Musiri Subramania Iyer

Carnatic Musicians
CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Musiri Subramania Iyer

Post by CRama »

RSR wrote: 20 Nov 2021, 18:18 I am told that 'Pallavi singing' uses just one line . The standard form does not change the ragam. There is no lyrics either. The variations occur only in the pace of rendering. and differing emphasis on the different parts of the line. ---RTP incorporates Pallavi singing but we can have a very brief AaLAAP , skipping the Taanam and detailed Pallavi singing in the same raagam..
One TMKrishna is enough for carnatic music.

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Musiri Subramania Iyer

Post by CRama »

Tanam is said to be extension of raga alapana. Really tanam is very enjoyable part in this genre and is liked by many. Why it should be skipped. Tomorrow another rasika will tell neraval should be skipped. You are telling everywhere about golden period 60s-70s. Were the RTPS sung by great musicians not relished by you. Last year iin Academy concert- even within a slot of one and half hours, Sanjay and Ranjani Gayathri, K.Gayathri etc presented well designed RTPs.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Musiri Subramania Iyer

Post by RSR »

p-51 AND P-52
@CRama
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As a veteran concert-attender you know better, perhaps. By no stretch of imagination, can we just ignore the golden-decades. They were the trend-setters. ARI being born in 1890 was the senior-most. .The information that follows is for the new rasikas and may not be for you.
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There were four or five great vocalists born before 1900, They were ARI(b.1890), MVI, Chembai and Musiri. (b. 1899)..and Mudikondan Venkatarama Iyer ( 1898)
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Let us take the age 25 as the reference Then the decades from 1925 to 1940 belonged to those veterans. It also coincided with establishment of music sabhas and gramophone record era.
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The next generation was adorned by Semmangudi Srinivada Iyer,, Madurai MaNi Iyer , GNB, Aalathoor bros , These four artistes were all trained in the gurukulam system just as the ARI group ( except GNB).. All of them had a distinct style of their own. and purely classical. They were all born around 1910. And their peak by our already mentioned time age-frme was around 1940.-1955
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The same decades also saw more great vocalists , slightly lesser known but no less talented- like MMDandapani Desikar, Sathur AG Subramanyam, VVSadagopan,

Needless to say that this generation also had Smt's MSS, DKP, NCV, and Radha-Jayalakshmi.
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Also great instrumentaiists like Chowdiah, Flute Mali, Palladam Samjiva Rao, TN Rjarathnam Pillai, Karukurichi, AKC, Kraikkudi Sambasiva Iyer, Devakottai Naraayana Iengar and many great violinists.
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They defined the modern and standard Concert pattern.
It so happened that almost all the male stalwarts passed away
in the decade 1960-1970.
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This is not to denigrate the post- 1970 decades artistes but they themselves would whole-heartedly admire and acknowledge their debt to the doyens.
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Fortunately, Naadhabhrunga team is placing great many glorious concerts of the decades of 1950, 1970 in public domain with detailed information. about the kruthis rendered. Almost all of them have RTP.
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I think, Smt.DKP gave a concert in Music Academy in 1964, where she did a raga allaap and Pallavi alone skipping the Taanam.
-(1964 was the year in whuich Aalathoor were awarded SK). That concert is striking in many aspects.
( yes Sir, I can 'hear' though not very clearly due to age factor -even with aids) but all the songs stay and play in my mind exactly as heard decades back. I cant even hum but I hear them with all their finess in my mind. No exaggeration here please. I am thankful to the almighty that I am still able to immerse myself in that glory of vocal renditions. Beats totally escape my memory. -).
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We have already seen an NCV record where she did an aalaap and Pallavi in three ragas.
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Were it not for the service being done by teams like Naadabrungha and VaaK, the younger generation would have been denied the opportunity to know the norms set by the stalwarts trained in rigorous gurukula system.
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And those priceless records. of the golden decades! .
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As a matter of perspective, a concert without kruthis is unthinkable. It is actually an insult to the vak-geya-karas from Purandharadasa onwards, for whom music was a vehicle to propagate devotional and ethical values and not a mere entertainment or display of virtuosity.
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We can have a great concert without RTP but never a concert without kruthis. Even Instrumentalists have a kruthi in mind while playing.
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Now that even kutchery sets of 78 rpm are available in public domain through youtube , we can see how the above-mentioned artistes planned their concerts with predominance of kruthis of the Trinity, a formal RTP and some virutthams and devotional songs at the end. Even the light pieces at the end were of devotional content.
The manodharma aspect is best expounded in ragam elaboration. There was not much of Tani.
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A real tribute to the pre-Trinity and the Trinity will be a concert full of kruthis only with just a brief aalaap.
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There is a lot of confusion in the meaning and purpose of VarNam, Jaavali, Swara-jathi and Tillana. They are just art forms not necessarily connected with non-devotional or nominally -devotional songs of 'romantic' nature. I think all of them are written from the angle of a maiden pining for the lord !.
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Thank God, they did not write on a male pining for the Goddess! Small mercy. Best left to film music!
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The pre-Trinity and Trinity did not give us any Varnam etc even remotely connected with dance. and so-called srungara.
Varnams and swara-jathis of Shyama Satry are not in anyway , romantic.
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MD kruthi on Chithanmabaram aptly is for the Dance of the Loed.
Thyagaraja and Purandaradasa and Badrachalam never gave any such composition.
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An artiste and the rasikas must have a holistic perspective of CM
and as you yourself expressed very clearly in your Sruti ARTICLE on Smt.MS, CM is not meant for gymnastics and ego-centric display of virtuosity.
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The most comprehensive statement on Carnatic music and its aims has been given in the Music academy Presidential address given in 1968, by Smt.MS . Those of others like DKP, GNB, MMI also are available in public domain.
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These points , I have been asserting again and again over the past few years. and I do not see any reason to retrace my steps.
As a prominent critic, I wish that you too assert this perspective. -



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Last edited by RSR on 21 Nov 2021, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Musiri Subramania Iyer

Post by CRama »

I never demean the past artistes and I even in 80s, I ran from pillar to post and collected their concerts which even now I am relishing.
Importance of kritis- I am not the one to recommend curtailing kritis and exhibit only raga alapana. That is suited for HM not carnatic music.
In the past on some rare occasions, DKP or somebody would have skipped tanam. But that is not the standard.
See my review of a RKM concert in this forum a couple of days back. It was an oustanding concert with a Kedaragowla RTP.
Podhigai TV broadcast a interview of TNS a few days back where he mentioned about RTPs also.
An development should be for improvement of existing things. Not for chopping off some of the good elements in our concert. IN yesterday's RKM concert, RKM did not sing RTP. That did not affect the quality of the concert. BUt hen it is presented, give full justice to it. In the old plate record, Madurai Mani Iyer has given RTP in 7 minutes.
Hence I reacted to your post. In the guise of improvement, let us not cut short the good things. TMK does that. But let it remain with him only.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Musiri Subramania Iyer

Post by RSR »

p-54
--@CRama
Your explanation is addressed to the wrong person. .
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I am wndering why concert reviews section does not talk about the great concerts of 1955-1970 years. Why should the review be of current artistes alone? We can just imagine that those concerts were given in the present time.
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The recent uploads by Naadhabrungha, Vaak and Vidwan KS Kalidas always give time stamp. The AIR concert mentiond abve even has split the video into parts for easy downloading. Now, let us take up any such concert by (say) Aalathoor and find out how much time they allotted to the Pallavi in an RTP ( especially the SK concert ) That would give an idea of what Pallavi is and the role in RTP.
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From the time stamp, we can easily see that quite a few kruthis of the Trinity are rendered without any aalaap even. roughly running into just 4 or 5 minutes. That is as it should be. It is said by Sri.TLV, that MD kruthis by their very nature of conception , need no Aalaap atall. They are self-sufficient in themselves. The same view has been expressed and performed by Smt.Brunda too.
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Let us talk more about the past-masters of the art. The present have enough resources unlike the Kalki period. They have their own websites. It is the past that has to be retrieved and preserved for posterity.

CRama
Posts: 2939
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Musiri Subramania Iyer

Post by CRama »

No more post from my side on this subject.

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