Speeches in Concerts

[gn.sn42]

Ah, but identifying which goals are noble, or which elements are negative, is not straightforward, is it? Bharati was imprisoned, as were the ANC leaders, so some people at least did not think these goals were noble, and acted in the name of "Security, in blazing letters", as you might put it.

That aside, the fact is that music does mix with politics. Perhaps you're arguing that it should not?*


*Except for noble goals?

[VK RAMAN]

Dalhousie Square in Kolkatta is now named after Binay Badal Dinesh who were hanged to death by the then British Rulers claiming them to be trailtors and terrorists. Now all those three are patriots who sacrificed their life for freedom of the country. See how two different view points vary.

[arasi]

gn.sn,
You caught me there! I am getting into unknown territory now Still, I shall try to convey what I feel. Let's start from the very beginning. When this thread was (re)started, wasn't the music concert at the heart of it all? With all shades of differences in our views, we arrived at 'inane speeches in concerts'. At some point, politics arrived. As we often take a detour (I am guilty of it often), politics which in our minds is associated speeches found a place in this discussion.
How is one going to decide if a cause is noble or not? Do we have to wait until history proves it to be so? bArati was a rebel or a mad man to many in his days. There were a few who knew his worth even then. The freedom movement brought into its fold people of all castes and economic and educational levels. What brought them together? I will substitute 'noble goals' with another word. Call it a 'force'. In a society where there were such divides among castes, suddenly it all changed--temporarily, anyway (history has proved that to us!). It was a call that many responded to. They mingled and marched and spent time together in prisons not because they suddenly felt like doing away with the differences that existed. They couldn't help themselves, that's all. They were carried away in that momentous wave of national unity which was needed to oust the british.

Can political meetings with lots of speeches have concerts? Yes, if there is an interest for concerts in political meetings.
I think musicians may be interested in performing too. Surely, popular musicians who sing at weddings will find a political meet a much better place to perform!

*Just went back to my post and now realize that my last line says that music and 'politics' don't mix! I should have said 'speeches' instead! I went away from the computer to get dinner ready and blame the rest on 'recent memory' mix-ups of those of golden years!
A 'blazing' sign for me to say to myself--'enough said on this thread'
VK will be happy too!

[gn.sn42]

arasi, I was responding to your "music and politics" statement, which looks like an inadvertant one on your part! As an individual I can certainly identify the causes I think are noble (opening temple doors to all comers, for example). On the subject of this thread I have little to say - if an organizer makes a speech there is nothing I can do except boycott their events in future; this is not a particularly effective tactic. On the other hand I have rarely encountered speeches in Chennai in December (except SVK's, but his speeches I wanted to listen to). We could try providing - er - constructive feedback to the speakers. Throwing tomatoes may be too much, but maybe making faces? A sea of rasikas sticking their tongues out should put off the rashest speaker.

[Ganesan]

Vasanthakokilam in msg 76 says:
The one thing we can ask is that they clearly indicate that the concert is for a cause/fund raising. Those who do not like speeches can simply choose to stay away.

How many of those who have contributed to this thread can claim to have organised an event and that too one for fund raising? Only those who have anything to do with such activity will know the difficulties.
It is unfortunate that no one in the list here has said anything about the wonderful work being done by the institution I have referred to. That shows how unconcerned they are about the poor in our society. To do such good work of uplifting some families from the poorest segment, no sacrifice is too much. Here we are just talking of a few minutes used up by the organiser to explain about the institution and the project!
How much of our time we are wasting in loose talk, waiting for transport and for other things in queues? Yet we make a big thing of ten or fifteen minutes used during a 180 minutes concert!
Please, friends, think about it.

[rshankar]

Please, friends, think about it.

I think it was made amply clear that speeches at either end of a concert are OK - all of our collective ire is directed at organizers who seem to be deluded enough to think that a concert has to be interrupted while it is in full flow to satisfy the audience who has been waiting for their lengthy words of wisdom like parched soil for the rains! It is this insistence to rudely interrupt the flow of music that we're throwing proverbial (verbal) brickbats at. It is perfectly fine to talk about worthy causes and ask for donations before or after the concert - no one is decrying that.

[rajaglan]

What an oft repeated illogical stereotype!!! Guruvayurappan songs are commercial albums meant to sell in the market and make him some money, not to show his devotion to the wide world.

Singers dont release albums in markets to market their devotion. If a film on a God becomes a hit, does it mean its director and producer get direct access to heaven? Isnt it amusing to talk such rubbish?

I agree with all your view and didnot sound like defending either. But I feel one exception to the marketing and money was MSS and LOrd balaji temple receiving royalties on her albums.

[coolkarni]

..

[Nick H]

Ganesan... you seem to be a master of the argument that has nothing at all to do with the subject!

We are talking about something; you are talking about something else.

[cienu]

Ganesan... you seem to be a master of the argument that has nothing at all to do with the subject!

We are talking about something; you are talking about something else.

Agree.

[Ganesan]

rshankar wrote:
It is perfectly fine to talk about worthy causes and ask for donations before or after the concert - no one is decrying that.

That is exactly the point. If one were to talk about the cause before start of the concert, he would probably be addressing 25% of the attendance, as more will assemble much later. Same if he were to talk after the concert because people who come only listen to a concert will not be interested in listening to the organiser's talk on any cause for that matter. They would have moved out of the exit gate.

Unless we listen to the talk we would not know about the cause. We already discussed about circulating notes etc. That is why I said, you organize an event for a cause; then you will surely agree that you have to talk only sometime during the concert, not before or after.

This discussion has gone on to a stage that even if any of you were to be convinced about the strategy of talking during the concert, you will not like to admit because it has become a prestige issue.

All said and done, you can do nothing about the practice, except put up with it. No use wasting time and energy and also poisoning the mind. The least you can do IN FAVOUR OF THE CAUSE is to avoid further negative discussion in the matter.

I hope Mr Anandaraman himself will not like to talk more on this touching issue any more.

[Nick H]

if an event is organised for a cause, and a concert is part of that, nobody does, and nobody has, objected to the speeches. You only keep harping on this point, as if we were arguing it; we are not.

Whilst some gratis advice has been thrown in the direction of event organisers --- keeping it short and sweet is good for your cause --- not one of us expects to attend such an event without hearing speeches about the organisation. We may even be interested to hear them.

This does not extend to sabhas, whose purpose is to present music to music lovers, not to fulfil the desire of their secretaries to be in the public eye.

[Nick H]

Actually, Am I the only one who feels a little guilty about going to a charity event just because I want to hear the musicians that are playing there?

[rajumds]

if an event is organised for a cause, and a concert is part of that, nobody does, and nobody has, objected to the speeches. You only keep harping on this point, as if we were arguing it; we are not.

Whilst some gratis advice has been thrown in the direction of event organisers --- keeping it short and sweet is good for your cause --- not one of us expects to attend such an event without hearing speeches about the organisation. We may even be interested to hear them.

This does not extend to sabhas, whose purpose is to present music to music lovers, not to fulfil the desire of their secretaries to be in the public eye.

That sums up the whole thread.

Shall we move over to mangalam

[Nick H]

why not?

[harimau]

Have you folks ever listened to Sri Narasimhan of Asthika Samajam, Tiruvanmiyur?

He usually takes about 5 minutes towards the end of a concert to talk about the program.

His speech is full of anecdotes of concerts he has attended in the past or of anecdotes he has heard about past vidwans.

He is an imaginative and engaging speaker and many a times it is worth going to a concert just to listen to him. The artists on stage appreciate his comments too.

There is an art to public speaking and Sri Narasimhan seems to have mastered it effortlessly.

[coolkarni]

..

[munirao2001]

Harimau

In my post/reply earlier, I had mentioned QUOTE I now wish that all those speakers, who think that the concert of the day is not complete without their speech performance (well, they have coterie applauding even if the speaker has been repeating the same anecdotes often) read the thread and views of the rasikas and become 'speechless' or 'speak less'.UNQUOTE I have listened few times Mr.Narasimhan's speech performances, he is no exception to my statement and rather fits perfect! Musicians, rarely take exception to protest or register their protest openly.

munirao2001

[HarishankarK]

Hi members

Actually a few days ago even i had written in a concert review that the audience was put through around 20 minutes of speech which was totally out of context. The speech was for coaxing the audience to donate money, be more charitable and generous. The speech also included some pretentious applause of the main artiste by calling names and giving titles. This was totally not required.
After the tani got over this gentlemen took over and did some routine appreciattion of all the artistes and also uttered some unwanted things about gender bias etc in concerts. It was boring and very painful to sit. I could hear people murmuring 'why this monster is disturbing such a good concert'.
I wonder whether topics like charity and donation and stories about poor people and their needs is relevant in such a concert.

Am sure that i will have many people saying that this is a nobel cause and a concert is a good place to sermonise on such things. But what is my point is : 'Are the audience interested in this, do they want to hear, if we take poll more than 80% person would say please let the concert proceed. We donot want to hear such stories however heart-touching they may be or listen to anecdotes however comic they may be.

Also i fail to understand why the garlanding of artistes (felicitation in other cases) is done after Taniavartanam. Whether the concert performance is good or bad definitely the organisers are going to felicitate/garland the artistes - in that case why can't it be done at the begining of the concert. I think that will be the best time.

I personally feel that once the concert starts there should be absolutely as little disturbance as possible.

Many people come from very far off places to attend these concerts and their sole objective is to hear maximum number of songs. So sometimes they are forced to leave without listening to the thukkadas (which is also a good session in a concert as these songs reach the masses and laymen audience too), extremely disappointed because of prolonged and unwanted speeches.
I have attended some concerts in foreign countries and before the concert begind there is an introduction of the artistes and after that no interruption. I think that is a good method to follow.

[Nick H]

Maybe we should have concerts like these
http://www.mediafire.com/?wtoonaownnz



Dont like the speech?
Just nestle your way to where he stands , get a good grip on his legs , lift him and...
Splash !!!!!!!

Yes, Cool... that would be an ideal setting for me, as I love boats too, quite apart from the speach-maker disposal options

And, with regard to your later comment... of course, there will always be exceptions, and they will probably always be few.

One really wonders what possesses such an one as HarishankarK writes of! Maybe it is a possesion, and the exorcists should be called!



.

[HarishankarK]

Maybe we should have concerts like these
http://www.mediafire.com/?wtoonaownnz



Dont like the speech?
Just nestle your way to where he stands , get a good grip on his legs , lift him and...
Splash !!!!!!!

Once i attended a concert in T. Nagar (i think German Hall) where there were these 2 mamas who were at close to 08:15 pm (they had started aroung 07:45pm) {when people were desirous to hear the vrithums and tukkadas and shlokas etc,} continuosly talking about the artistes and stories of the past and other similar boring kathais - one old maama from the 3rd or 4th row got up and requested very humbly that he wanted to leave at least by 09:00pm and that he would be very gratfeul if the two speakers would allow the artistes to resume. Seriously i salute the guts of that old person.

I remember the exact words " sir mistake pannikaathengo, naan romba doorath lendhu vandirukkaen, neenega seekiram mudichaa innum rendu-oru pattu kettuttu povaen - please ava paadalaame' and he folded his hands and sat down.
Without a word the 2 men came down and the cocnert started.

[girish_a]

Man, what a stir this topic has caused! It hadn't even occurred to me that the concert speech could be a subject of reform, nay, even abolition! Whoda thunk it!

Looks like the part of people's brains that has the responsibility of hating taxes is at work here.

Phew!

[rshankar]

Looks like the part of people's brains that has the responsibility of hating taxes is at work here.

Girish, a very unfortunate comparison - because, every so often, when traffic gets backed up, I do appreciate my taxes at work. The same can't be said of these speeches!!

[Nick H]

HarishankarK, it takes great style to carry off what your old gentleman did, and I salute him too

[Ganesan]

As some one said a little while ago, I think it is time for MANGALAM. This 'concert' has already gone too far!

[coolkarni]

..

[srinivasasarma]

I havenot yet read all the messages; like to say
- if they speak in the beginning or at the end, rasikas know that, and they start coming and leaving the hall
suitably avoiding the speach; so the organizers catch the rasikas in between
- once shri Madurai Somu was giving a concert, in Nandanam (?) abt 40 yrs ago! After 2 hrs or so, some known face
was abt to get into platform to say vote of thanks. Immediately shri Somu said "IyervAL- ippodAn
kutchery soodu pidichiruKu - konjam time kodungOLEn" - Everyone enjoyed.
But nowadays, many vidwans may expect someone to talk in between- sothat they have some extra rest in between !
No offence meant.
rgds/sarma

[arasi]

Sarma,
Since you haven't read all the posts, this is what has been repeated by many of us who are wary of long speeches in a concert.
I doubt if the performers like the interference of a speech in the middle of a concert. Tani time is rest time for the vocalist and the violinist, alApana time for the percussionists. A speech somehow is not a part of a concert. So, a few words at the beginning (if it is about a good cause or a welcome and thank you in one go). Ideallyhe speech should come after the RTP--again, a few words seems appropriate. The tukkaDas can be picked up at that point.

[munirao2001]

Rasika(s) must understand that majority of the artists in CM, perform with Religion taking primacy over the purely entertainment values. If artist takes few minutes to express/communicate his own views or react to any development, which has disturbed him deeply amidst the CM concert, we should not take umbrage. Rasikas should make value judgment on the nature of such communication and its message, for the general good or not. Yes, if the speeches become a regular feature with pontification, rasika has the right to express his indignation, communicating with the artist, preferably in private.
About the Shri KJY's album's on Guruvayoorappan, even though it's commercial release with profit motive, the effect in pleasing the faithful and the artists own humble service of spreading the message/devotion, can not be denied or underestimated.
munirao2001

[HarishankarK]

rshankar wrote:
It is perfectly fine to talk about worthy causes and ask for donations before or after the concert - no one is decrying that.

That is exactly the point. If one were to talk about the cause before start of the concert, he would probably be addressing 25% of the attendance, as more will assemble much later. Same if he were to talk after the concert because people who come only listen to a concert will not be interested in listening to the organiser's talk on any cause for that matter. They would have moved out of the exit gate.

Unless we listen to the talk we would not know about the cause. We already discussed about circulating notes etc. That is why I said, you organize an event for a cause; then you will surely agree that you have to talk only sometime during the concert, not before or after.

This discussion has gone on to a stage that even if any of you were to be convinced about the strategy of talking during the concert, you will not like to admit because it has become a prestige issue.

All said and done, you can do nothing about the practice, except put up with it. No use wasting time and energy and also poisoning the mind. The least you can do IN FAVOUR OF THE CAUSE is to avoid further negative discussion in the matter.

I hope Mr Anandaraman himself will not like to talk more on this touching issue any more.

But people are going to the concert to listen to the music and not to listen to the speech/ cause. This is like "it's a free concert but we will give a speech about our institution and seek donation". The whole idea is very inappropriate. It's a mean encashing on the fact that the audience is sure to stay and listen to the tukkadas so this is the time to give the speech. Personally i feel that :
a. either speech can be at the begining or at the end
b. or else they can send a tray / plate (as being done in many concerts now) where the audience puts money and that goes to the fund (hopefully). If there is no speech there are better chances of a higher collection
If already the announcement is made during concert advertisement that this is for a fund raiser then what is the need for a speech in this context again during the concert. If a collection tray is sent people already have read and know what to do !!!

Hope all will agree that there is a right place and right time for doing everything. Invariably in most concerts people get desperate when the speech starts as to when it will end (more particulalry if the artistes are good and the concert has been a success so far).

[Nick H]

Rasika(s) must understand that majority of the artists in CM, perform with Religion taking primacy over the purely entertainment values. If artist takes few minutes to express/communicate his own views or react to any development, which has disturbed him deeply amidst the CM concert, we should not take umbrage.

This is like the crows in the trees at night. Every time we get settled, someone starts again, kaaa, kaaa, then everyone must begin the racket all over again!

Let those who want to pontificate about religion (other than a few words, perhaps, explaining a song), perform in temple concerts.

There is a spiritual aspect to all great music, whether overtly religious or not; how else could it move us so deeply?



Arasi, before you credit me with the analogy, please read Charles Dickens' Bleak House --- he uses it beautifully!

[arasi]

Nick,
Ages since I have read Bleak House. Thanks for the reference.
You and I and others have cawed about speeches persistently and to the point that we are tired of it.
The interesting thing is, however much those pro-speech folks seem to think that speeches have a place in a concert, we find more and more members reviving the thread! This spells out that most listeners are against speeches in a concert--not to be confused with a CD release or a specific celebration where a short concert is presented.

[girish_a]

Slightly off-topic but still on the subject of distractions. A joke from Readers Digest:


Watching a movie recently, I couldn't hear the dialogue over the chatter of the two women in front of me. Unable to bear it any longer, I tapped one of them on the shoulder. "Excuse me," I said. "I can't hear."
"I should hope not," she answered. "This is a private conversation."

[arasi]

A good one!

[VK RAMAN]

girish - that is a good one!

[munirao2001]

Nick
The performers of CM are advised to consider the platform, where ever they are performing, as premises of Temple. The performer(s) have to invoke and feel the divine presence, to successfully take the listeners to raptures-with bhavam, high on religious aims and values, as present in the Compositions they render. The concerts are certainly for overt expressions of religious feelings and values, for quick and easy understanding and appreciation. of the rasikas, with varied faculties.

This is not for performers, who have chosen to offer purely entertainment values. May be, 'this is like the crows in the trees at night. Every time we get settled, someone starts again, kaaa, kaaa, and then everyone must begin the racket all over again!’

As I have posted earlier, definitely 'pontification' is just not correct and acceptable in CM concerts. This has place only in religious discourses and Harikatha kalakshepams. Rasika should convey his unhappiness to the artists, in private, at the first time listening experience. If the artists persist, rasika can protest for its desistance. If persisted, with or without, support of other rasikas, rasika can simply walk out. To return to the artist only, when this aberration is, put to an end.

munirao2001

[Nick H]

Of course I do not disagree with you; the stage of a carnatic performance is a special place. I, too, remove my shoes before going there. Don't mistake my response for lack of proper respect or intention to hurt anybody's feelings.

[Anantraman]

When I started this discussion on speeches during concerts, I did not reckon that most, if not all, of the readers would be RASIKAS and perhaps hard core CRITICS. Obviously they will be interested only in MUSIC. It is not surprising that a good number of them have written against speeches during concerts. (It is a consolation that they are not averse to short speeches.) There is therefore no point in expecting a response from them which is favourable to an organizer.

Talking about organizations, one should apply different standards. There are Sabhas conducting only concerts periodically. There are organizers of events and there are also organizers who hold fund-raising programmes for a noble project of great social importance.

We all are committed to the society for the well-being of the members, particularly of the poorest segment. The objective here is to serve this sector, using entertainment as a medium. Whatever ideas are employed in pursuing the objective should be welcome. Let us be large hearted. That is the least we can do.

Just in passing, how many of the members who have contributed to this thread of discussions have really spent time to know about the organizations that have arranged concerts - their mission, their standing and their programmes? Let us not simply decry a practice just because we cannot stand it. Let us try to accommodate the views of others also. Let us also try and help for success of the causes for which some organizations dedicate their activities.

[arasi]

Anantharaman,
I think that rasikAs do contribute to good causes.
If you go through the posts, you will find that folks are not against good causes (far from it) or against speeches. 'Where' a long speech belongs is the question. As you have observed, to most of the listeners, short ones are acceptable..
If you read the thoughts behind all the the posts, you will find that long speeches not only spoil a concert but also make people impatient. It may even affect the charity in that listeners may get less generous in such a frame of mind.
Personally, I am happier to buy a donor ticket for a generous sum (or contribute) and then spend my time listening to the concert rather than listening to very long speeches.

[Nick H]

Talking about organizations, one should apply different standards. There are Sabhas conducting only concerts periodically....

OK, I'm happy to admit of another exception to my "rule"

Where an organisation is presenting such periodic events, and perhaps some may only do so for a week in every year, let there be an inaugural evening. Members can gather, say at 5.30 or 6.00, lamps can be lit, chairmen and secretaries can speak and have their work recognised. The concert can then proceed, uninterrupted at 6.30 or 7.00.

It is always possible to find ways of doing things that satisfy everybody

[Anantraman]

Thank you Nick for the suggestion. But do you honestly believe the attendance would be as much for such a meeting as it would be for a concert?
I do agree that that speeches have to be short. That alone is the answer. But, how short is short?

[Nick H]

No, not in terms of the general public --- but there will be a core membership who do want to listen, and isn't it better for sabha officers to talk to a dozen interested people than to a hundred bored ones?

[gobilalitha]

There is nothing wrong if the organisers who take lots of pains to arrange the perfofmances, for instance contacting the artists, adjusting to their dates and their normal demands say a few words about their organisation, their selfless struggle to arrange the performances,soliciting financial help from thr rasikas. BUT THEY MUST PUT AN END TO LONG FLATTERING SPEECHES ABOUT THE PARTICIPATING ARTISTS. Afterall the rasikas who attend the performances are well aware of the artists capabilities ,for instance should the rasikas require a long lecture about a legend like TNS .GOBILALITHA

[Anantraman]

Elementary courtesy demands thanking the artiste and appreciating the concert, and that cannot be avoided. Thereafter the organiser may talk about the organisation and its objectives. One never knows, even an uninterested listener in the audience may be prompted from within to support the cause after hearing the speech, while another may find the speech boring. I am afraid we have to allow that and if necessary put up with it too.
I believe in entertaining a door-to-door salesman instead of shouting him out because unless I see his wares I would not know whether I would need it or not. Besides, I might find a need for it at a later date and at that time I would know where and what to look for. Similarly if we patiently lend our ears during the talk (speech during concert) we may find something interesting and worth listening to.
So, please have patience.
Anantraman

[Nick H]

Elementary courtesy demands thanking the artiste and appreciating the concert, and that cannot be avoided.

All togther now...

Yes It Can!

The audience reaction is the audience appreciation.

--- just another kaaa kaaa from me!

[arasi]

The listeners are in a better position than those who sit on the stage and wait and pray that they can catch up with the momentum of the concert after the speeches come to an end. They too might not apprerciate anything but a few words--reasons? (repeated how many times in the thread?) but they can't leave the hall or chat among themselves as the audience can do. Of course, they can occupy their minds to figure out ways of how to continue in the same mood as when they were interrupted, or how they have to hurry up and catch thta train if the speeches go on any longer.

Srinivasaraghavan,
Your soap opera is in segments, filled with unexpected incidents. This thread seems to go on endlessly, like some speeches. I am guilty too in not giving up since I do not know how to explain that there is an ocean of difference between a few words and a speech.

Caw, caw, I am all for a few words, strictly a few words which are to the point.
I just wondered. If all of us read out all that we have written here to an audience, I bet even those who like (do not mind) speeches will run for their lives. Yes, that's how long most speeches are.
I don't know about the performers. They would rather put up with long speeches than perform to an empty hall?
I have cawed enough...

[Nick H]

Arasi, I think it is time for us to give the shrill, wicked laugh of the Indian Kingfisher, and fly away from all this

[gobilalitha]

' To speak or not to speak', that is the question . gobilalitha

[gsr1968]

I feel that the speech of about 5 minutes gives a well needed break to the artistes after a rigorous RTP before they embark on the thukkadas

[Nick H]

Kaa, kaa...