sangitha kalanidhi 2024

[sam]

Currently, TMK is said to be touring USA and giving about 15 concerts in various venues.
Does it mean that CM is being appreciated by non' indian , non'- south indian diaspora? Leave alone, the white, colored, hispanic native citizens of USA.?
Hardly.
There are reportedly many lakhs of indian diaspora in USA.
Immigrants from south indian states form a considerable percent and are generally very wealthy and influential.
There must be many thosuands of tambrams in each metropolitan centre..
Among non-tambrams, there is much indifference if not hostility to CM .
.
The concert hall is said to be jampacked. But what is the social composition of the audience?
How many whites? Native americans? North indians?
Nb tamils?

[shankarank]

and me thinks thats what TMK refers to brahminization of/by MS

If a particular identity was denigrated , what will any one do?

Also according to U.N resolution on cultural rights [:cough:. :cough:] cited by TMK in a tamizh channel interview, any human can subscribe to any culture of their choice. I.E cultural conversion is OK!

Religious conversion of course , you don't even need UN resolution to give you any right!

[sankark]

and me thinks thats what TMK refers to brahminization of/by MS

If a particular identity was denigrated , what will any one do?

Also according to U.N resolution on cultural rights [:cough:. :cough:] cited by TMK in a tamizh channel interview, any human can subscribe to any culture of their choice. I.E cultural conversion is OK!

Religious conversion of course , you don't even need UN resolution to give you any right!

if a mylapore manirangu mAmA suddenly wants to be a YT/IG gAnA "mUkkula vittEn kuththu pAru en geththu" mAmA, that may not be the right cultural appropriation, conversion. so one has to be fluent and very nimbly adoptive in the prevalent in-thing preferred cultural appropriations & conversions to chart the course in these turbulent waters.

[sankark]

Currently, TMK is said to be touring USA and giving about 15 concerts in various venues.
Does it mean that CM is being appreciated by non' indian , non'- south indian diaspora? Leave alone, the white, colored, hispanic native citizens of USA.?
Hardly.
There are reportedly many lakhs of indian diaspora in USA.
Immigrants from south indian states form a considerable percent and are generally very wealthy and influential.
There must be many thosuands of tambrams in each metropolitan centre..
Among non-tambrams, there is much indifference if not hostility to CM .
.
The concert hall is said to be jampacked. But what is the social composition of the audience?
How many whites? Native americans? North indians?
Nb tamils?

One very (very very) uncharitable or cynical (why not both) take on the CM is less diverse/casteist: there isn't much clamor for CM (classical or carnatic) anyways; the other custodians of the yore have moved off the pasture in search of whatever; neither is it going to be a popular thing; so lets make noise that will atleast give some publicity and SJW awards. We can keep crying (would it be too much to call it grifting?) till kalki deigns to come in, no need to identify new causes either going forward

Then there is also the "dammmit-why-can't-more-people-just-flock-to-such-a-grand-musical-system complex" explanation too.

[rajeshnat]

V Srinivasan (Cienu)this is lovely part of your whole text

The below is like MS amma singing shyama sastri swarajathi in yadukulaKambOdhi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Krishna had boycotted the academy and other sabhas in Chennai since 2015, saying the world of Karnatik music is “socially stifling and narrow with all of us unable to see that this art must be made accessible to the larger society and welcoming of it”. It is truly mind boggling what drove such a protocol-driven institution as The Music Academy to waive the rules for a person who had refused to perform for it for almost a decade!"

The below is like MS amma singing shyama sastri kanakashaila viharini in punnagavarAli
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some well-wishers recommended legal recourse but on second thoughts we decided against it as the judicial process would not only consume time but also provide the oxygen of negative publicity for Krishna."

Let us all cut the oxygen ,he has stirred in all directions . But the fact is some one will find his sincerity like fighting for other communities as one community is closed etc which is partly true . There is way too much oxygen available for TMK.

Cienu was an electric semmangudi and musiri madhyamakalam in raising above points.

The below is like me adding MS amma say singing sadguru Thyagaraja endarO mahAnubhAvulu in shree ragam
-------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there is one more protocol that was stated in this forum some time back where two living sangeetha kalanidhis have to nominate . We would love to hear who are those two mahanubhavulu's who nominated TMK or was this protocol skipped this year.

[sam]

Sankark
Perhaps, knowledgeable rasikas families from chennai have already gone abroad,??
..
The first Tamil Province Sangeet Conference was held at the Second Self-Esteem Conference held at Erode (12 May 1930). More than 4000 men and women gathered and enjoyed. Mr. to the conference. K. Ponnaiah presided and Ariathor delivered the lecture. Prominent musical geniuses like Kanchipuram Nainapillai, Chidambaram K. participated in the conference. Ponnaiah Pillai, Keevalur Meenakshi Sundaram Pillai, Thiru Vivimalai Sami Nathapillai, Salem Palaniswami Chettiar are in a long list;
.

[sankark]

Sankark
Perhaps, knowledgeable rasikas families from chennai have already gone abroad,??

no idea; could be but not all.

IMNSHO: carnatic music or any classical art form wasn't/isn't/won't a mass thing; rather a niche thing - both rasikas (and that is also a big spectrum) and patronage; wishing that it were more popular is like wishing Chennai were pleasant rather than hot from panguni to aani; one can certainly wish.

another thing I don't totally buy in: people taking CM in cinema in 1930-50's ruling the roost only look at C aspect; forgetting orchestration, catchy tunes, lyrics and a new novel medium itself (cinema) etc. May be that was the only thing available for masses then other than live drama troupes. now its not so - there are so many channels to while/spend the time , isn't it?

[sam]

Sankark
I think cenema had a big role .. GNB, Musiri, MVI, ..MS, NCV, DKP, MLV, Radha Jayalakshmi, . Dandapani desikar, Kbs ,as background music vocalists if not as actors even.
Jesudas.
.Even present day stars , i think like bombay jayasree, and TMK
.atleast in kerala. Nithyasri.
.
.

her first film opportunity in 1938 – Seva Sadanam. The success of the film further heightened MS’ popularity and when the December Music Season of 1939 came around, her concert at the Music Academy on 30th December necessitated extraordinary police bandobust. The crowds would simply not keep away from her.

The Gramophone Company of India had advertised MS’ gramophone records on the front cover of the Music Academy’s souvenir that year. This was an unprecedented honour. Gate collections were great, with audiences at the Senate House, the venue of the Academy’s conference that year, from six in the morning. There was a great crowd to listen to MS that evening and even the cavernous hall was filled to capacity. Audiences had overflowed to the double winged staircase that led to the upper floor and the balcony beyond. The doors could not be closed and those outside clamoured to be allowed in. As the nightingale sang, organisers had a tough time in sending away those who could not get in. The next day The Hindu published an apology on behalf of the Music Academy to the public for the poor organisation that led to the chaos

This from sriramv on MS just after sevasadhanam in 1938. It was not a romance film but had a number of classical songs.
.
The public were indeed receptive to good music?

.

.

[shankarank]

A) Fishermen folk in the Ennore area of Chennai probably belong to a few select communities and I can almost bet my life that there are no Brahmin fishermen in Ennore who venture out into the sea. If there was a FisherMan Krishna (FMK) among them, who says “We are denying Brahmins an opportunity to come and practice our art/trade/livelihood”, I wonder how the other fishermen would react? Surely, they are not denying Brahmins to take up this art/trade/livelihood. Would they be equally culpable?

TMK is studying the history using a Lens. His grand uncles TTV and TTK even though so privileged enough, were content with music happening only in Mylapore and surrounds and did not venture out to create additional Sabas in even other suburbs of Chennai, let alone Fisherman colony. That is or must be truly his accusation. OK there were many Sabhas created by others, but not truly as erudite and prestigious like, the Music Academy or its potential un-created branches or franchises, can they be? That is actually his pet peeve! Damn, they should have had a resident academy , resident with musicologist doing rAga lakshanam discourse next to every Prestige cooker show room in Madipakkam and beyond!

B) Similarly, if there was a Christian Missionary Krishna (CMK) or just a Plain Muslim Krishna (PMK) ... Could they even come up with a practicable solution to this ‘problem’ even if they wanted to? Would they even see it as a problem in the first place?

You have not heard of conversion? They have a millenniums long plans in action.

Point 2: Can music exist without lyrics? – Yes and No. Yes - because you have instrumental music, alapana, (which also exists without an explicit rhythm, albeit a kalapramanam) and tanam. No - because the lyrical association enhances the music, the aesthetics and the imaginations of the listener in most cases. It is very abstract. If a reasonably good singer sings the whole of “Evvari Maata” (Khamboji) as “aaa aaa aa aaaa aaaa”, I wouldn’t be able to stand it!

That is your conditioning! You are focused only on you! And you are also extending to other humans potentially without asking them or conducting a fact finding mission and basic research! Yes, the amount of patronage we have extended to instrumental music proves your point. Yet, the instrumentalists, like unthinking sheep are only trying to play the melody taken from compositions unable to come out of it. The instrumentalists have no story of their own, says TMK. They find out who are the star singers of the "current times" and what are their hit compositions and learn it and design their renditions. This bit of information is available from "Sanjay Shorts" in youtube on Vid N. Ramani.

My counter story is that "Language is music"! When TMK said Suprabhatam is a musical downfall for MSS, he did not factor in the music of the language, the meter and flow. Even though only 3 svaras are used. Oh! The musicologist said “Mridangam is NOT music. It is merely entertaining that’s all”. That is foundational achievement of this “Madras Music Academy” of their talks on music for almost a century, after Smt. dhanammAL heckled them – “What! Are they going to talk about music?”

Point 3: Singing on Gods of other religions or other ‘leaders’ just to prove a point or just to throw a petty challenge to someone that if you can sing on Krishnar, I can sing on Karthar.

That has already been composed and done , almost in the subsequent decades of Sri Tyagaraja himself, in Tanjore itself. But why should those of Indian traditions be forced to listen to them? Especially when the faiths themselves falsify any other faith. But not simply any other faith, but make specific statements in public spaces falsifying the native faiths. When I say native faiths, I include all aboriginal faiths including that practiced in all continents prior to arrival of “religions” of the prior millenium. And that is not like "rAma nI samAnamevaru" or "Sabhapathikku vEru deivam samanamAguma". The latter are EkAghra cittAs expressing Bhakti, not falsifying others.

I will give you a counter-factual! There are villages so remote in the West of Madurai district, no temple culture ever set foot there, let alone any brahmin influence. The earliest genetic footprint of DNA that crossed into Australia 65 KYA (Kilo Years ago) was identified there from a person. They do have their deities they propitiate! Only feminine!
If they took a Arabhi tune from some cine song like “Eri karaiyin mElE pOravaLE peN mayile” https://www.indian-heritage.org/flmmusi ... e_tms.html and applied to one of their deity songs and sing it, Would you be offended or amused?

You will say now that all those gods are “Hindu” gods?

You know, the progressive feminists among this Dravidian movement have been now forced to trace their origins and have come around to the view that, they are the original “mother” worshipping civilization and Adi Shankara joined their mainstream by composing Saundarya Lahari! In other words, Adi Shankara “converted” himself! Before then, the Vedic traditions were patriarchal apparently. Well, it even goes to the extent of "there is no feminine deity in Rig Veda". We had our own forum scholar @RSR claiming that. Even though a simple google search will prove otherwise : https://medium.com/@ssubbanna_16058/rig ... 0e2d8a7d7b

Now enjoy these renditions of Dr HMB composition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJwA63Tpdrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzG9wt ... brahmanyan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11sONjL ... musiquebox - and this has some history of when it was composed.

And this also : https://youtu.be/PZwsuLgvzKs?t=2425 with a beautiful accompaniment by CSM in his ripe age, but retaining exhuberance and the vibrance. Musical Mridangam!

At least we can be happy now that they are inclusive to include “Adi Shankara” in their mainstream! Bhagavt pAda himself says he is drAviDa Sishu after all.

[shankarank]

On the village deities there is now a deconstruction happening on the Dravidian platform. Those deities apparently perpetrate casteism. So, Narayana Guru , says Suki Sivam , wanted the village populace to come to bigger temples to pull away from caste perpetrating kula devatas.

So the government can control and loot centrally, instead of leaving alone what was otherwise an autonomous form of worship. In most instances served by priests outside of Brahmin or other traditional priestly community. A colleague of mine from Aranthangi also mentioned, that the original priest couldn't hold on to the duty and they had to get a Gurukkal community person to continue the affairs.

The deities were feminine in the center of the village, and protective ayyanar (male) on the boundaries. When I saw a feminist exchange on twitter, I could not but remember this structure. Refrains a man, "I miss those days when women reared children, cooked and cleaned the house" with a retort from likely a feminist "I yearn for those days when Men went to war to fight and die". We Brahmins never fought and were taken over by Gandhian non-violence as the native fighters were denuded of their power by then becoming indigent pensioners. So, we don't even have the instincts to defend our own past.

There is only a limited instance of a Brahmin warrior called Dalavai Rampaiyyan during Nayak rule : https://docplayer.net/140335420-Chapter ... eriod.html . I remember the name since this story was a historical novel of Nayaks by Chandilyan or somebody.

And Brahmin landlords cycled for miles to attend to agricultural management of their land holdings once cycle was available - early 20th century on.

This is very similar to the deconstruction of music happening. First you say these compositions are Bhakti , making it exclusive etc. I think these YACM clique, some of them were piqued by Smt. Aruna Sairam and the band wagon of rasikas going in frenzy to listen to her Abhangs - again all composed by Non Brahmin saints, even critiquing Brahminism sometimes, but embedding in them philosophical tenets along with devotional expression. The YACM Clique, could not bear it.

This must be the trigger for the whole thing. If her music is deficient in art, critique her and goad her to improve her art, which I have done in this forum. Instead, one of them went on to question everything from Bhakti on down!

It started with Courtesan music, male domination of music etc. How MSS music became sad (read Bhakti here!)

Then on the musicology side, with "Mridangam is not music". I challenged it here : https://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24554. Then it goes onto "A Brief history of Mridangam makers" bringing in their Christian identity and Dalit fault lines.

Then amplifying the oft parroted "Indian music is rAgA music" citing Hindustani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganga-Jamuni_tehzeeb culture and blaming the Bhakti as a "rut" into which Carnatic music was taken, losing its artistic expression.

"Raga" is a nice artifact to steal to show case in art galleries you see. It has emotional contours that has potential to aesthetically appeal to the International elitistic "art" market , which also by the way launders money buying paintings. Once rAgA is taken, the "beats" can then be deconstructed with a balance of support for native "folk" arts , with the drums being beaten there. You cannot easily take the percussion with Carnatic identity in a pure way. Beating on Skin drums is a primitive act in the eyes of a sophisticate westerner, especially if done by a native person. Their classical music does not have much of percussion, it has Piano right? It already took a special metallic route with Ghatam mixing with Tabla, Guitar and Violin/Mandolin/back to Violin now.

Our own half educated were not so far from that. A doordarshan lady interviewer ( I think as part of Bala Brahmam program organized by Ramji of apasvaram fame ) , was asking a young kid Mridangam player: "Ennappa unakku thaTTaratellaam piDikkuma? ePPadi idukku vanda?" Translation : " Do you like beating on stuff , how did you come to doing this?" as if playing percussion is an exotic primitive (read tribal) act to be observed in an urban school going child!

Why is only "Mridangam", made by Christian Dalits, after all with cows killed, having a Proscenium stage with Gauravam and all that? Same with Bharat Natyam! How can some Sadir dance enjoy proscenium stage , appropriated etc., when koothu and yaksha gana are performed in the streets?

Palghat Mani Iyer et. al, started with playing in Village environs only and ended up with Music Academy only because those spaces vanished gradually! By the time he got his Sangita Kalanidhi, Dravidian forces were in power and movies denigrating the tamil culture alongside the associated Brahmin culture were made. After that all musicians took recourse to the Sabha system to gain recognition, based on which they got calls from Villages and semi urban centers, sporadically to perform.

So, the deconstruction of Carnatic music is complete.

[ganesh_mourthy]

shankarank,

Go on . TMK , BMK and whoever. You seem to be the lifeblood of this forum of late. We need not be on the same page and concordant always, but I thoroughly enjoy your piecemeal writing. Indefatigable. How many fingers do you have ?!! Ah no no .. .it is definitely an admiration.

[sam]

They say there is one more protocol that was stated in this forum some time back where two living sangeetha kalanidhis have to nominate . We would love to hear who are those two mahanubhavulu's who nominated TMK or was this protocol skipped this year

.
...
The list of members of the Advisory
..
committee here. Who can complain?
..
https://musicacademymadras.in/committee/

SURESH

ADVISORY COMMITTEE:
1. SANGITA KALANIDHI DR. T K MURTHY
2. SANGITA KALANIDHI SMT R VEDAVALLI
3. SANGITA KALANIDHI UMAYALPURAM SRI K SIVARAMAN
4. SANGITA KALANIDHI SRI M CHANDRASEKARAN
5. SANGITA KALANIDHI SRI T N SESHAGOPALAN
6. SANGITA KALANIDHI SRI A K C NATARAJAN
7. SANGITA KALANIDHI VALAYAPATTI SRI A R SUBRAMANIAM
8. SANGITA KALANIDHI SMT C SAROJA
9. SANGITA KALANIDHI TRICHY SRI T SANKARAN
10. SANGITA KALANIDHI TRICHUR SRI V RAMACHANDRAN
11. SANGITA KALANIDHI SMT SUDHA RAGUNATHAN
12. SANGITA KALANIDHI SRI T V GOPALAKRISHNAN
13. SANGITA KALANIDHI SRI SANJAY SUBRAHMANYAN
14. SANGITA KALANIDHI KUM A KANYAKUMARI
15. SANGITA KALANIDHI SMT ARUNA SAIRAM
16. SANGITA KALANIDHI DR S SOWMYA
17. SANGITA KALANIDHI NEYVELI SRI R SANTHANAGOPALAN
18. SANGITA KALANIDHI THIRUVAARUR SRI BAKTHAVATHSALAM
19. SANGITA KALANIDHI LALGUDI SRI G.J.R. KRISHNAN
20. SANGITA KALANIDHI LALGUDI SMT VIJAYALAKSHMI
21. SANGITA KALANIDHI BOMBAY SMT JAYASHRI RAMNATH
22. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA PROF S R JANAKIRAMAN
23. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA SRI T H VINAYAK RAM
24. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA SRI V P DHANANJAYAN
25. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA GURU SRI C V CHANDRASEKHAR
26. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA SMT SEETHA RAJAN
27. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA SMT SUGUNA VARADACHARI
28. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA DR RITHA RAJAN
29. SANGITA KALA ACHARYA DR R S JAYALAKSHMI
30. VIDUSHI DR PADMA MURTHY
31. VIDVAN SRI K N SRINIVASAN
32. VIDUSHI DR RAMA KAUSALYA
33. VIDUSHI DR T S SATHYAVATHI
34. VIDVAN DR SRIRAM PARASURAM

..

[sam]

https://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopi ... 01#p381701
Srinivasaraos explains the evoltion of Rigvedic deites and the changes in puranas later in gupta period

[sam]

There is only a limited instance of a Brahmin warrior called Dalavai Rampaiyyan during Nayak rule

:.
Shankarank
Have you read V.D.Savarkar's ' hindu pada badhshhi'? Third Panipet war?
Heroic deeds of Balajirao Peshwa?
.
Do you know that Ramappian won the war? Equally heroic exploits of the
Kilavan Sethupathy army?
Traditionally, brahmins were teachers, students, donors and recipienfs, priests and engagers of priests.
.Singing the same tune if TMK?
.

[sankark]

Sankark
I think cenema had a big role .. GNB, Musiri, MVI, ..MS, NCV, DKP, MLV, Radha Jayalakshmi, . Dandapani desikar, Kbs ,as background music vocalists if not as actors even.
Jesudas.
.Even present day stars , i think like bombay jayasree, and TMK
.atleast in kerala. Nithyasri.
.
.her first film opportunity in 1938 – Seva Sadanam. The success of the film further heightened MS’ popularity and when the December Music Season of 1939 came around, her concert at the Music Academy on 30th December necessitated extraordinary police bandobust.
The public were indeed receptive to good music?
.
.

absolutely agree to the "receptive to good music". people are receptive to good music now too; good also is a subjective definition. the good need not be carnatic". I said I don't _totally_ buy in to the CM in Cinema thing; it wasn't primarily "carnatic" that pulled the people even to cine music of 1930-50s but it was a combo of others + carnatic ragam based music as I mentioned earlier.

[grsastrigal]

சங்கீத் கலா நிதி - தேர்வு செய்யப்பட கூட்டத்தில் என்ன பேசியிருப்பார்கள் - என்று நிறைய பேருக்குத் தெரியாது.
அதனால் தோராயமாக யோசித்து நான் ஒரு கட்டுரை எழுதி இருக்கிறேன்....
தமிழ் கூறும் நல்லுலக்கு சமர்ப்பணம்

https://grsastrigal.blogspot.com/2024/03/2024.html

[sankark]

சங்கீத் கலா நிதி - தேர்வு செய்யப்பட கூட்டத்தில் என்ன பேசியிருப்பார்கள் - என்று நிறைய பேருக்குத் தெரியாது.
அதனால் தோராயமாக யோசித்து நான் ஒரு கட்டுரை எழுதி இருக்கிறேன்....
தமிழ் கூறும் நல்லுலக்கு சமர்ப்பணம்

https://grsastrigal.blogspot.com/2024/03/2024.html

thanks much for bringing on this hot chennai afternoon!

[sam]

carnatic ragam based music as I mentioned earlier.

Ok

[girish_a]

Priya sisters have posted this on Facebook (I have split the post into multiple paragraphs for easy reading):

The Unique beauty of Carnatic music lies in the Sahithyam of the innumerable compositions bestowed upon us by the great composers like Thyagarajaswamy, Muthuswami Dikshithar, Shyama Sastri, Purandaradasa, Annamacharya, Papanasam Sivan, Arunagirinathar (Thiruppugazh) and the list is endless.They were not mere humans who just wrote songs.These composers were karana janmulu born to bless this world with the treasure of sangeetham and sahithyam.

Thyagarajaswamy just sang spontaneously which is called as ‘Aasukavithvam’ meaning it flows out without any preplanning. His disciples noted down the sahithyam and passed them on to the next generations.

If carnatic music was raga based, what about Dikshithar’s Kamalamba Navavarna krithis where each krithi highlights one vibhakthi like the prathama, dwitheeya and so on? Can one sing in a raga format, the kamalamba navavarna krithis or Navagraha krithis without sahithyam? What about Neraval which is a treasured manodharma aspect of carnatic music? Research is necessary before making flippant, foolish statements,

Annamacharya krithis’ beauty and appeal lie in its sahithyam where some of the words used by the great poet are unheard of in the normal world. Coming to Thyagarajaswamy’s Sadhinchene- one of the pancharatnams in Aarabhi,while singing,the swara part is split according to the prayogams and patterns that fall in the grammatical framework of that particular ragam. Whereas, the sahithyam is split without destroying or killing the meaning of the language.

Never mislead listeners into believing that carnatic music is raga based and that sahithyam is of no importance. Just because all these compositions glorify and sing in praise of our Rama, Krishna, Govinda, Muruga, atheists suddenly want to declare carnatic music as ‘Raga based music’. Thyagarajaswamy’s compositions also talk about manava dharma and human values. We,as musicians,are what we are today only because of the works of these great vaggeyakaras and the blessings of all the deities we sing on

[sam]

With reference to previous post.
I submit that the discussion is oriented towards VOCAL MUSIC.
Granted wholeheartedly, to the importance of saahithyam in vocal music, should we not separate the base and edifice?
The same compositions in jusf lyrical form are just poems, and often poor poems at that. Nowhere near the great poetry of traditional literature in the respective languages.
.
As a formula, let us think as fillows.
.
Music, classical music,, hindusthani music, carnatic music, western classical music, tunes and notes, beats,
Theme of the lyrics, devotional, romantic, .
Orchestral.
.
Music system of India has existed for over 2000 years now. And the Trinity phenomenon happened only from 1757
To 1857.
.
Religious music as carnatic music begun by a hindu pontiff vyasaraya around 1500 in vijayanagar empire.
.
This is just history statement and not a value judgement.
.
Indian music has existed for so many
Centuries before the muslim invasion in 1300 AD.
.
srinivasaraos has written a multipart blog explaining the evolution of indian music.
Music of India – a brief outline – Part One | sreenivasarao's blog
https://sreenivasaraos.com/2015/04/21/m ... -part-one/
.
The same krithis when performed by INSTRUMENTAL MUSJCIANS, like great masters of flute, veena, violin, chitaveen, clarinet, naagaswaram, even mandolin and saxaphone...are they diluting the music?
No.
They are focusing on the raaga and beat aspect.
.
Our thyagaraja festival begins with chethulara in flute. Is it a disrespect to the essence of kruthis. ( i may be wrong)
.Naadhopaasana..?
.
When an instrumentalist or vocalist does raag aalaap, swarams and mano dharmam music, where is the lyrics, the theme or bhakthi?
.
By emphasizing the music core , than on the words of lyrics with or without the literary, thematic and possibly social and cultural aspects, we will become true rasikas. of musuc.
.
Priya sisters were disciples of RadhaJayalajshmi, i believe and they are held in high esteem .
Lately, wiki says that they trained under Prof. T.R.Subramanyam also.
What was the guidance from TRS about bhakthi in kruthis? I tend to beleve that he was more of a musicologist.
.
But are we to misuse the sacred art for illustrating the vibakthi rules of sanskrit gramar?

Or for some titillatung tillana?
.
If we insist on approaching the art of indian music, be it carnatic or hindusthani music, as bhakthi music only, and vocal music only,, is it not a narrow vision that relegates great CM and HM
INSTRUMENTAL MUSICIANS.to secondary importance?
Are they only to play second fiddle?
.
Patently wrong as we find so many sangita kalaanihis adorning the advisiry committee of MA, many of them Violinists, flute and veena players.
And mrudagam and tavil players?
.
How is it then famous vocalists like GNB, MLV, MSS were all devotees of HM Muslim vocalists?

.
Does not classical music transcend
Language, lyrics, theme in INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC.?

It does.
.
TMK is absurdly wrong if not criminally so using CM for VOCAL MJSIC with questionable lyrics. Like the downright vulgar coutesan songs.
.
TMK is wrong but the critucs too are on wrong premises.
.
If i am a christian by birth , am i permanently excluded from learning CM?
What should I do to be accepted within the CM circle?

Did any musicologist lay down the rules regarding theme?
Ssrao says pada were important and in praise of siva in some ancient texr?
Thyagaraja songs were mostly on Ram.
Is it not incongruous then?
.
When was violin accepted as a concert instrument? Is not the Sarangi more ancient!
.
This is not atall a rant of pseudo left.
But from a very much devotee of the music of thyagaraja along with the spititual message.
.
If karaharapriya song, is rendered by
NAgaswaram ariste with mastery, does it cease to be carnatic music?

.
.

[sam]

Music of India – a brief outline – Part One | sreenivasarao's blog
https://sreenivasaraos.com/2015/04/21/m ... -part-one/

[shankarank]

shankarank,

Go on . TMK , BMK and whoever. You seem to be the lifeblood of this forum of late. We need not be on the same page and concordant always, but I thoroughly enjoy your piecemeal writing. Indefatigable. How many fingers do you have ?!! Ah no no .. .it is definitely an admiration.

How did you like my Resident Music Academy Kiosk next to Prestige cooker show room? Isn't that surreal? Simply a faithful but reverse image of Music Academy and the adjoint canteen? Cooker helps you cook food! and musicology supposedly should help you cook music . eppaDI arrangment

Now I cannot but also share a joke from whatsapp world. Somebody posts about The Instant POT ( the fast cooker) in a CM whatsapp group and apologizes. Another poster quips, he/she posted in the wrong "POTTU (sounds like pATTU in tamizh)" group! . I almost did add this but do so here : "Both pOTTUs are samsAra bhanda nivariNIs, the instant one instantly so!" Well, I am restricting to only legal "POTTus"

Instant Pot was a rage during Pandemic as people discovered their self-cooking skills. So, is there a "Prestige" brand one too in India? Will at least help the cause of feminism! Even if the resident academy kiosk fails to help the cause of music! One agenda cleared!

Music can't be cooked instantly can it?

Now about by fingers - what makes you think there ain't that AI monster (PotGPT) doing it? Why it has to be just me alone? Now I am neither confirming nor denying.

[girish_a]

Watch this 30-second video to understand how deeply rooted Indian classical music is in Hinduism. Zakir Hussain, what grace and class!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64-UaEsN6rA

[sam]

80-MIRZA GALIB-URDU-BY MS
.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... urdu-by-ms .

The lyrics and translation are given
.
Allah Is mentioned.
Sorry. Error.

[shankarank]

@sam - at one point people yearned to syncretize and bond. They also did not study things closely. But now that time has passed! You know what the import of Ghazal is do you? It was always a kafir woman subject and the man of the faith!

People were in safe cultural zones, they may not have realized then!

[shankarank]

https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/ ... id/2009726

In our public discourse today, we are amidst a lot of chatter and noise. We are unable to sift out voices of sense, calmness and seriousness from within the cacophony. Unlike the situation where we are able to zero in on the voice we want to listen to, here we lose that discernment due to the emotional and mental instability that this noise creates. Noise is not just a physical phenomenon; it is psychological. When we are bombarded constantly by innumerable phrases and words from all directions that intentionally excite us and muffle our ability to listen, it is impossible to reflect.

Lets provide some help. Feed all material , from Theosophy, Annie Besant, JK down to Rishi Valley school material to PotGPT ( yes I said it - PotGPT ) . Plus all the books published during transformation.

Then feed all the noise. It will all be sifted in a breeze (Pun intended!)

Pscyho analysis never stops! Now all other people , not Just MS or Thyagaraja , are the subject of it. People don't catch all the nuances of the conversation , eh! Tcho, Tcho , now playing the nuance card and hiding behind language!

[rajeshnat]

shankarank,

Go on . TMK , BMK and whoever. You seem to be the lifeblood of this forum of late. We need not be on the same page and concordant always, but I thoroughly enjoy your piecemeal writing. Indefatigable. How many fingers do you have ?!! Ah no no .. .it is definitely an admiration.

Yes he so knowledgeably refuses to drift. Only my mind drifts . I pray he adopts silence , which deity that i should pray?@shankarank , all your favorite musician who had an eye on meter also have silence ? You have said every thing now join silence bandwagon , dont hit the submit button for some time.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Yes, masters in meandering too.

[shankarank]

Fair enough! The forumites need time for some nuanced reading and sifting Will meet Mr. Mourthy is some other thread as I am also readying some material for rasicology!

[sam]

@ganesh

@sam - at one point people yearned to syncretize and bond. They also did not study things closely. But now that time has passed! You know what the import of Ghazal is do you? It was always a kafir woman subject and the man of the faith!

?
It [[

b]i]was always a kafir woman subject and the man of the faith[/b][/i]

Not at all.
It is a general and very moving poem. Deeply philosophical.
.i made a blunder. There is absolutely no religious reference.
From your earlier posts in this forum, i understand that you are an accomplished violinist like srinathk.
Wrong? Perhaps you two are best qualified to either support or refute my request not to tie CM kruthis with vocal music, theme, prosody etc.
You may also educate us about the unifing thread between CM, HM and WCM if present.
.
As for the need to unite people of all faiths and communities, it still exists.
.
Being from the land of Sankara where roughly 30 % of people are muslims,
Another 30 % orthodox syrian catholic christians, and two major castes of hindus, unlike any other major state of India, the cultural synthesis in that state is really phenomenal.
No wonder then TMK is very popular there.
..
Pardon the rambling , (apparently) ,
The social reform method of sri. NARAYANA GURU is starkly different from that of the ideological icon if TMK.
.
GURU was not an atheist.
GURU taught sanskrit to his folloeers.
GURU installed Siva temples.
GURU installed a unique temple for SARASWATHY.
GURU taught self respect and humanism.
In short, though GURU was the guiding spirit and even a participant in VAIKKOM SATHYAGRAHA , initiated by George Joseph an ardent Gandhian,,, the credit has been hijacksd by the black shirts., in a bizare irony of histoy.
.
TMK is shamesless exhibizionist. He will sing Narayana guru in kerala and EvR in tamil state.
.
Wait and see. He may give a very much SSI like concert in his forthcoming MA event.
Or
He may give a concert without any kruthi of the trinity.


.

[thamizhisai_piriyan]

Not here to discuss the politics of the award, but to provide a brief report of his recent Boston concert (last Sunday).

He started with a Reethigowlai with a brief alapana and sang Janani Ninnivina followed by a Dikshitar krithi -- Kanakambari Kaarunya with a long alapana followed by tanam. He spent a brief while expounding on the differences between the Raagaanga Raga scheme followed by MD versus the Melakartha scheme followed by Thyagaraja and SS and how they are materially different, and hence Kanakambari is not the same as Kanakangi. For a casual listener like me, it all went a little over my head. I had heard this krithi once or twice before and thought it was kanakangi. Moving on... Followed that with a beautiful rendition of Saraguna Palimpa with extended alapana in Kedaragowlai. To me this was the highlight of the concert. The rest of the pieces were light and shortish. A poem by poet Perumal Murugan (Azhuthen Kangal Sivakka...), an interesting alternate version of the national anthem tuned by two musician friends of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose, Bruhi Mukundeti and one or two other pieces which I do not recall.

It left me, a long time fan of TMK, wanting more. But in his defense, this concert was part of a festival and regrettably the organizers were urging him to finish up, presumably to set the stage for the next sarod concert by Ken Zuckerman.

I'll put myself in the camp of people who won't stop listening to TMK any time soon.

Oh and someone asked what is the composition of the audience. Seemed to be very knowledgeable CM fans mostly. Age range was from young families with little children to many vayasana thathas and pattis. Whatever his politics are it didn't seem to deter this lot. Not many empty seats.

[sam]

Thanks for a brief note on the Boston concert.
By composition of the audience, i meant nb tamils, noth indians,, non indians.
Curious to know about the audiece for the sarod concert, immediately after TMK concert.

[kvchellappa]

Does not the Boston concert review belong to Concert. Review?

[sam]

Melody vs Cacophony:
The art of creating cultural divide by TM Krishna & Madras Music Academy
..https://organiser.org/2024/04/02/230679 ... ral-crime/

Quotes
.....
Ravikiran has actively contributed to social cohesion through initiatives such as rural music education and Melharmony programmes in Tamil Nadu, initiated since 1992. There are many other musicians li......
.
Purandara Dasa hailed as the patriarch of Carnatic music, profoundly enriched the musical landscape through his compositions and innovations. Dr. Raghuram, a violinist, highlights the spiritual depth ...

Specifically, Ravikiran highlights Thyagaraja’s condemnation of Brahmin ritualism in compositions such as “Yagnadulu,” “Manasu nilpa,” and “Teliya leru Rama.” Additionally, Thyagaraja addresses hypocr...

-Renowned violinist Vidushi Dr. Jyotsna Srikanth, bestowed with an MBE by the British government, observes prevailing gender and regional biases within the academy. She highlights the lack of support f...
for instrumentalists compared to vocalists, urging the academy to earnestly address wider representation from other states.......

/
/



.

[grsastrigal]

Interestingly, his disciple Vignesh Ishwar did not imbibe this quality of TM Krishna. T M Krishna has two parts- his strong intellect on Carnatic Music and second part, polluting it by his improper rendition. VI imbibed his first quality and done away with the second. It is nice.

In a proper way, he disobeyed/disregarded Guru's path !!!!. Having said that just anecdote from Srimadh bhagavatham,
when a Guru is suggesting a wrong path/wrong idea which is far away from bhakthi or Jnanam, (or from your conventional Goal), the shishya can disobey/disregard his Guru !!!!

Ex: Sukracharya-King Bali- Vamana avatAram. Depite Sukracharya's caution not to give dAnam to Vamana perumAl, he disobeyed. his Guru !!!

There may be some relation between this two. Just though of sharing.....

[sam]

That may not be the correct interpretation.
Naarayanyam is more sublime.
வாமன மூர்த்தி அப்போது. 'மூன்றடி மண்ணால் திருப்தி அடையாதவன், மூவுலகம் முழுதும் பெற்றாலும் மன நிறைவு பெற மாட்டான்' என்று கூறியதும், ' சரி! உன் இஷ்டம்' என்று கூறி , மஹாபலி நீர் தாரை வார்த்து வாமனர் வேண்டியபடியே தானம் செய்ய தயாரானான். அப்போது, அருகில் இருந்த குரு சுக்ராச்சாரியார், மஹாபலியைத் தடுத்து, 'வேண்டாம்! வேண்டாம்! இந்த வாமன பிரம்மச்சாரி ஸ்ரீ ஹரி என்று தோன்றுகிறது.
அனைத்தயும் கவர்ந்து கொள்வான்.' என்று எச்சரித்தார்.

31-5
' அப்படியே இருக்கட்டுமே! பகவான் மகாவிஷ்ணுவே இவ்வாறு ஒரு பிரமச்சாரி பாலகனாக வந்து, என்னிடம் தானம் பெற நான் பெரும் பேறு பெற்றவன்! கொடுத்த வாக்கிலிருந்து ஒரு போதும் பின்வாங்க மாட்டேன்'என்று கூறினான்! அவன் தங்கள் பக்தனல்லவா!

[ram1999]

.... For a casual listener like me, it all went a little over my head. I had heard this krithi once or twice before and thought it was kanakangi. .....

Now just imagine if this bloke goes and explains to the guys in the kuppam the differences and expects them to imbine , develop an interest in the classical art form and sing along with the dapan kutthus ....

[rajeshnat]

Does not the Boston concert review belong to Concert. Review?

thamizhisai_piriyan
Yes KVC suggestion is perfect .Please cut and paste(not copy and paste) and put a post in concert review ??? Let us revitalize the Concert review . Of late only I am writing most of the time, all the rest barring one poster who attends bay area no one is writing review.

[thamizhisai_piriyan]

Does not the Boston concert review belong to Concert. Review?

thamizhisai_piriyan
Yes KVC suggestion is perfect .Please cut and paste(not copy and paste) and put a post in concert review ??? Let us revitalize the Concert review . Of late only I am writing most of the time, all the rest barring one poster who attends bay area no one is writing review.

Done. And noted for future posts.

[sam]

How to slaughter a glorious poem.
.
Ms and dk roy in 1944.
The sweet version,

https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... hpa-varaan
78 rpm
.....
The slaughtered versiin by tmk.

https://youtu.be/qd2XnI2qmGQ?si=5aaFY__595VmCGKu

..

[sam]

Watch "T M Krishna Concert at LAYA MADHURAA SANGEETHOTHSAVAM 2024 held on 18th Feb at Ragasudha Hall" on YouTube
18'th Feb 2024

https://youtu.be/9YxJzxgWTyE?si=AdgAq2cKka9C2lV1
.
Can we have a concert review? From this video?

[MaamiAtHeart]

Quick two minute review - it was a lovely concert. The best was Kanakanana ruchira taken as the main - Akkarai Subbulakshmi played the swaram and TMK sang the sahityam.

[sam]

Thank vou but if we can have the full song list with timestamp in the video,
Kruthi, raag, composer etc as being done by Vaak and Naasdhabrjnga, it will gjve a better idea. Is he following the ARI pattern? ..kindly review with the video only.

[girish_a]

Sangeetha Kalanidhi goes woke.

https://thedharmadispatch.substack.com/ ... -goes-woke

[rajeshnat]

Trichur Brothers Closure Post 1 of 2

[rajeshnat]

Trichur Brothers Closure Post 2 of 2

[rajeshnat]

I wish in the above post they replaced India with Bharat. All said cogent thought process and I like the punch when they say

TM Krishna has either invented or magnified fault lines, not with the intention of closing them, but to pry them wide open,merely to sensationalize(1st post)
the false narrative that has been in propagation with neither basis nor direction nor destination(2nd post)

But still TMK in The Hindu is again getting an article one article where they say both viewpoints and then an exclusive write up only on TMK or written by TMK, let The Hindu have the guts to publish above two posts of Trichur Brothers, where they replace Bharat with India

Rajesh Prefers this

Patriotism and Love for India (not Bharat)
Carrying the mesasge of India(not Bharat) through the world of Carnatic Music

[kvjayan]

It would be instructive to know about the composition of the audience in T.M. Krishna's concerts in the North American circuit (i.e. with right mix of upper class/caste, dalits, minorities and weaker sections of society, to be politically correct). If the audience is elitist and "casteist" (as in Mylapore and T. Nagar, which the vidwan detests), one hopes T.M. Krishna has reprimanded the NA Sabha promoters about the need for equitable participation of rasikas.

[arasi]

Sam,
I listened to the Raga Sudha concert, and here is the list you asked for. Those who noted down the items, please supplement or correct the list if necessary. Quite a hefty list for him, won't you say?

Accompanists: Akkarai Subbulakshmi-violin.
B.Sivaraman-mrudangam
Chandrashekara Sharma-Ghatam.


1: padavini sadbhaktiyu sAlaga bhairavi desAdi TyAgarAja: rAgA sketch, also a quick shower of swarAs.
2 dorakunA iTuvanTi sEve Bilahari Adi TyAgarAja: Expansive rAgA, neraval and swarAs
3: Sri subhrahmanyAya kambhOdi rUpakam MD: A concise rAga and brief swarAs
4: kana kana ruchirA varALi Adi Tyagaraja: Akkarai played the rAga. Krishna sang the whole song. It was the concert's main.
5: smara sundarAnguni: paraju Adi. Subbaraya shastri.
6: eppO varuvArO? Jonpuri Adi GKB .
Krishna added here: nAn innoNNu pADiDaREn (I would sing another one).
7: entaTi kulukE kalyani rUpkam Subbaraya shastry
8: A proper mangalam and even a namaskAram from him!

[kamalamba]

Thanks @arasi ji

I listened to the full concert as well.

Absolutely brilliant.

Especially VarALi was out of the world. There are a few TMK jagadAnandakArakA versions going around and the varALi was on par with those. Not sure if there are other recordings of TMK rendering other Panchrratnams.

One final point, there was an ~12 minute speech by TiruvArUr Bhaktavatsalam, that was so nice both in content that was also injected with a wee bit of humor.

Overall brilliant concert.