Radel shruthi box

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 27 Jun 2009, 20:51

Namaste to all the members of rasikas.org. This is Radhika from Radel Electronics - the pioneer in the field of digital and electronic musical instruments for Indian music.
Do visit our website www.radel.in to know all about our latest models in the tambura, sruti box, talometer, veena, tabla, lehra and swarmandal ranges apart from our music trainer, the Swaravali dx, which is a 3-in-1 product - a sarali-to-alankaram exercise generator (with multiple choices of speeds, groups etc), a sruti box, a basic talometer all rolled into one.
Many people are unaware of our various models.
I would be glad to answer any queries on this forum.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Jun 2009, 22:15

Radhika-Rajnarayan wrote:This is Radhika from Radel Electronics - the pioneer in the field of digital and electronic musical instruments for Indian music.

...Sruti Box Wars comes to rasikas.org!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 27 Jun 2009, 22:45

Radhika-Rajnarayan wrote: I would be glad to answer any queries on this forum.

Why would not you answer emails to you through your website about problems with your sruthi box? You put a rubber stamp in your invoice that once sold cannot be returned or replaced? What kind of guarantee you provide? Do you believe in after sales service or your sale is based on cash and wash?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Jun 2009, 00:59

You put a rubber stamp in your invoice that once sold cannot be returned or replaced?

And it's about time that the Indian consumer started storming premises and throwing that stamp away!

I wonder how many companies that use it also have a copy of Gandhi's comments about the customer on their wall?

Consumer Power! Yeah!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Jun 2009, 02:13

caveat emptor

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 28 Jun 2009, 14:27

Btw, why are threads on sruti boxes in the technical section?
I would have thought they belong under the General discussions area.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 01 Jul 2009, 19:25

Radhika-Rajnarayan wrote:The Swaravali dx, which is a 3-in-1 product - a sarali-to-alankaram exercise generator (with multiple choices of speeds, groups etc), a sruti box, a basic talometer all rolled into one.

Hi,

what is multiple choice of groups..? jAthi..?

And can one generate saralis which are in tisram, khaNDam etc..?

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 02 Jul 2009, 09:38

Answers to various questions:
1. To VK Raman - Sir, May I respectfully submit that Radel always answers every query received on its website. This is just another forum where people may ask and clarify their doubts. We offer a 3-year warranty on all our products. We provide excellent after-sales service too, and that too for many years after the expiry of warranty, as hundreds of our customers can vouch. The stamp that says 'goods once sold cannot be exchanged or replaced' is a pre-emptive legal measure that we unfortunately have had to resort to, to prevent frivolous and fraudulent returns of goods. However, within a limited time period, and in genuine cases, we do exchange products in case the customer wishes to do so. There is no need for you or other members to make snide comments such as 'caveat emptor' or 'storm the premises and throw the stamp away' etc.
2. To Keerthi - It is not 'multiple choice of groups' but, multiple choices, such as selecting a single varisai to play at 1 speed repeatedly, or, selecting a single varisai to play 3 speeds repeatedly, or, selecting the entire group pf exercises (such as the entire group pf sarali or jantai or alankaram) to play at 1 speed or the entire group in 3 speeds.
Since this is a training tool for beginners, we have provided limited options of (a) editing the ragam in which the exercises can be played and (b) creating your own pattern. If you enter a single pttern such as SA-RI-GA-RI-SA then this pattern will repeat over the octave through the arohanam and avarohanam. Providing too many options would make the product confusing for the user. You could always sing varisais in various nadais to the accompaniment of a telometer, where these options are provided.
3. To Nick - No question of sruti box wars. In fact, as you are all aware, Radel is the only company that is visible for customers to contact ( and convenient to even take pot-shots at!!

) and has been so for the past 30 years.
WE are transparent and completely committed to the customer. I am afraid that the 'competition' we face is more like guerilla warfare!!
So go ahead, do ask your questions!
4. To ragam-talam - I posted this here as our products are related to the technical side of music in 2 ways - these are products using technology to improve the quality of our music through tools that aid and improve performance, and also, these products can address many technical issues such as maintaining a steady tempo etc. The moderator may choose to move the topic elsewhere.
Cheers!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 02 Jul 2009, 14:54

3. To Nick - No question of sruti box wars.

Your post appeared shortly after a competing manufacturer's product was discussed.

Of course I'm prepared to believe this was a coincidence, thought the use of the word "original" made me think otherwise.

I am happy to hear your view of commercial ethics, although the tail told in this thread:

http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... tuffs.html

is not quite so encouraging.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 02 Jul 2009, 18:07

I am afraid that the 'competition' we face is more like guerilla warfare!!

That's a cheap shot indeed.
Have you tried out the the newly introduced product line from Eswar? (this is mentioned in a parallel thread here) If you have, we would love to hear your expert comments. If not, then please don't call your competition 'guerillas'. You don't enhance your reputation by making such statements.
Thank you for your cooperation.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Jul 2009, 21:46

Just a clarification: Radhika posted about Radel in the thread on Eswar. Nick quipped 'Sruthi box wars' in that context. I decided to split the Radel posts to a separate thread. Nick's post also came along with that. That spitting of context may have caused some confusion.

r-t, given the above, the 'guerilla warfare' is in that context, let us give the benefit of doubt to Radhika that it was just colorful language. My intention is not to defend Radhika, but since I broke the context which led to this, I feel responsible a little bit.

Now, Radhika, why do you call Radel as transparent and open and others 'hiding and 'attacking''? If you meant it seriously, you can explain. ( 'attack' in the business strategy sense )

I have a question on my own. This is not just about Radel but in general how price sales are conducted. Radel sruthi boxes were on sale at one of the leading shops in Mylapore during the December season. Someone mentioned it to me and I think I went there on January 4th or something. The gentleman there said the sales are over the previous day and now we are back to the original price. I asked him if he can honor the sales price ( I was buying a couple of the more expensive ones so I figured it did not hurt to ask ). He said he can not do that and said something to the effect that it is more a Radel policy. Normally, if the goods are on consignment, they would be more than willing to accommodate sales prices of the past few days if enquired since they make pragmatic decisions and not some 'rule based' decisions.

My question is, are such "season" sale prices usually determined by Radel or by the individual shops?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Jul 2009, 01:30

Thank you for clarifying the context; I was a little confused!

Sruti wars, then, it is... as the intention was to bring Radel boxes to the fore in a thread discussing another, new, manufacturer.

Pr work, Radhika, ha to be handled very carefully, as Skoda have learnt in a popular India Motoring forum.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Jul 2009, 01:54

Radhika: Thanks for taking the time to answer. I am confused how a customer who spent money on a product could be frivolous and fraudulent in returning the product. Do you mean to say that customers buy your products with intent to sue you so it is necessary to take "preemptive legal measures".

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jul 2009, 14:36

VK - I would argue that if Radel's post was in the same thread as Eswar's, then their 'guerilla' charge is even more insidious! As Nick pointed out, her post came soon after Eswar's under the same thread. The only possible conclusion one can arrive at is that it was directed at Eswar and their products.

(No, I don't work for Eswar!

)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Jul 2009, 15:22

I am confused how a customer who spent money on a product could be frivolous and fraudulent in returning the product.

I am all for consumer power, and I very much want to see more of this in India. I have recently argued with a computer parts company, because they will not take back a recently-purchased but failed item, telling me, instead, that I must take it to the manufacturer's agent for repair. I want to see a future in which the deal, and the interest, does not end when the till is closed on my money, but the retailer takes responsibility. Many think there is nothing in it for them, they are only interested in today's rupee --- they do not think of the value of tomorrow's rupee, and customer loyalty.

But... on the other hand... there are unscrupulous customers too, and we cannot pretend that there are not.

Oh well, it's an imperfect world!

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 03 Jul 2009, 15:57

My reply to Nick and ragam-talam: I posted my first introduction in the thread related to the new product 'Eswar' - not with the view of confronting the new product or the promoters - indeed, we welcome competition as a stimulus to create better products - but because I have been referred to rasikas.org by your old members Jeyaraaj and Jaysri Krishnan, and was not sure if we would be viewed favourably as a commercial organisation participating in a forum of your kind. However, when I saw the post on Eswar, I was emboldened to join the forum. That is all. So, since that post was on related products in the category described, I posted mine. I should have perhaps made a 'new post'? 'post new topic'? Something like that? Instead of posting it under the last post on the same thread?I sincerely apologise, it was an unintended error. I did not realise that it would stir up a hornet's nest!
I have replied to the thread you have shown a link to where some people have complained about service. You can view my reply there.
Regarding the guerilla charge - I am afraid the unfortunate fact that I posted on the same thread has caused this confusion - I was not at all referring to Eswar, who are open about their identity, but to others in the market who do not identify where the product is made, who is the manufacturer and whether the manufacturer can be contacted in case of complaints. All our products have all this information printed on the product as well as the user manual, plus all info about the company and the promoters is available on the website.
To ragam talam and Vasanthakolkilam- Sir / madam, it is not a cheap shot, it is a bitter fact that we have been facing for the past several years. The shot about guerilla warfare is valid on several fronts - these 'unknown' manufacturers evade every single tax and the entire margin is available for the dealers and agents to enjoy. We pay a multitude of taxes simply because we are open and transparent in our dealings. This is only one of the points. Nothing is known about the origin of the product, the manufacturer etc -this is my meaning in using the term the guerilla warfare. As I mentioned earlier, nothing was directed at the new product Eswar. I have neither seen nor heard the new product (apart from seeing it on the internet) so cannot comment at all on it.
V K Raman - we HAVE faced such frivolous customers and had bad experiences - we would not protect ourselves with a statement without reason. All products you buy in the market are protected by this statement on the bill. And to repeat myself, in many genuine cases, we do exchange products. For example, a student comes to our shop and buys a certain model - the teacher sends her back saying that it is the wrong model, and to get model x. We always oblige. SImilarly if within a reasonable time a customer returns saying that he / she prefers another model we oblige.
To Vasanthakokilam - season sales are mutually agreed upon by the dealers and Radel - both the quantum of discount and the period. However, we do not and never have enforced any hard and fast rules regarding extending discount to customers at any time. The dealer is free to offer any discount he wishes throughout the year, we have no say in the matter at all. Sometimes dealers play these games to avoid giving a discount and conveniently put the blame on the company.
Finally, I am saddened to find this level of hostility to Radel and my post. I am even more saddened to see not one response appreciating anything done by Radel at all. 30 years of innovation and path-breaking research, 30 years of blood, sweat and tears (literally, you'd be surprised to know!) in building a world-class organisation in reaching out to thousands of musicians and students of music - and not one kind word .... That's an eye-opener!
We have always been 100 percent committed to our customers, and will continue to serve our customers as best we can. I was under the impression that I could clarify customers' doubts through this forum, as I have done above.
If my explanation is accepted by the forum, I would like to move towards more useful discussions on any other questions.
If my posts are unwelcome, please let me know so that I may remove my membership from the forum.
Namaskars again to all of you.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Jul 2009, 16:16

No need to feel upset about frank discussions. We do not encourage promotion of commercial products at this Forum. Nor do we endorse any products. Since you posted 'technical' information this discussion is taking place. Customers who are dissatisfied will normally vent their feelings. Those who are satisfied won't. I myself have two of Radel shrutis which work OK. I am not overly enthusiastic since the sound quality is not quite up to my expectations. Mind you I am not complaining! This Forum is for exchange of useful information on CM and for advancements in CM. We do not force anyone to stay in the Forum if they are not happy! If you wish to exchange information and receive feedback on your product without a commercial angle you are most welcome to stay and participate in the discussions!

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 03 Jul 2009, 18:17

Radhika-Rajnarayan wrote:Finally, I am saddened to find this level of hostility to Radel and my post. I am even more saddened to see not one response appreciating anything done by Radel at all. 30 years of innovation and path-breaking research, 30 years of blood, sweat and tears (literally, you'd be surprised to know!) in building a world-class organisation in reaching out to thousands of musicians and students of music - and not one kind word .... That's an eye-opener!

I think that this is not a fair statement which is based purely on the response elicited in this thread. You need to go through the various topics where Radel has been discussed earlier in "Rasikas". (Type "Radel" and hit the search option). One such response congratulating Radel is in the link below. And there are the "not so appreciative" responses too which you must take in your stride.

http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... ca-p2.html

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Jul 2009, 18:18

I should have perhaps made a 'new post'? 'post new topic'? Something like that? Instead of posting it under the last post on the same thread?I sincerely apologise, it was an unintended error. I did not realise that it would stir up a hornet's nest!

Then please accept my sincere apologies for being the hornet! Jumping to conclusions is the easiest thing in the world to do, and I did it.

I'm sure that there is plenty of appreciation for your company and your product; remember that it is always those with a complaint who are most likely to be vocal, as CMLover has said.

CMLover has expressed the "offical" view of the forum as to the commercial angle. I see you have already participated elsewhere in the forum, and I very much hope you will continue to be our valued fellow member.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 03 Jul 2009, 18:23

Thanks to Nick and cienu - the moderator has taken care to move the topic into a separate thread - thanks for that.
Radel welcomes all constructive criticism - in fact many improvements and even new products have been born of these.
Of course, I appreciate cmlover's view too, which is why I had hesitated to join the forum in the first place ....this discussion is rapidly turning into a 'there's a ho-o-o-le in the bucket' type of comedy!!

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 03 Jul 2009, 18:25

Maybe most of you don't know the reference to 'the hole in the bucket' - It's a crazy comedy western pop song, popular in the '50s and '60s.
Please let me know - I'll send you the entire crazy sequence to lighten up the atmosphere!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jul 2009, 19:07

Hole in the bucket... I'm fixing a hole! I am lightened up already

I am happy to see posts by CM related product makers. Radhika, perhaps you can try out a survey on this forum on what features members here would like to see in some of your products, e.g. sruti boxes.
You may receive some valuable information, given that we have enlightened rasikas (and a few performers too!) in this place.

And as the saying goes: let bygones be bygones. We welcome your input - as much as Eswar's and others'.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jul 2009, 19:56

Re: customers being able to return products etc...
I have seen people returning smashed tennis rackets to Wal-Mart, and the service rep coolly giving a refund for the item without batting an eyelid. Given their clout, a company like Wal-Mart can afford to be this customer friendly I suppose. (They just pass on the costs to their suppliers.)
But a company like Radel in the Indian market may not be able to do the same. But being better than other companies in customer service can provide you that edge and long-term loyalty, which could be your USP when compared to those guerilla outfits out there! Just a thought you may want to consider.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:48

Radhika is not shy of confronting head on and I like that in a business personality

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Jul 2009, 23:18

...Dear Liza, a hole

Radhika, what have you done! I'm going to have that in my head now until I go to sleep!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Jul 2009, 00:25

I bought a Radel talameter last year that promptly went up in smoke when I plugged it in in Singapore, and wrote to both Radel and the retailer (Saptaswara) about the problem, and Saptaswara got me an instant replacement and Radel e-mailed me frequently to ensure I got a replacement. I was thoroughly pleased by the service offered by both companies.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 04 Jul 2009, 01:05

nick H wrote:I'm going to have that in my head now until I go to sleep!

This one is for you, Nick! Sweet dreams...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTeWGD4Q9T4

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 10 Jul 2009, 09:40

I would like to share some information with members of rasikas.org and anyone who has Radel products(new models) - you can see demonstrations of various functions of each model by going to Youtube and typing in the name of the model (eg Saarang Magic or Talometer or Sunadavinodini veena). This is helpful for clearing doubts on various functions (like - how to set 2-kalai on Talometer, or - how to move the 5th note on the Saarang MaestroS before or after the Panchamam)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Jul 2009, 09:49

Thanks Radhika. Sounds very good. Great way to use youtube.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 15 Jul 2009, 09:55

Dear members,
Here is a tip on using the Saarang MaestroS - If you want to adjust the PA/MA/NI to a level other than the standard tuning provided (there are some who want to set their own 'MA' or 'NI' tuning) - use this tip - set the PA/MA/NI setting to 'OFF' where you get only the 3 'SA' notes. Then switch on the 5th note and tune it as desired.
Easy!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Jul 2009, 10:22

Radhika: I have a MaestroS, ( I do not use that a lot that is a different story

). I remember vaguely that I tinkered with some settings but I am not sure if I had changed any tuning and saved them permanently. Is there a way to bring all the settings to factory settings, just to be sure?

BTW, I did not know about more than half the features it has. I learnt a few things watching the youtube videos.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 15 Jul 2009, 14:18

Dear Vasanthakokilam,
There is no 'factory setting' as such. Whatever sruti you set it to, gets 'auto-saved' after 8-10 secs. The standard pitch settings are already embedded in it - like C, C#, D, D# etc. These cannot get corrupted. So you just need to select any pitch you want (or fine tune it to 'in-between' levels) and use it for 10 secs - bingo- your selected pitch is auto-saved.The very reason for the videos is that many people don't know about many features (though all of them are detailed in the user manual). Thus they miss out on utilizing it to the full capacity. Glad they are of use.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Jul 2009, 20:33

Radhika:

>So you just need to select any pitch you want (or fine tune it to 'in-between' levels) and use it for 10 secs - bingo- your selected pitch is auto-saved

That was actually my question. If I turn the fine tube knob when it is in, say C#, what does it actually change ( especially when it auto saves )? If I turn it off and come back to C#, is the C# now the changed C# or the 'factory' C#'. If this question does not make any sense, let me know, I will dust off my MastroS, play with it and ask it more intelligently. I have not used in a few months.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 15 Jul 2009, 21:06

Yes, that's what I mean. It's the changed C#. So you switch on the Maestro, select the pitch (say C#), then decide you want it just a little higher, go to the mode button, press once, display flashes, press up twice - say you are happy with the pitch now --(by the way, what knob are you talking about? there are 3 knobs - on-off / tone control, volume, and one for the 5th string! No knob for pitch selection in the Maestro)----anyway, 10 seconds are over and it's playing at the newly selected and fine-tuned pitch - then you switch it off. When you switch on again, this newly tuned pitch will play. If you want the standard C#, press the down arrow button - once - (remember, you had raised it fronm C#) and you get the standard C#.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Jul 2009, 08:42

I meant the mode button and not the knob, sorry.

Well, that was many moons ago and I do not know how far I moved the pitch and even which one. That is why I was interested in a clean reset back to the so called 'factory settings'.

In your example, we pressed up twice to get to a desired pitch and then to bring it down to the standard C#, we are pressing it down once. I am confused. Or pressing it down once without pressing the mode button is what brings it down to the 'standard C#'. Sorry for being a pest... since the sruthi box is my reference I do not want that to be in some odd state due to my playing around with it a few months back.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 16 Jul 2009, 09:40

No trouble at all, please don't apologise. It is my pleasure.

Regardless of how many times you pressed the 'up' or 'down' arrow key in fine tuning mode to fine tune the instrument, just pressing it once (either up or down) in the normal mode (not fine tuning), will play and display the standard pitch setting. Keep it on for 10 seconds and the standard pitch is set to that level (say standard C#).

So I hope all this experimentation helps you re-start the music practise! Which is the whole point of these Radel products.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Jul 2009, 09:58

Radhika: OK, that answers my question. Thanks. I now feel better that I can not screw up the standard sruthis beyond repair and that there is a way to get them back to the original settings.

>So I hope all this experimentation helps you re-start the music practise! Which is the whole point of these Radel products.

Ha.. ha... I wish.. This is same as paying the gym dues and not going to the gym. I am a bit better on the gym front now and next in line is to dust off the MaestroS and let it hum.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 03 Aug 2009, 14:55

Earlier in the discussion there was a suggestion that I could have a survey of Radel products on the rasikas forum. This is just to inform you that we have redesigned our website and you can send in your comments directly on the website on this link:
http://www.radelindia.com/CustomerSupport.aspx

Comments / suggestions / queries / doubts related to the website, products or our service or even our dealers' service, are welcome.
Welcome to our 'new online home' - our new web site!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Aug 2009, 18:11

I encourage everyone who is using Radel to participate in this survey