Jayachamaraja Odeyar (Mysore Maharajah) - Part I

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:07

oDeyar`s "SrI cAmuNDESvari dEvi" in kannaDa

http://rapidshare.de/files/5433902/kannaDa.wav.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:08

Coolkarni.
Thanks for mentioning SrI tattva nidhi. I am aware that this is being published by the Oriental Reseach Institute, Mysore. The first and the 2nd nidhis are out. I have the first part in Bangalore. I had mentioned this book in another thread.

meena wrote:
Kji
sri-tattva-nidhi -encyclopaedic work by H.H. Maharaja Shri Sir Mummadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar III Bahadur.

RC/DRS
could u pl. start a new thread and discuss this monumental work with us.

This encyclopaedic work is on various subjects and music is just one of them. I do not think the work can be discussed here

meena · Post by **meena** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:08

DRS wrote

This encyclopaedic work is on various subjects and music is just one of them. I do not think the work can be discussed here.

Oh yes, i did read its does cover vast subjects, no way one can cover this, BUT 'The encyclopaedic work' covers ragas- some 48 plates/paintings. I hoped this could be discussed

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:08

cool K

glad you are back , as otherwise drs, was afflicted by a bout of HOT-akeshvara !

Darshan,

I had a look at the clip in question. I suppose you are referring to the huge ganesha behind the Silver Pooja Mantap ?

No sir, this is not ATma vilas ! this mantap is inside the private pooja room of the maharaja - next to what is known as kannadi thotti ! May be you have seen this thotti in some movie scenes too !!

ATma vilas as I have said is in between the durbar halls.

there is a possibility the photograph of the ATma vilas can be seen in a book -Mysore Royal Dasara/Text by Swami Sivapriyananda. Photographs : Gajendra Singh Auwa. 1995, 161 p., 136 col. photographs, ISBN 81-7017-331-0.

late swami sivapriyananda was a prince of dharampur (gujarat) but stayed at mysore for many years and died there & Gajendra singh is the last son -in-law of oDeyar.
Obviously being a son-in-law, he has unhindered access and unfortunately I gifted the book I had purchased to Kapil Dev- as the meeting with the legendary cricketer was too sudden and I could not think of a better gift!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:09

mAtu
|| SrI cAmuNDESvari dEvi ||

rAga: kannaDa ; Adi tALa (2 kaLe)

SrI cAmuNDESvari dEvi tava pAda bhaktim dEhi ||
vAcAm agOcarE vAnchita pradakarE mE mudam dEhi ||P||

rAja rAjESvarIti vikhyAtE SrI vidyE suguNa bharitE |
vijaya kAncIpura varanilayE SrI mahAtripura sundari SrI maccakrESvari SrI mantrESvari ||AP||

madana mOhanakara sundaravadanE madanavairi mAnasa sadanE |
tAdAtmyabhAvayuta yOgi hRtkamala bhavanE mandahasanE ||
mahAdEva sammOhanakara SivaSakti rUpiNi mahadAdi ShaTtrimSat tattva svarUpiNi vara kannaDarAga santOShiNi|
aham bramhAsmIti tattva mantrOpAsitE aharniSam UrdhvarEtO yOgi varENya cintitE mahAmahima vidita Subha caritE ||C||

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:09

Raja Chandra
adEnappa ogaTu koNanUrina bagge. swalpa biDisi hELa bArade?

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:09

RC, thanks for the clarification. All the videos show a great deal of information. One of them (video 16) shows SDNW performing abhishekam to a golden Shri Chakram along with other devatas. This Shri Chakram, if I'm not mistaken, was gifted to Nalvadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar by Shrimad Sacchidananda Shivabhinava Nrsimha Bharati Mahaswamigal. There is a mention about this in the Mahaswamigal's divya charitam.

DRS, I was reading the lyrics and their translations and I came across this in Devi Minakshi - Chakravaka. You had written:

>> cakravAka dhvani ghOShitE- One sounding the(or sounding in the) voice of the cakravAka bird (this seems a rather unsatisfactory explanation to me. it could simply be referring to the rAga and describing her sounding in cakravAka. Anybody else has a better explanation?) <<

I think it could mean: "She who is or whose glories are heralded by the sound (music) of chakravaka"

Does this seem okay to you? Sorry for raking this up.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:09

darshan
No need to be apologetic nor have you "raked up" anything. Heralded is fine but why the cakravAka bird? That still remains unanswered.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:09

I am sure darshan is simply stating that she is lauded in the cakravAka raga. No need to invoke any bird here.
cakravAka dhvani (tune or raga)ghOShitE(proclaimed) fits quite well here.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:10

Yeah, DRS, I meant what CML says. I wasn't even thinking about the bird.

Another suggestion in the same krithi is:

>> bhAvIbhUta prapanca sRShTikArya svadEha nilayE- One who is the residence of the universe created by Her own mere thought? <<

My thoughts would be:
"She who has the creation of the past and the future within Her, i.e. the creation of the universe, both past and future, happens within Her."

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:10

Meaning of
|| SrI cAmuNDESvari dEvi ||

rAga: kannaDa ; Adi tALa (2 kaLe)

SrI cAmuNDESvari dEvi tava pAda bhaktim dEhi- O cAmuNDESvari, give me the devotion to Your feet;
vAcAm agOcarE- You Who is not expressible by speach (words fail to describe Her adequately);
vAnchita pradakarE- You Who grant the desired fruits; mE mudam dEhi- Give me bliss;

rAja rAjESvari iti vikhyAtE- You Who are renowned as rAjarAjESvari; SrI vidyE; suguNa bharitE- You Who are full of exemplary qualities and traits;
vijaya kAncIpura varanilayE- You Who reside in the famed (won over) kAncIpura;
This usage too makes me wonder. The kRti is clearly about cAmuNDESvari, the tutelary deity of Mysore and the oDeyars. Yet he addresses her as residing in kAncIpura. Is it a veiled reference to the extent of oDeyars` rule/kingdom. I know for a fact that tiruvaNNAmalai was under the oDeyars for a while (and for quite a length of time under the Vijayanagar kings as is evident in the gOpuras and inscriptions of the temple). kAncIpura is not too far from here.
kAncI also refers to the waist region(kaTi pradESa) or girdle. But I do not think tis is a reference to any of the cakras in the region

SrI mahAtripura sundari; SrI maccakrESvari- The queen of SrIcakra;
Recall "SrImat simhAsanESvarI from the sahasranAma

SrI mantrESvari- The mistress of the SrI matra;

madana mOhanakara sundaravadanE- You with an alluring and bewitching countenance; madanavairi mAnasa sadanE- You Who take abode in the heart of Siva, the foe of manmatha;
tAdAtmya bhAva yuta yOgi hRtkamala bhavanE- You Who reside in the hearts of those yOgis who have the feeling of oneness with your nature; mandahasanE- You with a gentle smile;
mahAdEva sammOhanakara SivaSakti rUpiNi- You Who is in the united/aikya form of Siva and Sakti that enchants mahAdEva(Siva); mahadAdi ShaTtrimSat tattva svarUpiNi- You Who is in the form of the 36 tattvas beginning with mahat;
vara kannaDarAga santOShiNi- You Who is pleased by the good kannaDa rAga;
aham bramhAsmi iti tattva mantrOpAsitE- You Who is propitiated by vAkya and mantras such as aham brahmAsmi (Or mantras and tenets that have aham brahmAsmi as the underlying meanig i.e advaita bhAva); aharniSam UrdhvarEtO yOgi varENya cintitE- You Who is day and night meditated/contemplated upon by those yOgis who channel their sexual energies upwards i.e sahsarAra or brahmarandhra rather than to the base desires (This is the meaning of Urdhva rEtas);

mahAmahima vidita Subha caritE- You with a glwoing nature/character that represents all that is great and superior. (OR That is understood by the great people)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:10

I am sure darshan is simply stating that she is lauded in the cakravAka raga. No need to invoke any bird here.
cakravAka dhvani (tune or raga)ghOShitE(proclaimed) fits quite well here.

AFAIK dhvani does not mean tune or rAga. So that is not very satisfactory. If darshan was not invokng the bird (as he says), then it is not any differennt from what I have already said;- That it is simply a reference to the rAga itself.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:11

Yeah, DRS, I meant what CML says. I wasn't even thinking about the bird.

Another suggestion in the same krithi is:

>> bhAvIbhUta prapanca sRShTikArya svadEha nilayE- One who is the residence of the universe created by Her own mere thought? <<

My thoughts would be:
"She who has the creation of the past and the future within Her, i.e. the creation of the universe, both past and future, happens within Her."

Nice thought

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:11

correction
vAnchita *vara* pradakarE (makes more sense and that is the way she sings!)

coolkarni
Is it possible to re-upload this song if you have it? The wav file is less than optimum! (sorry DRS!)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:11

DRS

AFAIK dhvani does not mean tune or rAga. So that is not very satisfactory

You do have a strong 'kaivalya'. Won't give up easily (unbecoming of a scholar)
You do have Apte's dictionary from which you quote and there it is:

dhvani...2. Tune, note, tone; ...The sound of a musical instrument;.....

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:12

meena,

thanks for remebering my posts on sritatvanidhi:

here is an attempt to simplify the contents of the Nidhi:

Sri-Tattva Nidhi is a magnum opus written by Maharaja Krishna Raja Wodeyar III, more popularly called a Mummudi. He was the king of Mysore from 1799 to 1868.

There appears to be two copies of this encyclopedic and monumental work on traditional Indian learning and contains information iconography, rituals, astrology, art, architecture, music, games and pastimes. One copy of this is said to be with the Royal family and the other one with Oriental Research Institute of Mysore University. Oriental research Institute itself was established by the Mummudi’s adopted son, Maharaja Chamaraja Wodeyar- grand father of JCRW – long before Mysore University was established.
Surprisingly a report in 1997, emanating from America claimed that a copy of the book was in the hands of Dr.Bob Del Monta – a research scholar on India.

Prof. S.K.Ramachandra Rao is said to have a copy of this work but without the illustrations !

Nevertheless, according to a report Mysore Palace copy contains 1324 pages ( 1.5’X1.0’) and contains nearly 1009 paintings !

Sri Tattava Nidhi is divided in to Nine Nidhis – Treasures.

The first section is called as SHAKTI-NIDHI and is said to deal with the iconography of the Goddess in her myriad forms.

The second section is called as VISHNU-NIDHI, the third one as SHIVA-NIDHI depicting as the name suggest iconography of Vishnu, Lakshmi, Shiva, Ganesha, Subramanya and all associated divine self’s.

The fourth section known as BRAHMA-NIDHI describes Brahma, Indra, Saraswathi, Vedas, Ayurveda, Astrology, etc.

The fifth section is known as GRAHA-NIDHI deals with Zodiac and nakshatras etc.

The sixth and seventh sections are known as VAISHNAVA-NIDHI & SHAIVA -NIDHI and deals with pilgrim centers and philosophy of vaishnavism. & shaivism respectively.

The eighth nidhi is called as AGAMA-NIDHI and deals with various aspects of Agama shastra’s.

The last and the ninth nidhi is called a KAUTAKA-NIDHI is about different types of interesting games like card games ( using ganjifa cards), board games (similar to chess), dice and mathematical puzzles and also yogasanas!

Earliest publication of this Veritable treasure is said to have been done in by Mr. Khemaraj Krishnadas of Sri Venkateswara Steam Press, Bombay in Devanagari almost a century ago.

Professor. S.K.Ramachandra Rao has written a book entitled SRI-TATTVA-NIDHI in 1993. It was published by Kannada University, Hampi. But in all probability this is not culled out from the Treasure. It is misnomer !! Mummudi’s another monumental work known as svara-cUDamaNi is the basis for this book.

But the most unusual and un expected source is a book written by a Canadian Scholar vidyavacasapti Dr. N.Sjoman called THE YOGA TRADITION OF THE MYSORE PALACE. ( abhinav publications, New Delhi. ISBN 81-7017-389-2. It gives all the 122 plates of yoga-asanas depicted in Kautuka Nidhi. ( interestingly he has written another book – An introduction to south Indian Music !!)

The most recent addition is by the Oriental Research Institute.

As drs says it will be impossible to deal with this Treasure Trove in any forum of this type. But it is certainly possible to restrict the scope to rAga mAla paintings.

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:12

svAmi drs avare,

svalpa dayamADi kRupe mADi tALme iMda iri. nitya nidde keTTu, oMdu kate baradu- sAkagide.

hAge nODidare ogaTu Enu illa. vishaya tiLiya bEkAgittu, Adare nimage tiLidilla aMdamEle adara bagge utsAha kaDime Agide.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:13

correction
vAnchita *vara* pradakarE (makes more sense and that is the way she sings!)

coolkarni
Is it possible to re-upload this song if you have it? The wav file is less than optimum! (sorry DRS!)

Actually the sAhitya is "vAnchita phala pradakarE". The omission of the word phala or vara will not make a difference in the meaning. vAnchita itself is also a noun. I am saying this with kaivalya (the straight meaning. Not your derivation )

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:14

DRS

You do have a strong 'kaivalya'. Won't give up easily (unbecoming of a scholar)
You do have Apte's dictionary from which you quote and there it is:

dhvani...2. Tune, note, tone; ...The sound of a musical instrument;.....

So oDeyar must have played cakravAka on his piano. She will be pleased then but not if rendered vocally even with utmost kaivalya !
That still doesnt show it from being any different from my original interpretation(of it being a rAga) does it? kaivalyarahita like you should not have a problem admiiting it

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:15

Coolkarni
I second CML`s request. I know you dont have the kannaDa kRti in your collection. But could you do some doctoring on my clipping and improve the quality of it? That was a result of my amateur software editing skills.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:15

DRS
Not really
The noun would be vAnchitaM,
Here it is used as an adjective to qualify the noun 'vara' ( I am leaving out the excruciating grammatical details )

The derivation stands

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:15

Did Odeyar ever sing? It will be great to hear his voice print! (not any speeches or orations please )

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:16

DRS
Not really
The noun would be vAnchitaM,
Here it is used as an adjective to qualify the noun 'vara' ( I am leaving out the excruciating grammatical details )

The derivation stands

Perhaps you would be kind enough to indulge us with those details. (will bear the excruciation ). All the dictionaries list vAnchita as a noun too.

And also, for the sake of correctness, it is phala (as sung here) and not vara.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:17

here is vinanAsakoni in pratApavarALi ( courtesy Badri on sangeetham)

http://rapidshare.de/files/5451455/08_- ... varali.vqf

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:17

DRS

you asked for it
(I assume it is out of a desire to learn and not a kaivalyasahita vitaNDaa vaadaM )

However I will skip some details.

First note that Apte gives vAnchita as p.p meaning a past pariciple and not as a noun.

The verb 'vAnch' means to wish or desire and the past participle is derived as 'vAnchita' (note that 'i' is added since it is a 'set' verb!). This is a 'akaaraanta' pratipadika. which means it is a crude form. It cannot be used as a noun. To convert into a noun you have to add the prathama vibhakti appropriate for the gender (masculine, feminine or neutre). Again one has to keep in mind the number which are singular, dual or plural. let us deal with singular only here. The prathama affixes are 'H' (visarga) for both the masculine and feminine and 'M' for the neutre. hence if you want to make a masculine noun out of vAnchita it will be vAnchitaH meaning one who desired (male). To obtain the feminine we first convert the pratipadika into feminine using the appropriate affix (in this case A(taap)) to get vAnchitA and add the visarga to get vAnchitAH, but however in the case of feminine the visarga gets elided and you get vAnchitA meaning one who desired (female). For the neutre noun you get vAnchitaM meaning that which is desired.

The crude pratipadika (with some modifications and limtations) can be used as an adjective or can be used in a samaasa (compound word). It however will have to agree in gender and number the word it qualifies. In this case Odeyar has use vAnchita phala where (phala is neutre). it would be vAnchitA shrI (wealth which is feminine).

This concludes the first part which is immediately relevant to your query. There is a lot more if I have to explain the whole sequence of terms here. For example did you pause to think that the feminine word must be pradakarI which in vocative should be pradakari and odeyar has used pradakarE! Odeyar is careful with the language (he is a scholar) and he is right! If we go into these details we will be discussing sanskrit grammar here instead of Music.

Sorry folks for the digression.

I am striving to remain kaivalyarahitaH as per your advice

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:18

I guess I should be saying "you asked for it" but I will spare a senior who is striving very hard to be kaivalyarahita
Can I ask you to see Apte`s, MW, Cologne again? I assume you read till the end rather than stopping wherever it is favourable to you. I am not posting the dictionary entries as it will unncessarily occupy space here.

And if you care to do a google search, you will find references for "vAnchitaprada" with neither phala nor vara intervening.

As for pradakarE, the singers actually sing pradakarA or pradakara which I take it is incorrect. If the feminine is taken as "pradakarA" (AkArAnta strIlinga) would not the vocative/sambOdhane be pradakarE? vAnchita being a noun , vAnchitapradakarE would be correct is it not? Correct me if I am wrong.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:18

DRS
Here is the entry from the on-line dictionary

Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon: Search Results
1 vAJchita mfn. wished , desired , beloved , longed for MBh. Ka1v. &c. ; n. wish , desire ib. ; m. (in music) a kind of measure.

Of course it states (mfn) as noun, whereas Apte correctly states:
vAnchita p.p. Wished, desired. -taM A wish, desire

In all cases these are pratipadikas which have to take on a vibhakti to be used as a noun (as I have stated). There is no difference between an adjective and noun in this respect in Sanskrit except the addition of prathama vibhakti.

vAnchitaprada is a samaasa compound and it is a tatpuruSha compound:
vAnchitam prada yEna sa vAchitapradaH according to samaasa rules. Note the absence of space here and also vAnchita is an adjective here. it means one(male) who gives what is desired. (Note vAnchitam is in the accusative when you dissolve). This whole tatpuruSha is used as an adjective to kara to form the word vAnchitapradakara which again is a pratipadika to which gender affix has to be given to make a noun. In this case both A (tAp) or I (^NISh)are admissible and as you stated correctly pradakarE is OK as also pradakari.

Hence there is nothing wrong with the word and interpretation of 'vAnchitapradakarE' (all one word ) except that it is not the saahityam. My correction was to the maatu which affects the dhatu. Thousands are visiting this site and may be learning these songs. You cannot take liberty with the saahityam here(which will affect the music) thinking it is OK by me! It will be unfair to Odeyaar! It will be unfair to the audience!

No hard feelings!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:18

Kannada and RTP's.That was a tough demand.

anyway..mention of Kannada always berings to mind lalgudis magical touches to this raga.
http://rapidshare.de/files/5458789/lalg ... a.mp3.html
simply out of this world !

and of course i also detect a very special relationship between this raga and ramnad krishnan .so we have two renderings here..

: http://rapidshare.de/files/5458414/ramn ... 4.mp3.html
: http://rapidshare.de/files/5458573/SHRI ... n.mp3.html

and CML
I have just redone DRs's track in mp3 for ease of download
http://rapidshare.de/files/5458193/kannaDa.mp3.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:18

Thanks coolkarni

the audio is much better.

DRS

You are right. She sings vAnchita phala pradakara which is clearly wrong. We would assume what you post to be the authoritative sahitya since it is clean unless there is a published manuscript under the authority of Odeyar himself!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:19

CML
I hope this is the last post on this issue. Let me set the record straight. You said vAnchita *vara* pradakarE makes more sense and stated that vAnchita is no a noun and blah-blah. You made unnecessary references to my *kaivalya* which was uncalled for. What was the need?

I repeat. Apte`s states vAnchita as a noun. Do refer again to the online dictionary.

Now you are making uncharitable accusations of me taking liberty with oDeyar`s sAhitya. To err is human. You and everyone else here have access to the recordings and are in no way expected to blindly accept what I say. My issue was with your arguments about correctness of the word formation alone and I have made it explicitly clear.
Do you think I get a kick out of playing with oDeyar`s sAhitya? I have no need to do so. I can and do compose myself and have ample oppurtunities to exercise my liberty.
You or anyone else here is welcome to post the correct sAhitya. It will save me a lot of effort too. It certainly does not make my job easier to have others making uncharitable remarks about my efforts and intentions.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:19

kannaDa is a bhAShAnga rAga. It is variably placed under harikAmbOdhi(28th mELa) or dhIraSankarAbharaNa(29th mELa). mudduvenkaTamakhi and SSP place it under the former. But the current version uses N2 only rarely and oDeyar`s version, not at all. Even in bhAva, it seems more appropriate to place it under the latter.
This rAga too is difficult to capture in a scale. Broadly

SR2G3-M1PMD2_N3S* | S*NSD_PMGMR_S ||

R is often eschewed in the ascent with prayOgas such as "SGM" and "SMGM". There are several other viSESha prayOgas. D,Mand G are jIva and nyAsa swaras. R too can be nyAsa in descent. D has a characteristic wide oscillation reaching upto tAra ShaDja. The extent in mandra sthAyi is upto dhaivata.
There is lot of scope for bhakti, karuNe and SrngAra in the rAga but not much dainya. An elongated R in descent introduces an element of SAnta.
This rAga is equally suited for fast as well as slow tempo.

This is a fabulous rAga with so much scope for elaboration. It is a pity the rAga is not sung often. An RTP will be wonderful. The rAga can brighten any concert in danger of becoming dull.

oDeyar`s kRtis is a welcome addition in this rAga.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:19

Coolkarni
Thanks for the kannaDa pieces. Do you also have "inta kaNTE". pUci SrInivAsa iyengar is said to have coposed the song when in dire financial straits. The song rescued him needless to say.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:19

just a tiny bit.by ramnad krishnan
Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/5468894/1_INTAKANTE.MP3.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:19

DRS

I certainly wanted you to have the last word. But then I had to clear any misconceptions you may have had. Your scholarship and erudition is highly appreciated. It is a signal service that you are rendering to Odeyar by bringing to light his works through these pages. Your commentary is extremely valuable in parsing his ideas. As you know bAShyakaara is more valuable than sUtrakaara himself! Also your readership here also consists of well-read and equally well-informed clientale. There is no need for superciliousness. As the poet says a tree laden with fruits always bends down and it is the barren tree that stands tall. As coming from one who has seen years my humble advice is be charitable to criticisms even if they are wrong! Conciliation is superior to confrontation!

I am personally astounded by your scholarship, creativity and the wealth of encyclopedic information that you are presenting. There are however different versions since Truth is many-sided as much as we have many Gods in Hinduism all equally great and each symbolizing the Absolute.

Perhaps you can tolerate an anecdote. Eons ago as I was training at UC Berkeley a famous professor was explaining a complex biological phenomena. In that process he arrived at a definite integral whose value he did not know. He frantically asked his assistant to rush to the library to fetch the Table of Integrals. I (the only Indian student in the crowd) mentioned to his surprise that it can be evaluated easily and went aboard to demonstrate that from first principles it could be derived. I also stated to his surprise that the answer was not unique but depended on the initial conditions. (Those were the early days of Chaos Theory). The Professor (a White Supremacist) marvelled the Indian thought process and revised his views about Indians when in private I mentioned that by virtue of our UpaniShadic trainings we are never struck on dogmas. End of digression.

There was no need for a Sanskrit 101 when you have madeup your mind. And if you do find my comments obtrusive I will be happy to be a bystander and enjoy than be a vain participant in attempting to gild the wonderful lily blossoming through your exertions! And my apologies to you if I have touched any te/inder spots!

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

I think things are getting unnecessarily a bit hot. cool down friends. we all have respect every one's erudition. I thought we have come along way in this thread to take a little liberty with each other and pull one's leg a bit. All in jest ! No offence meant to any one . let us understand when oDeyar composed these kRuti's he was only around 26 years old. So it is not necessary he was 100% right in all aspects always. Any way no one has seen the original script and it has only been handed down by either Shree Channakeshaviah or Sri.Krishna murthy- grand son of Shree Vasudevacharya. No one is infallible

any way you can d/l and enjoy rks

http://rapidshare.de/files/5480415/rks_ ... i.mp3.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

Thanks RC

Just a tempest in the teapot since coolkarni was taking a break and to give a therapeutic vent for DRS's hyperpyrexia

I was agreeing with the statements of DRS about the inadequate exploitation of the beautiful raga Kannada. I was disappointed with the unimpressive pedestrian presentation of sri Chamundeswari(by ?) when like a godsend you posted the rks version. it sparkles like lightning among dark clouds and fully exploits the beauty of Odeyar's lyric. Here is a raga and a lyric worth taking the main stage in the concert platform. Sudha's sharavaNabhava guhane is excellent but is too short to fully relish the raga. I do hope one of these days a RTP becomes available.

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

drs,

my apologies if i am responsible for stoking your anger a bit by my comments on koNNanUr episode.

as an amateur history student of Mysore your place had some curiosity as that was the place karacUri ( actually from kaLale near najangud) was forced to retire from Srirangapatna as a sort of punishment by Hyder & immaDi krishna raja odeyar.

Incidentally karacUri was an extra ordinary shiva bhakta and has indeed composed a opera "gita gangadhara" in Sanskrit. He also has innumerable other works on the entire gamut of shaivism. This list also includes "halasya purana". It is quite possible the book you have left behind at Bangalore owes its origin to him.

History has been unkind to him. If Hyder and Tipu can be called as the rulers of Mysore, then Nanajaraja -also known as Nandi raja a and Nava Bhoja Raja -was undoubtedly a Ruler par excellence. He was at the helm of affairs of Mysore from 1734 to 1762. He was the de-facto ruler during the minority of immaDi and also was his father in law. It was he, who made an ordinary foot soldier Hyder employed in the fort of Bangalore by Rani Lakshammani's father to his position of pre-eminence after the seize of Devana Halli. The Mysore wars against Tirucharapalli are the watershed incidents in his life. Had Nanjaraja succeeded, probably history of south India may well have been different. His life is a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions. He could have been the hero but ended up as a villain. Treachery by his protÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â©gÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â© Hyder did not help matters. I empathized with this character and felt why he could not have proclaimed himself as the King and history could well have told a different story.

The temple at Srirangapatna - Ganagadharesvara temple was built by him.

Do you see any connection with this temple and oDeyar's kRuti - as many times he invokes shiva by this time.

Barakki Srinivasa Rao was a close associate of Nanjaraja and he was also made to retire to koNNanUr !!

I am very sure there must be a good shiva Temple in your place.

It is also possible there are few ursu families left in your place and they must be belonging to bharadwaja gotra.

If answer to both the above questions is yes, then there must be descendent of Barakki Srinivasa rao too.

Sorry folks this is bit of a digression but it was necessary for me to get it off the chest and ease the matters a bit.

Sorry once again drs, carry on.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

CML
We all value your input as everyone elses. I respect your thoughts and sanskrit scholarship. Have no doubt on that count. Sometimes a matter of fact statement is wrongly interpreted as being supercilious or dismissive. What can I say- Variety is the spice of life. The spice seemed to have become rather excessive here. It has now been remedied. I am also positive that you now well by know that I do not carry any hard feelings. No harm done.

As for the quality of singing in version I posted, all artistes who sung for the series are well known and established ones. Some of them may sound as if lacking spontaniety or inspiration simply because 2 artistes who otherwise never sing together have been thrown together just for the series.

Raja Chandra
My wife and I are breaking our heads to see a reason for me to get angry about your narration. I have tried very hard to beat up a rage but failed miserably May I mention that my place is called koNanUru and not koNNanUru. It was actually koLalUru (from the vENugOpAlaswAmi temple) which has become corrupted in the hands (mouths ) of people. And yes, there is a Siva temple too(a small though ancient one). I am not aware of arasu(urs) families in koNanUru but that is neither here nor there as I have not lived any great lengths of time there. I shall ask my parents and let you know.

A correction
The version (SrI cAmuNDESvari) you posted is rendered not by R.K.Srikantan but by his son R.S.Ramakant. A chip of the old block!!!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

Boy !
Am I fully Cured NOW !!!
I will not dare take a three day layoff again

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

DRS

I am not critical of the artists or the less than optimum recordings. Overall the AIR production is more like an infomercial than highlighting the musical excellence of Odeyar. It is too short and does not bring out the fine points of the construction. Occassionally even the imbedded swaraakSharas were noticed by me only after you drew attention. Perhaps it was due to the limitations of time and the artistes were briefed to stick to time schedules. Some of the isolated renderings of rks are brilliant. Of course it is rks! I certainly enjoy the lyrics, the scholarly sanskrit and the embedded philosophical and religious themes. Thanks to you! But I am afraid if these lyrics have to get the recognition they deserve they ought to be rendered by well-known artists without any time restrictions. Swati's bhaavayami, devadeva or saarsAkSha .. would not have become concert pieces were it not for the Golden touch of SSI. Why didnt the Royalty attempt to popularize this magnum opus comparable in grandeur with Swati or even MD? I do not believe the problem is fiscal! Is there some action that we Rasikas can concertedly take? I know Kartik is working on the web site which alone is not adequate. Shall we discuss some of these issues sometime perhaps outside of this thread, if you prefer. Thanks

kaapi · Post by **kaapi** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:20

CML sir,
You are right. Till the advent of this thread the only Odeyar krithi I had heard was "Siva Siva Siva Bho" by MSS.
There is no musician with a mass following of who is propagating the oDeyar krithis. If the rasikas become aware of the krithis then there will be pressure on the musicians to sing more of these krithis.
We can look at the following
1. Sponsoring a competition in Odeyar krithis at one of the better known sabha's during the music season.
2. A lec - dem on Odeyar krithis during the music season.
3.Programmes devoted exclusively to Odeyar krithis. ( Hamsadwani at Chennai used to organise concerts devoted to to to one composer or idea etc.)

However to do that we need the krithis ( swara and sahitya) in black and white in the local languages where CM is learnt. I voluteer to transliterate them in Tamil ( if this is already not available). If the same can be done in all four southern languages and made avilable thru the oDeyar's websit it will be a good resource in the propogation of the krithis.

To cross check with the actual rendition I will be grateful if all the krithis posted so far are u/l to the X Drive (as Rapidshare does not share with me regularly).

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:21

Thanks kaapi

This is the form of constructive suggestions and offers to help we need as the outcome of these discussions. DRS has done a marvellous job of uncovering these musical treasures. I do hope he will take an initiative in leading a team in getting the lyrics with swara notations and the informative raga descriptions that he is sharing with us so that our performing nusicians will take note of these gems. I do foresee an annual Odeyar day a regular feature of the music season in the not too distant future. I would like the silent CM enthusiasts who are visiting this site to speak up and express their opinions!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:21

meena/coolkarni/chembai

Since our dormant x-drive is still there will it be possible to u/l the Odeyar kritis (only) on to them so that thye can be selectively d/led and learned by CM learners. Let us leave out the other supportive materials which are an interesting addendum but we should not get mixed up. Also the lyrics and the meanings could be collected and posted as a separate HTML/pdf document (and u/led to x-drive)(of course with the permission of DRS since it is his intellectual property). Is it acceptable?

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:21

kaapi

welcome back. it is a refreshing change from the spoke in the wheel episode.

At Mysore there has been an attempt by the Ursu community to keep the interest in oDeyar's composition alive. For the last two years his birth day is being celebrated accompanied by his kRuti’s rendition by known musicians.

In 2004 it was by Vidushi Dr.Sukanya Prabhakar, where in, she also released a cassette. I am given to understand that she is ready with a second cassette, which will be shortly released.

In 1997, Vidvan Sri.Nanadakumar and his wife gave a dance adaptation of four kRuti's .

Hopefully this tradition will continue.

This year even Mysore university, joined the bandwagon with a two day program.

If in Bangalore any one wants to do a similar annual function, my support is always there..

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:21

There is another interesting information i should share,

oDeyar shares his birthday with none other than goddess cAmuMDEshvarI
he was born on AShADa -bahuLa- ShaShThi. This day is also celebrated
as cAmuMDEshvarI janmOtsava atop the hill !

since nothing is happening,

please d/l

http://rapidshare.de/files/5525738/rks_ ... a.mp3.html

this has already been commented upon, but as CML likes it i am repeating iit.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:21

Could somebody briefly comment (or provide a link)on the religious significance of AShaada BahuLa ShaShTi ?

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:21

continuing on my recent post on shrI tatva nidhi
Oriental Library-Mysore University series is as follows:

1. Volume-1; shaktinidhi:, Year 1997, Pages:424, price: Rs.1500.00. Contains photo print of original, transliteration and comments in Sanskrit, Kannada & English in one book.

2. Volume-2; viShNunidhi, year 2002, pages: 122/132, Rs.500.00, separate versions for only Kannada & Sanskrit with English transliteration.

3. Volume -3; shivanidhi; pages: year 2004, pages: 214/227. Rs.600.00 separate versions for only Kannada & Sanskrit with English transliteration.

any one interested can contact:

Director, Oriental Research Institute, Mysore-570005 with full payment in advance, postage & packing extra.

first plate of this magnum opus:

http://rapidshare.de/files/5526962/srit ... i.jpg.html

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:22

drs avare,

nimma shrImatI avarige namaskAra mattu vaMdanegaLu. nAnu tappitasta alla eMdu hELi nanna manassu hagura mADiddIra

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:22

Kaapi
It is nice to see your zeal. Thank you and welcome.

CML
I agree with you that more artisteshave to sing the kRtis elaborately to bring out the beauty in them and to increase their mass appeal. But I must say that oDeyar`s kRtis are becoming popular and certainly fairly well-known in Karnataka. It is just that these artistes do not get their due recognition in Chennai.

It is heartening to see the enthusiasm the thread has sparked in many people with regard to oDeyar`s kRtis. Bangalore Gayana samaja conducts annual competitions in vocal category for singing compsoitions of particular composers. oDeyar is one of them. What I found encouraging was that there were a good number of participants for oDeyars compositions (all young and upcoming) although many other composers did not have sufficient number of participants for holding a competition. There are several commercial releases of oDeyar`s kRtis (Seetalakshmi Venkatesan, R.S.Ramakant, Nagavalli Nagaraj, H.K.Nagaraj(?), Sukanya Prabhakar) and this was how I learnt HH`s kRtis for the competition several years ago. A few of HH`s kRtis were also notated by R.K.Srikantan and published as a book.

I am happy to contribute my mite in propagating oDeyar`s kRtis. I would also welcome the other silent majority to speak up and come forward with their views and ideas.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 25 Aug 2006, 23:22

I have uploaded mahiShAsura mardini in nAmanArAyaNi for discussion next. Coolkarni, If you can improve quality of the recording, please do and let us have it.

http://rapidshare.de/files/5532997/nAma ... i.mp3.html