Classical or Fusion?

jackocheerful · Post by **jackocheerful** » 29 Jan 2008, 22:02

Is it important to preserve our culture's traditional music? When does fusion music not turn into "confusion"? what are the justifications for fusion? Can we see this as a continuing of our cultures musical tradition?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 29 Jan 2008, 23:02

We've been here a few times, so you may not get much response to this.

Check through the threads for similar discussions.

nigamaa · Post by **nigamaa** » 30 Jan 2008, 14:30

jackocheerful wrote:Is it important to preserve our culture's traditional music? When does fusion music not turn into "confusion"? what are the justifications for fusion? Can we see this as a continuing of our cultures musical tradition?

JOC,
try

Taye Yashoda Morning Raga Karnataka classical music Fusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0NIWMFE0EQ

it used to be one of my favourites from the film moning raag
koel music had the DVD in stock, mail by creditcard order

cheers

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 30 Jan 2008, 18:18

Nigamaa,
After viewing the video what came to my mind was a short snippet in a news channel yesterday about Sylvester Stallone - who was recommending testetrone and telling that in another 10 years it would be available across the counter. Many who have gone through the hippy stage would understand what it means.

Shabana Azmi - the character starts on a wonderful note - and then plunges to abysmal depth - along with the singer - was it sudha? - she is a perfect example of 'over use of briga' - which Uday mentions in another thread - her musical talent and voice are being wasted.

I had the privilege of singing lullaby to my grandson for close to a year - jO achyutAnanada' and 'uyyAlalUgavayya'. Then I realised the mindset of Yasoda with her son in the lap. Every Indian woman has been brought up in that tradition - may be not any more.

Music is meant to soothen the nerves - not to stimulate. Those who use it as a stimulant would end with the same kind of hang over after a heavy bout of drinking.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Jan 2008, 18:40

I think there is music for all seasons --- or all reasons.

I used to have an early musical alarm clock; a record (yes, vinyl) player and a time clock set to wake with Wagner in the morning. Are there not supposed to nine emotions expressed in music and art?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 30 Jan 2008, 19:08

nick,
I fully agree with you.
But what is being presented is an all-in-one solution - please note the topic - 'Classical or Fusion?'

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Jan 2008, 21:08

Then it is choice we do not need to make; a question we do not need to answer, any more than we need to chose Eastern or Western, Hindustani or Carnatic.

There were some very good thoughts on this on a fairly recent thread on a similar topic.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Jan 2008, 21:14

Ah, to be free to make one's own choices!

nigamaa · Post by **nigamaa** » 30 Jan 2008, 21:36

vg,
pls note this suggestion of a song out of the film "Morning Raag" was in order to answer to joc`s question and was meant just for that. It deals with fusion objectively, and i still wait for joc to answer?

It is not my favourite film, see for that
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=69528#p69528

If I were the artist and would see utube
scored: Views: 47,662
Comments:39 >>>you can go through them
Favorited: 236 times
I would be proud of myself for the fusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0NIWMFE0EQ

nh,
I dont find the context to Wagner`s experiments here,
he made socalled "music drama", his only buddhist opera he did not finish, he had no particular knowledge of indian music, since at his time there were no translations ready - in sense of indian drama he had a similar approach to mythology, which is still matter of research.
He however played "indian like " intervals ( swars) in absolute pitch, in this i think he was the first western composer to do this.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 30 Jan 2008, 23:26

vgvindan said, Music is meant to soothen the nerves - not to stimulate. This did not seem related to any genre or national music, so I used a Western example of music I found stimulating and chose to listen to for that reason. I did not mean it to relate to Indian music at all. Ultimately and emotionally, music is music, not about countries; technically, of course, it is a very different matter.

A spirited rendering of a thillana might have been a better example. Sorry to mislead.

nigamaa · Post by **nigamaa** » 31 Jan 2008, 00:06

thillana,

Maybe its difficult to find a consensus what music is?
I remember having read in sangita ratnakara once, that music was divided into marga and deshi. Now some say this goes back to Bharata. Marga is cosmic music the rishis used to listen in their caves, difficult to understand -deshi is the music in this world. Even as such, deshi music was really song, instrument and dance combined. For this to make sense, I found that first a sentiment (emotion) was chosen and then music based on it. With Bharata, first shruti ( a sound value within the octave) had a sentiment, named like Indras thunderbolt, Thors hammer, Vajrika. Eventually the raga evolved and the dancer could set his movements and emotions in harmony. For this tillana would the perfect example and I am still trying to find a book about the history of thillana.

Yes, thillana is a good example to discuss music and dance, I agree.

nigamaa · Post by **nigamaa** » 31 Jan 2008, 14:23

Vgvindan,

could you pls consider to give your valueable input on this thillana-like piece? It is an experimental dance to a tempered-scale instrumental music without words, it may or may not be suitable to CM trained hearing, but the comment would be to the topic

thx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx18tG-zf2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_7aTUxBWSM

jackocheerful · Post by **jackocheerful** » 08 Feb 2008, 21:23

Nick, Can you direct me to the threads you were referring to. I've had a look but not sure where to look. Thanks so much for your help.
much love, j

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 Feb 2008, 21:35

The best I can do, I'm afraid is a site search for the word 'fusion'.

Give it a try: you can pick some promising threads out of the results.

I have to confess, though, that the various fora that members here have frequented over the years tend to blur into one, so some of the conversations I'm thinking of might have taken place in "other worlds".

ksl · Post by **ksl** » 01 Jul 2008, 11:27

nigamaa...

i noticed ur videos....If i may be allowed to comment....I dont think the artist did any justice to any of those compositions....thers nothing wrong in fusion or the idea but at the end of the day music and dance need to convey bhava....doing adavus u learnt for mozarts themes are not what they are about....Doing adavus does not amke it a tillana like piece...A tillana needs to have the coherence of the music (rhythm) and footwork..together they need to paint a picture of sheer energy embodied with grace and subtle tala variations...the artist here was trying to do tandava and laasya on a mozarts piece which to me did not translate into contrasts.....to my humble opinion does not result in a great composition....no offense to the artist but if you could figure out the contrasts in a mozart piece to decide to portray tandava and laasya through it its your responsibility to do justice to both the mozarts piece and tandava and laasya concept....Here is the tricky part...as to who decides whats justice enough

To compare taandava and laasya done on a more traditional music but still with a lot of creativity check out

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fa6YRN7JfMo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aEUQeASaEcc

Although you might differ from the artist in the syle of dance or the way they are not dancing to a traditional song....u cant admire the bhava brought through...thats the objective of any art form

I think Fusion is not a bad idea but because of people trying to desparately do different things and therefore it not having the coherence of music rhythm and emotion our great gurus made sure worthy audience would connect to with so much dedication and hardwork, it has acquired this unfortunate color of low standards......

Art in any form Fusion, classical, carnatic, hindustani, western...whether it is to make u go through the navarasas or soothe you to the core..is an ability....there are only two types of art....the one capable of moving you and the incapable one.....well...what your standards are to get moved is what matters....

nigamaa · Post by **nigamaa** » 01 Jul 2008, 18:16

Ksl,

thank you for your comment, I totally agree with you on every point you say. Myself I hope one day to learn more about rasa and bhava, when these ageold scriptures are available in better translations
See also comment on history
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4560

I appreciate these masterful utubes,
lately I have discovered some â€œfusionsâ€