Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
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I read the translation of BGAK's interview with much interest - shankarji lagtaa hai aap bhi raisii khaandaan ke ho jo aapne unki zubaan hamari oar mehkaa diyaa... iske liye shukraan!! Asthayi (sthayi) refers to the section of the khayal that is rendered in the lower or middle range of the octave while antara is set to the upper range / tetrachord. In this context asthayi antare ka bharna likely refers to appropriate melodic improvisation during these stages of development of the khayal. With regard to "thumri ke ang", the purab style (originating from Banaras in UP) emphasizes narration of lyrics (bol banao - Thumri derives from "thumak" and is sometimes included in Kathak dance recitals for abhinaya). The bandish ka thumri on the other hand, resembles a chhota khayal. With regard to the "patiala" or "panjabi" ang, BGAK saheb gives us a sampling of "tirchi najariya ke baan" and also a delightful "ras ke bhare tore nain" in his interview. Khan saheb also mentions "kans swaron ka khel" and "suron ka lagaav" during raag vistaar. His recordings of allied ragas such as Darbari Kanhada (a poorvaanga pradhana raga) and Adana (an uttaranga pradhana raga) illustrate this aspect beautifully.
Meena: Thanks for the birth centenary feature on BGAK saheb from Sruti. Opinions may vary but I felt that the statement "Other than his recorded music, the BGAK legacy is negligible" was condescending. He was a great artiste who exemplified aesthetic refinement; a gifted composer with a catholicity of outlook unparalleled in his time - his compositions on "Himachalkumari" and "Har Mahadev" bear ample testimony - Suhaan Allah; a torch bearer of a glorious tradition that went on to nourish the talents of Munawwar Ali Khan Saheb and more recently Pandit Ajoy Chakraborty. That he gives Coolkarni, Divakar, Meena and Shankar so much to share with all of us is indeed BGAK saheb's lasting legacy.
Meena: Thanks for the birth centenary feature on BGAK saheb from Sruti. Opinions may vary but I felt that the statement "Other than his recorded music, the BGAK legacy is negligible" was condescending. He was a great artiste who exemplified aesthetic refinement; a gifted composer with a catholicity of outlook unparalleled in his time - his compositions on "Himachalkumari" and "Har Mahadev" bear ample testimony - Suhaan Allah; a torch bearer of a glorious tradition that went on to nourish the talents of Munawwar Ali Khan Saheb and more recently Pandit Ajoy Chakraborty. That he gives Coolkarni, Divakar, Meena and Shankar so much to share with all of us is indeed BGAK saheb's lasting legacy.
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Coolkarni Sir aap meherbaan ho main aapkaa aabhaari hoon. itna kuch sunne ko mil raha hai ki main to bilkul fida ho gaya... leejiye BGAK saab ke bhai Ustad Barkat Ali Khan ka gaya hua "ras ke bhare tore nain" aur "tum radhe bano shyam" suniye
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549393
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549394
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549393
http://www.badongo.com/file/2549394
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I am flattered! THANKS. But I have to say that sometimes it is way beyond my means to translate, because I am at a loss for words to communicate the beauty of some of khAn sa'ab's statements.knandago2001 wrote:I read the translation of BGAK's interview with much interest - shankarji lagtaa hai aap bhi raisii khaandaan ke ho jo aapne unki zubaan hamari oar mehkaa diyaa... iske liye shukraan!!
THANKS. I was hoping someone would explain that. He uses it repeatedly, esp. in part II of the interview.knandago2001 wrote:Asthayi (sthayi) refers to the section of the khayal that is rendered in the lower or middle range of the octave while antara is set to the upper range / tetrachord. In this context asthayi antare ka bharna likely refers to appropriate melodic improvisation during these stages of development of the khayal.
Your explanation of the Thumri was excellent. Please continue to proof my translations, and add explanations where necessary. I am only translating the language; I do not have sufficient credentials to understand, let alone translate, the 'melody' that seems to be inherent to every breath (and not just in his music) of this great man.
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ravi - thanks. It allowed me to atleast relate a bit to the interview even though i understand 0% of the words
A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?
Of course not knowing what he is saying i dont know which is which and so apologies for any gross misunderstanding.
Arun
A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?
Of course not knowing what he is saying i dont know which is which and so apologies for any gross misunderstanding.
Arun
Last edited by arunk on 24 Mar 2007, 01:37, edited 1 time in total.
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First 10 minutes of Part II:
This part is very much conversation intense, and I may have missed pieces here and there - like I said, the beauty of the language is simply unrivalled, and so, parts may have been 'lost in translation' (in my opinion, the beauty of urdU may even rival Ms Johansson's undeniable charms!). Please feel free to correct any of the missed/mis-translated parts.
The track begins with the conclusion of the pahADI piece that was begun at the end of Part I.
BGAK: His voice (I presume he means his cacA) was so sweet. We can never forget the tune and how we lost ourselves in it. This tune is from punjAb.
US: Your gharAnA has made this 'yours'. You own it now!
BGAK: It was his to begin with, and today, my voice is his.
Other Male Voice: With a possible contribution from the land (zamIn) - (the influence of the culture of punjAb)
BGAK: Oh Yes! The connection to the land is definite and tangible, and is present in everyone and everywhere.
US: You have seen several generations of musicians, and have interacted with many stalwarts. Can you share those experiences with us, and highlight their personalities and the characteristics of their music?
BGAK: The stalwarts of the old! They do not make them like that anymore! When I think of them, my heart grows heavy. What can I say about them? With their rigorous practice they became emperors (bAdSA) of music, and whoever heard them was enslaved. If I have to tell you what set them apart, then it will be their ability to fill the sthAyi antari (see knanandago2001's explanation for this), the ability to sing the rAg correctly (this part was muffled, but I think he means 'at the correct time, in the right way), and training their voices and setting it perfectly to the tAnpurA (exacting Sruti alingment) - this is disappearing these days. They did not play fast and loose with the rAg or their devotion, or play to the audience (I think he means changing the pattern of the concert based on the kind/size of the audience). Whenever they sang, wherever they sang, they created a thing of beauty.
US: Can you mention the names of a few of these stars whose music is still fresh in your memory?
BGAK: My great-grandfather (pardAdA) ustAd khAn sAheb's (did not catch his name - I think he moved his face away from the mike) son, khAn sa'ab umrAo pAshA - he demonstrated the best technique to sing a khayAl - subhAn allAh - he was unique! khAn sAheb nazIr khAn murAdAbAdI - he was unrivalled. I found something unique in his singing. Then there were khAn sAheb allAhbandE khAn and nasIruddin khAn who were also wonderful. I loved their 'vilambat' singing. It stood out as vilambat unlike what I hear today. My teachers used to say that there are some rAgs that have everything and you can do anything with them. Then, there are some that are not that fulfilling or fun-filled (mazEdAr nahIn hai) . One such is cArukESi.
Other male voice: cArukESi is an rAg from South (India).
BGAK: The rAg can be from anyhwhere, North, East, West, or South - I am only concerned about the purity og the rAg. He sings the mUrchana of chArukESi to demo whay it is not a good rAg in his opinion. Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi). Now the people from Madras have many rAgs. Some are undeniably great, while some are beyond my understanding. I will not call that bad!
US: Everyone has their own way of doing things.
BGAK: I prefer rAgs where the swars in the phrases are well distributed. He demos a particular phrases with couplet swaras to show why it'd be unbalanced and difficult to sing.
(He talks about vAdi and samvAdi swaras. He says the swaras have to compliment and 'help' each other.)
BGAK: Let is take tODi for example - it has beautifully balanced swar pairs (jOD) - samvAdi sur. If we miss some of the swars it will not sound so good! Now, this is what I have heard from my forefathers and learned/learnt from my own observations: rAgs where these kind of swar JOD can be made are the best. Now many people may not agree with me, and I say this hesitantly: Our elders made music and so do we - I just feel bad when our music doesn't match up to theirs. Examples are new rAgs like mArwA (? no samvAdI swar), pUriya, sOhni, kIrvAni, jOnpuri...
Other male voice: I am sure you did not hear these when you were young.
BGAK: I have not heard cArukEsi or kIrvAni when I was younger. But nowadays, people want to hear/sing some new rAg. I was taught a few rAgs and told to practice and get better in singing them. Now, I have grown old practicing those, and I will continue to polish them until my dying day. Our elders have chosen 15 - 20 rAgs that are beautiful and complete and have everything to offer. There are only 7 surs, what more can you do with them?
US: In your opinion, what will the fate of our classical music and do you think of the efforts to keep it alive.
BGAK: Music has changed with time and will continue to do so. But one great thing is that this art form (kalA) has come into it's own now. In the olden days, people were not that into music (gAnA bajAnA), but nowadays they are very much into it - and I feel excited (like I have just come into this field). But I have to ask myslef this: Of the thousands that come to concerts these days, how many are truly knowledgeable? In the past the rAjA/nawAb/tAluqdAr etc used to be in the audience and there were probably 20-30 people in the audience, but they were connoissseurs. These patrons were the ones who were responsible for keeping the artform alive. To get a token of appreciation from them (a 'wAh wAh') was almost impossible - more difficult that even getting paid for the concert!
OTHER PARTS TO FOLLOW.
This part is very much conversation intense, and I may have missed pieces here and there - like I said, the beauty of the language is simply unrivalled, and so, parts may have been 'lost in translation' (in my opinion, the beauty of urdU may even rival Ms Johansson's undeniable charms!). Please feel free to correct any of the missed/mis-translated parts.
The track begins with the conclusion of the pahADI piece that was begun at the end of Part I.
BGAK: His voice (I presume he means his cacA) was so sweet. We can never forget the tune and how we lost ourselves in it. This tune is from punjAb.
US: Your gharAnA has made this 'yours'. You own it now!
BGAK: It was his to begin with, and today, my voice is his.
Other Male Voice: With a possible contribution from the land (zamIn) - (the influence of the culture of punjAb)
BGAK: Oh Yes! The connection to the land is definite and tangible, and is present in everyone and everywhere.
US: You have seen several generations of musicians, and have interacted with many stalwarts. Can you share those experiences with us, and highlight their personalities and the characteristics of their music?
BGAK: The stalwarts of the old! They do not make them like that anymore! When I think of them, my heart grows heavy. What can I say about them? With their rigorous practice they became emperors (bAdSA) of music, and whoever heard them was enslaved. If I have to tell you what set them apart, then it will be their ability to fill the sthAyi antari (see knanandago2001's explanation for this), the ability to sing the rAg correctly (this part was muffled, but I think he means 'at the correct time, in the right way), and training their voices and setting it perfectly to the tAnpurA (exacting Sruti alingment) - this is disappearing these days. They did not play fast and loose with the rAg or their devotion, or play to the audience (I think he means changing the pattern of the concert based on the kind/size of the audience). Whenever they sang, wherever they sang, they created a thing of beauty.
US: Can you mention the names of a few of these stars whose music is still fresh in your memory?
BGAK: My great-grandfather (pardAdA) ustAd khAn sAheb's (did not catch his name - I think he moved his face away from the mike) son, khAn sa'ab umrAo pAshA - he demonstrated the best technique to sing a khayAl - subhAn allAh - he was unique! khAn sAheb nazIr khAn murAdAbAdI - he was unrivalled. I found something unique in his singing. Then there were khAn sAheb allAhbandE khAn and nasIruddin khAn who were also wonderful. I loved their 'vilambat' singing. It stood out as vilambat unlike what I hear today. My teachers used to say that there are some rAgs that have everything and you can do anything with them. Then, there are some that are not that fulfilling or fun-filled (mazEdAr nahIn hai) . One such is cArukESi.
Other male voice: cArukESi is an rAg from South (India).
BGAK: The rAg can be from anyhwhere, North, East, West, or South - I am only concerned about the purity og the rAg. He sings the mUrchana of chArukESi to demo whay it is not a good rAg in his opinion. Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi). Now the people from Madras have many rAgs. Some are undeniably great, while some are beyond my understanding. I will not call that bad!
US: Everyone has their own way of doing things.
BGAK: I prefer rAgs where the swars in the phrases are well distributed. He demos a particular phrases with couplet swaras to show why it'd be unbalanced and difficult to sing.
(He talks about vAdi and samvAdi swaras. He says the swaras have to compliment and 'help' each other.)
BGAK: Let is take tODi for example - it has beautifully balanced swar pairs (jOD) - samvAdi sur. If we miss some of the swars it will not sound so good! Now, this is what I have heard from my forefathers and learned/learnt from my own observations: rAgs where these kind of swar JOD can be made are the best. Now many people may not agree with me, and I say this hesitantly: Our elders made music and so do we - I just feel bad when our music doesn't match up to theirs. Examples are new rAgs like mArwA (? no samvAdI swar), pUriya, sOhni, kIrvAni, jOnpuri...
Other male voice: I am sure you did not hear these when you were young.
BGAK: I have not heard cArukEsi or kIrvAni when I was younger. But nowadays, people want to hear/sing some new rAg. I was taught a few rAgs and told to practice and get better in singing them. Now, I have grown old practicing those, and I will continue to polish them until my dying day. Our elders have chosen 15 - 20 rAgs that are beautiful and complete and have everything to offer. There are only 7 surs, what more can you do with them?
US: In your opinion, what will the fate of our classical music and do you think of the efforts to keep it alive.
BGAK: Music has changed with time and will continue to do so. But one great thing is that this art form (kalA) has come into it's own now. In the olden days, people were not that into music (gAnA bajAnA), but nowadays they are very much into it - and I feel excited (like I have just come into this field). But I have to ask myslef this: Of the thousands that come to concerts these days, how many are truly knowledgeable? In the past the rAjA/nawAb/tAluqdAr etc used to be in the audience and there were probably 20-30 people in the audience, but they were connoissseurs. These patrons were the ones who were responsible for keeping the artform alive. To get a token of appreciation from them (a 'wAh wAh') was almost impossible - more difficult that even getting paid for the concert!
OTHER PARTS TO FOLLOW.
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Arun, I think that is exactly what he means. He calls a Thumri light, but then says that it is hard to sing a little bit later. So, if something is light, but hard to sing, then I wonder what something that is heavy (like a khayAl) will be - impossible?arunk wrote:A question (to you and/or others): When he demonstrates singing in pure raga style vs thumri (i.e. "light" as per him), it seemed to me that the thumri style as demonstrated by him had a lot more "crooning" and perhaps extraneous ornamentations? Is this what he is referring to? I.e. go into unnecessary theatrics and thus making it contrived?
Arun
There is a Darbari that I am working upon now , where Bade laments
People say - I am a thumri singer - as is there not a world of difference between the two ?
And sings the Thumri bit in Darbari first
http://www.badongo.com/file/2554722
And then when he takes up the Khayal bit in Darbari- It is like a storm gathering on the horizon...
More later.
People say - I am a thumri singer - as is there not a world of difference between the two ?
And sings the Thumri bit in Darbari first
http://www.badongo.com/file/2554722
And then when he takes up the Khayal bit in Darbari- It is like a storm gathering on the horizon...
More later.
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He says- of the 5 swaras(R,G,M,D,N), all except gAndhAra are as in jOnpuri. ANd that they all form vAdi-samvAdi pairs except gAndhAra which stands as the odd man out. Hence the other 4 (cArO~n) got together and filed a case against gAndhAra and hence the name cArukESirshankar wrote:Can I tell you something funny? (this is not something I caught well - something about the gAndhAr in the kEs/hair of 4/cAr swars - and hence the name cArukEsi).
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Both, BGAK's uncle Ustad Kale Khan and his father Ustad Ali Baksh received extensive taalim from Ustad Fateh Ali. While BGAK spent his formative years under the wing of Kale Khan saheb, he was equally anxious to know of his father's assessment of his music. Apparently, he used to ask "Abba ab kaisi hai meri haalat?" The initial feedback "betaa jiske paas sur nahin hai, uske paas kuch bhi nahin" spurred BGAK on to more rigorous riyaaz... After this happened several times, Ali Baksh remarked "haan betaa, kuchh to achha hua hai, lekin Fateh Ali Khan Saheb ki nazdeek abhi tak bilkul nahin pahuncha!" These excerpts are taken from seminar proceedings at the ITC-SRA.
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Kji
wonderful Darbari Kanada. another lec-dem.. very nice.
thank you.
oh! i forgot ..
the clip ends with some more to come. is that all or is there a continuation in the next clip ? just curious.
wonderful Darbari Kanada. another lec-dem.. very nice.
thank you.
oh! i forgot ..
the clip ends with some more to come. is that all or is there a continuation in the next clip ? just curious.
Last edited by divakar on 26 Mar 2007, 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Thank you for your response Mr. Jayram. I will appreciate if someone can re load the deleted files especially on RogePost since it seems that all files have been deleted. Also some files on SendSpace have been deleted (I am especially interested in Bade Ghulam Ali Khan's Miyan Ki Malhar).
Thanks,
Raju
Thanks,
Raju
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Respected Coolkarni Saab, I am a new member in this community. My regards to all my elders. And my thanks to all of u for posting such good materials on Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan Sahab. Sir, it would be very kind on your part to upload the Miyan Ki Malhar by Ustadji (in Sendspace) once again. The particular file has expired. Thanks.
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Non-Commercial Recordings of BGK.
Kamod - http://www.mediafire.com/?0x3mxdjfz2z
Chhayanat - http://www.mediafire.com/?0dcbzdexctx
Gunkali (Different from All India Radio Archival Release) - http://www.mediafire.com/?cz4limjocn4
Kamod - http://www.mediafire.com/?0x3mxdjfz2z
Chhayanat - http://www.mediafire.com/?0dcbzdexctx
Gunkali (Different from All India Radio Archival Release) - http://www.mediafire.com/?cz4limjocn4
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
The weekend is too shortmankuthimma wrote:http://www.mediafire.com/?wrp7xm9rb8ycxcf
Settle down to a great weekend with a Genius
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Re:
mehfil wrote:A rare old video (stream) of Ustadh Bade Ghulam Ali Khan Saheb:
http://mehfiltube.magnify.net/item/9QLVB47RKXH5S842
You can listen to Khansaheb's favorite bhajan in Raag Pahadi.A beautiful composition and perfect rendering!
Hari Om Tatsat Hari Om at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB5sYNmzrb4
'He sings as if he is the male embodiment of Goddess Saraswati, and though a Muslim, he renders a Hindu devotional hymn without any sectarian pull. Others lecture about inter-faith
goodwill. He and other musicians like him LIVED that spirit.'
venkatakailasam
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
He has gone ahead further .he renders a Hindu devotional hymn without any sectarian pull. Others lecture about inter-faith
Show me a single track where he is singing in praise of a Non-Hindu God . Something even as simple as Allah Tero Naam.
A rare case of someone making a difficult choice to choose India , after Partition.
He was asecular if such a term exists - like amoral which is neither moral nor immoral.
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
While Ustad has rendered Hari Om Tatsat Hari Om ,
here is a link where Pandit Jasraj rendering 'Mero Allah meherban'
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeT1H80tfP0 in raag Bhairav .
Natural secularism exist in the field of music.
venkatakailasam
here is a link where Pandit Jasraj rendering 'Mero Allah meherban'
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeT1H80tfP0 in raag Bhairav .
Natural secularism exist in the field of music.
venkatakailasam
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Ustad Ghulam Mustafa Khan (Sonu Nigam's guru) and Parween Sultana who come to mind rendering beautiful songs on Ganesha and Saraswathi.
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Parveens husband (and Guru in later years) -Mohd Dishad Khan- Is a Hindu by birth. Not a Muslim.
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Very true, he was some --- Dasgupta, a bengali chap, a high post naval engineer before he became M. dilshad khan, a full time into music.
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Brother of Budd Deb DasGupta , Sarod Maestro . I was told.
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Another example of a secular minded Muslim is legendary Mohd Rafi. gobilalitha
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
There are so many such secular musicians - too many to list.
A few examples Ustad Ali Akbar Khan, his son, Ashish Khan (now back converted into Hindu), Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, married to Bharatantyam dancer Subhalakshmi.....
A few examples Ustad Ali Akbar Khan, his son, Ashish Khan (now back converted into Hindu), Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, married to Bharatantyam dancer Subhalakshmi.....
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
And Allauddin Khan ?
Who rechristened his daughter as Annapurna Devi .
More recently , Kaushiki Chakraborthy becoming Kaushiki Desikan - I can imagine the Scenes - of her serving Fish Fry to to some surpised in laws.
Who rechristened his daughter as Annapurna Devi .
More recently , Kaushiki Chakraborthy becoming Kaushiki Desikan - I can imagine the Scenes - of her serving Fish Fry to to some surpised in laws.
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
How did I forget his immortal songs in baiju Bawra.gobilalitha wrote:Another example of a secular minded Muslim is legendary Mohd Rafi. gobilalitha
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Your probably got lost.
In your search for Hari's Darushan, today.
Which, your mind had been pining for .
In your search for Hari's Darushan, today.
Which, your mind had been pining for .
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Re: First 78 rpm of BGA
At last....U. BADE GULAM ALI'S FIRST 78 RPM RECORD FEATURING MARVA & SURSARANG. (Jein O Phone JP 751)
mediafire links
SURSARANG - http://www.mediafire.com/?8lh0koqt3a7r4ca
MARVA - http://www.mediafire.com/?qtvrys0rg2iy3uv
Enjoy !! -Dr. Kashyap (drkashyapdave@gmail.com)
mediafire links
SURSARANG - http://www.mediafire.com/?8lh0koqt3a7r4ca
MARVA - http://www.mediafire.com/?qtvrys0rg2iy3uv
Enjoy !! -Dr. Kashyap (drkashyapdave@gmail.com)
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Re: Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
Thanks
breathtaking
breathtaking