Sruti for male voice

[Sundar Krishnan]

martin said in msg 45 :

I would propose, to keep some order: ...

While the idea of "- suffix" and "+ suffix" to distinguish betn "diminished" and "sharp" is good,

I would like you to compare with the earlier msg 6 or msg 42

and pl check if "in the proposed order", the foll will need correction :

from :

3- 2,5 Eb G1
3 3 E G2

7- 6,5 Bb N1
7 7 B N2


to :

3- 2,5 Eb G2
3 3 E G3

7- 6,5 Bb N2
7 7 B N3

[martin]

Martin, This Table of yrs in Msg No 45 is better !!
(This answers the kattai query in our emails, in a better way.)

I also like the idea of the "- suffix" and "+ suffix" to distinguish betn >>>>"diminished" and "sharp"<<<<<

These terms are not used properly here as they do not occur as such.
As the scale is diatonic, from C, with the chromatic notes derived from the naturals (shuddh notes CDEFGAB)
the - represents a flat or a flattened note that can refer to 2,3,6,7 only. Without - these are natural, shuddh notes.
To come from the shuddh-note scale to Kalyani/Yaman we need tivra ma, and only there does the + come in, to raise it to an augmented fourth.

I will restate, using WCM- and Hindustani terms the names of the respective svaras and the interval-relation to tonic Sa:
C - Sa - tonic
Db - komal re - minor or flattened second
D - shuddh re - major second
Eb - komal ga - minor or flattened third
E - shuddh ga - major or natural third
F - shuddh ma - perfect fourth
F# - tivra ma - raised, or augmented fourth (in the west sometimes ref. to as Lydian 4th)
G - pa - perfect fifth
Ab - komal dha - minor or flattened sixth (ref. to as Dorian 6th)
A - shuddh dha-major or natural sixth
Bb - komal ni - minor or flattened seventh
B - shuddh ni - major or natural seventh

further, in WCM the fifth is not fixed as in ICM as it not like cricket as you know it, and on tonic function C, G can go both ways: Gb is a diminished 5th, G# an augmented 5th. One step further is diminishing already flattened notes, like the diminished second Dbb (on keyboard enharmonic to C) or raising already sharpened notes as in : F# - F## (enharmonic on keyboard to G)

Wrt above post, if you move up one nr. on Ga and Ni, where will you put supposed nrs. 1?

[martin]

Wrt above post, if you move up one nr. on Ga and Ni, where will you put supposed nrs. 1?

Maybe this last line was overlooked? To Sundar Krishnan: If you want to renumber and extend to three Ga's and Ni's in this very basic scheme, where will you put the supposed nrs. 1 ?
Clarity through simplicity is the reason behind a scheme but also in this case it is a theoretic approach and should not be held for what in musical reality is desireable. For a verbal or written communication the 'keyboard-idea' of having 12 semitones in an octave, seven diatonic and five chromatic is practical. In actual performance the various svaras find their exact places and internal relations and so their specific character. For this very reason, special sruti positions are often coupled to a certain raga and it seems necessary to maintain this relation and to refer to it as often as possible because only in raga will svaras become alive, not in theory.
And even if in two ragas the ati-komal dha would be identical, the way it is approached, how long or fleeting it is sung etc. etc. makes up for the rest of it.