bharathanatyam for the uninitiated....

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 12 Sep 2008, 22:54

arasi wrote:Anyway, disregard what I said

Ha Ha !

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Sep 2008, 23:07

ganesh_mourthy wrote:This is a real feast for the eyes. Can this be termed as a classical piece?

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7Cj_zEKmc

Ganesh_mourthy,

If you mean, 'can this be choreographed using very classically prescribed movements?', then the answer is 'yes' - because, like 'tillAnA' mOhanAmbAL says, a true dancer should be able to dance (in true classical style) to even the rhythm of fireworks going off - and this indeed is simply awesome, both rhythm- and melody-wise! Ms. Shobana's group makes the piece exhilarating with their high-energy movements. As an aside, as Smt. Chitra Visveshvaran's student, Ms. Shobana's style is also vazhuvUr.

Arasi, and Sri Cienu,

Thanks for the compliments! I just hope that I have not been shooting my mouth off with wrong comments - I do hope some of our performing experts will chime in.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 13 Sep 2008, 00:16

Oh nice to know that Shobana is also from vazhuvur. I thought that she inherited a style from her actress cum dancer aunt Padmini and systers. they hailing from kerala I dont know what style they were. And do not know if Padmini used to give any classical performences at all.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Sep 2008, 01:34

Lalitha, Padmini and Ragini used to give an awful lot of performances--'oriental dances by Travancore Sisters'--was how their programs were advertised, believe it or not!

Ravi,
Did they also learn from Dandayudapani Plillai? My memory is not cooperative on that.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 14 Sep 2008, 10:21

rshankar OOOOOOOOOO(crying out to educate) rshankar,

what is kuchipidi? I saw some clippings in youtube and I could not differentiate between the two. though different dances like odissi kathak and mohiniaattam seems very distinguishable I feel kuchipidi is so close to bharathanatyam. or is it only to me. watch the following video by uma balamuralikrishna

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=LxmCL9CpERY

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 14 Sep 2008, 10:23

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuchipudi

here is some information before rshankars before the inputs of rshankar

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Sep 2008, 00:28

In this clipping, for the first 1:16 minutes, you can see the ever-popular naTESa kauttuvam in the mELattUr style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd3mKpPiSlE

And this is in the pandanallUr style of Darpana, Smt. Mrinalini and Ms. Mallika Sarabhai's school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cATlVaJlhT0

The meLattUr version is more lyrical, with languorous movements of hips and limbs, while the latter is in the more straight-line type of choreography.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Sep 2008, 00:51

Sri ganesh_mourthy,

I know very little about kucipuDi - what I know is that like kathak in NI, kucipuDi is a dance form where the practitioners went from place to place singing and dancing the praises of krishNa, and enacting his divine lIlAs. It is named after the village in AP where generations of brAhmin boys learnt the art form and lived off their earnings by retelling these stories arranged as elaborate nATya productions. Only boys and men were allowed to learn this form, and Smt. Yamini Krishnamurthy was the first woman to learn this art form and perform it on stage. So, while bharatanATyam evolved from temple services (nATya sEvA), kucipuDi evolved from a story-telling tradition. bharatanATyam was, and remains to this day, predominantly a solo performance style, with a mArgam laid out by the quartette, while kucipuDi was predominantly a 'dance-drama' type of art form, and a solo mArgam had to be evolved when people began to give solo performances very recently in the 20th century (the reverse happened with bharatanATyam, with the kalAkSEtra leading the way in choreographing dramas). Another difference between bharatanATyam and kucipuDi is that while the language of the songs for bharatanATyam included sanskrit, telugu, kannaDA and marAThi in addition to tamizh (even in the days of yore), songs for kucipuDi are mainly in telugu or sanskrit. Very recently, Sri OVK's tamizh compositions have been choreographed in kucipuDi.
Technique-wise (now, I am on more of a slippery slope here!:)), I think kucipuDi is way faster than bharatanATyam, and emphasis on 'araimanDi' is very little in the nritta portion. tIrmAnams are very different, and there seem to be more upper body (waist) movements. In choreographing lyrics, the difference from bharatanATyam becomes very evident - bharatanATyam choreography is padArtha - meaning, each word of the sAhitya is matched by a corresponding action, while in kucipuDi it is vAkyArtha - with the actions bringing out the general import of the sAhitya. For example, take the phrase 'nI ingE vA' - in bharatanATyam, the actions will match 'you','here', and 'come' in that order, while it is perfectly acceptable in kucipuDi to mime 'you come here'. Finally, items like tarangam are unique to the kucipuDi style where the dancer dances on a plate.

If others (like apsara/avnipriya) can add some more it will be awesome!

Here is a jatisvaram in kucipuDi style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbWXTnc4ooo

See the tIramAnam between approximately 1:38 and 1:43.

And here is the famous rAgamAlika jatisvaram of the tanjAvUr quartette in bharatanATyam style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5vNE-4o ... re=related

Watch some of the tIrmAnams (between approximately 1:15 and 1:20, and 4:31 and 4:36 for example) to see the contrast.

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 16 Sep 2008, 07:15

Ravi: Thank you for a wonderful commentary - it has been very enjoyable indeed. Stylistic differences in abhinaya between Koochipudi and Bharatanatyam (in terms of padaartha / vaakyaartha) merit further attention, particularly in the context of dancing to Kshetrajna padams.

The villages of mOvva and kUchipudi are only ~4-5 km apart (a 2 hr journey by bus from Vijayawada) and are repositories of a hoary tradition in both dance and music. mOvva Varadaiyya was himself an accomplished dance master in the kUchipudi tradition. What is really interesting is how his compositions have been "adapted" (if you will) to Bharatanatyam! Though I have never seen her perform live (only on film) one can only conclude that Balammma blazed a new trail by including Kshetrajna's padams in her repertoire!! To me it is an interesting example of evolution in art forms.

How about items like Bhama kalapam - is it also performed in bharatanatyam?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Sep 2008, 07:34

Nanndagopal, thank you! But please take what I have said as only a general outline. I have to keep repeating that I am not an expert.

I have not seen something like bhAmA kalApam in bharatanATyam - but am not sure if the bhAgavata mELa or the mELattUr style may have something like that - anyway, the standard entrance of bhAmA introducing herself is, I think, the typical praveSa daruvu. Sri Vempati Chinna Satyam uses these daruvus in his dance dramas to great effect.

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 16 Sep 2008, 13:29

very informative
http://www.kuchipudi.com/home.cfm

parimalphadke · Post by **parimalphadke** » 16 Sep 2008, 17:39

I am catching up with this thread pretty late---

There was this recent link to a Tanjore Quartet pdf document which I dowloaded from one of the threads , I think that thread will answer some of the interesting questions raised here.

Answering the very first question which started the thread--

As a dancer my self I feel the rasika-s go thru three leves of appreciation--

1) The absolute beginners level-- This is the level where they concentrate over the external aspect of the dancer , the angika and the aharya aspect is the focus. Angila -- the body language and the aharya -- the costume s/he wears.

2) The second level is the intermediate level-- Where the rasika starts understanding the purpose of the angika , starts understanding the relationship with the form and the content of that style which he likes . S/he appreciates the non verbal communication aspect of dance and the visual music which it creates thru its several compositions . This stage comes after the rasika has watched several performances , it goes without saying that the rasika needs to be a sumanasaha prekshakaha ( discerning audience) according the Natyashashtra. The discerning power depends on his consistency of viewing the performances as well as his/her upbringing in other art forms ( which could be literature , fine arts , music etc.)

3) Connoisseur's level-- This stage comes after thorough observation , analysis and study of that dance style. It is in this stage that the rasika questions the artiste /choreographer for the choice of text , music and it's relation with the choreographic interpretation.

Abhinayadarpana gives a beautiful shloka of the ideal sabha saying-- The Sabha should be like the wishing tree with vedas as its branches , shastra-s as the flowers and the knowledgable rasika seeking the nectar of knowledge.

This is the ideal situation .

For a contemporary sabha , it consists of three kinds of audiences --

1) Uniniated
2) Initiaited
3) Connoisseur

An artiste should be able to communicate his ideas and interpretations to all the three kinds of audiences. Since , communication is the purpose and ideal communication should ( ideally) lead to elevation of the spirit.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Sep 2008, 20:24

Parimal,

Awesome! This is exactly what we were looking for - an artist's perception (more authentic than my armchair perceptions for certain!). Can you also go through some of the technical stuff I have posted and correct misconceptions?

THANKS!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 01:00

Parimal.
Great post. My! It applies to all forms of the arts!
I ran through my mind a few performers, writers and painters.The communicative kind of artiste, one who almost reaches the ideal kind of communicative abilities with all the three kind of audiences, makes his or her mark in my book!

DanceKala · Post by **DanceKala** » 20 Sep 2008, 18:17

shankar,
wow! I am humbled by your profound knowledge in the nuances of dance. Thanks for sharing it with us all. This is good for the others as well VGV, Arasi, Parimal and others! Thanks to all of you for your invaluable contributions.

-dancekala

parimalphadke · Post by **parimalphadke** » 22 Sep 2008, 10:43

Shankar,

Hats off to you for making this discussion so interesting.

Cheers

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 22 Sep 2008, 17:38

Parimal/Kala,

THANKS! Please chime in with explanations for technical details where needed.

DanceKala · Post by **DanceKala** » 26 Sep 2008, 07:15

Shankar,
I am catching up with this thread pretty late. Is it true that Kuchipudi dancers, well-versed ones can draw pictures using just their feet?...pretty amazing I thought. All this while, i was under the impression it is all movie stuff.
Another thing I heard from her was that jathis in kuchipudi are so fast that they rarely fit into Taalam...I am not sure if this is the case. Can anyone throw some light on this?

Best
dancekala

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Sep 2008, 08:37

Another thing I heard from her was that jathis in kuchipudi are so fast that they rarely fit into Taalam...I am not sure if this is the case. Can anyone throw some light on this?

I do not know why 'speed' contributes to not fitting in a thalam. Because, with any thalam, you can fit in any speed, pretty much. There are several other ways in which something need not fit into a traditional thala. Consider the general structure of an 8 beat thala. Each beat consist of sub-beats ( which contributes to the nadai ). If they do not keep the same number of sub-beats to the beat, or vary the duration of sub-beats in non-traditional fashion, then it would not fit into the traditional thala. I am not saying this is what happens, but just listing some speculative possibilities.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 26 Sep 2008, 11:08

If the jathis are composed properly and they are rendered properly then they will perfectly fit to the talam, be it bharatanatyam or kuchipudi.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 26 Sep 2008, 20:54

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/09/26/stor ... 050300.htm

Anyone who attends this conference can enlighten us more about kucipuDi and differences from other styles. I learnt that the original repertoire was in just 4 rAgas. Amazing!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Sep 2008, 09:58

Kala,

I think that drawing pictures with footwork was not part of the original kucipuDi repertoire, but rather, a part of the mArgam of the kalAvantulu (the Andhra equivalent of the dEvaraDiyAr/iSai vELAlar community of TN) who participated in the nATya sEvA in temples. Unless I am mistaken, this is part of vilAsini nrityam or AndhrA nATyam, being revived and popularized by experts such as Smt. Swapnasundari. Here is a link to an article about these - simhanandini, mayUra kauttuvam, and mahAlakSmi udbhavam:

http://www.narthaki.com/info/articles/art117.html

But, this has found its way into the repertoire of the kucipuDi soloist these days. Here is a clip of the multi-talented Ms. Mallika Sarabhai - the first part is the typical praveSa daruvu where satyabhAmA introduces herself - she them demonstrates dancing on a pot (which some of the students of the mELattUr style of bharatanATyam also do), and finally you see the artwork with footwork sequences starting from about 3:20 into the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrZ4VPDymQ

Here is a more traditional pravESa daruvu - bhAmanE - from Smt. Uma Muralikrishna - it is not complete, but it does show how the tIrmAnams, and the 'taTTimeTTus' are different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc4d8qFzS34&NR=1

And this is another favorite of mine - rukmiNi pravESam - also truncated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ5I9Azs ... re=related

DanceKala · Post by **DanceKala** » 02 Oct 2008, 01:21

Thanks for the links, Shankar! Truly amazing.

avnipriya · Post by **avnipriya** » 08 Oct 2008, 02:14

rshankar wrote:Nandagopal,

I meant to respond to this, but obviously, I have forgotten about it! Thanks for the excerpt from Sruti. Makes interesting reading, both about the practice and the livelihood!

Here is an example of a Sabdam that doesn't use kAmbhOjI:

http://i37.tinypic.com/16aw18m.jpg

The recording is a commercial one.

Could you post the whole pages of this booklet,please ?