Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

This is Smt.MS singing 'Bruhi Mukundeti' of Sadasiva Brammendram ,in the film 'Savithri'- 1941, her third film appearance out of five. She acted as Naradhar in that film. .She acted in that film to raise funds for Kalki magazine. It was recorded in Calcutta studio.
Smt.Gowry, narrates how great singers then present in the studio were mesmerized and heaped praise on her singing. It was during that visit to Calcutta, Smt.MS befriended Smt.' Chinnani', mother of (late)Sri.MKR. It was a life-long ,intimate and endearing friendship and it seems they would converse for long time, but on everything except music !
What is the raagam? Kurinji? Was the music composed by SSI?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uMkq7q ... sp=sharing
-
We find the same song in a nearly 4 hour concert in Parthasarathy Sangita Sabha , in 1976 -when she was 60 years. Upload by Raju Asokan. Song list says that the raaga is Chenchurutti..is it a different version? Not atall likely.

===============================================
Here is Lata with Saraswathi Raane (second daughter of Ustad Abdul Karim Khan- and sister of Hirabai Barodekar ) in 1950 film 'Sargam' ---music by C.Ramachandra.
The raagam is variously said to be devagandhar/ asaveri/ jonpuri. -
all similar sounding raagas.
Lata was 20 then.
jab dil ko sataye gam tu chhed sakhi sargam..Sargam1950_Lata_ Saraswati Rane_C Ramchandr..a tribute

https://youtu.be/m8VBOFfEw60

===============================================

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

To me, C.Ramachandra's music made an impact with this film! JOnpuri is how this song sounds to me. Latha's singing, Rajkapoor and Rehna in the lead. tinak tin tAnE was another. main hUN Ek khalAsi by Chittalkar himself, if I recall well.
A new world opened up for a little girl with his music and of others via hindi films. Naushad was another at that time, very different but commanding.

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Kalki wrote in his sleeve notes on 1945 78 rpm set.
"Meera travels through a desert on the back of a camel.
'engum niRAindAyE, inRu
engu maRaindAyO? ' she sings.
The melody fits the scene perfectly. You hear in the background, music unfolding the impact of an endless desert and the slow progress of the caravan in melodic sounds."
The prelude has the voice of S.V.Venkataraman
..
. Ilayaraja is said to have appreciated this particular song very much.
What is the raagam? MS in 1945
https://meera1945.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_78.html
engum nirainthaye
==============================================
Here is Lata in 'Shin Shinakii , bubla boo'- CRamachandra. Note the minimum orchestration and very sweet and plaintive voice .
1952-Lata 22 then.
https://youtu.be/vmzPqIKrNXw
'thum kya jane'
============================================

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Two evergreen Lori's by Lata
1) CRamachandra-Film Albela -1951-- 'dheere se aajaa' - Pilu raag-
https://youtu.be/Ym3uUeX4WHE

----------------------------
2) Salil Chowdhry- Film DhoBigaZamin - Bimal Roy direction. -1953
https://sites.google.com/site/decadesba ... igha-zamin

arasi
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Post by arasi »

RSR,
Double dip as it were! Two lovely lOri-s. Thanks.
My favorite dhIrE se AjAri akhiyan mE: Ramachandra is, as usual lilting (I reserve 'lilting' solely for him!). At the same time, so much musical vishayam (stuff) in it, the lyrics enhancing it. It gets more apparent when the reverse side (continuation of the song which we don't have here) takes a turn in the tune with the subject changing it to a lullaby of social concern: jagtI hai akhiyAn, sOti hai kismat dushman garIbOn kI--almost a reference to Oliver Goldsmith's City Night Piece. Sleep doesn't come to those in the slums while their fortunes remain dormant...There is so much texture musically too to this song. Well, I am prejudiced too because the song stirred me no end when I was a young girl.

AjArI A, nindiyA tu A is on a different plane altogether. Bimal Roy, Salil Chowdry and the bengali sensibilities of a different kind arrived then. Something new, even exotic, in spite of the theme of the film. I mean, musically it was so different then, adding a new dimension to our listening experience...

thenpaanan
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 19:45

Re:

Post by thenpaanan »

arasi wrote: 18 Apr 2022, 06:59 My favorite dhIrE se AjAri akhiyan mE: Ramachandra is, as usual lilting (I reserve 'lilting' solely for him!). At the same time, so much musical vishayam (stuff) in it, the lyrics enhancing it. It gets more apparent when the reverse side (continuation of the song which we don't have here) takes a turn in the tune with the subject changing it to a lullaby of social concern: jagtI hai akhiyAn, sOti hai kismat dushman garIbOn kI--almost a reference to Oliver Goldsmith's City Night Piece. Sleep doesn't come to those in the slums while their fortunes remain dormant...There is so much texture musically too to this song. Well, I am prejudiced too because the song stirred me no end when I was a young girl.
Here is the other half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d7g6FUIj0M

Until now I had never listened to the second version that has the social lyrics, so many thanks for the pointer. As it is this is one of the few (but not unique) songs where a lullaby is being sung for an adult, which makes for a different kind of sweet from a regular lullaby.

When you have a sweet song the melody lures you in at first, but after the first antara your mind starts to coast, and then a twist in the lyric makes your mind stand up and pay attention all over again! The mark of a superior song.

It is worth looking at the lyrics in full - I have copied the relevant part of the lyrics from the youtube link to be handy. Loose translations mine.

...
aa.Nkhe.n to sab kii hai.n ik jaisii [all our eyes are alike]
jaisii amiiro.n kii, gariibo.n kii vaisii [rich and poor alike]
palako.n kii suunii sii galiyan me.n [in the lonely street of these eyelids]
nindiyaa aajaa rii aajaa, dhiire se aajaa [come, tiptoe here, sleep]
dhiire se ...

o ….
jagatii hai a.Nkhiyaa.N sotii hai qismat, sotii hai qismat [our eyes are awake, but our fate slumbers]
dushman gariibo.n kii hotii hai qismat, hotii hai qismat [fate is the enemy of the poor]
dam bhar gariibo.n kii kuTiyan me.n [just for a moment in this humble hut]
nindiyaa aajaa rii aajaa, dhiire se aajaa [come, tiptoe in here, sleep]

On a personal note, when my daughters were babies, I used to sing some of these songs to put them to bed. Somehow this came up in a conversation recently and not one but both daughters (who are now teenagers) piped up "Dad, you realize we used to wait for you to stop singing so we could fall asleep?" The irony! :D

-T

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

p-156
@thenpaanan ,@arasi
Thank you for the second scene and translation. I had left out the second part , the audio and visuals, from different scenes, because , for people who have not seen or read about the story line, it wont be apparent that the first part is by a sister (vimla)for a grown up brother in fun but the second scene, where CR sings driving the car is to his sweetheart ?
.
What 'arasi' madam is referring to in the second part may not be CR's singing, but the tragic song sung again by ' vimla'
for about 2 mins. towards the close. ,after CR's song, in a different scene....I hope that I am not wrong.
takes a turn in the tune with the subject changing it to a lullaby of social concern: jagtI hai akhiyAn, sOti hai kismat dushman garIbOn kI--almost a reference to Oliver Goldsmith's City Night Piece. Sleep doesn't come to those in the slums while their fortunes remain dormant.
Generally, the sadder version of any song , is more lingering in memory and moving. (like the sad version of zindagi usiki hai classic).
I could not find a video version sans CR singing. This compilation, avoids male voices and visuals as far as possible. I have to learn the art of video-cutting. or audio-editing .
==
In the second lori from DoBighaZamin, the baby is seen trying to close the mouth of its mother and someone has commented about it as your daughters did!
-
Once again, thank you for the translation. The lines are good.

---
A translation by a friend.
-
Come sleep , come slowly on to the eyes
silently creep into the small eyes
Bring buds of sweet dreams through the eyelashes
Come sleep, come in through the eyelashes , come slowly
The night engulfs the stars stealthily and sings lullaby to the moon
And the moon also falls asleep
Last edited by RSR on 19 Apr 2022, 09:33, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

You are doubly pANan now--capturing the emotive aspect of the song in your translation!
As for your daughters--wait some years and see how their sentiments for you would blossom into things like "Ah, our Dad"!

Riveting to the two Bharath Ratnas, setting aside the sweetness in their voices (there are many sweet-voiced singers), as we go through what all they have sung, this is what strikes us: whatever the emotional content of the song, bhakthi, angst or joy, they sound as if that's what their voices were created for--to convey exactly that particular mood of the song.

Lata has sung for hundreds of actresses, often our seeing them on the screen. We don't complain (as in a concert--why the same accompanists all the time?). Even though the actresses have a range of voices when they speak, we don't notice the switch. She is part of the creation of the movie, like the good old camera which films any number of actresses. ..

RSR,
Liked your post!
As for CRamchandra, the song I said he sang was 'main hUn Ek khalAsi, mErA nAm hai bhImpalAsi', a joyful tune for Raj Kapoor to sing as a sailor in a skit in the film.

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

'oh ,sajna, barka bahaar aayi', was a great song by Lata from the film
Parak - 1960...with shades of HM Kamaaj. but very unique. There is a sitar interlude also. The music director was SALIL CHOWDRY. and director Bimal Roy. As in an earlier cited film, 'DoBighaZamin', the story also was by Salil Chowdry. with pronounced social relevance. Very nice film,...a social satire on the ways of electoral politics. Gentle portrayal by 'Audrey Hepburn of Bollywood'.
------
https://youtu.be/5a7l2UzZ654
-------
https://sites.google.com/site/decadesba ... -oh-sajnaa

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Most of us would have heard Bankim Chandra Chatterji's immortal 'Vandhe Maatharam' , song as a duet sung by Smt.MSS and Dilip Kumar Roy way back in 1940.
-------
https://youtu.be/4Ti60AXvN30
-
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -maatharam
***********************************************************************
2
Here is the same song rendered by Lata Mangeshkar -1952- yes, a film song, ANANDHA MUTT . Music Director was Hemantha Kumar Mukerji. This is a very rare record. in HM Bairavi raag.
https://youtu.be/ESqwBnpduUE
============================================

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Most of us would have heard Bankim Chandra Chatterji's immortal 'Vandhe Maatharam' , song as a duet sung by Smt.MSS and Dilip Kumar Roy way back in 1940.
-------
https://youtu.be/4Ti60AXvN30
-
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -maatharam
***********************************************************************
2
Here is the same song rendered by Lata Mangeshkar -1952- yes, a film song, ANANDHA MUTT . Music Director was Hemantha Kumar Mukerji. This is a very rare record. in HM Bairavi raag.
https://youtu.be/ESqwBnpduUE
============================================

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
'tEn vandu pAyudu kAdinilE' (it's like nectar to my ears), Bharathi sang about tamizh nADu. He also hailed his beloved bhAratha nADu in several verses. He didn't stop there. This wonderful song flowed from him in translation as : inia nIr perukkinai which I haven't heard anyone sing so far.
The nectar in the voices of both MSS and Lata singing it! One evokes the spiritual aspect of it which moistens your eyes. The other stirs you with a renewed love for the motherland with youthful fervor.

Folks,
RSR is some ReSearcheR! We do know that true research of any kind is of immense value to human kind. Otherwise, we wouldn't be communicating from distances as easily as we do now, as only elevated souls did eons ago. Yet, how dry, difficult and far-fetched some aspects of research seem to us, in our not being able to connect with them! All I can say is that I have not come this close to appreciating the two sunAda bhArata ratnAs to this extent until now :) dhanyavAd RSR :D

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

@arasi
Madam, The ennobling and inspiring theme and mesmerizing renditions , I am sure, are behind your awarding a 'pattam' to me. It is always a pleasure to share nice things with a kindred soul as admirer of Bharathy, Bankim , and MS/LATA. .. So, it is for me to thank you.
Smt.MS herself has rendered Barathy's Thamizh version in a later day collection. I am giving the link in musicians section today.

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

We saw, Bankim's immortal song, as a duet . The reverse side of that vintage record was another duet by Dilip Kumar Roy and Smt.MS, in 1940. The poem was by Dwijendralal Roy, D.K.Roy's father. This song also is dear to every Bengali as it was originally about that glorious fount of Indian Renaissance, which gave us so many great souls in literature, music (Rabindra Sangeet), painting, science , philosophy and spiritualism, social reform and of course, numerous martyrs in Independence movement. inspiring the entire country , especially the Thamizh land. The lines of the poem would fit perfectly with many places all over the South.
'Dhano dhaanya pushpa' -
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... hpa-varaan
(english transliteration, translation and Thamizh translation also are given)
There is an wmv file with slides too. as illustration of the theme,

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Aye Mere Watan Ke Logon (Original Version - 1963) | Sung by Lata Mangeshkar
-------------------------------------
https://youtu.be/DSJ1MMGi_IQ
------------------------------------
C.RAMACHANDRA
---------------------------------
"Aye Mere Watan Ke Logon" is the cult patriotic Hindi song sung by Lata Mangeshkar. It was written by Kavi Pradeep and composed by C. Ramchandra. The song was first sung on January 27, 1963, . This song was a tribute to the Indian soldiers who died during the Sino-Indian War.
Not a film song.

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
An unheard song for me! Thank you. The only song of Kavi Pradeep that I remember is chal uD jA rE panchi.

This one is brimming with national fervor. Lata's singing it makes this hymn ever so poignant.
A few lines from it:

jab ghAyal huvA HimAlay
zarA yAd karO kurbAni
shaheed huyEn hai vOh
har vIr thA bhArath vAsi...

When HimAlaya was hit
Think of their sacrifice
They are our heroes now
Each one of them, an Indian

This is not just nostalgia. Such periods in history have inspired poets always, and we respond to it readily.

The two nightingales have richly contributed to music in the field of patriotism too...

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

One of the most wonderful poems of Barathy. 'Mannum imayamalai, '- sung gloriously by Smt.MS in 1950. A 78 rpm record. music by S.V.Venkataraman. in Chenchurutti raagam-favourite of MS.
Kindly listen to the magic of MS singing 'ponnoLir bhaaratha Naadengal Naade' , how much ' music-curves' she gives in that single word 'Naade''.!
And the sweet orchestration. !--especially the short interlude between first and scond stanzas.
This is a very rare recoord. No one seems to have it now.
--
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... imayamalai
----
mannum imaya malai
engaL malaiyae
maaNilam meethathu poal
pirithilaiyae
-
in Naru Neer gangai aarengaL aarae
ingithan maaNbirku ethirethu vaerae
paN arum upaNida Nool
engaL Noolae
paar misai aethoru Nool ithu poalae
ponnoLir bharatha NadengaL Naadae
poatruvam ithai emakkillai eedae

---------------------------------
maa ratha veerar
malintha Nannaadu
maa munivoar palar,
vaazhntha ponnaadu

Naaradha gaana
Nalam thikazh Naadu
Nallana yaavaiyum
NaaduRu Naadu
pooraNa gnyaanam
polintha Nannaadu
buddhar piraan aruL
pongiya Naadu
bhaaratha Naadu
pazham peRum Naadae
paaduvam ithai
emakkillai eedae.
-----------------------------------------
The towering Himaalayan mountain is our mountain.
There is no other mountaiin compparable to it.
river gangai of The sweet and holy water,is our river
is there any other to rival its glory?
The ancient and precious upanishad is our scripture
Where is a book like it anywhere in the world?
The resplendent and golden Bharatha Nadu is ours.
We will sing its glory- none equal to us.
-----------------------------------------------------
Ours is the good land of plenty of great charriot-warriors
Ours is the golden land where great sages lived.

Ours in the good land where Naradha gaana (divine music) nectar flows
Ours is the land that seeks and adopts whatever is good.
Ours is the land where fully developed wisdom prevailed
Ours is the land where Lord Buddha's Grace overflowed

Bharatha land is ancient land.
We will sing its glory- none equal to us
================================

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Yes!
"bhArata nADu pazham peru nADE
pADuvam idai emakkillai IDE" sang Bharathi. True, there aren't any who are equal to him in singing praises about it as his very words declare here.
This disc has been played how many times! You can tell by the wear and tear. Still, our minds recall the clarity and sweetness in it as we heard her then!

Incidentally, Bharathi has sung it in bhUpAlam it seems because it's one of those verses where he specifies the rAgA.

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Lata in Dekh kabira Roya - 1955- Madan Mohan music
'meri veeNaa thum bin roye'
said to be in Ahir Bairav raag
https://youtu.be/3OE7-MgKCdg
-----------------------------
@KKishore
2. Saurashtram vs Ahir-Bhairav of HM (Usually people compare Chakravagham 16th mela of CM with Ahir Bhairav)
viewtopic.php?p=376109#p376109
Does this sound like Chakravaham ?

KKishore
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by KKishore »

Not fully sure. But I have heard comparison/jugalbandhi s of Ahir Bhairav with Chakravaham and mostly they show similarities. Instrumental music like violin,nadaswaram of chakravaham if you listen seem to show more similarities imho

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

it seems that kruthis on the sacred river Ganges are very rare in CM, except of course the famous one by Sri.MD .
rendered by Smt.MS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP7Q6RwlfBM
http://guru-guha.blogspot.com/2007/10/d ... -raga.html

=======================================
Pathithoddhaarani Gange ..by DLRoy follows
=======================================
Dwijendralal Roy , a contemporary of Rabindranath Tagore, born around 1863 (?), was a Fellow of Royal Society, and famous scientist trained in England in Agricultural science and related fields. He was also a poet. and author of numerous Bengali patriotic poems.
.
Smt.MS has chosen to render his lovely poem on River Ganges. This is from her LP on National Integration, released sometime in 1970. Saregama have placed it in public domain.

https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... ini-gangae
.
The audio clip has been given in the cited web-page along with translitration, translation in both English and Thamizh
-
This poem is more in sync with the reverence with which Ganges is held in the minds of millions of our people, lay and scholarly, over centuries.
It would be nice to have more information about the puraNic references made by DK.Roy
@nAdopAsaka ,@rajani

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Unko Yeh Shikayat Hai | Lata Mangeshkar |
Adalat
1958
MadanMohan / Lata Mangeshkar classic
----------------
https://youtu.be/g78X1OMFcb0
------------------
He has this complaint- that I do not say anything
But It is my nature that I do not say anything
-
My heart compels my tongue To speak several times
But my situation doesn't allow me to say anything
-
There were several things to say If I wanted to say
For the World's Kindness that I do not say anything
-
If I say something, The World Would Turn Into A Storm
would be A Catastrophe - hence I am keeping quite
---------
A wonderful song. Sounded like Bagesri but seems to be HM raaga malgunji , closely allied to Baagesri - and evokes a more tragic mood.

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

Thanks :) A long-lost melody for me--and Nargis, not in white. Subtle expression of any emotion was her way. As always, Latha sounds as if she is her (or whichever actress she sings for at that moment).

You are right. This rAgA sounds more melancholic than BhagESri. Reminded me of 'nain sE nain nAhi milAvO' from Jhanak jhanak pAyal bAjE. There, it sounds romantic in a wistful way, even happy, Sandhya and Gopikrishna dancing in the then beautiful Brindavan Gardens at Krishnaraja Sagar near Mysuru.

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Another melodious song in Malkunji raaga from the 1961 film
CHOTE NAWAAB. ( Ignore the lyrics- visuals and lyrics - have spoiled the effect of literally hundreds of great tunes by Lata).
Music director was Rahuldev Burman . It was his first film as independent music director. Till then, he was serving under his father Sachin Dev Burman. Lata was 31 then. Wonderful voice.
-

https://sites.google.com/view/latamange ... a-gir-aaye
--
Do visit for the gloriously lovely images of Lata as well.

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Dhasa avathaara sthothram
-by Smt.MS as a raaga maalikaa--HM
----
https://youtu.be/xwAcV9D3ajs
----------------------------
O Lord Krsna, I offer my obeisances unto You, who appear in the forms of these ten incarnations. In the form of Matsya You rescue the Vedas, and as Karma You bear the Mandara Mountain on Your back. As Varaha You lift the earth with Your tusk, and in the form of Narasimha You tear open the chest of the daitya Hiranyakasipu. In the form of Vamana You trick the daitya king Bali by asking him for only three steps of land, and then You take away the whole universe from him by expanding Your steps. As Parasurama You slay all of the wicked ksatriyas, and as Ramacandra You conquer the raksasa king Ravana. In the form of Balarama You carry a plow with which You subdue the wicked and draw toward You the River Yamuna. As Lord Buddha You show compassion toward all the living beings suffering in this world and at the end of the Kali-yuga You appear as Kalki to bewilder the mlecchas.
==================
Bhairava,Bhupali,Jaya Jayanti,Malkauns,Kedar,Patdipa,
Bihaga,Durga,Puriya Dhanasri,Vrndavani Saranga,
and HM -Bhairavi.
------------------

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

chanda re jaa re jaa re.
Film ...Ziddi
1948
Music diector - Khemchand Prakash
Lata Nangeshkar (She was 18 then)
Raaga said to be 'ChayaNat'-HM
https://youtu.be/p-7NJ1lWZAE
-------------------------------
This tune is rather unique. Though , visuals are generally distracting from the music, the scene is quite unobtrusive.
Note how the stanza meanders through the lines without repetition.
kis ke man men jaaye base ho
kis ke man men jaaye base ho
.
hamare man men agan lagaaye
hamare man men agan lagaaye
.
hamane torii yaad men baalam
.
diip jalaaye diip bujhaaye
diip jalaaye diip bujhaaye
.
phir bhii teraa man naa pighalaa
hamane kitane niir bahaaye
.
chandaa jaa re jaa re
chandaa re jaa re jaa re
=====

RSR
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Lata Mangeshkar-
Jyoti Kalash Chhalke
[From "Bhabhi Ki Chudiyan"]
1961

based on HM BhoopaaLi
(with English translation sub-titles -of lyrics)
---
https://youtu.be/XiFSuo9qY9s

arasi
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Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
You brought this beautiful song today. When I first heard it, it was a thrilling experience. The sunrise hour gained more focus--that is, I didn't take the precious hour for granted. I lingered a bit more outdoors to take in the early morning scene for a while after hearing it.
It enhanced my appreciation for classical music too. Well, not catching all the words, I was already humming it often. ChalkE I sang as jhalkE and so on. The tune stayed in you. How simply enchanting, mOhanamAna experience...

Seeing Meenakumari added to the pleasure. Seeing mother yashOdA and child Krishna as earth and the blue sky made it endearing. The serenity of the line culminating in the joy of 'gOpAl kanhaiyA...' I heard again today after many years and it still moves.. Thanks...

You had posted sajnA earlier. To me, not in the same class as this, nevertheless a notable song, yes. An exuberant Lata there...

As for chandA rE, jAre jAre--a lilting tune and Kamini Kaushal, a lively, versatile actress (reminded me of Bhanumathi in that)--though she didn't act in the movies for long, she made an impact.

KKishore
Posts: 91
Joined: 31 Aug 2021, 07:19

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by KKishore »

2 Bharat Ratnas Lata ji and Dr Bhupen Hazarika(singer/composer) have given us one more good musical song in HM Bhupali/Bhoopali i hope i.e "Dil Hoom Hoom Kare" in Rudaali movie. In this song Lata ji;s voice is very different from her young days but still it blends with the tune i think. Thinking of Mohanam/Bhupali this came to my mind, not sure if relevant here
https://youtu.be/51E50HhFfto
(It seems above duet version is artificial one as it was rendered only separately originally but below seems to be the only hindi duet originally recorded by these 2 Bharat Ratnas :https://youtu.be/l0FDrvHw_0Y (This is based on Ramayana story lyrics music by Bhupen Hazarika not sure of the Raag as it may be folk based)

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

@KKishore +1 for the second link.
The first link - lyrics -the usual filmy theme. And Lata in this thread is for her angelic early years. All the difference between Smt.MSS in 1945 and the same MSS in 1985. And the theme. ..There are asout a dozen or more Duets in films , which have been avoided here. The focus is on Lata and MSS. I think, you have a liking for HM tunes and thanks for that. and for carefully avoiding romantic filmy visuals. such as duets and dances.
-
@arasi Madam is requested to have a look at
viewtopic.php?p=376429#p376429
---
@

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Lata Mangeshkar
Music- MadanMohan

Film- Anpad

1962
-
https://youtu.be/xDLxKys4wck

Aapki Nazaron Ne Samjha,
Pyaar Ke Kabil Mujhe
Dil Ki Ai Dhadkan Thaher Ja,
Mil Gayee Manzil Mujhe
Aapki Nazron Ne Samjha

Ji Hamen Manzoor Hai,
Aapka Ye Faisla
Kah Rahi Hai Har Nazar,
Banda Paravar Shukriya
Hanske Apni Zindagi Mein,
Kar Liya Shaamil Mujhe
Aapki Nazron Ne Samjha ...

Aapki Manzil Hoon Main Meri Manzil Aap Hain
Kyon Main Toofaan Se Darun Mere Saahil Aap Hain
Koi Tufanon Se Kah De, Mil Gaya Sahil Mujhe
Aapki Nazron Ne Samjha ...
==========================
Is this in Darbari raaga ?

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Whatever rAgA it is ( jOnpuri? May be not), this song made a big impact then. No, I hadn't seen the film but the song was a winner. it was on the Binaca Geet Mala for a while.

bhaj rahI hain..........saikaDOn shahnAyiyAn--is missing here. Some words I don't recollect also seem to be here.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

இத்தனை நாள் ஆன பின்னும்-ஏழை நெஞ்சே ஏன் துயரம்? எத்தனை நீ அழுதாலும்-உத்தமர் தாம் வருவாரோ
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... nna-pinnum
தன்னுயிரை மன்னுயிறகே-தந்தவர் தாம் மாய்ந்தவரோ!
இன்னுயிரும் எமக்களித்த-ஏந்தல் அன்றோ ,காந்தி மஹான் !
(NOTE THE MUSIC INTERLUDE HERE!)

அன்பினிலே அவரிருப்பார் !-அருளினிலே விளங்கிடுவார் !
துன்பமுற்ற பேதையர்தம்-துயரினிலே திகழ்ந்திடுவார் !
சின்னச்சிறு மதலையரின்- சிரிப்பினிலே மலர்ந்திடுவார்
சின்னச்சிறு மதலையரின்- சிரிப்பினிலே மலர்ந்திடுவார்
கன்னியர்கள்,அன்னையர்தம்-கண்ணீரில் கரைந்திடுவார்
ஏழையர்க்கே இரங்கிடுவோர் -இதயங்களில் வீற்றிருப்பார் !
ஊழியர்கள் உழவோரின்-உழைப்பினிலே ஜ்வலித்திடுவார் !
இத்தனை நான் சொன்ன பின்னும்
ஏழை நெஞ்சே ஏன் துயரம் ?
-----------------------------
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... nna-pinnum
=====================================
ABSOLUTE GEM--LYRICS BY KALKI- 1949 - REQUIEM TO GANDHIJI
==========
iththanai NaaL aana pinnum
aezhai nenjae aen thuyaram
etthanai Nee azhuthaalum
uththamar thaam varuvaaroa?
--
thannuyirai mannuyirkkeae
thanthavar thaam maaynthavaro?
innuyirum emakkaLiththa
aenthalandro gaandhi mahaan!

anbinilae avar iruppar
aruLinilae viLangiduvaar
thunbamutra paethaiyar tham
thuyarile thikazhnthiduvaar

chinnanchiru mathalaiyarin
chirippinilae malarnthiduvaar

kanniyarkaL, annaiyartham
kaNNeeril kaarainthiduvaar
-
aezhaiyarkkae irangiduvor
idhyangaLil veetriruppaar

oozhiyarkaL uzhavorin
uzhaippinilae jwalithtiduvaar

itthanai Naan sonna pinnum
aezhai nenjae aen thuyaram
====================================
Even after so many days ,
why do you grieve so much,
my poor heart?
-
However much you may weep,
will that noble soul return to us ?
-
How can we say that he died
when he gave his good life
for the life of all beings
-
is he not immortal Gandhi mahaan
great soul who gave his own life for us all ?
-
wherever there is affection, he can be found there
he will be there wherever there is grace
-
he can be seen sharing the sorrow of
innocent and suffering women
-
he blossoms in the beatific smile of
endearing little babes

he dissolves in tears of maids and mothers

---
he lives in the hearts of whoever
feels for the poor

he shines in the labour of
workers and tillers
--
When i have said so much,
why are you still grieving my dear heart

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by CRama »

RSR, This song as well as its pair Manilathai vazha vaikka vanda Mahatma---- these two songs never fail to bring in tears in me even now after so many years of hearing these songs. The pathos created by the heart wrenching lyrics of Kalki and the emotional rendering of the songs of MS is an unparallel classic.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

That I haven't heard this song until now is something I can't really figure out...
The lyricist, tune smith and the singer--all come together here as one moving sentiment--all with the Mahatma in their hearts.
Sindhubhairavi at its mellowest as a result. I am happy that I could finally listen to it today :)

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

CRama at p-184
I used to think, the raagam was a special sindhubairavi but now it sounds like Darbari sung in a limited range of notes of the raagam without foraying into the characteristic high notes of the melody. Perhaps, wrong. ....Expert's guidance welcome.

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by CRama »

RSR, All these years, I have never thought about the ragam. The emotion conveyed by the sahihtyakartha and the singer is enough to bring tears. Never mind the ragam.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

CRama at p-187
Not so. !
Even if the listener does not know Thamizh ,and so misses the theme and the literary excellence of the short poem, , I think, it evokes
a sense of pathos, purely due to the raagam and miraculous rendition....- especially, the end- aen thuyaam . which gives a natural start of a few darbari tunes like 'hari thum', ' . Most likely, it is HM Bairavi which always has a tinge of darbari and HM ASAVERI. ..;engum Nirainthaayae'? I do agree that even without knowing the name of raagam, it brings tears, if we know the language. but I wonder if that is true for people who do not know the language and theme. If it does, it is purely due to the rendition. and the melody

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by CRama »

RSR, I still wonder how many people who do not know tamizh and who do not appreciate MS music, will ever try to listen to these songs.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Generally, people who love classical and light classical music, do not know the language of the lyrics and so do not know about the theme of the song. They care for the melody only. and they are right. Many of MS gems of 1940-1950 decade, all of them available only through plates, were hidden to the recent generation, because of copyright issues. Saregama has now placed most of them in public domain. AND i think, there ARE people who care to listen/

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

'vaishNava janatho' , of saint Narsi Mehta was a favourite bajan of Gandhiji. Smt MS has sung it in a few prayer meetings in the presence of Gandhiji. and as a 78 rpm record along with the RamDhun. Very likely, that the music was composed by Piano Vaidyanaathan, a mystic , scientist and music composer, himself. The song with lyrics and meaning can be found at
https://youtu.be/GJ52Wpb6c3E
and
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... va-janatho
---
It is in HM KAFI raaga

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Lata Mangeshkar sings 'VaishNava janatho'' .
Not a film song.
Said to be HM Kamaaj
https://youtu.be/kIvCtJEispY
lyrics and meaning as given in previous post

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Very rare live video clip of Smt.MS singing in Music Academy in 1955.
This is the ONLY video/audio clip of nightingale , available from the period 1930 to 1955. - perhaps the best of her music. and voice. She was 39 then.
------
Video clip of the foundation stone laying ceremony at The Music Academy Madras, 1955
https://youtu.be/BzwlJ6NnBb8
Nādabhṛṅga shares a rare video clip from an old news reel of Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru laying the Foundation Stone for The Music Academy Madras on the 5th of October, 1955. On this occasion Smt. M S Subbulakshmi performed at the vast pandal erected at The Music Academy venue. One can see a glimpse of the various great Vidwans of the time including Sri Mudikondan Venkatarama Iyer, Sri Kumbakonam Rajamanickam Pillai, Sri Chittoor Subramania Pillai, Sri Palani Subramania Pillai, Sri Flute Sanjeevi Rao and others.

The audio recording of this concert is available here: https://youtu.be/foThkDpCKpE

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Smt.MS gave two immortal records on Gandhiji, penned by KALKI and set to music by S.V.Venkataraman, in 1948 after Gandhiji left us.
These two , have great theme, wonderful lyrics, excellent music and above all most emotional, heartfelt and divine voice of rendering by the one and only MS.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... azhavaikka
-
@CRama identified the raagams as MaayaaMaaLava Gowla and KeerwaNi. (..'baalan prahaaadhan thangaL .....).
1948 78 RPM record.
lyrics and illustrations given in the above link along with the song.
This is from 'kalki' collection donated by Saregama and placed in public domain, only two years back
These were not from any concerts
-
maayaa maaLava Gowla
மாநிலத்தை வாழவைக்க-
வந்த மகாத்மா !
மாந்தர் குலம் உய்ந்திடவே
வந்த மகாத்மா !
தீனர்களின் தந்தையான
காந்தி மகாத்மா !
தீயவர்க்கும் நன்மை எண்ணும்
தெய்வ மகாத்மா !
வானுலகைத் தாமனுகிச்
சென்ற போதிலே
வாசலிலே நின்று
வரவேற்றவர் யாரோ?
வானவரும் தேவியரும்
வந்து வணங்கி
வாசமலர் தூவி
ஜய போற்றி சொன்னாரோ !
---
keerwaaNi
பாலன் பிரஹலாதன்
தங்கள் பாத மலரைப்
பணிந்து கண்ணீர் அருவி
சொரிந்து நின்றானோ ?
-
ஞாலமெல்லாம் வாழ ,
முதுகெலும்பினை ஈந்த
ஞான முனியாம் ததீசி
ஆசி சொன்னாரோ
.
முன்னொரு நாள் அன்பு நெறி
தந்தருளிய
மோன புத்தர் இமை திறந்து
முகமலர்ந்தாரோ !
.
சின்னஞ்சிறு வயதினிலே
தம்மை மணந்த
எங்கள்
அன்னையாம் கஸ்தூரிபாயும்
கரம் குவித்தாரோ!

-மாநிலத்தை வாழவைக்க
வந்த மகாத்மா!
எங்கள் மகாத்மா !
தெய்வ மகாத்மா!
-----
maaNilatthai vaazha vaikka
vantha mahaathmaa
maanthar kulam uynthidavae
vantha mahaathmaa
dheenakaLin thanthai aana
gaandhi mahaathmma
theeyavarkkum Nanmai eNNum
dheyva mahaathmaa
-
vaanulakaith thaam aNuki
chendra pothilae
vaasalilae Nindru
varavaetravar yaaro
vaanavarum dheviyarum
vanthu vaNangi
vaasa malar thoovi
jaya poatri sonnaaro
-
baalan prahalaadhan
thangal paadha malaraip
paNinthu kaNNeer aruvi
chorinthu Nindraanoa
gnyaalamellaam vaazha
muthukelumbinai eentha
gnyana muniyaam dhatheechi
aasi connaaroa
.
munnoru NaaL anbu Neri
thantharuLiya
mona buddhar imai thiranthu
mukam malarbthaaroa
.
chinnanchiru vayathinilae
thammai maNantha engaL
aNNaiyaam kasthuribaayum
karam kuvitthaaroa
----

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

Smt.MS sings a P.Sivan classic in the film SEVA'SADHAN- 1938-her first film- 1938. Wonderful lyrics in Thamizh.- Raaga Hindolam..Transliteration has been given.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... n-hindolam
----
மா ரமணன் , உமா ரமணன்

மலரடி பணி மனமே! ,தினமே !

மாற ஜனகன், குமார ஜனகன்

மலை மேல் உறைபவன் ,

பாற்கடல் அலை மேல் துயில்பவன்

ஆயிரம் பெயரால் அழைப்பினும்

ஆயிரம் உரு மாறினும் ,

உயர் தாயின் மிகு தயாபரன்

பதம் தஞ்சம் என்பவரை

அஞ்சேல் என்றாளும்

மா ரமணன்

மா ( திருமகள்)

மா ரமணன் ( விஷ்ணு)

-----------------------------------------------

உமா ரமணன் ( சிவன்)

------------------------------------------------

மாற ஜனகன் (மன்மதனை தோற்றுவித்தவன் - திருமால்

குமார ஜனகன் - முருகப் பெருமானின் தந்தை (சிவன்)

---------------------------------------------------

( கைலாய) மலைமேல் உறைபவன்

பாற்கடல் அலைமேல் துயில்பவன் ( திருமால்)

********************************************

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Thank you for bringing MSS's mA ramaNan here. I can't forget the song for several reasons: I did not hear her sing it for quite a while, but knew the song beforehand! How? I was about seven. We lived in Andhra Pradesh at that time. Among a few other tamizh magazines, we used to get Vanoli regularly. It was a detailed program guide for AIR listeners. At the very beginning of the contents, there was a notated version of a song which you could learn from the program isai payiRchi (music lessons) where they were taught on the radio regularly. It was so much fun for me to read the songs, listen and then learn them(as much fun as reading Ananda VigaDan, Kalki and kalaimagaL). hindOLam became one of my favorite rAgAs from then on. Later, when I heard MSS's record, I was listening to a song I knew already and how well she sang it! Papanasam Sivan's name too, got lodged in my memory!

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

sharing a wonderful song by Smt.MS , very fine lyrics, ( likeky to be Misra Maand...last stanza..'jo thum chaaho milan hamoaro '..
https://meera1947.blogspot.com/p/17.html
translation by @rshankar
========================================
Generally, we avoid duets in this thread but the following tune is exceptional. No visuals. Very likely to be Maand. and variations in tune between the stanzas. CRamachandra music
----
Bhool Jayen Sare Gham
Lata Mangeshkar Mohammad Rafi
Nausherwan-E-Adil
C Ramchandra
Parvez Shamsi
https://youtu.be/Yc3MWg6Pjhs
===========================

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by RSR »

sharing a wonderful song by Smt.MS , very fine lyrics, ( likeky to be Misra Maand...last stanza..'jo thum chaaho milan hamoaro '..
https://meera1947.blogspot.com/p/17.html
translation by @rshankar
========================================
Generally, we avoid duets in this thread but the following tune is exceptional. No visuals. Very likely to be Maand. and variations in tune between the stanzas. CRamachandra music
----
Bhool Jayen Sare Gham
Lata Mangeshkar Mohammad Rafi
Nausherwan-E-Adil
C Ramchandra
Parvez Shamsi
https://youtu.be/Yc3MWg6Pjhs
===========================

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Ravi's beautiful translation made up for MSS' 'blocked' video.

bhUl jAyEn sArE gham is typical CRamchandra. How the rAgA flows unimpeded! Lata and Rafi's voices add to the magic.
Thanks :)

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

Post by arasi »

RSR,
Thanks for letting me know that by clicking on the link I could still see/hear the song.
Two things that struck me here:
I haven't seen MSS in such a casual mode of dress/hair as I do here. It adds another dimension to her expression. Even more remarkable is the singing which makes me realize that besides the similarities between the two Bharath Ratnas, I see the closeness in their merits even more. Their long careers and the imprints they left on our musical landscape and on our psyche is something unique.

The camel ride on uneven terrain would have been scary and distracting--even if she were only miming the words in the shot, but she steeps herself in the lyrics so much that it turned out to be a memorable scene...

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