basic parameters have not changed since the Natyashastra or Sangitaratnakara. Again, I am commenting on those basic parameters of excellence
What are those parameters? If you had already written about this elsewhere in this forum, please point me to that.
Also, that is going quite a way back. When do you think the decadence and degradation started to set in, in terms of not following the prescriptions of excellence mentioned in those two books?
What is confusing to me now is, after I read your post in the morning, I happened to listen to an excellent Bhairavi by MLV ( Thanayuni ). Is that a degraded version of bhairavi or in general degraded Indian Classical Music? If so, in what way it has deviated from the above parameters? If it has deviated, would fixing them make it any better for these modern times? I thought it was pretty good but then that is all I ever knew as a high water mark of excellence ( as per my tastes and liking ). I definitely belong to the dabbler category you mention, so I should not be labeling it one way or the other.
arunk wrote:The simple fact is the people who appreciate the music today, appreciate because they like it - exactly the way it is - including its technical aspects - yes the exact same music that you say "is repetitive, noisy, trivial and aesthetically devoid". It is a colossal mistake to paint broad strokes based on such strong prejudices - and you are not the first one to do this either. Again, where have I heard this before?
SR
I see that you are immensely talented in writing compositions and you have a strong opinion and not always sitting in the fence (We need more of you types here). You keep telling in different posts that we have to look into the future and bring new perspectives. Could you sum the action items at a high level of what you think needs to be done(only the do's and not complain with the dont's or the false negatives) please .
I am assuming and presupposing you may come up with some excellent ideas looking at your quality posts (see I am judging your future posts only with your past posts ). As VK said you dont have to quit this thread. You can always continue here in this thread.
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In Literature and in discussions on IM-both HM and CM, there is strong current of insecurity, fear, pain, anguish and anxiety, about the future. The thought stream goes like - Previous times are Golden period-present is full of chaos and decadence-future is uncertain and doomsday, certain! But, are they factual ? Vehemently, I say, NO. Nature's order is-shristi(ceation/creativity)-sthithi(managing efficiently the present)-pralaya(end or cessation of all that is created and being maintained. Good-Badly-Ugly are features of any times, immemorial. Our sense of insecurity, fears for changes, threat of our comfort zone/pleasure memories, with inherent weakness for affirmative actions, make us bemoan the era/legacy passed away, as escapist wonderful tool.
Doyen of CM, late DR.Sandhyavandanam Srinivasa Rao, in one of his Lec-Demos, stated that " can we say for sure and confidently that from Shankara/Sarawathi - Narada-Nandi-Matanaga- Music trinity/Kshetragana/others-Tiger/Ariyakkudi/Maharajapuram/Musiri/Alatthur Bros/Madurai Mani Iyer/GNB/DKP/MS/MLV/many others-present Great Maestros/Maestros/Vidwans & Vidushis, the IM has been in decadence ? No. There were, there are and there will be, birth of Geniuses/Great Maestros-with immense contributions enriching the Classical Excellence in Tradition and death for the works/contributions of dubious values-leaving only their stain/stench, at times. If the artist, uncompromisingly, keeps his music, simply classical, he/she serves the cause. Rasikas, becoming knowledgeable on Classical values and 'ruchi' and 'suchi' aspects in IM, completely enjoying , constantly demanding , offering unstinted support and resources, serve the cause. If IM becomes, music for the masses, all agencies-Govt/Private/Media will join the bandwagon, for their own vested interests. Our present challenge is to take IM-both HM and CM to the masses".
Factually, with more than average intelligence, good education, making the better use of technological advancements, power of wealth creation, the reach going beyond geographical limitations, the present generation of artists and rasikas have immense power and demonstrated potential to enrich the Classical Excellence in tradition of IM, with clarity on Goals and Values of our rich IM heritage.
As Vedanta urges, ARISE and AWAKE, rest will be done !
coolkarni wrote:The vision that I am talking about now , though , is specific to the issue raised by the original poster.
So your suggestion is that what you have been doing on a personal level in the last few years should be done on an organizational level to give it the momentum it needs?
If that is the plan, can you spearhead it? You can take all the help and resources from the group to do it. This does not mean you need to devote all your time, but it means that being the person with the most clarity (and the experience), you can put everything and everyone else in the right direction.
I think many of us here would be interested in giving it a try (and that includes me).
No need for such belligerence. You believe that the current state of art is aesthetically and technically void of value, I believe otherwise. Like I said, you are not the first one to think so, and I am sure I am not the only one with my point of view either.
There is one thing common between your ideas and the ideas of those (clock rollbackers) you want to distance yourself from. It is rooted in the thought "this isn't it ought to be as it isn't up to the aesthetic value standards I would like-for/expect-from it". The reference point for aesthetic values standards for the others is the past. Yours is a future but based on what you value as the "good from the past" + what you value as new good ideas. Of course you think that value is derived from insight, reflection as well as technical merits. I am not saying not - just that it is still your standards. And more tellingly, you are harshly judging any many people based on that. So have the clock rollbackers.
So, ultimately you want the art to go to a place where you place a high value upon. Those people who think that the highest value was achieved in the past also do exactly that. You think that they are wrong in their presumption that such a thing was achieved in the past. To repeat, I think your entire premise is based on your own value standards.
So there IS a difference between your point and theirs. You find that difference to mean the world, I just don't - I find them all the same at the root. Call it half-baked, uninformed, crack-jack, opinionated - whatever. It doesn't matter although it is just my opinion. You said it like you saw it. So did I.
Arun
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Also to clarify, I am NOT against any attempt to improve the art - I am all for it - all art needs that - and actually any art actively practiced inherently does that. So I am not saying "it needs no further change".
I just do not believe that the art as it is now has no value and because of that it is on a downward spiral to oblivion. However, it may certainly need to change/evolve/improve to adapt to a changing world - and cm has one that really, within its parameters - and on occasion extending them. Of course all this is my opinion. I value it - but I don't require all to buy it or for most treat it with high merit either.
Arun
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coolkarni wrote:With the act of meeting the request of an artist for a specific Krithi , atleast once a week.
I think I have approached Kji for a track more than once in several weeks - and he has always come back with gold unearthed from his database. Imagine how many people like me must be approaching him - It is much much more than once a week
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coolkarni wrote:The far left and the far right have much more in common with each other than either does with the middle.
I have had this opinion too. The most brilliant person usually acts like the least brilliant. This analogy applies to almost everything. It's a paradox, as is anything worth exploring.
By the way, there is no "middle" since its all like dots along a circle.
Bringing political concepts into discussion of musical aesthetics is inane at best. Idle speculations and quackery, nothing more. That is the last I have to say on this matter.
Balance sheet is an annual process beginning from vouchers to journals to trial balance to profit & loss A/c to Balance sheet.
Vouchers are music aspirants with exceptional talent.
Journal entries are Sabha platforms.
Trial balance credit side is the musical talent and debit side is the pressures from sponsors, bigshots, bigwigs, preferences of secretaries, whims and fancies of "Committee members", apathy of mike managers and other such factors
Profit and loss Account can show profit only if sponsors and their ilk are satisfied. Loss is a bad word in western terminology and more so when many Indians are aping the west in everything. At least the people of western countries justify their being like that. But many of us are hell bent on caricaturing our culture on lampoons and justifying the same from the western angle. So profits are important. If profits are good then stakeholders are benefited.
Balance sheet are the assets and liabilities.
Musically talented artists are assets and sponsors, secretaries, sabhas, corporate world, haute society and cultural hypocrites who know not what real music is, are liabilities.
In modern times both are balanced.
Naturally choice of assets depends on the liabilities. The choice hovers around artists who fill the coffers and enhance profit.
Aesthetics, ethics, values and cultural ethos are by-standers and probably bad debts.
Rasikas are social auditors.
Most of the auditors dwell upon the how aspect and forget the why aspect. If auditors feel that cultural tableau does not depend on profits or if auditors pick assets who have every other aspect except push and pull from the stakeholders, probably profits may dwindle yet culture and traditional paths may not perish. In a way if auditors prefer such assets (without any backing liabilities) then in the long run both profits and culture might flourish.
Dear Coolji, How nice and convenient it is to escape? You want to forward the list of dos and donts to me and feel relaxed as I am already and always on the track of brickbats to receive. amsharma
coolkarni wrote:
The more remote it is , the worthier .
Coolji,
I am as far from Chennai as possible, any farther I will be closer.
Given my utter lack of knowledge in music, can I chip in anyway? My only advantage is my interest in CM.
PS: Happy to have met you at SKGS. Sorry could not talk to you. We had to leave during the middle of the concert as my wife and second kid were waiting for us at a friend's house.
Like all art I would like to see Carnatic music evolve by adopting technology, experimenting in some areas while still keeping the core spirit of the form the same. I wonder how things will change in my lifetime. We've seen a real transformation of the Indian musical forms in the last century, especially in the latter half, with the development of film music and WM fusion styles. These have cross pollinated some ideas into CM and HM - like the introduction of new instruments, new aesthetic standards and styles back and forth from CM/HM/film music, new modes of circulating music, and even discussion forums like this one where artists and people who are beginners and connoisseurs alike exchange ideas.
With the technology advances in communication, musical instruments, and the proliferation of information and books about music, it is much easier to get people into the musical fold, and I believe Carnatic and Hindustani music should adopt new technologies.
I like the spirit and idea behind Margazhi ragam. IMHO we could use more people like TMK and some of the other promising artists out there who are sincere to their work and have a real passion for it. Is there a free book that introduces ordinary people to Carnatic/Hindustani music and aspects of its appreciation? I remember "A Gentle Introduction to Carnatic Music" by Ramesh Mahadevan on the internet which was a very readable primer and a jargon buster for Carnatic music. Are there similar books/ebooks for the Hindustani tradition? In addition, are there efforts to write detailed technical articles on aspects Carnatic music such as Raga, Tala, Bhava, Laya, Sahitya, etc? I'm not a very knowledgeable person as far as CM is concerned (and even less knowledgeable on HM) being self-taught, but I can help in any way possible with any such efforts.
Now, shall I have to practice hard to increase my frame from 2 feet to 4 feet wide to fulfil your wish? Nope! If needed I shall attend at that occasion. amsharma
Dhanvendra,
How about important pat of Balance Sheet- Reserves ?
I strongly feel and desire that the rasikas-all the fellow members of rasikas.org-must become pro active, while continueing to ideation, debating and enjoying the fun. To start with, identify and select, atleast two institutions of proven excellence and presitge. Sponsor a series-exclusively with the theme of celebration of classical exccellance-tradtion in IM-HM and CM-Concerts, lec-demos and Q& A sessions- consisting of artists of unquestionable credentials and merits-having Great Maestros-Maestros-high potential vidwans/vidushis, including the up coming/new talents-from Kerala-Karnataka-Andhra Pradesh-Other regions and Tamil Nadu. To ensure spirited and active participation of all the stake holders. To ensure Max.promotion and publicity, with solid preparations on the theme, it's objectives & goals and the artists, well in advance. To ensure full and active attendance by our members-rasikas. To make top class event management, including attractive and sumptuous food. The timing, either preferably 7 days in advance or at the end of the December Music festival.
Event Management experts in our members or professionals out side, to work out the Budget and logistics. The resources required, as per the Budget, are to be arranged through sponsors, our members and the rasikas, who commit the funds-through donor passes.
On the vital aspect of invitation to the meritorious artists, our expert members commitee should make selection and recommendation, in consultation and general agreement of all the other stake holders. Let us plan, atleast six months in advance, if not twelve months. Let us ideate and work out frame work for the success and total avoidance of failure of this MODEL event. The success of the event, will give us many lessons and lead us to achieve our passionate innate desire for taking the IM to masses. Later we can focus on making the success of IM, at Global levels-truly.
munirao2001
Reserves are the best part of the Balance Sheet. Resourcefulness of people like you who can think out of the box constitute the reserves
It is an excellent and practical suggestion put forth by you. Its time for action rather than empty prattle. The MODEL you suggest must be taken seriously. Going by the way members of rasikas.org respond to many of the threads, it seems that many of us are subjective rather than objective. We take arguments personally and resort to crude and sharp language. This is because we are all bothered about who is right instead of what is right. Your suggestion can be practically implemented once we all mature to the level of what is correct. Otherwise when the panel decides on the artists it will be free for all battle in respect of which artist is better than the rest. Many of the rasikas in this forum are aware of only the artists who are commercially successful and among these successful artists, a few are just 3 to 6 years old in the Kutchery circuit. Within this 3 or 6 years their luck, pluck, social status and contacts take them to the ticket slot. Many rasikas respect only such artists and attribute icon status to them and start comparing them to the moon. Again the MODEL will end up the same way for which the whole thing began!!!! Again a Catch 22 situation.
However i hope your idea takes concrete shape and the dream come true. my best wishes
Ramanji
Rasikas are auditors and it is mentioned in my earlier message.
Simply put, if a rasika feels puffed up that an artist is being unnecessarily propped up beyond his or her talent owing to other factors than merit, the best course is to avoid the concerts of such artists. But for that we need to have more than cursory interest in the depths of wholesome music that truely reflects our culture!! More such rasikas, safer our musical balance sheet.
We need to be educated auditors instead of being only emotional auditors.
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Auditors, used in the rasikas context means listeners. You mean to say that to emotionally respond is inferior or is only secondary to being educated? i am afraid this may restrict the number of people who would otherwise listen to music.
However different we all are in rasana, it seems that we are all drawn to music because of the following, or a blend of these aspects in us: bhakti, musical aesthetics, love for the lyrics, the excitement of laya and so on. These are responses which are emotional.
Analysing and parsing music can only be valid if you have gone throgh the emotional experience and THEN want to know the svarUpam of what moves you. It is necessary too, to some extent. I agree.
As for teaching music, while the grammar of it is part of it, it should not be overemphasized so that what the student learns is scientifically correct, but emotively poor. While we marvel at the expertise of the theorists, that is not the main reason for our listening to music.
I am of the opinion that vital ' Reserves' part of Balance sheet should be the real, true love, passion, commitment, dedication and will to contribute the resources-without stings attached, affirmative action for Indian Music, reflecting the inherent strength and capacity for investment decision for growth and development.
I desire that with agreement on the theme of 'Celebration of Classical Excellence in Indian Music-KM and HM', well debated, clarity on Classical Excellence-with primacy only for merit, understanding at the starting point and firmly sticking to the ideal and objective, bold action for weeding away the bad elements/influences/actions during the process of achieving the success, professional excellence in total management of the event, the results can be achieved, to the total satisfaction of all the stakeholders.
I honestly feel that responses, decisions and actions of the members will prove, how serious and committed we are. In abscence, stark reality of having time engaging play and fun, without any will for serious efforts and actions by the members only will come out clearly and strike us!
I am optimistically, waiting for the response of the members, for the present.
arasi
Why do we always commit the mistake of treating the 'theory' and 'practical' as different, independent and are divergent ? Fact is, in the music context, the theory(lakshana)-science-mostly evolved out of the practical-lakshya-art. With the original thnking and innovation, theory also developed independent of the practical aspect. The development accepted and put in to practice, becomes lakshya gnanam, in due course of time. Both are integral part and complementary. I am deeply concened with the general and free opinion that, aspects of theory are not for enjoyment. It is also vital part of the enjoyment because, with the knowledge, finer aspects of lakshya music is really understood and appreciated.
Unfortunately, with this stong opinion ingrained, many of the lakshana & Lakshya artists of eminence are identified as only 'theorists'-musicologists and do not get the recognition and opportunities to perform. I know many Great Maestros/Maestros lamenting that when we want to sing, they invite us only for talking(about music)-in telugu language 'pata cutcheriki pilavaka, mata cutcheriki pilustaru'.
I wish that there will be change in thinking and actions, soon.
"There is no decay that is substantial(there is considerable overlap of excellence between erstwhile semmangudi mama and today's prasanna venkataraman)"
May i ask what this means? I am curious to understand what you mean to say by this statement, which left me confused.
Munirao,
I don't think we are thinking 'that' differently! From accountants, if we move on to physicians (to make my point a bit more understandable), it is not as if I am saying that all that the doctors need is good bedside manners! Of course it is understood that they are trained in anatomy, neurology and all other branches of medicine! And with all the best knowledge, if they do not handle their patients with care and kindness, I won't like to be treated by them.
With young students, it is the love for music (which we all have inherent in us as humans which may go untapped) that we have to work with. To force-feed the technical stuff may result in their being proficient and scientific in their skills without having a soul in it.
I am not saying, do away with structure! Nor are you saying, do away with the emotive side of music, I think...
I think understanding how things work is essential for performers and practitioners. I am not sure if it ought to be necessary for the consumers. Some consumers may find that it improves their appreciation (i am one of them), but different people appreciate music differently and at different levels.
In fact a case can be made that if you have to teach the technicals to make someone appreciate the aesthetics then there is a problem. There are two kinds of technicals: Terminology and theory of operation. Most technically minded lay rasikas are about terminology. That is useful in talking about music related stuff. Theory Of Operation level technicals are not necessary to appreciate the art and may some times hinder it.
If I have not been able to communicate my thoughts effectively so far: Arun,
Now we turn consumers! Remember the ad: an educated consumer is our best customer? Of course, I believe in it. You also know that I learn, or at least try to learn from your kind!
Yes, I am with you and V Kokilam. My only concern is that when it comes to learners, the theory should not be pushed so hard as to impair the natural instincts of music in a child. Of course, if the child 'wants' to know more of the theory, it is a different story. Both parents and teachers have to be careful in that the love for music is what should be nurtured, with 'performing' being the cart which comes after, if at all; the trend of putting the cart before the horse in many cases scares me.
arasiji and muniraoji
thanks for the objective responses. this way good and exciting possibilities of keeping musical values intact emerges.
My point was that we need to enjoy emotionally. The bhavam is the essence of any rendition of Indian music. It is this aspect which attracts western musicians not because something is lacking in their music but because something more connects them to the Ultimate rather than mere ecstasy which is transient. However, just because we are emotionally moved for whatever reason it does not necessarily mean we are technically correct. If music was only for enjoyment then emotion alone counts. But if it is to be preserved for posterity, more hard work and dwelling deeper into the intricacies and nuances of music becomes absolutely essential. This is true for the artist, organisers and rasikas alike. Only when the matrix is complete can we preserve completely. This is the orientation of this thread isnt it?
To make it clearer I resort to an analogy.
A sumptuous meal does not begin or end with a sweet. There are different other varieties of preparations which are needed for it to be a fulfilling meal. Just because sweets are emotionally appealing if we always prepare and eat sweets alone, posterity will lose the technical knowhow in other preparations and over generations it would get lost. This is the subtle point which i want to drive.
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(Heads up: A part of this is hypothetical or atleast I am just thinking out aloud. I think technical correctness need not be a mandatory requirement for music to achieve its objectives. But I also do not say technical correctness is completely orthogonal to it. Even if technically correct, other factors such as the listeners frame of mind etc. come into play. These other factors can compensate for the technical correctness)
If something must be preserved for posterity "as is", then the justification should be that it serves the "highest good" to a certain section of people (note the term highest - which is essential if the "as is" clause is to be presumed). Yes in order to do that the rules must be captured so that it can be used for practice over time. No argument there although I will say that "as is" is never achieved in things that humans actively practice, and put their interpretation into it. Humans are not alike - and this eventually will always show. By this token, I would say "strict conformance to any system" is completely unnatural and thus is bound to fail in practice.
But let us also ask what this "highest good" that our music provides? People who strongly believe so say it at its best, it helps a person achieve the Ultimate, and at its normal (i.e. average rasikas) it elevates them spiritually, calms their nerves etc. all while providing enjoyment. But say a person, deeply spiritual, breaks into a viruttam and it completely elevates him/her AND the listener - is the presumption then this is possible only if the music is "technically correct"? I think not - as would'nt it be so ONLY if the listener is (subconsciously) also evaluating the music to see if conforms as in why is it like mukhAri there? Does that swara there seem a little flat? Wouldnt this be an impediment to completely surrendering to the music? (the "pun" there intended)
This is why I say that technicalities do have an important role in an art form, they are not that important to the "good served" by the art form.
Arun
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Yes, and while we are thinking of our children and grandchildren who might keep the appreciation of CM alive and well, this is what I am pointing at: whether parents or they themselves want it or not, most of the children are going to end up as rasikAs and that minority which would go on to perform would do so 'in spite' of all odds. The rest (oh, a lot of them!) need to learn to appreciate music and be spared the high expectations of their parents who want them to perform and outsmart all other kids. Brings to mind today's soccer moms, little league parents, or the 'bad guys and gals of the soap opera Relished Rapports The competitiveness is so intense that the enjoyments of their childhood is all lost to the children. I am not denying that there were pushy parents who had talented children even in our days, but the number was negligible.
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"I am not denying that there were pushy parents who had talented children even in our days, but the number was negligible" - Do we want another MJ with a trajic end to life?
"There is no decay that is substantial(there is considerable overlap of excellence between erstwhile semmangudi mama and today's prasanna venkataraman)"
May i ask what this means? I am curious to understand what you mean to say by this statement, which left me confused.
CC,
I just compared yesteryear jAmbhavAn semmangudi mama and prasanna venkataraman (the choice was just incidental in terms of comparing ssi and a new rising star prasanna, there are many in that league)where I felt they both are capable of producing excellent music .
Also I was implying between that generation of musicians and today's generation , yesteryear generation were excellent and today's generation has a slight dip in quality when compared to SSI generation.
Incidentally when I wrote that in first place it just struck me where prasanna sang a spellbound inthaparAkA in mmgowlai in our rasikas concert at nungambakkam, very very comparable to jAmbhavAn Semmangudi. Infact I had a chance to speak and thank the artist that day , I just said prasanna's inta parAkA is mAyamA glowing . Hope it is completelyclear instead of completelyclueless.
Arasiji has been someone whom i always respect. I agree with her perceptions perhaps more than many others. In fact in a thread regarding pushy parents we have done similar discussions. Here also I agree with her. True that being intellectually knowledgeable and yet not be emotive is of no use. As a rasika I also wont go to such a musician because that does not connect me to the Ultimate. But my point is: being kind and caring always does not make a person a doctor unless he or she has the technical knowledge. I wont risk going to him anyway. One has to be blended with the other. If a rasika is fortunate enough to understand the technical knowledge and relate it with the music offered by musicians and it appeals to the emotional aspect, well this is a perfect recipe for preservation. The role of preservation is not only in the hands of musicians but in the hands of rasikas as well. I cant say preservation is only for the musician because he is the vendor and enjoyment alone is for me because i am a consumer. I too have a responsibility while enjoying music.
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Thank you Dhanavendra! Who knows, there amay be others out there who might not want to hear from me that much
Yes, the blend is ideal, but how many times can we expect the ideal in a performance?
Let me make this clear too. Just as I would not dream of going to a doctor on his kindnesss alone, I would not like a child to go learn from a teacher who is kindness itself and nothing more! In both cases, proficiency in their given field is vital. Otherwise, you wouldn't hear from gurus who would say that while the child is musical, to make him 'unlearn' all that he has learnt from a previous guru is a big hurdle!
I am getting disturbed and deeply worried with the lack of clarity and understanding on some of the vital aspects of Music. In my thread,'Stle is not Tradition', reply/posts in other threads -CM and enlightenment and Music & Mysticism, I have attempted to bring clarity and understanding. With your consents, taken for granted, let me attempt to dwell on these vital aspects, once again:
1) Experience become knowledge. Knowledge becomes Tradition. Tradition becomes immortal, with enrichment. Novelty and Excitement values etc, not capable of enrichment, die or fade away, many a times, leaving a stain or stench. Enrichment happens only with fresh, new, creative, innovative experience and knowledge, which meets the requrement of classical excellence, undisputedly and clearly. Tradition-classical excellence-does not shut out rich additions, which have demonstrated quality of time tested and ever lasting and truly delivers total satisfaction, meeting the goals of the music.
2) In the ideal of acquistion of very good knowledge of both Lakshya and Lakshnana gnanam, primacy is always for lakshya, over the lakshana. But, lakshana is also well structured to train, equip and deliver
emotional satisfaction. The factor of differentiation vests, solely on the degree of deliverance of satisfaction. Choice is made on the strength of capability for repeatability, higher potential for recall experiences deliverance and consistency in delivery. The critical factors of character , trait, and talent - derivatives of instinct and intution and the strength of practce, makes or contributes for the determination of difference. The lack of quality or low quality is definitely not reflection on the theory or it's perceived or attributed limitations.
3) The evolution of Classical Music, growth and development, in perpetual continuity, stands testimony to the fact, that there will be no dearth of Great Maestros. Constant comparitions, relation, fortified thought of unsurpassable( which leads to the statements -'One and one only' 'Not born before and not going to be borne, herein after-Na Bhooto, Na Bhavishyati), are the results of weakness of the mind-sence of insecurity or fear for the change( loss of memorable experiences, immensely atisfactory).
Vidwan/Vidushi-Maestro become Great Maestro, when they achieve and deliver the ultimate goal in music-Chitta Sudhi-striking and intellectually satisfying. Competencies levels of others , will be on deliverance of satisfaction of excitement, pleasing, stimulating, scincillating and admirable qualities of music. Great Maestros music will also have most of these qualities, with good sense of proportion. Maestros also become Great Maestros, with the quality of setting the trend, proving to be inspirational and role models.
4) With vast majority of us unwilling to think independently and unconditionally, inquire, to seek, determine, being decisive and own it, we take the escapist route or easy route of accepting the popular choice. We support the choice with full strength, to make the choice unique, one's own and even glorify to overcome the guilt of our inaction or limitations. Only few dare to be different. They guarantee and ensure the continuity of real and proven excellence.
5) Weakness for success-acceptance of the majority of the attributes, is real. Competition and to win/consummate is nature's order and is fact. The judgement on actions, positive and negetive, are only the result of influences and product of the end result. To retain the sucess or to get over the failiure, with minimal effect or ideally with equanimity, is determining factor of character. Truly, one's own making and attainment. Excuses and finding fault with others, are the results of weakness in the character.
I now urge all the rasikas to strive for clarity and understanding. Truly, enjoy. Factually and really support the idea with dedication, committment and action- the cause of Classical Excellence in Tradition.
munirao2001 - very powerful statement. When Moses came down the mountain after getting the commandmentss from Lord, a few of Moses friends waiting in the valley asked Moses how did it go? Moses answered I was able to contain the commandments to 10? The question is how many of these commandments are being truly followed? What I mean is, if the commandments do not come from within us, it has no ownership and it will not be followed. Challenge - do the rasikAs have ownership to dedication, committment and action?
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ramanji
we will be less confused if we understand chapter III of Bhagavat Gita.
Karma yogah eva jayati. first let us try to understand our Dharmah and try to understand other things later.
when the Lord himself has spoken why do we need a translator. It is the translators who confuse and contain. its because we don't understand samskritah as it is, like our mother tongue, we need english translators who can at best try to give near real meaning and beat round the bush. (Commentaries are larger than the slokahs). same way, if we can understand the technicalities of music ourselves we can enjoy and preserve better. that is our karma yoga as rasikas. To be an Indian classical music rasika (priya) is like going on the chakkani marga of Spirituality and Divinity. Being such a musician is being nearer to God. But being nearer to God is a talk task and requires lot of sacrifices and going on the royal path to Divinity also requires sacrifices.
muniraoji is beckoning us from where he has reached on the chakkani marga. he is a karma yogi in this regard. why not make a try to reach him.
arasiji
when blend is the ideal, goal is the ideal. only when goal is reached can we reach the ultimate. all other joy is transient. so striving to reach the goal can only take us near bliss and the fortunate among us can reach bliss. anyway, Indian classical music, especially carnatic music is the chakkani marga towards the goal. is nt it? correct me if i am wrong. i need not be correct and i dont want to be an armchair advisor. I try to practise what i feel is on the right side of Dharma. Ultimately music, like spirituality, has to be experienced and not talked about right? the more we talk, it appears like the story of five blind men feeling an elephant. each one gives his opinion and all taken together is only true. although one version or feeling alone may be partially true but it is not the whole Truth
Last edited by Dhanavendra on 01 Aug 2009, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
VKRaman
1) The Best and Right way, with out an iota of doubt, is self-inquiry, achieving the knowledge of truth, burst forth in actions and realization. As this calls for really, extremely difficult, tough, deeply meditative, contemplative, analytical , unconditional thinking and firm resolve for action- majority look for inspiration, guidance, practical advice on action, to get the clarity and understanding. Finally, one acts, with conviction. Conviction happens only with full sense of ownership, desire and drive. Another eminently possible cause for action is, taking action with total faith or trust in the leading light-Ista Devatha or Ista Guru/teacher, with belief in achieving success. The success is one's own. Results are for one's own benefit and enjoyment. Results can also lead to sharing, intentionally or unintentionally.
2) Majority of the rasikas, follow the successful leader. They gain confidence in achieving the result-enjoyment, through acceptance of the ideas, advice and actions of the leader/leadership. Leadership quality and actions determine the degree of acceptance, dedication, committment, support and actions.
As many of the fellow members expressed dissatisfaction or changes for the better, in improvement of the present status of KM/CM/IM in their posts/replies and keenly and genuinely desire for the glory of KM/CM/IM, globally, I have taken the initiative for offering clarity and understanding on Tradition-Classical Excellence in IM, with humility. I have also urged for leadership and action, to achieve the ideal and the result. I am excitedly looking for total support of the majority of the rasikas, in quick time and in right earnestness. I have full fatih and trust in the youthful generation for leadership.
Our Balance sheet is like the one in the following story.
Once a big landlord owning a lot of estates in distant places appointed an accountant to look after the accounts so that he could satisfy himself that all his estates are intact. He was appointed because he could do very good accounting and write the Balance Sheet without any flaw. One of the estates was a Sandalwood forest in Karnataka. One day the forest official came running to the land lord and told him that all the sandalwood trees have been cut and taken away. The land lord immediately called the accountant and fired him for not informing him of the loss. He scrutinized the accounts and said that there was no loss because the value of the asset is intact in the books !
We are talking just like the accountant when we say that the wealth of CM is intact. The essence is lost and what remains is the residue.
Who can replace the wealth we have lost ? Have we got a replacement for Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer, Patnam Subramaniya Iyer, Harikesanallur Muthaiah Bhagavathar, Sarabha Sastrigal, Tanjai Naryanswamy Appa, Palakkadu Anantharama Bhagavathar, Mangudi Chidambara Bhagavathar, Madurai Pushpavanam, Veenai Dhanammal, Mamoondiya Pillai, Pudukkottai Dakshinamoorthy Pillai, Azhaganambia Pillai, Thirumarugal Natesa Pillai,and other stalwarts ?
Where have the masters who added new techniques of their own and enriched CM like flute Mali, Veena Balachandar, Madurai Mani Iyer, Palghat Mani Iyer, Pazhani Subbudu, T.Viswanathan, Malai Kottai Govindswamy Pillai, T.N.Rajarathnam Pillai, Malaikottai Panchami, Veena Sheshanna, M.S.Subbulakshmi, DKP and others, gone ? Is there any one to take their place ? Can any one even think of replacing MSG, Lalgudi and TNK and their tremendous knowledge of CM ?
There is a great deal of support for experiments in CM, Fusion, Duets with musicians of other systems, Duets with foreign instruments, bringing in elements of other systems etc. It is the case " the old order changing yielding place to new"
Nothing new can ever be created without destroying "the old". There is no enrichment, only transformation happens, where one thing becomes another, and that thing becomes yet another, and so on...
We cannot create anything. We are not creators, we only fool around with what exists and convert them to new things according to our fancies.
One cannot accept the new without discarding the old.
). As VK said you dont have to quit this thread. You can always continue here in this thread.