karnATaka Shuddha sAvEri
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They are all related and are janya's of Mayamalavagowla:
Saveri is S R1 M1 P D1 S - S N3 D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
Karnataka Shuddha Saveri is S R1 M1 P D1 S - S D1 P M1 R1 S
Malahari is S R1 M1 P D1 S - S D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
Kannada Bangala is S R1 M1 G3 M1 P D1 S - S D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
I am of the opinion that the gitam "AnalEkara" was originally rendered in Karnataka Shuddha Saveri and not the Shuddha Saveri (Devakriya) that is in vogue today.
Saveri is S R1 M1 P D1 S - S N3 D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
Karnataka Shuddha Saveri is S R1 M1 P D1 S - S D1 P M1 R1 S
Malahari is S R1 M1 P D1 S - S D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
Kannada Bangala is S R1 M1 G3 M1 P D1 S - S D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
I am of the opinion that the gitam "AnalEkara" was originally rendered in Karnataka Shuddha Saveri and not the Shuddha Saveri (Devakriya) that is in vogue today.
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Arun,arunk wrote:mohan - can you elaborate on why you think so? what are the clues?mohan wrote:I am of the opinion that the gitam "AnalEkara" was originally rendered in Karnataka Shuddha Saveri and not the Shuddha Saveri (Devakriya) that is in vogue today.
thanks
Arun
Clue 1: SSP mentions this
Clue 2: According to Dr R Satyanarayana, some manuscript in Varalakshmi Academy (RS's institution) labels AnalEkara in malahari
Clue 2: (I think) It is very natural for Purandara dasa to compose geetes in mALavagouLa janyas (malahari and shuddhasAvEri)
Clue 4: Because of the name confusion, the shuddha ri da svaras could have easily become chatushruti ri da swaras, to match the mainstream 'suddha' sAvEri
Mohan, Please post if you have any more
-Ramakriya
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thanks ramakriya. Pretty solid clues.
BTW, have you noticed that in more than one case, a raga with suddha prefix today has a non-suddha swaras (as known today) ? Another example dhanyasi vs suddha-dhanyasi (?), hindoLam vs suddha-hindoLam (varamu). I thought there was atleast one more but cant recollect now.
I wonder if these are possible indicators to
* Remnants of the confusion in "medieval times" were as to what the "old, original suddha" swaras were
or
* Remnants of indicators as to what the original suddha swaras were
(i.e. old suddha ri/da were perhaps closer to today's R2, D2 and not today's R1, D1, but from rAmamatya R1, D1 became suddha)
Arun
BTW, have you noticed that in more than one case, a raga with suddha prefix today has a non-suddha swaras (as known today) ? Another example dhanyasi vs suddha-dhanyasi (?), hindoLam vs suddha-hindoLam (varamu). I thought there was atleast one more but cant recollect now.
I wonder if these are possible indicators to
* Remnants of the confusion in "medieval times" were as to what the "old, original suddha" swaras were
or
* Remnants of indicators as to what the original suddha swaras were
(i.e. old suddha ri/da were perhaps closer to today's R2, D2 and not today's R1, D1, but from rAmamatya R1, D1 became suddha)
Arun
Last edited by arunk on 20 Jun 2007, 00:19, edited 1 time in total.
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IMO, in all these cases, the shuddha prefix indicates an earlier version of the rAga, *irrespective of whether it had shuddha* svaras or not.
-Ramakriya
The pair you left out is probably vasanta & Shuddha vasanta.arunk wrote:BTW, have you noticed that in more than one case, a raga with suddha prefix today has a non-suddha swaras (as known today) ? Another example dhanyasi vs suddha-dhanyasi (?), hindoLam vs
suddha-hindoLam (varamu). I thought there was atleast one more but cant recollect now.
IMO, in all these cases, the shuddha prefix indicates an earlier version of the rAga, *irrespective of whether it had shuddha* svaras or not.
-Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 20 Jun 2007, 01:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Ramakriya has covered the reasons but the obvious one to me is that after the Sarali varisai, Janta and alankara exercises in Mayamalavagowla, the first gitams are in Malahari. Karnataka Shuddha Saveri seems to naturally flow on from Malahari.
Yes, the word Shuddha in front of a raga gives no clues to the swaras used.
Yes, the word Shuddha in front of a raga gives no clues to the swaras used.
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Doesn't sound like Kannada for me too!vk wrote:Can anyone post the lyrics in kannda (if it is in this language) and the meaning of this composition?
Anyways, the sAhithyam is:
Aanalekara Unni Poladi Sakala Shaastrapuraana
Dheenam Taala Dheenam Taala Parigathu Rere
Setu Vaaha Pariga Tamnam Jataajoota
Meaning:
Even as we watch ("aanalekara"), the water (unni") stored in a tank leaks through another outlet (pooladi"). In the same manner, my life has been wasted ("parigathu") without the awareness ("dheenam") of the ancient texts and scriptures (shastras and puraanas).
Reference: http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivk ... eetham.htm
Regards,
Kumar.
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Re: karnATaka Shuddha sAvEri
Is not Suddha Saveri the janyam of Dheera Sankarabharanan?
And also I have a feeling the language could be a dialect of South kanara spoken during the 1400s in the Tirthahalli locality. In fact even Tulu has a lot of Tamil Kannada and Telugu in it
And also I have a feeling the language could be a dialect of South kanara spoken during the 1400s in the Tirthahalli locality. In fact even Tulu has a lot of Tamil Kannada and Telugu in it