Suggestions for quiz

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 03:04

ramakriya wrote:Ramamatya was a minister in the court of aLiya rAmarAya ( 153x AD- 1565AD) -

If he was very young at this time, say 30 years, and was a miminister at the end of Ramaraya's reign, he could not be born after 1530 AD. (Lowest limit)

If he was old at the time, say 60+ years, and then the earliest DOB for Ramamatya would be around 1500 AD.

KallinAtha being his grandfather can not be more than 70-80 years older than Ramamatya. So the earliest DOB for Kallinatha is 1420 AD.

Clearly, Vidyaranya was at least 80- 100 years before Kallinatha, since we know that he was instrumental in founding Vijayanagara empire in 1336 AD.

-Ramakriya

Some more on Kallinatha.

As per SSP's vAggeyakAra charitramu, he was in the court of immaDi dEvarAya, but incorrectly assigns saka 1475 (~1553 AD) as the time his work was composed.

I think this should probably be read as 1475AD, instead of saka 1475, because dEvarAya II ruled vijayanagara between 1424 AD-1446 AD.

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 04:03

ramakriya wrote:Ramamatya was a minister in the court of aLiya rAmarAya ( 153x AD- 1565AD) -

Just to make a correction on this - Ramamatya might have been the minister both to Achyutaraya (1542 AD-1550 AD) and Ramaraua (1550 AD -1565 AD);

svaramELakalAnidhi describes one type of Veena, called Achyutaraya mELa Veena, which was a new creation of Ramamatya himself.

-Ramakriya

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 17 Jan 2007, 08:19

thanks DRS for the anantabalakrishnam track...

i looked at the lyrics.. maybe this is just a coincidence..

ananta bAlakRSNamAm ava mukunda shrI harE vanajamukhAmbuja pada sumatE dInAvana nagadhara shaurE

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Jan 2007, 10:21

Keep it going guys - this is even more interesting than the quiz!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 13:37

venkatpv wrote:thanks DRS for the anantabalakrishnam track...

i looked at the lyrics.. maybe this is just a coincidence..

ananta bAlakRSNamAm ava mukunda shrI harE vanajamukhAmbuja pada sumatE dInAvana nagadhara shaurE

Or even may not be when you look at the following kritis of muttuswAmi dIkshitar

srI shUlinIm shritapALinIm in shailadEshAkshI (sampUrNa mELa name: shUlini)
hariyuvatIm haimavatIm in dEshisimharava (sampUrNa mELa name: haimavati)

Both these kritis skip the regular rAga mudre (for the asampUrNa mELa, that is). At least, it does not look like a co-incidence to me in these kritis!

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Jan 2007, 15:33

venkatpv
Nice observation.

Moving onto cintAmani. Just to briefly recall the historical background of how SyAmA SAStri conceived this rAga. bobili kESavayya visited the tanjAvUr court and threw a challenge to the musicians in hte country for a competition. The stakes were high and bobbiligAru was a feared and respected musician. The loser would give up all titiles and become a sevant of the winner. kESavayya had never been known to lose. He was called bhUlOkacApacuTTi. As no one would come forward, the king, knowing SyAmA SAStri's prwoess in music, decreed that he would take up the challenge, SS accepted it but later had misgivings. His mind became troubled and he went to the sannidhi of bangAru kAmAkShi and spontaneously sang the cintAmani kRti "dEvi brOva samayamidE" upon which the dEvi reassured him to take up the challenge with an untroubled mind. We all know what happened subsequently (pallavi competiton).

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Jan 2007, 15:41

Although several rAgas by name cintAmaNi are mentioned in treatises, the cintAmaNi is question is sung as a a janya of 2 mELas by different schools. One is the popular version which is a janya of ShaNmukhapriya. The other, lesser known version (BMK's way of singing) is sung as a janya of rAmapriya. It is interesting that this kRti is listed in some manuscripts under the name of "padma rAga".

Although the 2 schools have strong reasons to call their versions authentic, observing the bhAva/rasa/emotion of the 2 versions makes me think the ShaNmukhapriya is likely the original. There is pathos and karuNe/dainya in this version. the rAmapriya janya has hAsya rasa in it and sounds higher in spirits. It has an element of derison in it. Now was SS being sarcastic to dEvi while singing this particular krti? The lyrics certainly do not point in this direction.

Does anybody have the alternate version (rAmapriya/ramAmanOhari janya)? please post.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 17 Jan 2007, 20:44

ramakriya,
i agree that its definitely not a coincidence in the ones you mentioned...

but the isamanohari one seems to be a bit too much of a stretch to me... if anything, the harikambhoji reference must come in one of MD's kedaragowla compositions to qualify!

in one of his reetigowla kritis, there is a reference to 'nata bhairave'... the nata is pronounced as natha not naTa... (i am not quite sure how to write it in the transliteration scheme i must confess)

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Jan 2007, 21:00

venkatpv wrote:in one of his reetigowla kritis, there is a reference to 'nata bhairave'... the nata is pronounced as natha not naTa... (i am not quite sure how to write it in the transliteration scheme i must confess)

It is shrI nIlOtpala nAyikE in narirItigowLa with D1 (not nIlOpalAmbam also in narirItigowLa, which some claim and sing to be in rItigowLa with D2). Pl. see http://www.medieval.org/music/world/car ... ayike.html. Dr. V.V. Srivatsa atleast thinks it isnt a coincidence (and uses to say dIkshitar treated narirItigowLa and rItigowLa as different) - but your point is good.

Also, I think as per katapayadi scheme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katapayadi_sankhya), the actual name is naThabhairavi: na (न)=> 0, Tha (ठ)=> 2, so naTha = 02, flipped is 20 the mela number.

Arun

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 17 Jan 2007, 21:35

Dr Srikaanth Murthy garu,
The Bobbili Kesavayya-Syama Sastri event reminds me of Hemanatha Bhagavathar-Bana Bhattar episode from Thiruvilaiyadal movie based on Madurai Thiruvilaiyadal Puranam. Is there any account of what Ambal did with Bobbili Kesavayya? Isn't he the same Kesavayya whom Thyagarajar implores for murdering ennagAnu rama bhajana to exploit his musical prowess?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:22

arunk wrote:
venkatpv wrote:in one of his reetigowla kritis, there is a reference to 'nata bhairave'... the nata is pronounced as natha not naTa... (i am not quite sure how to write it in the transliteration scheme i must confess)
It is shrI nIlOtpala nAyikE in narirItigowLa with D1 (not nIlOpalAmbam also in narirItigowLa, which some claim and sing to be in rItigowLa with D2). Pl. see http://www.medieval.org/music/world/car ... ayike.html. Dr. V.V. Srivatsa atleast thinks it isnt a coincidence (and uses to say dIkshitar treated narirItigowLa and rItigowLa as different) - but your point is good.

Also, I think as per katapayadi scheme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katapayadi_sankhya), the actual name is naThabhairavi: na (न)=> 0, Tha (ठ)=> 2, so naTha = 02, flipped is 20 the mela number.

Arun

How did I forget

dIna janArti prabhanjana rIti gouravE
dEshika pradarshita chidrUpiNi nata bhairvE!

Arun - I am not aware of any versions of nIlOtpalAmbAm with D2. AFAIK, it is srI nIlOtpalanAyikE that has two versiobs. Did you switch the names?

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:34

drshrikaanth wrote:The other, lesser known version (BMK's way of singing) is sung as a janya of rAmapriya.

Does anybody have the alternate version (rAmapriya/ramAmanOhari janya)? please post.

Does anyone apart BMK sing it in as a janya of rAmapriya?

BMK has sung it in two of his commercial releases - One recording from 1960's or 70's which I'd say is very nice - And the other which was a 1990's release ( this one has a rare kriti of dIkshitar, varadarAja in gangAtarangiNi too, among others) - which IMO falls flat compared to the earlier one.

I may have both these - But these being commercial, can these tracks be posted?

As an alternative, I can try sing this version too

, since it is for education purpose, and not necessarily for enjoyment!

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:35

I have heard a Sowmya's CD on the nIlOpalAmba krithis, where nIlOtpalAmbam is rendered with D2 rItigowLa, and SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE in (d1) narirItigowLa.

I guess you have heard the other one with D2 - implying that maybe the D2 version is claimed (by some) for both?

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:38

arunk wrote:I have heard a Sowmya's CD on the nIlOpalAmba krithis, where nIlOtpalAmbam is rendered with D2 rItigowLa, and SrI nIlOtpala nAyikE in (d1) narirItigowLa.

I guess you have heard the other one with D2 - implying that maybe the D2 version is claimed (by some) for both?

Arun

There is a classic recording of BMK singing srI nIlOtpala nAyike - After listening to this, versions with D1 don't even dare to come near me

So much for authenticity!

Jokes apart, this is a must hear version whether one likes BMK's style or not. If I am correct, it is with other gems such as sundari nI divya rUpamu and bAgayanayya.

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:52

BMK's version was the first I heard and learnt. It took me while to get used to the more popular ShaNmukhapriya janya. But, it is the latter that appears more appropriate.

rItigauLa, as I had written earlier in the thread on my compositions, these 2 rAgas differ not only in dhaivata but also in some phrase. And bhAva-wise, they are very diffferent and have a right to be treated as different rAgas. I had posted my kRtis also in nArI rItigauLa.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Jan 2007, 23:03

ramakriya wrote:Jokes apart, this is a must hear version whether one likes BMK's style or not. If I am correct, it is with other gems such as sundari nI divya rUpamu and bAgayanayya.

-Ramakriya

Here is an excellent srI nIlOtpalanAyike, in rItigouLa

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... index.html

in the lec-dem by Sri R K Srikanthan - It starts around 1 hour mark into the lecture. Pathantara- wise, it is almost the same as BMK's. Being a lec-dem, it provides more insight to various prayogas IMO.

-Ramakriya

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 18 Jan 2007, 02:42

Arun,

It is for my "collection". So i am looking for text + translation

Arun

if a scanned page is available, I can volunteer to translate the kannada text.

Regards,
Vasu

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 18 Jan 2007, 02:54

Will the next round of quiz start tonight? (Wed night?) Or is it on Thursday night?

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Jan 2007, 03:14

Yep. it shall be tonight. ABout 2 hrs from now.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Jan 2007, 05:35

The audio round is up now. Good luck. 48 hours to go from now for you to send in your answers.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Jan 2007, 05:52

drshrikaanth wrote:The audio round is up now. Good luck. 48 hours to go from now for you to send in your answers.

grahabEda 1 is too low, can't hear
Anyone with same problem

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Jan 2007, 05:58

Its fine here Suji. Amyway, i have sent you the clip with enhanced volume by email. Tell me if you received it.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Jan 2007, 06:05

Yes recieved. heading for the bus now

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 18 Jan 2007, 09:04

Drs wrote
4 c) Identify swarasthAnas. (Please specify the names of swaras as kaiSiki, kAkali etc to
avoid confusion)

Can you clarify with the question 4C). Am I expected to catch every swara note in the clipping and document it as an answer. May be for the second it is easy only 3 seconds,for the first jAmbhavAn , I had to be his

sishya... outstanding quiz.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 18 Jan 2007, 09:21

outstanding quiz.

Mukha Stuthi of the Quiz master (and evaluator) not allowed.
atleast until the exams are over.

:P

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 18 Jan 2007, 10:59

Suji Ram wrote:
drshrikaanth wrote:The audio round is up now. Good luck. 48 hours to go from now for you to send in your answers.
grahabEda 1 is too low, can't hear
Anyone with same problem

true. sorta felt the same.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Jan 2007, 14:43

Need longer clip for Alapana 3

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 18 Jan 2007, 14:59

Suji Ram wrote:Need longer clip for Alapana 3

u sure u need a longer clip? i thought all the alapanais were give away ones..

drshrikanth, is there any googly question in this lot?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Jan 2007, 15:02

I am getting close, but have some doubts...

And I am not an expert as you are...my.. with all the concerts you attend

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Jan 2007, 15:07

Rajesh
I want to know the swarasthAnas occurring in the rAga (as sung in that clip). Certainly not each swara the artiste renders. (That would be a test on keenness of listening

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 18 Jan 2007, 15:21

May I suggest we restrict discussions of the quiz to bare minimum. This makes it fair to everyone. Thanks. (Just like in a regular exam, we have to make assumptions, and answer the questions as best as we can!)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Jan 2007, 23:10

Friends Please Note

Please give ONE correct answer for each question. Do not give me a choice of alternatives. I will not accept even if one answer is right.

Also Please NUMBER your answers- give the answers against filenames. And correctly mark subdivisions a, b, c. In case you forget numbering, I will still accept if the answers are written in the order I have posted questions. Unfortunately, i will not be able to give marks if the order is changed. For e.g if in grahabheda question, you write answers for original raga and raga created by grahabhed in wrong order without specifying subdivision, I will have to reject.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Jan 2007, 02:28

DRS

The raga quiz is superb and mind-boggling. It is telling me how much I do not know in CM while I prided over these years on my ability to recognize ragas. To be able to identify a raga from a fleeting phrase requires tremendous memory (which unfortunately I don't have

I certainly do not want to guess and leave my answers to probability and hence not turning in an answer! As such I already know my score (1/20). But I do hope that after the quiz is over you will do some education as to how one could systematically prepare for 'raga recognition'.

GOOD LUCK TO THE PARTICIPANTS!
(and thanks for your untiring efforts!)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Jan 2007, 15:09

The response to this round has been tremendous and is still going strong. Entries received so far

divakar, vasya10, Sripathi_g, Mohan, sishya. srinidhi, mnsriram, lakshman, ramakriya, sridevi, coolkarni, ksrimech, ammamaha, rbharath, venkatpv, arunk, rajeshnat, Suji Ram.

Great work. Keep going guys. Other send in your entries soon. The clock stops at midnight today. I will put up the answers then.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 19 Jan 2007, 15:28

DRS
Before putting the answers in the other sticky thread Also put the scores of the first round in the same sticky thread, so that we get it almost like a quiz and not lose the context.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Jan 2007, 16:23

Rajesh
I will leave the scores in this thread as I dont want to "Psyche" people up when they see the quiz thread. This is a fun way of learning more than a competition. Final scores will of course be on that thraed.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 19 Jan 2007, 16:43

Doc, I have also jumped into the fray! Hope you have received my mail.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Jan 2007, 19:48

Srinidhi
I sent you an email. Please respond.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 19 Jan 2007, 22:12

Does anybody have the alternate version (rAmapriya/ramAmanOhari janya)? please post.
cintAmani

Do you want me to post BMKs version ?

here is one by Chittoor Subr Pillay
http://ul59.rapidshare.com/files/124121 ... tamani.mp3

Looks different because of the Lyrics in the second half .

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Jan 2007, 22:47

Coolkarni
The lyrics are different because it is a differen caraNa being sung. there are 3 caraNas. Do post the BMK version.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 19 Jan 2007, 23:44

Shri - just sent you my entry. Hope you recd it.

SangithaRasika · Post by **SangithaRasika** » 20 Jan 2007, 00:04

CML, oooops then i should not have sent in my entries at all !!! I missed out on the first one so i thougth let me put in an effort !
DRS just post the answers and leave the counting to us

and Thanks for all the efforts !!

SR

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 00:08

SRasika - don't take these quizzes as life&death competitions. It's all in fun, and we get to learn in the process. That's all.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 00:09

SangithaRasika
I dont seem to have received your entry yet. On that note, it is lovel;y to know real names of posters. But please do send in your form ID as well for me to be able to kepe tags and post here.

SangithaRasika · Post by **SangithaRasika** » 20 Jan 2007, 01:15

Jayaram, my wink should have indicated my seriousness !!

DRS, I mailed my ansers to your yahoo account ! DO I have to do any different ?

-SR

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 01:18

SR
If thats how you sign, yes I got it. You, see there is no way I can know you re SangithaRasika unless you specify in your email. BTW did you send from your Yahoo account? You are registered ubder your gmail account in the forum, hence my doubt.

SangithaRasika · Post by **SangithaRasika** » 20 Jan 2007, 01:24

DRS, Sorry for the confusion ! I should have put in my name signin name, it didnt occur to me

Also, I have a question about the film song. Can you just respond to that ?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 01:44

3 more entries received- Vijay, SangithaRasika and Jayaram. Is that it?
Ranjani, I havent received your entry yet?

ranjani · Post by **ranjani** » 20 Jan 2007, 01:56

Dr Shrikanth, I just sentyou my anssers. hope you recd. them.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 03:50

coolkarni wrote:Do you want me to post BMKs version ?

please, please do

if you have a concert version.