just one?? :rolleyes:jayaram wrote:it's all your fault! you always include at least one tricky question.
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May be I should have gone with the swaras instead of looking at the range for mAyadantha maLe bantaNNa ..
Gone for a toss there!
BTW, the folk section was the toughest. Detecting the phrases, as well as allied rAga section were quite easy.
The single note section was indeed novel
-Ramakriya

BTW, the folk section was the toughest. Detecting the phrases, as well as allied rAga section were quite easy.
The single note section was indeed novel

-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 03 Feb 2007, 05:45, edited 1 time in total.
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The kurinji song has a strong resemblance to Sita kalyana vaibhogame of Sri T's utsava sampradaya kritis. Some say it is in Shankarabharanam (i remember it was in a sangeetha cassette long ago), some say it is in Kurinji. Which is the correct one ?
I must have caught the wrong sruti again for the first folk song, i heard it went like S n p , S n p and "guessed" it had madhyamvati notes.
The vakulabharaNa was a bit easy to guess as it sounded like mayamalavagaula yet had the N2.
The rishabha and nishada put me off, as ive not trained to just capture sancharas in a short period. Nevertheless it was very educative.
I must have caught the wrong sruti again for the first folk song, i heard it went like S n p , S n p and "guessed" it had madhyamvati notes.
The vakulabharaNa was a bit easy to guess as it sounded like mayamalavagaula yet had the N2.
The rishabha and nishada put me off, as ive not trained to just capture sancharas in a short period. Nevertheless it was very educative.
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Vasya - same with me for the 3rd - I think the intervals were identifiable but the sruthi takes some guessing! I was lazy on folk 5 and went for Nadanamakriya instead of trying to get the notes. 2 of the folk songs were quite carnatic-ish and easily identifiable
Also slipped up on Punnagavarali which is not a raga I am very familiar with. Rest were quite easy
Allied ragas section was the easiest of all - except I still don't follow how Behag fits into the first triplet - maybe it uses M2 on occasion? Nayaki Durbar I suppose the only question was which is which and even that was quite clear.
Nishada-Rishabam section was another challenging round - I was not sure about Kalyani - I could make out that it was Kakali Nishadam with D2 mixed in - thought it smacked of Gowri Manohari but went for the safe answer in the end. Sahana was also somewhat dicey but the one I got wrong was B-Saranga - I went for Abheri
Also slipped up on Punnagavarali which is not a raga I am very familiar with. Rest were quite easy
Allied ragas section was the easiest of all - except I still don't follow how Behag fits into the first triplet - maybe it uses M2 on occasion? Nayaki Durbar I suppose the only question was which is which and even that was quite clear.
Nishada-Rishabam section was another challenging round - I was not sure about Kalyani - I could make out that it was Kakali Nishadam with D2 mixed in - thought it smacked of Gowri Manohari but went for the safe answer in the end. Sahana was also somewhat dicey but the one I got wrong was B-Saranga - I went for Abheri
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I could hear SrivEnugOpAla and rA rA chinnanna swarA phrases for the kurunji and jhanjhUTi pieces in the first few phrases. I got fooled on the vakuLAbharanA piece. Answered it as mAyAmALavagouLa. I heard madhyAmAvathy in the folk tune 
I was the one who gave Murthy garu the multiple choice in the niSAdA 3 and riSabha 1 pieces. All I could get was they were the ni's and ri's of a kharaharapriya janyas and gave my answer as madhyamAvathy/maNirangu/SrI. I have heard Smt DKPattammal render both the ragas and the swarastAnAs are so close to each other with similar prayOgAs. Murthy garu I apologise for not heeding to your words. But I would request you to give us your opinion on the usage of ni and ri in madhyamAvathy/maNirangu/SrI/brindAvana sArangA so that we dont commit that mistake again.
But this one was a awesome and mind boggling quiz. I just loved it and was nice when I broke my head over the kannaDa piece which sounded a lot close to bEgaDa (atleast to me). After an hour of speculation and the running lAlguDi's SrimAtrubhutam (may be its him playing the same song) played at bhArat kalAchar some years ago, decided on the kannaDa.
All the others were like akkAra adisal. My score should be 17/20 and Mohanji, Ramakriyaji and fellow rasikas have surely done better. Thank you for this sweet treat. Kudos Murthy garu. Keep that coming in.

I was the one who gave Murthy garu the multiple choice in the niSAdA 3 and riSabha 1 pieces. All I could get was they were the ni's and ri's of a kharaharapriya janyas and gave my answer as madhyamAvathy/maNirangu/SrI. I have heard Smt DKPattammal render both the ragas and the swarastAnAs are so close to each other with similar prayOgAs. Murthy garu I apologise for not heeding to your words. But I would request you to give us your opinion on the usage of ni and ri in madhyamAvathy/maNirangu/SrI/brindAvana sArangA so that we dont commit that mistake again.
But this one was a awesome and mind boggling quiz. I just loved it and was nice when I broke my head over the kannaDa piece which sounded a lot close to bEgaDa (atleast to me). After an hour of speculation and the running lAlguDi's SrimAtrubhutam (may be its him playing the same song) played at bhArat kalAchar some years ago, decided on the kannaDa.
All the others were like akkAra adisal. My score should be 17/20 and Mohanji, Ramakriyaji and fellow rasikas have surely done better. Thank you for this sweet treat. Kudos Murthy garu. Keep that coming in.
Last edited by ksrimech on 03 Feb 2007, 15:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Phrases and Triplets:
For me the phrases and allied triplets and pairs were easy. May be if had not said allied pair and I may have not got the nAyaki. So in a way pairing and tripleting really helped all of us as it was a big clue. I think the connection of behAg with sAranga and HameerkalyAni may be because of the proximal melakartha connection, shankarabharanam and kalyAni. Perhaps DRS may have a better explanation??.
On Swaras:
kalyAni, shuruTTi and sahAna was easy.Lucky to get rishaba1 as madhyamavati. For me the one second nishAda3 was too tough . I rounded that as AbhEri , still did not get the brindavana sAranga . I connected it as AbhEri with a very famous tamil song singAravelanin in the movie kONjum salangai. DRS definitely will get a better explanation of how it is brindavana sAranga ,and possibly why it is not AbhEri.
On Folks:
Both FOlk1 and Folk 3 I got it as suddasAveri in first pass. Then in Folk1 got the mOhanam tinge too. Assumed both questions will not have the same answer, tried to map wrongly as madhyamAvati for folk3.
Folk2 was a long and easy one to map as kurinji.
The folk4 definitely is senjuruTTi , only after DRS gave the answer. But when I heard the easy shenjuruTTI slipped and I put the answer as shankharAbharanam. Even now to me there is a tinge of both shankarAbharanam and shenjuruTTI.Can you reclarify DRS?
Folk5 like few of you , I did put the answer as mAyamAlavagowlai(melakartha #15). Would be nice to hear from DRS , if he helps where he distinguished the N2 to make it vakulAbharanam (melakartha #14). I am never familiar with vakulAbharanam, so no way I would have got it .
DRS,
Brilliant and Excellent quiz. Whatever is bolded are my questions?
For me the phrases and allied triplets and pairs were easy. May be if had not said allied pair and I may have not got the nAyaki. So in a way pairing and tripleting really helped all of us as it was a big clue. I think the connection of behAg with sAranga and HameerkalyAni may be because of the proximal melakartha connection, shankarabharanam and kalyAni. Perhaps DRS may have a better explanation??.
On Swaras:
kalyAni, shuruTTi and sahAna was easy.Lucky to get rishaba1 as madhyamavati. For me the one second nishAda3 was too tough . I rounded that as AbhEri , still did not get the brindavana sAranga . I connected it as AbhEri with a very famous tamil song singAravelanin in the movie kONjum salangai. DRS definitely will get a better explanation of how it is brindavana sAranga ,and possibly why it is not AbhEri.
On Folks:
Both FOlk1 and Folk 3 I got it as suddasAveri in first pass. Then in Folk1 got the mOhanam tinge too. Assumed both questions will not have the same answer, tried to map wrongly as madhyamAvati for folk3.
Folk2 was a long and easy one to map as kurinji.
The folk4 definitely is senjuruTTi , only after DRS gave the answer. But when I heard the easy shenjuruTTI slipped and I put the answer as shankharAbharanam. Even now to me there is a tinge of both shankarAbharanam and shenjuruTTI.Can you reclarify DRS?
Folk5 like few of you , I did put the answer as mAyamAlavagowlai(melakartha #15). Would be nice to hear from DRS , if he helps where he distinguished the N2 to make it vakulAbharanam (melakartha #14). I am never familiar with vakulAbharanam, so no way I would have got it .
DRS,
Brilliant and Excellent quiz. Whatever is bolded are my questions?
Last edited by rajeshnat on 03 Feb 2007, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes - I had the same reasoning! I was debating between Brindavana Saranga (such as Rangapuravihara) and Abheri (singavelanin) and chose the latter.rajeshnat wrote:For me the one second nishAda3 was too tough . I rounded that as AbhEri , still did not get the brindavana sAranga . I connected it as AbhEri with a very famous tamil song singAravelanin in the movie kONjum salangai. DRS definitely will get a better explanation of how it is brindavana sAranga ,and possibly why it is not AbhEri?
I also thought the Folk 5 was mayamalavagowla based and opted for Nadanamakriya. Probably I didn't listen carefully enough on that one!
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What was the phrase that was played for Kannada? Since I go by phrases, I sent in the answer as Begada. Did anyone else think it sounded like Begada? Surprisingly, I got 4 out of 5 in the swara/gamaka section but got whipped in the folk songs section.
The Vakulabharanam song sounded exactly like this one - http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/PU7 ... As1NMvHdW/ though I couldn't identify the raga.
Vakulabharanam
______________ ( Whoosh)
My Head
What language was the Madhyamavathi folk song in? Folk song 4 sounded just like the beginning in Pacchai Kiligal Tholudu in the movie Indian. I read somewhere that that song was in the raga Kapi and put that down as the answer though it didn't sound like Kapi.
Awesome quiz!! Looking forward to more like this. Great learning experience.
-Sripathi
The Vakulabharanam song sounded exactly like this one - http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/PU7 ... As1NMvHdW/ though I couldn't identify the raga.
Vakulabharanam
______________ ( Whoosh)
My Head
What language was the Madhyamavathi folk song in? Folk song 4 sounded just like the beginning in Pacchai Kiligal Tholudu in the movie Indian. I read somewhere that that song was in the raga Kapi and put that down as the answer though it didn't sound like Kapi.
Awesome quiz!! Looking forward to more like this. Great learning experience.
-Sripathi
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I thought Folk-1 sounded like Mohanakalyani. DRS, you have mentioned Mohanam/shuddhasaveri. I thought we were supposed to identify just ONE closest ragam.
Folk-3 and Madhyamavathi? DRS, please educate us on this one.
Nishada-3: I too thought this was Abheri. Would like to hear the reasoning for Brind-saranga.
Folk-3 and Madhyamavathi? DRS, please educate us on this one.
Nishada-3: I too thought this was Abheri. Would like to hear the reasoning for Brind-saranga.
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You hit the nail on the head. A Huge number of participants answered abhEri and I surmised why that happened. I played the song from konjum saangai- did no find this phrase at all. Shows what a powerful influence film music can wield on ones psyche.rajeshnat wrote:I connected it as AbhEri with a very famous tamil song singAravelanin in the movie kONjum salangai.
Even now to me there is a tinge of both shankarAbharanam and shenjuruTTI.Can you reclarify DRS?
I will let those who got the right answer tto field this question. DRS does not have to do it allWould be nice to hear from DRS , if he helps where he distinguished the N2 to make it vakulAbharanam (melakartha #14)

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Yes- only one answer as those who heard mOhan would not hear SuddhasAvEri or vice versa. mOhana is certianly more suitable but I cannot fault dEvakriya/SuddhaAveri.jayaram wrote:I thought Folk-1 sounded like Mohanakalyani. DRS, you have mentioned Mohanam/shuddhasaveri. I thought we were supposed to identify just ONE closest ragam.
mOhanakalyANi-no way.
I woud first ike to know what is your(And many others) reasoning behind wrongly identifying this as abhEri.Nishada-3: I too thought this was Abheri. Would like to hear the reasoning for Brind-saranga.
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Actually I don"t have the song file with me. I wrote mayamalavagaula, nadanamakriya and something clicked out of memory that you did sing in the same tune. Can you send that file to me again ?drshrikaanth wrote:Suji Ram wrote:nACAramma helped me with folk song 5I knew you had seen the connection when I saw the smiley beside your answer. I am pleased you saw it. Very good performance.
So the B saranga was a nadaswaram... I got that right.
I accidentally switched place with 1 and 4 folk song beacause I had it in that order on my ipod (what a danger). I did answer mohana for folk 1. But no points I guess

Last edited by Suji Ram on 03 Feb 2007, 22:20, edited 1 time in total.
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May I try even though I got it wrong - just a touch in the first phrase towards the end - Mayathakamalemuthanna (apologies for the murder!) - S,RPM,GMGR,SN,,,.It appears quite a sharp Kaisiki Nishadam, making it very difficult to differentiate.I think this is the only time that Nishadam appears in the clip although there appears to be a mixed Dhaivatham/Nishadam at "Mola" in Andhaiyandhu Molanage (around 6 to 8 seconds). But I will wait for doc's final diagnosis...drshrikaanth wrote:You hit the nail on the head. A Huge number of participants answered abhEri and I surmised why that happened. I played the song from konjum saangai- did no find this phrase at all. Shows what a powerful influence film music can wield on ones psyche.rajeshnat wrote:I connected it as AbhEri with a very famous tamil song singAravelanin in the movie kONjum salangai.
Even now to me there is a tinge of both shankarAbharanam and shenjuruTTI.Can you reclarify DRS?I will let those who got the right answer tto field this question. DRS does not have to do it allWould be nice to hear from DRS , if he helps where he distinguished the N2 to make it vakulAbharanam (melakartha #14)
Mohan, it is almost an honour to have committed the same mistakes as you (Abheri and Nadanamakriya) although I've made a few more!
BTW, from what doc says, it appears that this was just a mid term...but to do well in the final exams, we need to know where we stand! Meanwhile eagerly awaiting round 2!
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vijay,
i could be wrong although i got the answer right and actually had to use a piano keyboard of computer to figure out the sthAnams. I got N2 in the bhUmi-tUkkada gALipisi - the female chorus. It was sort of like N2 N2/S (N2/S => slide). I think even first N2 was perhaps a slide down to N2. Anyway atleast on the keyboard, N2.
I was actually quite convinced my answer was wrong as i figured "vakuLAbharaNam? cant be!" but couldnt come up with anything else for the swaras i got, so boldly gave it as vakuLAbharaNam!
Arun
i could be wrong although i got the answer right and actually had to use a piano keyboard of computer to figure out the sthAnams. I got N2 in the bhUmi-tUkkada gALipisi - the female chorus. It was sort of like N2 N2/S (N2/S => slide). I think even first N2 was perhaps a slide down to N2. Anyway atleast on the keyboard, N2.
I was actually quite convinced my answer was wrong as i figured "vakuLAbharaNam? cant be!" but couldnt come up with anything else for the swaras i got, so boldly gave it as vakuLAbharaNam!
Arun
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Folk 1 is bAgOrambA an Assamese folk song. Listen to it here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/rUb ... As1NMvHdW/
The rAga of the song is mOhana or dEvakriya/SuddhasAvEri depending on which we fix as the SaDja.
If you listen carefully, you can detect "yE nIlE gagan kE talE". Here the song starts on the madra pancama and rests on SaDja (bAgOram bAgOram bAgOram bA).
The part in bold falls on the SaDja. the flow goes like "P#,G,R,- P#,G,R,- P#,G,R,- S;,- P,-G,G,R,- S;;,"
But if you fix the startiNg note as SaDja, the resting note is madhyama and the rAga becomes SuddhasAvEri and the flow is "S,D,P,- S,D,P,- S,D,P,- M;,- S*,- D,D,P,- M;;,". Such ambuguity is encountered in many folk songs and therein lies the beauty.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/rUb ... As1NMvHdW/
The rAga of the song is mOhana or dEvakriya/SuddhasAvEri depending on which we fix as the SaDja.
If you listen carefully, you can detect "yE nIlE gagan kE talE". Here the song starts on the madra pancama and rests on SaDja (bAgOram bAgOram bAgOram bA).
The part in bold falls on the SaDja. the flow goes like "P#,G,R,- P#,G,R,- P#,G,R,- S;,- P,-G,G,R,- S;;,"
But if you fix the startiNg note as SaDja, the resting note is madhyama and the rAga becomes SuddhasAvEri and the flow is "S,D,P,- S,D,P,- S,D,P,- M;,- S*,- D,D,P,- M;;,". Such ambuguity is encountered in many folk songs and therein lies the beauty.
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Folk 2 in kuranji is here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/yqf ... As1NMvHdW/
The lyrics are simple yet, profound and touching. You will see a mix of several rAgas in this song. This is another common feature in folk songs and adds a haunting quality to many songs.
The relevant clip I have posted spans just 5 swaras- N,S,R,G and a touch of madhyama. The gamaka on the niShAda is the clinching point for kuranji. This halt on the shaking niShAda(Rapid first but gradualy petering out) is so typical of kuranjiThis can never occur in SankarAbharaNa. Arunk has already pointed out about the rAga of sItAkalyANa vaibhOgamE. A shade of the gamaka on niShAda does occur in kEdAra but the flow of swaras rules that out in this case.
"S,S,S,- S,SN#RS-N#~;;;;;,-SRG,MG-S,R,S,- S;;;;;,"
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/yqf ... As1NMvHdW/
The lyrics are simple yet, profound and touching. You will see a mix of several rAgas in this song. This is another common feature in folk songs and adds a haunting quality to many songs.
The relevant clip I have posted spans just 5 swaras- N,S,R,G and a touch of madhyama. The gamaka on the niShAda is the clinching point for kuranji. This halt on the shaking niShAda(Rapid first but gradualy petering out) is so typical of kuranjiThis can never occur in SankarAbharaNa. Arunk has already pointed out about the rAga of sItAkalyANa vaibhOgamE. A shade of the gamaka on niShAda does occur in kEdAra but the flow of swaras rules that out in this case.
"S,S,S,- S,SN#RS-N#~;;;;;,-SRG,MG-S,R,S,- S;;;;;,"
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celuvayya celuvO tAnE tandAna cinmaya rUpE kOlenna kOle
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/Sqf ... As1NMvHdW/
This commences on the madhyamAvati note and halts on SaDja at the end of kOlenna kOle). The range is from mandra niShAda to pancama.
"MRRM-M,MP- PM-MR-RS-SN#-N#S,N#-N#S-SR-MR-RS,S;,"
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/Sqf ... As1NMvHdW/
This commences on the madhyamAvati note and halts on SaDja at the end of kOlenna kOle). The range is from mandra niShAda to pancama.
"MRRM-M,MP- PM-MR-RS-SN#-N#S,N#-N#S-SR-MR-RS,S;,"
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Folk 4 sounded like being in madhyama sruti and had a limited range of swara-s so Sankarabharana didn't come to mind. Also I equated with Annamacharya's 'rara chinnana' set beautifully in senjurutti by Kadayanallur Venkataraman.drshrikaanth wrote:Iam still waiting for someone to explain how they arrived at jhanjUTi and why it is not SankarAbharaNa. Mohan- come on. You ought to share your knowledge with others.
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I do not see any shankarAbharaNa chAye at all. The dIrgha kampita rishabha of shankarAbharNa is not seen in the clip. Also there are prayOgasa such as pA#d#Asariga ..sArigagarisa etc which point to only one direction - jhanjhUTimohan wrote:Folk 4 sounded like being in madhyama sruti and had a limited range of swara-s so Sankarabharana didn't come to mind. Also I equated with Annamacharya's 'rara chinnana' set beautifully in senjurutti by Kadayanallur Venkataraman.drshrikaanth wrote:Iam still waiting for someone to explain how they arrived at jhanjUTi and why it is not SankarAbharaNa. Mohan- come on. You ought to share your knowledge with others.

-Ramakriya
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I felt this particular nishAda, even though going down from shaDja, was landing between kaishiki and kAkali nishADa - which is a characteristic of brindAvana sAranga; Also I have heard it in many AlApanes.mohan wrote:The Ni in the clip is played as SN SN SN (kaisaki nishada). For phrases like GRSN,,, in Abheri this is the same way N is played on an instrument.drshrikaanth wrote:I woud first ike to know what is your(And many others) reasoning behind wrongly identifying this as abhEri.
Of the three nishAdas, I had tough time deciding the first one, but landed on kalyANi correctly ultimately.
-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 04 Feb 2007, 12:22, edited 1 time in total.
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I think a third answer would be OK too for this question - pahADi; for those who heard mOhana notes, it might as well be recognized as pahADidrshrikaanth wrote:Yes- only one answer as those who heard mOhan would not hear SuddhasAvEri or vice versa. mOhana is certianly more suitable but I cannot fault dEvakriya/SuddhaAveri.
mOhanakalyANi-no way.
-Ramakriya
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Hmm. You wrote SuddhasAvEri and now you are arguing the case for pahADi :rolleyes:ramakriya wrote:I think a third answer would be OK too for this question - pahADi; for those who heard mOhana notes, it might as well be recognized as pahADi
I had specified to map to the nearest rAga. Those who heard mOhana should have heard bhUp or bhUpAli- why go for more exotic rAgas? pahADi, though based on the same 5 notes as mOhana, often does taken foreign notes(any of the 12 notes can occur) . That is where its essence lies. In such a short clip as this, with not a single foreign note, pahADi is a bad choice.
Here is Lagudi's tillAna in pahADi.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/eUQ ... As1NMvHdW/
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May these phrases are why i thought it was y'kAmbhOjiramakriya wrote:Also there are prayOgasa such as pA#d#Asariga ..sArigagarisa etc which point to only one direction - jhanjhUTi

For some reason, i associate the use of the bhashanga G2 in sencuruTTi so strongly that if i dont sense it, it never occurs to be it could be sencuruTTi. In this sample, that is what i find.
Can someone point out pl. how/where i am wrong in this? What are the other unambigious phrases/gamakas with sencuruTTi?
Arun
Last edited by arunk on 04 Feb 2007, 19:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Tough for me too. I wrote kalyani and last minute changed to shankarabharanam.ramakriya wrote:Of the three nishAdas, I had tough time deciding the first one, but landed on kalyANi correctly ultimately.
-Ramakriya
I always used to avoid playing S bhranam varnam(found it tough on violin) when my teacher asked...
learnt my lesson here...
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In folk songs - it is not a digital 0 or 1drshrikaanth wrote:Hmm. You wrote SuddhasAvEri and now you are arguing the case for pahADi :rolleyes:
I had specified to map to the nearest rAga. Those who heard mOhana should have heard bhUp or bhUpAli- why go for more exotic rAgas? pahADi, though based on the same 5 notes as mOhana, often does taken foreign notes(any of the 12 notes can occur) . That is where its essence lies. In such a short clip as this, with not a single foreign note, pahADi is a bad choice.


-Ramakriya
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- Posts: 1050
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:25
Murthy garu,Iam still waiting for someone to explain how they arrived at jhanjUTi and why it is not SankarAbharaNa. Mohan- come on. You ought to share your knowledge with others.
Like Mohanji and Ramprasadji pointed out, I did not hear any SankarAbharaNam at all and I did indeed hear annamAchar's rA rA chinnannA. Actually, when I had downloaded the clips, I randomly clicked on one of the clips. I turned out to be the jhanjhUTi piece and you know for a moment, I was fooled that it was Smt MS singing rA rA chinnannA. But 3 or 4 seconds later I got to listen to some other stuff.
Where are the scores????

Please answer my previous question on maNirangu/Sri/madhymAvathy/brindAvana sAranga. Thank you.
Last edited by ksrimech on 05 Feb 2007, 00:32, edited 1 time in total.