kaatrinile varum geetham

CHELLAM · Post by **CHELLAM** » 22 Mar 2007, 00:04

can someone tell me the raga for this beautiful song ?
thanks

meena · Post by **meena** » 22 Mar 2007, 00:12

sindhubhairavi

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 22 Mar 2007, 00:13

It doesn't sound like Sindhubhairavi though...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCiqqFVY4Xw[/youtube]

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 22 Mar 2007, 01:02

A very lovely clip, despite the obvious glitches in audio-video synchronization. BTW, Kamala Lakshman was the krishNa to Smt. MSS' mIrA!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Mar 2007, 01:44

Though everybody claims it as sindhubhairavi it does not have the signature. They say so due to the occurrence of almost all the 12 semitones in the music!
It was just kumari kamala and laxman was yet to come

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Mar 2007, 01:57

I don't know if many people are aware that the tune of this song is a 100% imitation of an old Jutika Roy's song TuTa gayi man bInA.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 22 Mar 2007, 04:42

Lji,
Yes - Radnor Guy mentions it in his article: Kalki loved Jutika Roy's song so much, that he asked the music director (P Sivam, right?) to set 'kAtrinilE varum gItam' to the same tune!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Mar 2007, 05:44

Is an audio of the Jutika song available anywhere?

CHELLAM · Post by **CHELLAM** » 22 Mar 2007, 07:25

Well What Is The Final Verdict REGarding The Raga???
If Its Not Sindhubhairavi
What Is It Then ?
Can Someone Help??
Thanks Again

swetha · Post by **swetha** » 22 Mar 2007, 07:47

Jonpuri a maybe?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Mar 2007, 08:45

Only DRS will be able to tell us. But if you are impatient just listen to
http://www.sendspace.com/file/t170t8

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 23 Mar 2007, 03:59

The raga is Savithri, a janya of Harikambhoji. Sri TNS corrected somebody on stage last season when they said kAtrinile varum gItam is in sindhu bhairavi.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 04:28

That is interesting.
Can Lakshman provide anymore info on this new raga?

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 23 Mar 2007, 06:27

I have sAvitri as an audava-audava raga janya of melakarta 40 navanItam (s g1 m2 p d2 S, S d2 p m2 g1 s); source RagapravAham.

Sri L Shankar has given an RTP "Anandanatamadum tillai isane" in this raga , which is commercially available.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 07:35

That is equally interesting. I would love to listen to it. I quickly checked the notes of the raga which appears quite reasonable. Needs more explorations.

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 23 Mar 2007, 08:12

Here is a sampler:

http://www.amazon.com/Whos-Know-Shankar/dp/B0000261KS

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 09:41

Thanks
It is difficult to tellfrom the sample the scope of the raga! We should experiment with the aro/avaro to get a feel!

Also the original kaatrinile if based on Juthika Roy belongs more to bangla sangeet and hence the raga chaaya will be only fleeting. But the raga savithri does sound tantalizing and worth exploring on its own!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 10:03

L Shankar's Savitri kriti is available at
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/N4K ... As1NMvHdW/
Pl listen and comment!
(be prepared for the supersonics

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 10:24

Vasya
savithri is listed as the janyam of vakulabharaNam (mela 14) in
http://www.geocities.com/vasudevanvrv/c ... aagams.htm

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 18:58

Cml Sir,
This sounds like 'Bahudari' without 'Dha' in it.Is it called Savithri?Good to know.

Sarma.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 23 Mar 2007, 19:08

ksrimech wrote:The raga is Savithri, a janya of Harikambhoji. Sri TNS corrected somebody on stage last season when they said kAtrinile varum gItam is in sindhu bhairavi.

ksirmech,
I looked at the below url , where the site mentions the tamil song chithira chevvAnam sirikkakkanden is from the film kAtrinilE varum gEtham in the rAgam sAvitri. Possibly the film and song (KAtrinilE varum geetham )is what we are confusing?

But however when I hum song KatrinilE varum gEtham and the tamil song chitira chevvAnam that was sung by MSS and Vani Jayaram respectively , I am seeing a bit of similiarity there, but still not sure of the rAga.

chithira chevvAnam sirikkakkanden -kAtrinilE varum gEtham-saavitri as per the url ,
http://www.karnatik.com/filmsongs1.shtml

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 20:30

here is IR's chithira chevvanam
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/BUC ... As1NMvHdW/
though IR mangles the raga beyond recognition I see no similarity to MS's katrinile.
Here is Vani jayaram singing 'Katrinile varum geetham' for a movie
Rasikan oru Rasikai
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/8AO ... As1NMvHdW/
It does start off with SGMP,PPDS' which agrees with savithri ( as derived from vakuLAbharaNam
but no similarity to MS version. I think this is a red herring! and TNS may have gotten confused...

Sarma
I don't hear Bahudari in the MS singing at all!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:09

cml - the LShankar version is the one that has a strong bahudari (i would have guessed bahudAri if it wasnt disclosed to me it was sAvitri).

The vanijayaram one seems to have R3 along (a nATTai feel).

Neither one does seem like MSS' kATRinilE.

Arun

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:16

Cml Sir,
Which link has Mss singing?Vani Jayaram's and the Rasikan oru rasikai links suggest me of Jog.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:20

kalgada - click on the video (post #3) (even better

)

I wonder if the scale (MSS's version) is close to
S G2 M1 P D1 N2 S'
S' N2 D1 P M1 G2 S

Arun

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:35

Arun,
Post#3 looks all White to me.My crappy office doesn't allow me to open sendspace et al links.

Sarma.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:36

Sarma
click on the youtube link Jayaram has provided to listen to MS's KatrinilE.
Yes! Vani Jayaram does suggest Jog!
Here is the youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCiqqFVY4Xw
Arun
I suspect MS has more notes in her version!
That is the confusion in favour of sindhubhairavi which I don't agree!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:44

at least to me, it does have a sindubhairavi flavor to it

. It could because of all notes like sindubhairavi - but i think could also be because of which note(s) are elongated/emphasized. MSS version seems to have subtle, caressing slides (truly mesmerizing!). We could try to see if we can break it down the swaras.

Btw, can someone post the Hindi song with the original tune? Would be interesting to compare if there are differences in the delivery (i.e. subtleties underneath)

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:44

Sarma - too bad but I guess they do real work at your place

;)

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 23 Mar 2007, 21:54

i see a strong feeling of bahudAri too in the L Shankar's piece, its most probably in the janya of vakulAbharaNam. May be L Shankar created one and named it as sAvitri ?

I dble checked checked Ragapravaham, its given as janya of 40 only (original source: sangita svara prastAra sAgaram). Smt Bhagyalakshmi's Carnatic Ragas does not mention sAvitri.

arunk:
for the given scale, assuming there are no vakras in the scale itself, like dnd, mpm.. it would be gopikAvasantam.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:14

cittirac cevvAnam sivakkak kaNDEn- that is gambhIranATa isn't it?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:15

cml - you are on the right track.

I tried to break down the first 2 couple of lines and i can sense (with a bit of help of online keyboard

), S R2 G2 G3(?) M1 P D1 D2 N2 S*

(below D=>D1, G =>G2, M => M1, N =>. N2 unless otherwise stated)

Code: Select all

P..  D   N   S*  S*  NS*G*S*????  P   D(p) M  P  D2 N~~(with d2 as anuswara)
kA   .   Tri ni  lE  e....????    va  ru    m  gI . tam~~

/S* /S* N   D  P
kA  .   Tri ni lE ....

P/N N  P  G  S  R2  G/   P
kA. Tri ni lE va rum gI   tam

M  M   G? M  P   N
kaN gaL pa ni tti Da

G?: couldnt tell but seems most likely G3

Arun

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:21

DRS,
Gambhira Nata has Kakali Nishadam(N2).
cittira cevvAnam has Kaisika Nishadam(N1).

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:27

Sarma- I coundt hear N2 in the first 2 lines. Im singing to myself as I know the song. Am at work and hence unable to hear it online. If it has both N2 and N3, it is tilang. Nowhere near MSS kATrinilE varum gItam.

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:35

DRS,
Iam not able to open the MSS link..not allowed at my workplace

But this link posted by Cml Sir,has kaisika nishadam.It has 2 Gandharams but i don't see a kakali nishadam.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/BUC â€¦ As1NMvHdW/

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:35

i couldnt tell for sure but it does seem to have N2 (E! kuyila... S* S*N2*SN2*???) and there are portions where G2/R3 also is there????

Sorry if i am way off.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:37

ah i see I am not alone in that feel of G2. I also cannot yet spot places where kakali is unambiguous

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2007, 22:39

in any case MSS' kATrinele does not seem like the other 3 (LShankar, vani-jayaram, and cittiraccevvAnam). In fact to me, all 4 seem like 4 different ragas

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:02

Yes- cittiraccevvAnam has lots of N2. I could hear N3 overtones with N2 at times. It has G2 also in place. ANd some other swaras Im sure. It has a tilang feel to it- miSratilang anyone

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:09

DRS,
Is it not Jog?(With 2 Gandharams and N2)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:12

Vani Jayaram's song is nATa. It has a flavour of the other famous song- panivizhum malarvanam (calanATa)

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:12

cmlover wrote:Sarma
click on the youtube link Jayaram has provided to listen to MS's KatrinilE.
Yes! Vani Jayaram does suggest Jog!
Here is the youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCiqqFVY4Xw
Arun
I suspect MS has more notes in her version!
That is the confusion in favour of sindhubhairavi which I don't agree!

The profusion of S R3 G3 M, and P D3 N3 S in Vani Jayarams version look more nATi ish than jog to me - Anyway, with filmi versions, there is lot of liberty for the music composers

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:14

Sarma is referring to the song cittitaccevvAnam by Jayachandran i think. jOg- Im not so familiar- it isnt coming to me now. Can we have a piece which is definitely in jOg please.

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:16

Here is a jugalbandi in Jog i listen to quiten often...so relaxing.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/.Jb ... As1NMvHdW/

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:23

Jayachandran's song is based on jOg

but goes has lot of extraneous swaras coming in...

AFAIK, jOg confines itslef to

S G3 M P N2 S
S N2 P M G3 G2 S

without any dhaivata, which shows up in the song.

-Ramakriya

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:25

Ramakriya,
True.Jayachandran's song has Chatusruti Dhaivatam also at a couple of places.I think it was experimented around quite a few notes.But the overall impact was like Jog.That's what i meant.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:29

One more song in jOg from malayalam movie His Highness Abdullah

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/E4X ... As1NMvHdW/

Haven't listened to this song lately, so I do not remember if it employs filmi liberty

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:29

Jayachandran has not juxtaposed G2 and G3 they have been used at different places. Which is why I heard tilang. No need to split hairs- jOg if you like

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:31

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:33

I think all of you are right. I dont know why Sri TNS told on stage that the song was in sAvitri. It was my friend who was present in the function where Sri TNS mentioned it and not me. As people say, kAtrinilE varum gItam by MSS seems to be a classic case of Suddha hindustAni bhairavI (like the last stanza of the rAgamAlikA praLayapayOdi jalE) and not sAvitri. It could have been a total miscommunication. My apologies for passing wrong information.