Am catching up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amv4lVlp1SA - RKM's single mike concert at ARKAY's
About 6.2K views in the last 4 days.
Assuming that RKM is one of the most sought after artiste and quite popular in CM, say in the top 5 percentile of performing artistes, could one use this to estimate CM audience size? Say can one reasonably surmise in total the CM audience can range in 3x (min) to 5x (max) of 6.2K, ~19K - 30K?
IMO this is an interesting subject - what params can be used to extrapolate that 6.2K* views in 4 days to a reasonable CM audience. As it is available monetarily free and location/time etc. are a non-concern, what else all could impact this? Can one reduce that by performing/under tutelage artistes and teachers only population , say 3K-5K worldwide?
*all unique? 80/20 unique/non-unique, again 80/20 listened in full/only partially, what else?
Carnatic Music - Audience Size
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shankarank
- Posts: 4067
- Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
Re: Carnatic Music - Audience Size
His first edition kaanada has 122 K views in 2 years , but bhairavi ragam tanam has 65k views. If you take that high number 122k and given first edition channel has more reach than standard kutchery channels and assume a 3 to 4 repetition factor, you get the same estimate by division!
If division method is corroborative, alternate and removes multiplication bias that is
So those who have ear for a contemporary best Carnatic musician, globally is about that many!
And few other popular musicians seem to count that many viewers in the immediate weeks around 6 - 9k.
If division method is corroborative, alternate and removes multiplication bias that is
So those who have ear for a contemporary best Carnatic musician, globally is about that many!
And few other popular musicians seem to count that many viewers in the immediate weeks around 6 - 9k.
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nAdopAsaka
- Posts: 890
- Joined: 20 Jul 2020, 17:05
Re: Carnatic Music - Audience Size
I have reservations about judging a Carnatic Audio recital by a Video performance measure.
Post # 1 is aware of at least one of the pitfalls of this number-crunching. I assume the phrase “full/partial viewing” implies whether someone Clicked on for only a brief, casual “view”.
By at least a few thread posts on this very forum, it appears some actual concert-goers are there for the “spectacle”, to ogle the stage-artistes etc. for their physical characteristics.
Audience vs Vid-ience ?
Assuming it needs to be judged, Should/Can a Carnatic vocal/instrumental performance and its “popularity” be properly judged by “Views” instead of just “Hears” ?
Should the much more amorphous (and sobering) “Likes” be a relevant measure ?
Sound-relying artistes have increasingly been deferring to Sight and performance-art.
The trend perhaps began with the Beatles record covers (which were creative), then became more and more lurid, with the excesses of the MTV generation of the late 70’s/early 80’s to commercialize muck..
How do the numbers change if only an audio-file of a Carnatic performance plays or a still-shot shows during the video ..here too the nature of the still-shot can skew some numbers. The equivalent would be a blind-fold handed out by an usher.
What if the Clicker = the view-maker , who may or may not be a student of Carnatic music, is “hearing-impaired” or “sight-impaired” or both.
Does the Clickee (the Carnatic artist) care ?
Probably not. Hopefully the Carnatic artist is immune from popularity contests and the craving to be “sought-after” ?
One example of a “performance” where if either the audio or the video was turned off, would still be a huge hit is this terrific 11 year old Sabdam thillai ambalam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJrUyW2i0Ak
I do not follow classical dance, and I do not know of the singer, but I have little question this is an exceptional “performance” in either Audio or Video, that will have a long and sustained online presence.
Post # 1 is aware of at least one of the pitfalls of this number-crunching. I assume the phrase “full/partial viewing” implies whether someone Clicked on for only a brief, casual “view”.
By at least a few thread posts on this very forum, it appears some actual concert-goers are there for the “spectacle”, to ogle the stage-artistes etc. for their physical characteristics.
Audience vs Vid-ience ?
Assuming it needs to be judged, Should/Can a Carnatic vocal/instrumental performance and its “popularity” be properly judged by “Views” instead of just “Hears” ?
Should the much more amorphous (and sobering) “Likes” be a relevant measure ?
Sound-relying artistes have increasingly been deferring to Sight and performance-art.
The trend perhaps began with the Beatles record covers (which were creative), then became more and more lurid, with the excesses of the MTV generation of the late 70’s/early 80’s to commercialize muck..
How do the numbers change if only an audio-file of a Carnatic performance plays or a still-shot shows during the video ..here too the nature of the still-shot can skew some numbers. The equivalent would be a blind-fold handed out by an usher.
What if the Clicker = the view-maker , who may or may not be a student of Carnatic music, is “hearing-impaired” or “sight-impaired” or both.
Does the Clickee (the Carnatic artist) care ?
Probably not. Hopefully the Carnatic artist is immune from popularity contests and the craving to be “sought-after” ?
One example of a “performance” where if either the audio or the video was turned off, would still be a huge hit is this terrific 11 year old Sabdam thillai ambalam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJrUyW2i0Ak
I do not follow classical dance, and I do not know of the singer, but I have little question this is an exceptional “performance” in either Audio or Video, that will have a long and sustained online presence.
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sankark
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10
Re: Carnatic Music - Audience Size
nAdopasaka - a live concert is a audio-visual entertainment, unless one is blind or chooses to close ones eyes for the entire concert. So theres that!
Easily 20-25% of audience does/can walk out post tani. In Chennai too! So partial/full view of concert isn't a biggy and same carries over to www.
Online is more conducive to passive listening without distracting near by folks - stream the YT (FB or whatever is your whim) and then you can carry on with your chores/WFH too instead of being seated in the venue and scrolling through WA/FB/news updates. And pause/rewind/relive/whatnot for active listeners.
Easily 20-25% of audience does/can walk out post tani. In Chennai too! So partial/full view of concert isn't a biggy and same carries over to www.
Online is more conducive to passive listening without distracting near by folks - stream the YT (FB or whatever is your whim) and then you can carry on with your chores/WFH too instead of being seated in the venue and scrolling through WA/FB/news updates. And pause/rewind/relive/whatnot for active listeners.
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shankarank
- Posts: 4067
- Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
Re: Carnatic Music - Audience Size
When you are statistical, you allow for some error margins, ignore fine details and hope that the factors you use account for some noise. Else you will need more information and data to perform deeper analytics.
For something esoteric like Carnatic music in the milieu of all things out there, one can assume that the clickers are somewhat serious and can handle the music, as it is much different from any other type of music. I mean that assumption will not result in severe statistical error, if you know what I mean.
If you prefer, I can give you another pointer. Popular, but yet considered as artistes adhering to classicism, commanded about 600 - 800 listeners in a large Indian population center like Dallas. Assuming 200 others were not able to make it that day, you can round it off to 1000.
Multiply by the number of such dense centers of South Indian presence, about 10 of them you get 10,000 people who can sit through 3 hours of a concert.
And the US statistic is significant as many artistes spend much of their time touring here only. You can then add Europe and Australia. You will get a diaspora estimate.
As for India, things are too complicated: Crowded season, commute issues, many centers of Carnatic activity turning geriatric etc. One has to go around and collect more data.
In fact, I would say the live audience attendance in Arkay and Nada Inbam, don't count for anything. They are like artist selection committee!
For something esoteric like Carnatic music in the milieu of all things out there, one can assume that the clickers are somewhat serious and can handle the music, as it is much different from any other type of music. I mean that assumption will not result in severe statistical error, if you know what I mean.
If you prefer, I can give you another pointer. Popular, but yet considered as artistes adhering to classicism, commanded about 600 - 800 listeners in a large Indian population center like Dallas. Assuming 200 others were not able to make it that day, you can round it off to 1000.
Multiply by the number of such dense centers of South Indian presence, about 10 of them you get 10,000 people who can sit through 3 hours of a concert.
And the US statistic is significant as many artistes spend much of their time touring here only. You can then add Europe and Australia. You will get a diaspora estimate.
As for India, things are too complicated: Crowded season, commute issues, many centers of Carnatic activity turning geriatric etc. One has to go around and collect more data.
In fact, I would say the live audience attendance in Arkay and Nada Inbam, don't count for anything. They are like artist selection committee!
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RSR
- Posts: 3427
- Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31
Re: Carnatic Music - Audience Size
Except old people, nobody has the time to even view/listen to any youtube video for more than 10 minutes. (That applies to any program in youtube).
Naadhabrungha is doing fine by providing video-splitting timelines, and a description, so that the listener can jump directly to the portion that is of interest to him/her.
Better still the uploader can provide for subtitle ,giving some details about the venue and date/time/song detail. in easc segment.
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I think, it is neither the 'views' nor 'likes' which can give an indication of the popularity but the 'comments' number perhaps does.
but even that is no reliable indication.
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If the emphasis is on the 'music' and not on the 'visuals', a still 'photo of the team will be less distracting. Slides can be used.
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I think, companies are wasting huge amounts in advertisements through web-media. Mostly, these advts are just irritating .
- Unless the event is advertised in advance, that also may reduce the number of 'likes', 'views' and 'comments'
-
Where is the time? for youngsters , even if they are interested?
Naadhabrungha is doing fine by providing video-splitting timelines, and a description, so that the listener can jump directly to the portion that is of interest to him/her.
Better still the uploader can provide for subtitle ,giving some details about the venue and date/time/song detail. in easc segment.
--
I think, it is neither the 'views' nor 'likes' which can give an indication of the popularity but the 'comments' number perhaps does.
but even that is no reliable indication.
-
If the emphasis is on the 'music' and not on the 'visuals', a still 'photo of the team will be less distracting. Slides can be used.
-
I think, companies are wasting huge amounts in advertisements through web-media. Mostly, these advts are just irritating .
- Unless the event is advertised in advance, that also may reduce the number of 'likes', 'views' and 'comments'
-
Where is the time? for youngsters , even if they are interested?