Musical Morsels

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 21 Feb 2013, 21:27

T

he DK always cites
ARI for asking the T aradana to be purified after MMD sang a Tamil piece.

Yes, CML. It did happen. I remember reading it in the "Sruthi" special issue on ARI. I forgot the year. ( This is one of the reasons why I want Tamil magazines' "pokkisham" on Music alone..---we need to see how Tamil papers like Vikatan, Kalki and Dinamani cover/do not cover such incidents , in addition to other things..)

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 21 Feb 2013, 21:35

cmlover wrote:... The DK always cites ARI for asking the T aradana to be purified after MMD sang a Tamil piece. Mu Ka wrote an editorial on "TheeTTaayuDutthu.." in 1948? ...

Kudiyarasu, 1946.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2013, 21:38

Thanks Pasupathy.
Do we know subsequently any one singing Tamil in any T aradhana?
Only T songs should be sung and no elaborate neraval or swara kalpana
are the restrictions.
Are these injunctions still in vogue?
has anyone sung Kannada or malayalam ever?

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 22 Feb 2013, 10:41

I don't think anyone sang in Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada or even songs of other composers in the Aradhana after that. There was also the taboo on singing niraval, swara kalpana etc., which I personally feel is correct. These items are always sung in concerts, whereas performances at the Aradhana are not concerts but a homage to Thyagraja and in my opinion must be utilised to showcase more of his compositions. MS however, if her concert were live broadcast as a National Programme would sing niraval for at least one kriti.

There is this instance of Ariyakkudi, sometime in the 50s, objecting to MS being given a major slot in the Aradhana and her concert being broadcast as National Programme. He felt that ladies ought not to be given this privilege. He conveyed his objections to the AIR and declared that his singing at Tiruvaiyyaru should not be broadcast by AIR. Not only this, Ariyakkudi managed to get Musiri, Semmangudi, GNB and others not to participate in the Aradhana the next year. Only Chembai did not join in this tamAshA. Ariyakkudi thought that AIR could be brought around this time, unlike what happened during his earlier boycott demanding Re.1/ more than others because he was the senior most musician (More about this later). AIR Trichy station director Sarukkai Gopalan after conferring with chief producer T.Sankaran, spoke to then I&B Minister Kelkar, got his approval and engaged Nagaswara vidvans like TNR, Tiruveezimizhalai, Veerusami Pillai etc., to perform as also members of the Dhanammal family and many others and broadcast these performances on prime time, morning 8-30 and night 9-30. Ariyakkudi and Co., had to eat dust and fall in line from next year.

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 22 Feb 2013, 11:06

The Dk people would time and again protest at the Aradhana venue, put up posters asking vidvans to 'sing only in Tamil in Tamilnadu'. There was this big protest a dozen years ago which was threatening to go out of control and end in violence. Karuppiah Moopanar who was the President of the Aradhana Committee and a Congress party strongman asked the police to take strict action. Scores of people were arrested. The DK or DMK had nothing to do with classical music and they had no business interrupting the Aradhana. Now the protest are confined to a few posters being put up which are promptly pulled apart by the police and the local people who stand to benefit a lot by the Aradhana observances.

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 22 Feb 2013, 11:21

Ariyakkudi had a running feud with the AIR on many occasions. One year in the 50s, he suddenly had this revelation that he was the senior most of the Carnatic fraternity both in terms of age and concert experience. He therefore asked AIR that he be paid Re.1/ more than the others. In those days the AIR paid the musicians Rs.50/ for a concert on the radio. An amused AIR refused. Ariyakkudi then said he would boycott the AIR. Fine, said Sarukkai Gopalan who reported the matter to I&B Minister Kelkar who said, 'Oh is that so, then let him not sing'! Ariyakkudi realised this was getting him nowhere as, other vidvans, though they admired his music the most, were not keen on supporting him on this matter. He relented and agreed to sing in AIR again.

An interesting sequel to this was an incident which occurred on a train. Ariyakkudi and Chembai were travelling in the same compartment to Kerala for a festival concert. Chembai asked Ariyakkudi, "enna Ramanuja, I know you are elder to me by 5 years but tell me, did you start singing first or did I start singing first?" Ariyakkudi replied that indeed it was Chembai who had started singing solo even when he, Ariyakkudi, was still singing behind his guru Poochi Ayyangar. "Then what is this business about being senior and demanding Re.1/ more than others?" asked the practical professional from Palakkad. Ariyakkudi could do nothing but grin sheepishly.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Feb 2013, 11:45

Thx for the clarifications and the interesting anecdotes.

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 22 Feb 2013, 20:50

Thanks for the anecdotes.
Going back to Desikar-ARI incident, can we be sure of the year? Was it covered or discussed in any of the non-DK media at that time...like Vikatan, Kalki, Dinamani, Hindu etc...?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 22 Feb 2013, 20:57

RaviSri - thank you for sharing. I have a question - Is Sarukkai Sri Gopalan related to present-day bharatanATyam dancer, Ms. Malavika Sarukkai?

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 23 Feb 2013, 11:25

rshankar, yes, Sarukkai Gopalan is the grandfather of Malavika Sarukkai. He was also the younger brother of famous physician/surgeon Dr.S.Rangachari. Gopalan and his lieutenant T.Sankaran (Veena Dhanammal's grandson) in the AIR were responsible for CM becoming very famous amongst the public. Their services to CM has somehow escaped historians.

Sarukkai is a village on the North banks of the Cauvery near Umayalpuram, Kapisthalam etc., on the Tiruvaiyyaru-Kumbhakonam road.

Pashupathy, I have no idea about the year or whether it was discussed in the mainstream magazines. I was never even born then. Amongst the senior vidvans I have seen only Semmangudi.

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 23 Feb 2013, 20:09

Pashupathy, I have no idea about the year or whether it was discussed in the mainstream magazines. I was never even born then. Amongst the senior vidvans I have seen only Semmangudi.

I understand. If anyone has read about this incident in any mainstream magazine --Tamil or English.... at ANY time (not necessarily only when it happened ...can be later), I would like to know about it.Thanks.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2013, 20:49

It is mentioned every now and then in "Viduthalai" the DK official organ.
I would love to read the original writing by Mu Ka on that occasion.
It appears MMD never participated in T aradhana after the event.
KJY has participated on a few occasions and sang strictly by the rules.
Couple of years ago a famous vidwan (name withheld) participated fully drunk.
Apparently no actions were taken. Of course he was a brahmin

T aradhana is held in many parts of the world. In some non T kritis are sung
but not encouraged. Cleveland is one example..

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Feb 2013, 22:20

In the MMD incident, was the thIttu about singing non-T song or singing a T(amil) song?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 23 Feb 2013, 22:46

The DK interpret it as due to Tamil song (which certainly has to be non Thyagaraja Kriti). It was on vinayaka.
They magnify it as a disrespect for Tamil by the Aryans (brahmins)..

Pasupathy
I vaguely remember a citation that the event was reported in the swadesimitran.
But don't know how to track it...

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 24 Feb 2013, 00:11

I think it is 1945. Remember the last picture I had posted in
http://s-pasupathy.blogspot.com/2013/01/14.html

( the yr Venkateswaran read the address of Ramamurthy?...) On the back of that picture, there is a very cryptic ref to this incidence ...I withheld posting this page in my blog since I did not have any full article about the entire 45 Tyagaraja Aradhana nor did I have any other article that appeared at that time....to give a balanced view of that incident . In particular, I wanted to know if Kalki had written about it. ( Kalki and Vikatan were on opposite sides of Tamil isai movement , I think?)

in 9.2.45 "Kudiyarasu" , Kalaignar wrote an Editorial about it. I don't have it.

I tried to search for a "Sruthi" issue where this was commented upon...but could not locate it. I vaguely remember reading the comment that Ariyakkudi probably did that based on bad advice he got etc.... Since I do not have the exact quote, I don't want to speculate. I do not even know if any reporter had interviewed Desikar
or ARI after that yr and asked their reactions! The press , in my opinion, has not been very pressing! Very whimpy, if you ask me!

More than just commenting on the 'right' or 'wrong' of Desikar's deed, I want to know if/what other magazines have said about the reaction of ARI!

Well, I wish I had all the Music articles of all the Tamil magazines of that period

(

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 02:01

A very interesting analysis of MA and the Tamizh Isai Movement. A must read...
http://ir.minpaku.ac.jp/dspace/bitstrea ... 71_009.pdf

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 02:11

There is a report by muthu kumaraswamy in the Hindu
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/12/19/stor ... 020200.htm

Desikar began his concert at the Tiruvayyaru Tyagaraja Aradhana with ‘Anai Mugathone,’ (Devamanohari) and it caused a furore! This song was presented with beautiful chittaswarams at the end of both anupallavi and charanam.

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 24 Feb 2013, 03:10

cmlover wrote:A very interesting analysis of MA and the Tamizh Isai Movement. A must read...
http://ir.minpaku.ac.jp/dspace/bitstrea ... 71_009.pdf

I was aware of this....but the "year" 1952 he quotes based on a "Sarigamapadhani" article ( by one kALiyappan ) is wrong.
( I have the 'Sarigamapadhani" article) .

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 24 Feb 2013, 03:15

Desikar began his concert at the Tiruvayyaru Tyagaraja Aradhana with ‘Anai Mugathone,’ (Devamanohari) and it caused a furore! This song was presented with beautiful chittaswarams at the end of both anupallavi and charanam.

Thanks. The song is reported as "siddhi vinAyakanE' in the Tamil article:
http://viduthalai.periyar.org.in/20100724/snews01.html

It is clear that we need a complete collection of reactions from different media towards incidents such as these.... history , right?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 04:44

On page 17 under notes the author writes

An earlier version of this paper was presented at the biannual World Conference of the
International Council for Traditional Music (ICTM) in Hiroshima, Japan (1999) and at the Annual
Conference of the Society for Ethnomusicology (SEM) in Toronto, Canada (2000). I benefited
greatly from the comments from the floor at both meetings.

You and others may have been there during those times. What was the feedback....

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 24 Feb 2013, 05:22

I was not aware of this Conf ; so did not attend. (even if known, probably would not have gone:-)) By and large, most people would have agreed with the author, I think.

During that time, my interest was more in Indian media , particularly, Tamil. . I used to buy Tamil magazine "Sarigamapadhani"...and I read kALiyappan's article in Feb 99 ...there were many letters to Editor in the magazine afterwards...including one from Subbudu. People did agree with many things that K brought up...though they finally advocated celebrating Tamil composers, rather than attacking Thyagaraja festival. ( I remember Subbudu's question: "After all, will any other composer's songs be sung at Beethovan's cemetary?")

But it is a fact that at Toronto, the "concerts" in the Thyagaraja Festival days-evenings are left to the musicians' choices.... many of them do make it a 'general' concert with a special focus on a few of Thyagaraja's songs. e.g. I remember TNS singing Koteeswara Iyer's Bilahari krithi , where he describes Thyagaraja appearing in his dream... and blessing him.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 24 Feb 2013, 06:17

Pasupathy wrote:
I remember Subbudu's question: "After all, will any other composer's songs be sung at Beethovan's cemetary?"

But it is a fact that at Toronto, the "concerts" in the Thyagaraja Festival days-evenings are left to the musicians' choices.... many of them do make it a 'general' concert with a special focus on a few of Thyagaraja's songs. e.g. I remember TNS singing Koteeswara Iyer's Bilahari krithi , where he describes Thyagaraja appearing in his dream... and blessing him.

Yes, and the same is true for the recent Syama Shastry and Dikshitar festivals as well.
And the general concerts at the Cleveland aradhana are not about Tyagaraja at all.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 06:25

I know it is true in many other centers informally celebrating T festival.
Except at Thiruvaiyaru as RaviSri points out...
Are there MD or SS festivals outside of TN?

perhaps Mohan can enlighten us about the situation in Australia...

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 24 Feb 2013, 07:19

I know it is true in many other centers informally celebrating T festival.
Except at Thiruvaiyaru as RaviSri points out...

One question Mr.kALiyappan poses in his interview: 'If only T's songs are to be sung in T festival at ThiruvaiyARu , how come , in the name of Unjavruththi , Bajan etc, lots of non -Tyagaraja, Skt songs like Jayadeva's etc are sung? Then why not Tamil songs? '

)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 07:30

very valid question!
(I think they do sing Purandara as well under Bhajans...)

RaviSri · Post by **RaviSri** » 24 Feb 2013, 11:42

This unchavritti thing is just to imitate Thyagaraja. That is how it has become. In the early years it might have been a genuine thing with the participants trying to get a feel of how Thyagaraja lived his life. Thyagaraja reportedly used to sing Purandara kritis and other bhajans during his unchavriti. Probably that is what the navIna unchavrittikArans are imitating.

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 24 Feb 2013, 13:21

Aradhana is a shraddham for those who have taken sanyasa on their death thithis. There should be a free mass feeding on that occasion. The essence of uncha vriddhi is public collection of rice and dhal which will go for the feeding. This should not be taken as begging.This practice is part of the bhajanai padhdhadhi and is observed wherever there is mass feeding( It is done even for sri Radha Kalyanam and Seetha kayanam. Uncha vridhi singing from beginning to end follows a different pattern as prescribed in bhajanai sampradayam and it has nothing to do with Thyagaraja or any other single composer. Many Bhagavathars have given tapes for the Radha kalyanaman etc procedure and none has given one for the unchavriddhi part of it. I wish some one does that..

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 21:26

Uncavritti is prescribed for all brahmins (grihastas) by the Manu dharma.
During that process they are supposed to do Vedic chants. So dholak or cymbals
are out of place. Apparently Purandara introduced a pattern of Hari naama smaraNa
and composed a number of kritis for that purpose. Even in my younger days I have
seen elderly brahmins doing uncavritti singing mostly Purandara kritis. T must have
adapted the same style and later adding his own kritis.

Unquestionably T must owe a lot to Purandara and the Thevaram singing at the temples
(common place in those days) for his musical education. He should be complimented for preserving those traditions than be considered the originator of CM. For that matter why don't we have annual ARI aradhana for his invention and formalizing the concert paddhati. Only reason is because he is too close to us in Time and we know him only too well!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Feb 2013, 23:20

CML, no one in their right mind will claim Thyagaraja is the originator of CM. His fame and the enormous respect we show is in recognition of his contribution to CM through his bank of compositions that go well beyond purandaradasa and thevarams.

But none of this implies there were not other contributors to CM. To establish that fact, we do not need to take away anything from Thyagaraja's contributions. We have to be careful that we do not cross that line.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Feb 2013, 23:38

his bank of compositions that go well beyond purandaradasa and thevarams.

Are you sure?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Feb 2013, 01:32

Let me rephrase my statement slightly since it is ambiguous.

Thyagaraja's repertoire in terms of ragas and thalas (together) go well beyond what we know to be purandaradasa's and thevarams' repertoire.

Yes, I am sure....until someone knocks it down with some solid evidence to the contrary. But even then the context in which I made that statement is important that to prop up others we do not need to bring T down. Of course one can accuse me that I am bringing down Purandaradasa and Thevaram to prop up T. That is not my intention.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2013, 06:57

Arunagirinathar has more Thiruppugazh than T kritis.
Many have been set to CM (Bhajan style) by Raghavan and sung by his disciples
the world over. No artiste sings them in concerts because of the inherent view that
they are musically inferior which is probably true. But then their CM potential is great
and they have to be taken up by competent CM artistes. Even KJy has rendered some of them
elaborately. There is however no interest among the well-known TN artistes, nor are they interested
in putting any efforts to polish them. Why?

it is the inherent inferiority complex and the myth that only Trinity music is good CM.
If (late) Subbudu were to write and say that they are the best classical CM then no doubt
they will be sung in concerts. It is Advertisement and the word of "authority" that will
win ultimately than any real merit!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Feb 2013, 08:31

CML, I do not disagree with any of what you said in #132. But my point in response to your #128 remains. It is my firm conviction that it absolutely does not serve any purpose to talk Thyagaraja down, even if it is indirect and ever so slightly. Same thing about the Trinity in general. Hence my taking exception to #128 since it went over that line on many fronts

I love Guruji Sri. Raghavan's tuning of Thiruppugazh. For example, Pakkuvavachara in Desh is absolutely delightful. They are all soaked in raga bhava. I think in many cases non CM trained folks can be taught to sing them in a group and that is what happens in the many hundreds of Thiruppugazh groups around the world.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 25 Feb 2013, 09:13

Unchavritti उञ्छवृत्ति - one who lives by gleaning.

Unchavritti is to be adopted only by brahmacharis and by those who have renounced worldly occupations.

During unchavritti, singing is adopted as a method to announce that someone has come for unchavritti.

In Bhajana Sampradaya, unchavritti + singing is adopted to collect donations for the missionary work.

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 25 Feb 2013, 20:45

Let me quote an incident narrated by Guruji Sri Raghavan: After a famous mrdangist started accompanying a Thiruppugazh concert led by Raghavan ( perhaps a first such experience for the mrdangist) , said to Raghavan after an hour or so: " enna saar, oru maNi aacchu! innum aadhi thaaLamoo , roopakamoo varavillaiyE! ":-))

Thiruppugazh has the most unique, intricate Rhythmic structure..perhaps in the entire history of world-music...so I would be happy if it is sung for this alone and perhaps mrdangists can do a short thani afterwards acc to its unique Tala.... !

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2013, 21:47

VK
You appear to have totally misunderstood my post #128.
I have not detracted the importancee of T, nor am I trying to "talk him down". In fact I have the
highest admiration for his musical compositions.

My point is that T has been put on a pedestal to the extent that all other vaggeyakaras (especially Tamils) have been consistently ignored! That has worked to the detriment of the advancement of CM as well as the mass appreciation in TN. Here is an example. OVK was totally ignored by the CM community and it was an uphill task for Ravikiran to establish that OVK was on a par with T and deserves an honorable place among the Trinity. Perhaps you are not aware of the ridicule Ravikiran received for promoting OVK in the early days. There were even accusations that there was no OVK and the compositons were those of Ravikiran which he was trying to fob off. Yet Ravikiran, the musical genius that he is, consistently fought off the opposition among the vested T fans and has partly succeeded in bringing out the greatness of OVK long before T. Still there is a long way to go. I can personally relate, as do many in TN, to the bhava-laden renderings of OVK mainly because I can understand the lyrics. While the music of T is great, I could never experience any bhava in the renderings by TN artistes who themselves do not understand what they are singing

In summary my position is for a level playing ground in CM so that excellence is recognized wherever it comes from instead of creating an exclusive Trinity Club!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Feb 2013, 21:53

VK - this is with reference to your post #74 - the image you've posted has absolutely laughable resolutions - In particular, resolution #3 - if that resolution was worth the ink it was written on, how can one tolerate 'paNDu rIdi' and the likes of that?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 25 Feb 2013, 22:04

May we recall what Bharathi had to say on Thyagaiyer?

QUOTE
தியாகையர் தெய்வ வரம் பெற்றவர். தியாகையர் ரஸக்கடல். கர்நாடக ஸங்கீதம் இப்போது உயிர் தரித்திருப்பதற்கு அவரே காரணம். பூர்வகாலத்து ஞானிகளைப் போலே, இவர் இஷ்ட தேவதைக்கு ஆத்ம யக்ஞம் செய்து, தான் அற்றுவித்தை வடிவாகி விளங்கினர். இவருடைய பாட்டுக்களை இக்காலத்துப் பாடகர் அதிக 'ஸங்கதி'களாலும் ரஸநாசத்தாலும், சொற்களைத் திரித்தல், விழுங்குதல் முதலிய செய்கைகளாலும் இயன்றவரை ஆபாஸமாக்கிவிட்டபோதிலும், இன்னும் அவற்றிலே பழைய ஒளி நிற்கத்தான் செய்கிறது. குப்பையிலே கிடந்து மாசேறிஒளி மங்கிப் போயிருந்தபோதிலும், மாணிக்கத்தின் குணம் ரத்னப்பரீக்ஷைக்காரனுக்குத் தெரியாதா? அதுபோலவே, ரஸ உண்மை தெரிந்தோர் இத்தனை குழப்பத்துக்கிடையே தியாகையருடைய "தொழிலின் ஸ்வரூபத்தை நன்கு கண்டு பிடித்துக்கொள்ள முடியும். கீர்த்தனத்தில் ராக தாளங்களை இசைத்திருக்கிற மாதிரியிலேயே அர்த்தம் தொனிக்க வேண்டும். அதைத்தான் ரஸச்சேர்க்கை என்றுசொல்லுகிறோம். இதிலே தியாகையர் மிகவும் சிறப்புக் கொண்டவர்.

திருஷ்டாந்தமாக, 'சக்கனி ராஜமார்க்கமு' என்ற கீர்த்தனத்தை எடுத்துக் கொள்வோம். அதிக ஸங்கதிகளும், பின்னல்களும் இல்லாமல் இதன் பல்லவியை சுத்தமாகப் பாடிப் பாருங்கள். "நல்ல ராஜமார்க்கம் இருக்கும் போது சந்துகளில் ஏன் சுற்றுகிறாய், மனதே?" என்று அர்த்தம் இந்த இசையிலே அகப்படும்.

'மாருபல்க குன்னாவேமி' (ஏன் மறுமொழி சொல்லாமல் இருக்கிறாய்?) என்ற கீர்த்தனத்தின் பல்லவியைப் பாடிப் பாருங்கள், அந்த அர்த்தம் இசையிலே தொனிக்கும்.

'நன்னு ப்ரோவ நீகிந்த தாமஸமா' (என்னைக் காக்க உனக்கு இத்தனை தாமஸமா?) என்ற பல்லவி எடுத்த வுடனேயே அர்த்தம் பளீரென்று வீசும்.

இப்படியே எல்லாக் கீர்த்தனங்களும் ஏற்பட்டிருக்கின்றன. இந்த மாதிரி ஏற்படுத்தவேண்டும் என்று தியாகையர் சிரமப்பட்டு வேலை செய்யவில்லை. நெஞ்சிலே உண்மையிருந்ததால் ஸங்கீதம் இயற்கையிலே இவ்விதமாகப் பிறக்கும்.

பிற்காலத்தில், பட்டணம் சுப்பிரமணிய அய்யர் முதலானவர்களின் பாட்டிலே இந்த லக்ஷணம் இல்லை. 'வரமுலொஸகி' என்ற பாட்டை எடுத்தீர்களானால்,இசைக்கும் பொருளுக்கும் சம்பந்தமே இல்லை என்பது விளங்கும். சொற்கள், 'வரங்கொடுத்துக்காப்பது உனக்கு அரிதா?' என்று கேட்கின்றன. இசை சண்டைததாளம் போடுகிறது. இது நிற்க.

Thyagayyar was divinely endowed. He was a sea of aesthetic qualities. He is the cause for the survival of Carnatic Music today. Like seers of yore, he propitiated the deity of his choice soulfully and stood out like a personification of music. Though the musicians of the day have vulgarized his songs by excessive sangathis, destruction of taste, distortion and swallowing of words, etc. to the extent possible, still they retain the original gloss. Will not the assayer of jewels know the quality of ruby even if it has lied in dust pit, accumulated dirt and lost its shine? Likewise, connoisseurs will be able to spot the true form of Thyagayyar’s composition even amidst the aforesaid disarray.

The way rAgA and ThAlA are set to a kIrthanA should echo its meaning. That is what we call blending of taste. Thyagayyar is noted for it.

Let us take for example the kIrthanA ‘Chakkani rAja mArgamu’. Try singing its pallavi purely without many sangathis and complications. The meaning ‘Oh mind, when a good royal route is available, why do you stray into lanes?’ will be discernible in the music.

Try singing the pallavi of the kIrthanA ‘mArupalga kunnAvEmi (Why are you not replying)’; the meaning will be heard in the tune.

As soon as you sing the pallavi ‘nannu brOva nIkinda thAmasamA – why so much delay in protecting me’, the meaning will flow strikingly.

All the kIrthanAs are set like that. Thyagayyar did not labour with the intent to create like that. If there is truth in the heart, music will issue naturally in that manner.

In later years, this quality is not there in the songs of PatNam Subrahmanya Iyer and others. If you take the song ‘varamulosaki’, it will be clear that there is no connection between the song and the music. The words convey, ‘Is it difficult for you to grant the boon and protect me?’, but the music strikes a discordant note. Let it be.
UNQUOTE

It appears that Thyagaraja's compositions have that extra, which are conspicuously absent in other's creations. I am of course not qualified to make this statement, but that seems to be the view of many who have been in the musical circuit.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Feb 2013, 22:29

Thanks Pasupathy
for bringing the attention focus on the Talas of Thiruppugazh which is the work of a genius with vision.
It is a pity that they have been ignored in CM. It is time that Laya specialists learn to extend their Tala
repertoire by learning them since the work has already been done and compositions exist in those
Talas, thanks to Arunagiri. It will be an intellectual challenge to experience a Tani in any of those
Talas, add to that kanakku!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Feb 2013, 00:24

CML, I agree with you for the most part in post #136. I did not misunderstand what you stated in #128. But I will consider your subsequent posts to be restatements and clarifications of that which is fine with me. No problems.

Having said that,

My point is that T has been put on a pedestal to the extent that all other vaggeyakaras (especially Tamils) have been consistently ignored!

I think that is a false dichotomy. I do think other vaggeyakaras should be given much more prominence. Here I am talking about the subset where their compositions have great melodic and rhythmic merit and not just lyrical content, for inclusion in regular CM concerts. Absolutely no question about that. But that can still co-exist with putting T on a pedastal.

The reason I am claiming fairly confidently that it is a false association ( namely, others are ignored because T's compositions do not provide room for them ) is because for krithis to be included in concerts, it is not just the artists but the audience's reception matters. In any such collective sociological system, you can not just willy nilly go out of the equilibrium position and expect the audience to appreciate it. A better analogy is a comedian. His jokes are only funny if the audience understands the cultural context of the joke. We can not then say that the comedians's jokes do not go beyond the cultural context. The comedian can definitely do that, but it will bomb big time and they will be boo'd off the stage. ( analogy to CM should not be taken too literally

)

It is a long term process to spread the compositions of other vaggeyakaras among the CM audience, so the artists can feel confident that if they sing those compositions, it will go well with them. Otherwise, they would not risk it even if they personally feel that those compositions are great.
So it is a classic chicken and egg problem and it is not easy but not impossible. So those are the things to be looked at.

The solutions are many and multi faceted and it will all take time. But it has to start somewhere. Interestingly, juniors, sub-seniors and super-senior musicians can take the lead. Junior, because people will at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they are trying something new. They have time to recover! Super Senior artists do not care if the audience reaction is muted. The established main stream artists are the ones who have too much to lose if the audience reaction is bad and so they tend to be less risk-prone ( there are exceptions of course ).

That is how changes in such large inter-locked systems happen.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Feb 2013, 00:42

VK
You are still missing my point.
I am not arguing to dethrone T from his pedestal.
I am stating that the pedestal should be widened to accommodate other
forgotten greats to render them their legitimate position in CM history.

The partial History that RaviSri is disclosing is proof of the intolerance of the
T generation to accommodate anyone else. PS got admitted grudgingly after the
efforts of MS/Sadasivam/DKP/MMI etc., HMB has not been acccorded his legitimate
status yet.

You know of the great Banyon tree which has shoots all over but will not permit any other tree to grow
under its shade! That is not the fault of the Banyon Tree, but of the gardeners who fail to curb
the monoculture and promote room for other species to flourish...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Feb 2013, 01:03

I am stating that the pedestal should be widened to accommodate other
forgotten greats to render them their legitimate position in CM history.

Well said! I like that imagery.

But your Banyan tree analogy is not quite right since there is that curbing business.

I do not want any curbing of anything good. I will go with your widening the pedestal analogy.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Feb 2013, 01:16

OK! Let us leave the Banyan tree for Budddha to rest

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 26 Feb 2013, 01:33

Here's an article on Tyagaraja some may not have seen.
http://www.parrikar.org/carnatic/tyagaraja/

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Feb 2013, 02:28

Thx. seen it before! Here is a new Limerick:

There was an encyclopedic collector supreme
" Creatures-Lord" was his real name
He gets references from thin air
All authentic documented and fair
Though a Scientist still loves Arts
Unquestionably a man of parts

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 26 Feb 2013, 06:50

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Feb 2013, 13:48

rshankar wrote:VK - this is with reference to your post #74 - the image you've posted has absolutely laughable resolutions - In particular, resolution #3 - if that resolution was worth the ink it was written on, how can one tolerate 'paNDu rIdi' and the likes of that?

Ravi, why do you consider the resolutions themselves laughable? Because they are too trivial or something else?
I understand the rest of what you wrote above.

BTW, in 1929 journal, one musician asked the President if these resolutions are binding on the preforming musician or these are just recommendations and guidelines

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Feb 2013, 13:55

Pasupathy wrote:Here's an article on Tyagaraja some may not have seen.
http://www.parrikar.org/carnatic/tyagaraja/

Ramana and Muthukumar make my case ( for my assertion above ) in the first few paragraphs much more elaborately and forcefully than I can.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Feb 2013, 21:12

vasanthakokilam wrote:Ravi, why do you consider the resolutions themselves laughable? Because they are too trivial or something else?
I understand the rest of what you wrote above.

Well, what I wrote is one main reason for thinking them laughable. Are you aware of any of the others being enforced?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Feb 2013, 22:28

It is not laughable if the artiste sings only compositions in the language(s) known to him. Or else he should take the trouble to understand the meaning of the kriti from elsewhere and sings it without mutilating the words. These are mostly not true.
I have come across Telugu artistes who legitimately refuse to sing Taml songs because they do not know the meaning.

Consider the famous T song
manavinAlakiJca rAdaTE which initially was popularized by Chembai.

The meaning from Govindan is:
O My Mind (manasA)! Won't (rAda) You (aTE) (rAdaTE) listen (AlakiJca) to my appeal (manavini) (manavinAlakiJca)?

This is always sung as
manavinAlakiJ... carA.. daTE..
Musically OK! But does it make sense?
I doubt very much whether T ever composed or sang it thus!