word in tamil

[cookmex]

Dear members,
How do you write in Tamil in latin alphabet:
"Thavil for practice" or "thavil for training"

Thanks

[sridhar_ranga]

Cookmex - can you give the full sentence of what you want to convey in English? Who is the intended recipient - this will help decide if colloquial Tamil will do or you need formal Tamil. The context in which you want to use 'Tavil for practice' can decide the choice of words, as practice can be expressed in multiple words in Tamil.

If you want to tell a carnatic musician "I use this tavil for practice" you'd use the carnatic appropriate word 'Saadhakam' for practice.
If you want to talk to an academician /music college prof about using a tavil for practice (and some high end treatise on indian percussion techniques for theory), you would use the word "payirchi" or "seymurai" indicating practice/practical in a formal context, the word "vaasittal" (playing) in a semi-formal way, or simply "pazhagudhal" (practicing) in an informal speech....for practice would then take the form of "payirchikku" or "seymuraikku" or "vaasippadarkku" or simply "pazhaga" - but all these words can be re-written colloquially as "payirchi seyya" (I can hardly imagine anyone using that in day to day speech), "vaasikka" / "saadhagam panna" (quite appropriate if you are talking to a tavil vidwan, conveys it best), etc.

Prefix or suffix the word "tavil" to any of the above expressions and we are done partially....but still you may need an "indha tavil" (this tavil) or "indha tavilai" etc. if you want to talk about a specific tavil.

So please share the full context and the full sentence you want translated

[cookmex]

sridhar_rang:
To designate a plastic thavil built by me, just for practicing. Not using a real thavil yet.

Thank you very much.

[vasanthakokilam]

sridhar_rang: That is quite an exhaustive treatment. With cookmex throwing a curve ball about the context, even your exhaustive list seems not enough. Payirchi thavil seems to be the closest. But it does not capture the 'home built plastic thavil but not a real one' context but may be that is not important. What do you think now?

[srkris]

சுலபமாக சாதகம் செய்ய உதவும் பயிற்சி தவில்.
Sulabamaaga saadhakam seyya udhavum payirchi thavil
A Practice-Tavil that makes learning easier.

[arasi]

payilvadaRkena tavil pOl amainda oru sAdanam...

[Ponbhairavi]

பிளாஸ்டிக்கில் தவில்- -வாசித்து பழக மட்டும்
rajagopalan

[arasi]

Ponbhairavi,
Yes, to the point.

[sridhar_ranga]

Ponbhairavi that's very appropriate...since cookmex can't probably read Tamil text, let me transliterate it

"plastikkil thavil - vaasiththu pazhaga maTTum"

But how do we help Cookmex to pronounce the letter "zha"? may be VK can record the phrase and post a link to the audio file.

[Ponbhairavi]

thanks. If Cookmex know french you can simply indicate that it is pronounced exactly like the " Ja " in the french alphabet.
rajagopalan

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Ponbhairavi that's very appropriate...since cookmex can't probably read Tamil text, let me transliterate it

"plastikkil thavil - vaasiththu pazhaga maTTum".

"plasTikkil tavil - vAsittup pazhaga maTTum" would be ok?

[vasanthakokilam]

Just a minor mod: "plastic tavil - vAsittup pazhaga maTTum"

[arasi]

adAvadu, plastic-inAl Ana tavil...
I'm back in my logic class now
Not that the tavil is placed in plastic (bag?).

[Pratyaksham Bala]

plasTik or plastic?

[vasanthakokilam]

Arasi, Yes, like maN kuDam is maNNAl Ana kuDam

PB, whatever the right transliteration for பிளாஸ்டிக் is. ( assuming the purpose of not using the English spelling here is so it can be written in Tamil script properly )

[arasi]

VK,
vennIrp pAnai is a pot which 'contains' hot water!
Yes, tamizh, like several other old languages is intriguing.
SULai aDuppil SuTTa pAnai (terra cotta) is maN pAnai,
When you boil water in it, it's vennIrp pAnai,
plastic--il, plasic--aal, plastic-uDan, plastic koNDu...

PB,
CarnAtic, karnAtic, karnAtiK or carnAtik?

[Pratyaksham Bala]

If we are talking of transliteration:-
CarnAtic = சர்னாதிச்
karnAtic = கர்னாதிச்
karnAtiK = கர்னாதிக்
carnAtik = சர்னாதிக்
karnaTik = கர்நாடிக்

[arasi]

talai SuTRugiRadu, kuTRugiRadu?

[Ponbhairavi]

V.K;
when an item has been existing in a material( and hence known already ) it will suffice for example to say mann pAnai instead of mannAl Ana pAnai ( velli thattu, thanga thattu eversilver thattu... ) .But when an item which was existing in one material is made in a different material for the first time and introduced in the market we may say plastic il thavil to emphasize on the new invention. after some years of usage and familiarity it will be enough to say plastic thavil If an item exists only in one material it is not necessary to say the material at all. No need to say mara veenai or mara violin
rajagopalan.

[vasanthakokilam]

PB: Understood. Yes, it is plasTik then.

Arasi, rajagopalan: Arasi's point about platikilAna has some merit. It avoid the ambiguity between 'in' and 'made of'. I understand what Rajagopalan is saying that once established, we can leave out the glue words.

All this goes back to Tamil being a agglutinative language, meaning glue prefixes and suffixes are used for the various grammatical constructs instead of separate words. And after a while the agglutination gets dropped but understood from the context, as Rajagopalan says. The fascinating thing is words like UrukAi. As I was taught, it actually represents three words: Uriya kai, Urum kai, UrappOhum Kai etc.. in all three tenses (vinai thohai). Implicit agglutination taken to the logical extreme.

[arasi]

Yes, pAnai is understood as maN pANDam. However, we take liberties with language by using that familiar word for something other than maN pANDam. veNgalp pAnai or uruLi (descriptive of its roundedness?) is one such. VeNgalam itself is a question mark. veNmaiyAna kalam ?? Then, why the pAnai bit got attached to it? Like Gate kadavu, is it tautological?
We call veNgalam bell metal in English. Is the metal called veNgalam in tamizh? Then, a veNgalap pAnai is a veNgalak kalam?
I know we have moved a long way away from plastic(k)! Hope Coolmex picked whatever he liked to use in the description of his product!

[Ponbhairavi]

Yes . Vennkalam is the name of the metal. There are vennkala tumblers, thattus, vilakku silai, ம்ணி உதிரிணி. the property of this is that it is sonorous(hence used for making temple மணி (bell metal). it breaks when it falls down, better conductor and retains heat( vennkala panai for cooking rice and venkala uruli for boiling milk without overflowing. The metallurgists will say the critical carbon content which makes the difference with pithalai as musicologists say the note difference which turns kambhoji into yadukula kambhoji
rajagopalan.

[Sundara Rajan]

VeNgalam/Venngalam/Bronze/bell metal is an alloy of copper and TIN that is not affected by acid, whereas Brass/pithaLai is an alloy of copper and Zinc that is affected by acid and hence unfit for making acid foods like rasam etc.. I am very glad that none has ventured to coin a new tamil word for plastic, unlike pErundu for bus or gaNini for computer or thALALar for registrar. A man from the city went to a village in Tamil Nadu and asked a villager for directions to the "pErundu nilayam". The villager was confused and then the stranger asked for the Bus Stand. The villager smiled and said "appidi tamizhla kELayya, solREn" and gave the directions.

[arasi]

Sundara RAjan,
He would have guided the man to the 'dESan' (station) too!

[veeyens3]

When the craze forrendering everything in Tamil, one guy went too far and transllated district collector as "mAvatta porukki"!

[arasi]

[rshankar]

When the craze forrendering everything in Tamil, one guy went too far and transllated district collector as "mAvatta porukki"!

I wouldn't go as far as to say the guy went 'too far'! For some of them 'porukki' would be a benign epithet!

[sridhar_ranga]

Read in another forum recently that a Tamil novelist (Pattukkottai Prabhakar) had jocularly referred to the microphone as "oli poRukki" in one of his novels (compared to 'oli perukki' for a speaker)

[arasi]

'PoRukki oli' at times! perukkit taLLa vENDiya onRu...

[veeyens3]

And do you remember when a local dignity entered his office to take charge, he found to his consternation, his office was designated "chairmaN' in singular whereas the lowly clerk was designated "writeR" in plural and he promptly corrected the inequality by changing his designation as "chairmiR" and that of the clerk as "writeN" !!!!!!

[cmlover]

My b-i-l who could not brook inferiority complex used to call his junior brother who passed his MBBS as 'doctoN'

[arasi]

I've heard 'contracton'. That's because a superior is superior, an inferior is inferion