist, or a collective ploy to thrill the audiences.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 22 Jan 2009, 08:52

srikant1987 wrote:
And one of the violin solos rbharath mentioned is of RKSK. RKSK gave a lecture on MD's kritis (rbharath's done a review of that too!) -- music and LYRICS (with a lot more emphasis on the latter, in fact) which left me TOTALLY AWESTRUCK. I'm sure not all vocalists could comment on MD's lyrics with anywhere near such authority. And just incidentally, he demonstrated by singing that day, to his disciple (well-known vocalist) Amrutha Murali's violin accompaniment.

Amritha Murali is predominantly a disciple of Smt T Rukmini and Shri KR Kedaranathan, not RKSK's I guess.

As for instrumental concerts, well, its true that not many turn up these days. But, personally too, I would prefer a Veena, flute or Nadaswaram concert to violin concerts today. Somehow I don't see a LGJ/MSG/TNK like 'solo' performance today. I like it immensely and would sometimes just go to concerts for the violin even today but solo somehow doesn't attract me a great deal. And if it has to be a violin concrete, I would rather prefer a duet or trio rather than a solo.

These are just personal opinions.

Sathej

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Jan 2009, 08:55

Sathej, any idea why you might prefer even flute, veena, nadhaswaram to violin?

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 22 Jan 2009, 08:57

srikant1987 wrote: ---
Me: In general, sarvalaghu phrases swarams allow more freedom to the violinist. Beyond a point, kanakku from the main artist becomes totally unfair ... they either seem like a prepared ploy to shame the violinist, or a collective ploy to thrill the audiences.

Well, it depends on the violinst. Some are actually comfortable with kanakku as against playing Alapanai for an unheard-of Ragam, some vice versa. Kanakku per se is the style of a few artistes and that has to be viewed as an individual preference just as someone likes to do long Neravals or employs Brigas. Even today, I have seen violinists reprdouce exactly the same kanakku as sung by the main artiste as long as he/she indulges in it. At the same time, I've had experiences of the violinist playing his own 'simpler' looking returns no matter how simple kanakku the vocalist sings!

Sathej

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:00

@bilahari,
To me, the violin sounds better when it is an accompanying instrument. The other three haven't been accompanying instruments per se(atleast I haven't heard them so). Am yet to examine why. That was just a feeling. Shall come up with an elaborate answer soon.

Sathej

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:24

Bharath,
Thanks for starting a topic which has brought out a lot of interesting responses, many of them worth thinking about and worth acting upon. Each post carries some points to ponder.
Yes, Chennai offers a lot of concerts to all categories of rasikAs--to an extent that listeners can skip one for any trivial reason (oh, there will be another one of the same performer next week at a closer venue, and free too). Ask those of us who come from places which hold barely any CM concert anywhere near us--we will pay a ransom if necessary-though ticket prices in some venues in going through the roof every year. While sponsorship helps in arranging a quality concert without worrying about how to pay the musicians, the 'free' part of it only feeds indifference and lack of commitment in a concert goer, as gn.sn points out. But how many folks in Chennai are prepared to pay that high price (without advertisement for their products)? Some may do, those in high society. But, will they ATTEND the concert? If they do, will they continue to attend other concerts? With the rest of the population, it has been too much of a good thing, for nothing. Those who would pay for movie tickets (and attend), are conditioned enough to feel that a CM concert is no big deal. If not this one, another one in a week may be, and that too a free one! I wonder if 'pay as much as you can', with a collection box (advertise it as 'contributions' concert--pay as much as you can) is a good start.This way, you start making listeners feel that nothing can be had without your putting something into it. It is like making a spoiled child see reason and mend its ways.
Yes, proper advertising (clear directions to the venue and a phone number with someone answering it).
Even requesting some restraint on the part of the sponsors about keeping the publicity of the product tasteful (not blared out).
A pity that good intrumental concerts do not catch the imagination of border-line rasikAs who can be easily drawn into CM without having to deal with words in languages they do not understand in--what thy fear as 'for seasoned rasikAs only'.
Yes, make the venues inviting--good sound, clean toilets, safe steps and easy access...

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:41

Arasi, intriguing suggestion:
"I wonder if 'pay as much as you can', with a collection box (advertise it as 'contributions' concert--pay as much as you can) is a good start.This way, you start making listeners feel that nothing can be had without your putting something into it. It is like making a spoiled child see reason and mend its ways."

Might it work? Or will people just drop spare change in the undiyal and keep going?! This reminds me of the Annalakshmi chain of restaurants in Singapore/ Malaysia where patrons can pay as they like. In my family's case, we pay as much as we would for any South Indian restaurant, and then some more depending on the quality of the food on that day.

kjrao · Post by **kjrao** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:51

Availability of recorded music, busy life style (for all the members of the family including the infant), entertainment in ever increasing channels on the TV and choice of entertainment, increasing choices in sports and other hobbies, more and more demands on the facilities and conforts in the venue have all contributed to the decreasing number of people attending the concerts. So, instead of just focussing on increasing the number of people attending live concerts, we have to concentrate on reviving the interest in CM by any means - particularly with the younger generation.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:53

Coolkarni's poser is worth considering.

We had in our series of concerts last year , implemented most of the suggestions above.

1. Advertising - venue, direction, time posted well in advance in the forum and thro emails.
2. We had kept a box in some of the concerts - pay as much as you can - with dismal results
3. Some of the rasikas contributed sizeable amounts but didn't attend
4. Most of the concerts had good food also.

Inspite of all this except for a few hardcore members , attendance from rasikas.org forumites for whom the concerts were intended for , was dismal. Many a times friends, relatives and neighbours saved the day.

Is the scenario same everwhere or is it specific to Chennai? What is the scenario in Bangalore, Mysore, Hyderabad & Trivandrum.?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:53

Reminds me of the story of the despot who wanted to indulge in bathing and swimming (?) in milk. Asks famine stricken citizens to contribute a pot of milk each to fill the tank. At dawn, all he finds is a water filled tank. Contributors sneaked in at night, each thinking, who would know with all that milk that my contribution is just water!
No alms box! An open, for all to see platter. Contribute as much as much as you can afford--is another incentive!

kjrao · Post by **kjrao** » 22 Jan 2009, 10:08

Probably we have to ask everybody what they think will be a valid excuse for not attending a good CM concert !!! Then, some statistician amongst us should workout what is the probability of getting X number of participants out of the 'Y' number of CM enthusiasts !!!

Dhanavendra · Post by **Dhanavendra** » 22 Jan 2009, 10:19

Well. we talk of rasikas not attending some concerts but are ready to stand for some concerts. Now in the last music season how many of us in this thread have reviewed low profile, less popular artists but fairly senior artists who are full of talent - name it vidwat, bhavam, classicism etc. Many of us seem to have been reviewing all the concerts of popular artists only and some of us reviewed just one artist of their bias. If we rasikas who like to write in this forum are so biased how can anyone except much from any other category like A B C D E.
If we point a finger at someone else, we are actually pointing out three fingers at ourselves and the thumb at eternity. So the thumbs up towards eternity requires that we don't point our fingers at anybody.
The nadaswaram season, a rarity, is on at Bhrama Gana Sabha thanks to patronage of the textile sector. Have any of us who have complained about instruments losing charm made any attempt to listen to the concerts from 19th till date. Shame on us to complain on this forum and not attending such concerts. Incidentally, the concerts are free and situated well with excellent sound systems, good toilets, excellent seating arrangement and parking bays. We love to criticise but not change ourselves. I hope ones who complain attend the remaining concerts. Today it is Sangeetha Kalanidhi AKC Natarajan's turn.
Why not attend this concert and listen to splendid ragas in such a rare instrument held in awe by western clarinet players. Let the veterans here review the concert.
Probably if the young popular ones render the same in theatres we may review
Charity begins at home.

balu · Post by **balu** » 22 Jan 2009, 10:33

very well said

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:29

We changed our travel plans to include AKC's concert. After so many years, I heard him a couple of years ago in Bangalore and was waiting fo hear him again. We were very happy to be there, not just because he was awarded sangeeta kalanidhi! The only reason I missed nAgasvaram concerts this year was because they clashed with family/friends performances. I attended many concerts of youngsters and the upcoming and loved it all. I am not qualified enough to write reviews, but whenever such a review appeared, I would add a comment had I attended the concert. Agreed, I attended several concerts of my favorites (not available in my part of the world) but happily went from sabha to sabha to hear young talents and the not so well-known veterans...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:44

I think three points have emerged from the discussions above:

Crowds for violin solos

I think the answer is that we get enough and more of the violin in regular concerts. This is certainly what I think myself although I will be happy to make exceptions for giants like RKSK and SV (even better, if both perform together!) or those who do not normally accompany like TNK, Lalgudi siblings etc. As someone rightly pointed out, RKSK and SV are not household names yet and are only known to concert regulars. Even then I must say I am surprised by the size of the turnout. Nevertheless, I think this will change by the time they hit their fifties. I wonder how popular MSG/Lalgudi/TNK were in their thirties - were they household names like they are now"¦perhaps the old timers would know.

Crowds for instrumental concerts

Strangely enough, the trend in Carnatic music is opposite of that in HM and although I share the concerns expressed above, I think this is more reason for cheer than gloom. Vocal concerts in HM are fast losing their popularity - as I have mentioned before even top artistes like Parween, Sanjeev and Ashwini perform to empty halls, here in Mumbai (even in un-ticketed concerts!). On the other hand, instrumentalists continue to pack in the halls and command very high premia - usually, upwards of 500 bucks for a show. Without naming names, it is also well recognized that most of these artistes are known for playing to the gallery and the eclipse of the vocal tradition is often lamented by connoisseurs.

Happily, in CM, the primacy of vocal music remains unchallenged. This is not to say that more needs to done for promoting instrumental concerts - I am, in particular, concerned about the fate of the Veena and the Nagaswaram. But it would be a far more serious situation if the reverse were true.

Crowds for "highbrow"

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:51

Dhanavendra if you go through Bharath's reviews, you will find that they cover precisely the kind of artistes you are talking about! Many other in this forum have attended concerts of and written about, concerts of veterans like Parassala Ponammal, RK Srikantan, Nedunuri and the like. Of course there are those who write only about their favourites and this is no crime either but overall I think we have a very good range of artistes being covered on this forum. In fact, if anything, it the "most popular" artistes whose concerts are generally ignored here!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:54

Vijay,
http://sangeethamshare.org/sl/R_K_SHRIR ... _CHENNAI_/

I'd personally kill to attend solos/duets by RKSK/SV. Wrt TNK/MSG/LGJ, were they even giving many solo concerts in their thirties?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Jan 2009, 13:31

Thanks Bilahari - will surely get it...was quite disappointed not to be in town when the concert happened. As for TNK/LGJ/MSG, I don't think they were performing solo until the 70s (when they would have been in their 40s/50s) but I could be wrong. I think Lalguji stopped accompnying sometime in the 80s

preposterous · Post by **preposterous** » 22 Jan 2009, 14:14

...He did not subscribe to the concept of 'instrumentalising' Carnatic music. According to him, it was vocal music that reigned supreme and the best instrumentalist was one who could reproduce a singing effect of the instrument...

Quote from:

Remembering a Grandfather
By R.K. Shriramkumar

'He' in the above quote refers to Sri RKSK's grandfather

From an Article in the MA souvenir this year by Sri R.K. Shriramkumar.
Link to the full article: http://www.musicacademymadras.in/souven ... father.php

Dhanavendra · Post by **Dhanavendra** » 22 Jan 2009, 14:32

arasiji
It is a strange coincidence. I have high regard for your discussions. So I just skipped your post on the subject. But after reading your last post only I looked at your earlier post and was shocked that almost all the reasons I have written you have discussed earlier in a different manner. So it is not aimed at your post. It just happened. My intention is never to hurt anyone but to pinch oneself towards Reality

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Jan 2009, 18:01

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Jan 2009, 18:10

Thanks Coolji...

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 22 Jan 2009, 18:27

Somehow I don't see a LGJ/MSG/TNK like 'solo' performance today.

Professor TNK still gives solos!

I still like Lalgudi mama's accompaniment more than his solos. (And it's hard to come by his solos too. He mostly gave duets and trios I think. And of course, the Veena-Venu-Violin.)

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 22 Jan 2009, 18:34

Sathej wrote:The other three haven't been accompanying instruments per se(atleast I haven't heard them so). Am yet to examine why. That was just a feeling. Shall come up with an elaborate answer soon.

Veenais were accompanying instruments. In fact, R K Srikantan often has Gottu Vadyam Ravi Kiran accompany him. Nityashree has sung to nadaswaram accompaniment too.

Veenais might have been replaced by violiins because of people like Ariyakudi and GNB probably.

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 22 Jan 2009, 19:25

arunk wrote:But OP says the current free concerts are of good quality. So if the people who enjoy high-quality music wont attend them when they are free of cost and of good quality, why do you expect them to show up when you charge more? Because it makes them feel more elite?

One, the assessment of "qood quality" varies a lot from listener to listener. Generally there is some consensus of opinion only at the extremes. i.e. very popular and very non-popular, usually if not always, for some concrete reason.
IMHO, Classical performers who in the current climate of popular cultural inclinations (or lack thereof) draw huge crowds, well and truly deserve their recognition. As for the converse, the extremely unpopular either deserve the cold-shoulder, or sometimes it is just a reflection on the perception of the genre/style and not the musician. Those who fall in the middle, I guess it is just luck and marketing that decides.
The elitist element should never be underestimated. Many classical institutions around the world are reliant on that model for survival! The November-Fest for instance and the Music Academy charge good prices, and cater to a different crowd. Its all about branding and patrons wanting to be seen at certain occasions etc. For instance I dont recall seeing many overdressed rasikas at Ragasudha or Parthasarathy Swami Sabha, MFAC or Hamsadhwani etc.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jan 2009, 19:47

Dhanvendra,
No, I didn't take it personally.

srikant,
You speak of LalguDi as an accompanist appealing to you more. My personal preference too is to hear most of the present day violinists as accompanists. Haven't heard RKSK's solo ( violin or vocal) concert yet. As I do very year, heard TNK this season. Won't miss it for anything. Also heard Srikantan with Ravikiran and liked it very much. Loved hearing Kalpagam Swaminathan play the vINai and her singing a few lines along! One problem I have is that when I hear violinists speeding in solos and duets, I am switched off, however beautiful their playing is. That is why I prefer them as accompanists, I suppose!

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 22 Jan 2009, 20:09

Can't agree more there. I prefer almost all violinists from LGJ/MSG/TNK to the present day violinists as accompanists rather than solo. In case of solo, the best pick for me would be LGJ. Both in terms of skill and appeal, accompanying is far more pleasing to me.
Sathej