Poonkuyil in kApi

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 02 Oct 2007, 15:34

Dear lakshmanji, Pl provide the lyrics of the above song by Kalki

Request Rasikas to provide meaning to this tamil song.

Many thanks in advance.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 02 Oct 2007, 20:06

Please check your email.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 02 Oct 2007, 20:23

I am so immensely happy lakshmanji. What a noble service you are providing.

pUnkuyil kUvum. rAgA: kApi. Eka tALA.

Composer: Kalki Krishnamurti.

P: pUnkuyil kUvum pUnjOlaiyil orunAL mAmayil mIdu mAyamAi vandAn
A: ponmukham adanil punnagai ponga innamudenna inmozhi pagarndoru minnalaippOlE maraindAn
C1: pani malar adanil pudu maNam kaNDEn vAnil kaDalil vaNNangaL kaNDEn
tEnisai vINaiyil tInjuvai kaNDEn tanimaiyil inimai kaNDEn
C2: vIra vEl murugan mINDum varuvAn vaLLi maNALan ennai maravAn
pEraruLALan enakk-aruLvAn enum perumidattAl mei marandEn

Can I now request rasikas to please provide meaning.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Oct 2007, 22:12

manjunath,
As children, we used to sing it in SenjuruTTi, nAda nAmakriyA and kAnaDA! I had the privilege of singing it to Kalki mama himself! He was a very kind man, and was always encouraging. I am sure he ignored my tALA lapse, and at a few gatherings, would even beckon me to sing the invocation. Those were simpler times, and no big hoopla about 'performing'. He would see me sitting there in the audience and would say something like: child, come and sing the prayer song! Sing 'endaiyum tAyum' of bharati!

As for the meaning, the song is one of Ravi's favorites, I think. I would wait and see if he is free to take up the translation. If not, I will.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 02 Oct 2007, 22:27

arasi: The rAgA given here is from his book of compositions.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Oct 2007, 02:00

Lakshman,
I was just saying that there was also another version of it as a rAga mAlika, that's all.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 03 Oct 2007, 06:25

arasi wrote:manjunath,
As children, we used to sing it in SenjuruTTi, nAda nAmakriyA and kAnaDA! I had the privilege of singing it to Kalki mama himself! He was a very kind man, and was always encouraging. I am sure he ignored my tALA lapse, and at a few gatherings, would even beckon me to sing the invocation. Those were simpler times, and no big hoopla about 'performing'. He would see me sitting there in the audience and would say something like: child, come and sing the prayer song! Sing 'endaiyum tAyum' of bharati!

As for the meaning, the song is one of Ravi's favorites, I think. I would wait and see if he is free to take up the translation. If not, I will.

I am sure the famous long road from Adyar further down to Thiruvanmiyur named as " Kalki Krishna Murthy Salai " must be the composer of this lovely song sung by DKJ. The kApi version is just superb. It even beats the famous songs of Thayagaraja in kApi.

Arasi- How blessed you are.
Earlier in an another thread when I had mentioned about " sri venkatesham" in Thodi of Puchi, You had shared similar experiences. You are also a composer.! It's really nice that we have come in contact through rasikas.org.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Oct 2007, 09:38

I feel the same way. I am learning all the time here at the forum and it is rewarding to learn from the young and the old alike. We seniors also enjoy sharing our memories with the younger generation about the golden years in CM and the arts.
From your name and from the way you speak of Kalki as a composer, I am guessing that you are from karnataka. Of course, Kalki was not as much a composer as he was a major writer of novels, a freedom fighter (Rajaji was his mentor), and a man who was instrumental in bringing to focus subrahmanya bhArati's poetry. He was the editor of ananda vikatan first, and then of Kalki. That was how he came to be known as kalki (his pseudonym too). He wrote editorials, humorous essays and also wrote music reviews under the name karnATakam for the magazine.
He brought the great literary minds of the day together who gave glorious speeches on Bharathi, kamban and others. Yes, I was blessed! I wouldn't miss any of those gatherings. I was a curious child too. Though I could not understand much of what they said, their knowledge and eloquence awed me...

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:25

Since Ravi has not responded, I request your translation please.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Oct 2007, 06:37

Arasi,
Let me start, and you can come in like the master to fill in the gaps and correct the imperfections! And you are correct: along with mAlai pozhudinilE, this is a favorite piece of mine - I can listen to DKP sing this any number of times....

This is a very beautiful padam where the nAyikA's (utkanTita nAyikA) feelings of intense love are ignited by a brief encounter with Lord kArtikEya in a garden.

P: pUnkuyil kUvum pUnjOlaiyil orunAL mAmayil mIdu mAyamAi vandAn

One day (oru nAL) He came (vandAn) to me in the grove (pUncOlai/pUnjOlai is a flower garden) where the cuckoos (pUnkuyil if I remember correctly, is the mating cucokoo) are singing to one another (kUvum) riding his mighty peacock (mAmayil mIdu).
A: ponmukham adanil punnagai ponga innamudenna inmozhi pagarndoru minnalaippOlE maraindAn

With a smile (punnagai) lighting up (ponga) his face (pon mukham - golden hued face), he whispered/shared (pagarndu) sweet nothings (innamudena inmozhi) in my ear, and alas! He disappeared (maraindAn) in flash (minnalaipOlE - like a flash of lightning).

C1: pani malar adanil pudu maNam kaNDEn vAnil kaDalil vaNNangaL kaNDEn
tEnisai vINaiyil tInjuvai kaNDEn tanimaiyil inimai kaNDEn

After that all too brief mulAkAt, intense feelings of love are awakened in the heroine - she is like a bud that has found the stimulus to blossom and starts to experience feelings that were hitherto unknown to her: she says "I have discovered (kanDEn) a new (pudu) fragrance (maNam) in flowers (malar adanil), and I revel in the myriad colors (vaNNangaL) I've suddenly noticed (kanDEn) in the sky (vAnil) and the sea (kaDalil). I have also discovered the sweetness (tIncuvai) in the honey like tones (tEniSai) that emanate from the vINa, but, most of all, I have discovered the ecstacy of solitude (tanimayil inimai)" - solitude when she can repeatedly relive her experience!

C2: vIra vEl murugan mINDum varuvAn vaLLi maNALan ennai maravAn
pEraruLALan enakk-aruLvAn enum perumidattAl mei marandEn

She is certain that the lord of her dreams will not desert her. She continues, "I am certain that the brave (vIra) murugan, who weilds the spear (vEl) will come to me (varuvAn) once again (mInDum). That husband (maNALan) of vaLLI will not forget (maravAn) me (ennai). With the certainty (enum perumidattAl) that the benefactor of one and all (pEr aruLALan) will certainly shower his grace (aruLvAn) on me (enakku), and never forsake me, I forget myself (mei marandEn) in thoughts of my union with him!"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Oct 2007, 09:44

Thank you for your translation, Ravi.
No mastery on my part, but some additions:

pU also means beautiful--so pUnguyil is beautiful (voiced) kuyil (cuckoo).

vandAn: appeared before me as if by magic.
'mugam, nagai, ponga' all flow--mukham is not how you pronounce it in tamizh.
innamudenna--amudu+enna (enbadu pOl).

The second verse is where she feels one with Nature. Yes, the beauty around her reminds her of murugan. I see it more as 'mOnattirukkudaDI inda vaiyyagam mUzhgit tuyilinilE' of bhArati (how this world is silent when it is in deep sleep). This is my favorite verse in pUnguyil.

First, sweet recollection, then feeling one with Nature and drawing inspiration from it. Then comes the verse of hope:

vIra vEl murugan mINDum varuvAn (the valiant murugan will come again).

perumidattAl (with that feeling of joy)--that the most bountiful giver would grant me grace...

Ravi,
This song can be danced to, even by children, without bringing in the nAyikA bhAvam, don't you think? We actually danced to it as children and murugan appearing magically on the glorious peacock was a dramatic image!

V_ANNASAMY · Post by **V_ANNASAMY** » 04 Oct 2007, 10:23

Also b'coz the cuckoo shuttles/resides around groves (pUnchOlai), it is pUnkuyil. Similar meaning comes for mAnkuyil.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Oct 2007, 19:49

Indeed.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 09 Oct 2007, 07:06

arasi wrote:I feel the same way. I am learning all the time here at the forum and it is rewarding to learn from the young and the old alike. We seniors also enjoy sharing our memories with the younger generation about the golden years in CM and the arts.
From your name and from the way you speak of Kalki as a composer, I am guessing that you are from karnataka. Of course, Kalki was not as much a composer as he was a major writer of novels, a freedom fighter (Rajaji was his mentor), and a man who was instrumental in bringing to focus subrahmanya bhArati's poetry. He was the editor of ananda vikatan first, and then of Kalki. That was how he came to be known as kalki (his pseudonym too). He wrote editorials, humorous essays and also wrote music reviews under the name karnATakam for the magazine.
He brought the great literary minds of the day together who gave glorious speeches on Bharathi, kamban and others. Yes, I was blessed! I wouldn't miss any of those gatherings. I was a curious child too. Though I could not understand much of what they said, their knowledge and eloquence awed me...

Arasi- U R right. I am born & brought in Bangalore. I come from a music family and I am blessed that i have cultivated the taste to enjoy CM in all its sensitivities and nuances.......Just to be frank with U........my grandfather Vishwanatha Sastri was a disciple of Maha Vaidyanatah Sivan........so music is in the family....... my uncle VV Ranganathan served as a Mridangist in AIR, Bangalore..........In all sincerity i also underwent some training from RK Srikantan........and I have given one hr concerts in famous forums of Bangalore. My profession won't allow me to commit the time and practise CM requires to become a top class vocalist. God has provided me with a very powerful voice which is trained to reach all the 3 Octaves. Basically, singing for me is soul elevation and merging with divinity. The amount of peace of mind one derives by practising CM can't be explained in words one has to experience him/herself!

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 10 Oct 2007, 09:20

rshankar wrote:Arasi,
Let me start, and you can come in like the master to fill in the gaps and correct the imperfections! And you are correct: along with mAlai pozhudinilE, this is a favorite piece of mine - I can listen to DKP sing this any number of times....

This is a very beautiful padam where the nAyikA's (utkanTita nAyikA) feelings of intense love are ignited by a brief encounter with Lord kArtikEya in a garden.

P: pUnkuyil kUvum pUnjOlaiyil orunAL mAmayil mIdu mAyamAi vandAn

One day (oru nAL) He came (vandAn) to me in the grove (pUncOlai/pUnjOlai is a flower garden) where the cuckoos (pUnkuyil if I remember correctly, is the mating cucokoo) are singing to one another (kUvum) riding his mighty peacock (mAmayil mIdu).
A: ponmukham adanil punnagai ponga innamudenna inmozhi pagarndoru minnalaippOlE maraindAn

With a smile (punnagai) lighting up (ponga) his face (pon mukham - golden hued face), he whispered/shared (pagarndu) sweet nothings (innamudena inmozhi) in my ear, and alas! He disappeared (maraindAn) in flash (minnalaipOlE - like a flash of lightning).

C1: pani malar adanil pudu maNam kaNDEn vAnil kaDalil vaNNangaL kaNDEn
tEnisai vINaiyil tInjuvai kaNDEn tanimaiyil inimai kaNDEn

After that all too brief mulAkAt, intense feelings of love are awakened in the heroine - she is like a bud that has found the stimulus to blossom and starts to experience feelings that were hitherto unknown to her: she says "I have discovered (kanDEn) a new (pudu) fragrance (maNam) in flowers (malar adanil), and I revel in the myriad colors (vaNNangaL) I've suddenly noticed (kanDEn) in the sky (vAnil) and the sea (kaDalil). I have also discovered the sweetness (tIncuvai) in the honey like tones (tEniSai) that emanate from the vINa, but, most of all, I have discovered the ecstacy of solitude (tanimayil inimai)" - solitude when she can repeatedly relive her experience!

C2: vIra vEl murugan mINDum varuvAn vaLLi maNALan ennai maravAn
pEraruLALan enakk-aruLvAn enum perumidattAl mei marandEn

She is certain that the lord of her dreams will not desert her. She continues, "I am certain that the brave (vIra) murugan, who weilds the spear (vEl) will come to me (varuvAn) once again (mInDum). That husband (maNALan) of vaLLI will not forget (maravAn) me (ennai). With the certainty (enum perumidattAl) that the benefactor of one and all (pEr aruLALan) will certainly shower his grace (aruLvAn) on me (enakku), and never forsake me, I forget myself (mei marandEn) in thoughts of my union with him!"

Ravi - Thanks for this excellent translation. Non tamil speaking rasikas have the oppurtunity to enjoy tamil poetry with your translation.

Arasi- U have suggested that this piece can be used for dance by children with the vEl murugan transcending on a glorious peacock. I'm sure some rasikas who are going thr' this post may organise such a dance programme and may invite all of us ?

gita · Post by **gita** » 10 Oct 2007, 20:51

Where can I get the audio for this beautiful song? Both versions if possible !

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 10 Oct 2007, 21:20

Collector Choice - Live Concert-DK Jayaraman;
T Rukmini;Umalyalapuram Shivaraman; Vol II ,DREAM AUDIO;
Digitally Mastered P&C 2001 Owner Manufacturer- Media Dreams Ltd.
7-A,Kences Towers, 1,Ramakrishna Street, Chennai 600 017
ph:91+44+8143715
www.mediadreams.com

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Oct 2007, 07:12

vs_manjunath wrote:Ravi - Thanks for this excellent translation. Non tamil speaking rasikas have the oppurtunity to enjoy tamil poetry with your translation.

Manjunath,
You are very welcome!
This is a favorite song of mine, and my all time favorite rendition is by Smt. DKP. I can listen to it repeatedly...and along with her, I can forget myself (mei marandiDuvEn)..

gita · Post by **gita** » 11 Oct 2007, 08:33

Thanks, Manjunath. Ihave been lucky enough to find this album on raaga.com

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 11 Oct 2007, 09:16

Please see below for DKJ & DKP version!

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~vignesh/ ... Koovum.mp3
http://tinyurl.com/ysl98e

-hari

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 11 Oct 2007, 13:23

poonkuyil koovum pooncholaiyil as rendered by DKP WAS INSPIRED BY THE LEGENDARY HINDUSTANI AND BENGALI SINGER THE IMMORTAL K.L.SAIGAL . ''BAALAM AYE BASO MORE MAN ME', ANOTHER INSTANCE OF GREAT CARNATIC MUSICIAN GETTING INSPIRATION FROM A HINDI SONG and immortalizing it is KANDAN KARUNAI PURIYUM VADIVEL BY MADURAI MANI IYER FROM RAM RAJYA 'BINA MADHURA MADHURA BY SARASWATI DEVI. THIS IS TOSAY THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG IN SUCH ADAPTATIONS, AND MAKE THEM IMMENSELY POPULAR AMONGST CARNATIC MUSIC RASIKAS.

Mod note: no need to capitalize the majority of the post. Can you please fix it when you get a chance? Much appreciated. Thanks. Once done, I will remove this note.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 11 Oct 2007, 16:48

You forgot to add kATrinilE varum gItam which is patterned after the Jutika Roy geet TUT gayi man bInA.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 11 Oct 2007, 18:05

lakshman, I have not listened the same. can it be downloaded? thanks

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 11 Oct 2007, 18:12

I had heard it in the 40s but it does not seem to be available easily now. I am trying to locate the audio clip.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 12 Oct 2007, 07:34

since i am old and my eyesight getting dimmer, it takes me lot of time to read what I have been typing. hence capital letters were used .noted instructions. thanks gobilalitha will fix it

Mod note: gobilalitha, understood fully. Here is a suggestion that should help. In your browser, under the view menu, there should be a zoom option. Pick 125% and that should make it much better to view. Or you can use the 'Text Size' option under the view menu to make the letters bigger. If you have trouble finding where it is, post back here what browser you are using and the mod will give you exact instructions on that.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 12 Oct 2007, 15:27

thanks. I will utilise the zoom facility, I have become a member only 3 months back , recommended by my relative Ramra(vageyakkara), I have become an addict of this wonderful , educative programme. I have said goodbye to all the soap serials in various cahannels , spending my time very usually, i wish i had become a member much earlier .excuse me for taking so much time gobilalitha

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Oct 2007, 02:01

Manjunath,
I just read your post and came to know that your family for generations has been steeped in music. No wonder you are keen on the nuances of music and lyrics. Good to know you give mini concerts too.
Some tamizh speaking rasikAs benefit as well with the meaning of songs since they are not familiar with anything more than conversational tamizh...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Oct 2007, 04:45

gobilalitha:
Were you also aware that the tunes of both Papanasham Shivan's song kaNNan madhura idazh aDaindAi and Guhan's kandan karuNai puriyum vaDivEl are copies of Amirbai Karnataki's song bIna madhura madhura kachu bOl, in bhImpalAs, from the 1940s film Ramrajya?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Oct 2007, 08:05

Lakshman,
'kaNNan madura'...?? Don't remember the rest. I was a very young child then. Is it the same that I am thinking of from the tamizh (dubbed) version of 'RamrAjyA? The song continues as Santamigum jankArattinAle, kalangA vANi bramaiyE koNDadEnO?

This belongs to the genre of lyrics which suffered even in the hands of ace composers because the words had to be concocted to more or less match the lip movements of the singer in the hindi version of the movie!
The other film that comes to mind is mehboob's An (the very first indian color film?). How I wish the other 'missing member' were here to illustrate this point with a clip! Mohd Rafi singing beautifully in tamizh with words which lacked the lyrical quality of the original, just because the lyricists in tamizh had to fabricate them to suit the hindi singing on the screen! Ugh!
Example: sunE phir hAyE, sunE phir hAyE woh kiskI bAt hO! became durai magaLtAne, durai magaLtAne yAr Sol kETPALu hO! No wonder, we preferred singing the hindi version!
Ravi, I would like to know your reaction to this!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 16 Oct 2007, 15:56

laksman, I have already posted a clipping about madurai mani iyer's very popular kandan karunai puriyum vadivel, adapted from bina madhura madhura in the film ram rajya, the same was sung by saraswati devi

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:04

arasi:
Here are the two song lyrics.

kaNNan madhura idazhai. rAgA: bhImpalAs. Adi tALA. Composer: P.Shivan.

P: kaNNan madhura idazhai aDaindAi
A: puNNiyam IdO yOgiyar viNNOr inbura maraLI nI iNaiyillA
nAdamOD-ishai amudu pozhindAi pankaja tirumalarp-pAdam shErndAi
C1: unnuDan konji kaNamOr yugamAi uLLam urugum ennai marandAi
taruNam pArttu un nenjam irangi nIyAghilum enadu peyar shol
2: un tiru nAmam kadari pulambum aDiyAL rAdhai enum aghadip-pEdai
viraha vEdanaip-puyal maDindAL enrOr mozhi pughazhvEn-kuzhalE

kandan karuNai. rAgA: bhImpalAs. Composer: Guhan.

P: kandan karuNai puriyum vaDivEl
A: aruL oLi yoDu Avi kalandE anbum ATralum arivum nayandE
iru sukham IndE iDargaL kalaindE inbura sheidiDum iraivan kai vEl
C1: vEmpaghai konrE veTri tarum vEl vEda poruLai viLakkum mayil vEl
nambum aDiyAr nalam vaLar pon vEl nangai vaLLiyin tiru nAyakan vEl
2: kunru tOrADum kumaran aruL vEl kOlamayil naTam konjiDum sevvEl
aNDam aNDiDum Adi maghal nAm annai parAshakti arut-shuDar vEl

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:33

Thank you, Lakshman.
Now I remember some of the lip sync song lines from rAmrAjA:

vINaiyin inimaiyE tarum iSai pOL
Santamigum jankArattinAlE
kalangA vANi bramaiyE koNDadEnO/
viraha vEdanai.............
manjuLa manOharam taruvAi nI!

This is the kind of lyrics I was talking about...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 31 Mar 2009, 22:28

After a long, long search I managed to obtain the song clip by Sheila Sarkar - tOOt gayi man bInA, the tune of which was used for the MSS song kATrinilE varum gItam. For those interested here is the d/l link.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6a92 ... 8114394287

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Apr 2009, 01:43

Thanks Lakshman. Rare find indeed.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Apr 2009, 02:10

Oh LJI!

Great! Thanks for sharing. kATrinilE is very faithful to the original!