ramana maharishi

[rajeshnat]

Would like to know more about ramana maharishi as a vaggeyakkara . Attn - RaviSri you can write more about maharishi's contribution in this thread. Perhaps along with you shivadasan can also write more . In one of our rasikas meet shivadasan came all the way from thiruvannamalai and IIRC he is devotee of ramanar, he can also write more

[RaviSri]

rajeshnat, the Maharshi was not a vaggeyakara in the strict sense of the term.

A spontaneous 'Arunachala Aksharamanamalai', a garland of 108 verses, which is his best known work was composed in the early 20th century. This was when he was going on pradakshina round the hill with a few devotees. People sing it in a traditional Sankarabharanam tune without much ornamentation. Then came the Arunachala Ashtakam (8 verses), Navamanimalai (9 verses), all the above in Tamil, and the Arunachala Pancharatnam in Sanskrit (5 verses), at the request of Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni. Mostly tunes for these evolved over years of singing by devotees. The Pancharatnam was translated into Tamil later by the Maharshi himself.

After the Maharshi settled down at the foothill in 1922 near his mother's Samadhi, he composed, mostly at the request of his devotees, various works like Upadesa Undiyar in Tamil, which was later translated as Upadesa Saram by the Maharshi himself into Sanskrit (starting with the words 'karturAgnayA prApyatE phalam....') at the request of Ganapati Muni, into Telugu and Malayalam (starting with the words 'karma phalathinE tannu varunnadum kartAvu tannuDE agna tannAl........'). The Tamil version is in the Tamil meter 'undippara' and the Sanskrit version in the sweet suprathiSTTA meter. The Malayalam version has been composed in the kiLi pATTu style. Then we have the Appalam song and the Anma Vidya keertanam.

Most of his other works are in the veNbA format, composed as they are in Tamil. One of these, the Bhagavad Gita Saram was translated into Malayalam by Maharshi himself and this is sung by the Malayali devotees in the kiLi pATTu format.

There are no pure Carnatic tunes in these. In 1980, Prof.K.Swaminathan presented a programme on AIR on the occasion of the Maharshi's birth centenary celebrations. The Arunachala Pancharatnam in Sanskrit was tuned and sung by MS for that programme. There are any number of composers who have composed in praise of the Maharshi in CM ragas and these are being sung by various devotees.

[Pasupathy]

Thanks, RaviSri, for the info. Very nice ...

[cmlover]

Very informative post RaviSri...
Thanks

[rshankar]

RaviSri - are the works of the maharishi available (in audio format) anywhere?

[rajeshnat]

RaviSri - are the works of the maharishi available (in audio format) anywhere?

Ravi
I googled some time back this site , you can check this
http://www.ramanamusic.com/home.htm

[RaviSri]

This is the link from which you can download the parayana weekday wise as also the pdf of the Tamil script and the English transliterations of the texts. These recordings have been done at the ashram itself and they are authentic renditions as they should be.

http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/resour ... -parayana/

[uday_shankar]

I wonder if Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi belongs in the vaggeyakara thread at all. Over the last 15 odd years, I have pored over extensive Bhagavan-related literature, English translations and some original Tamil, by Muruganar, Sadhu Arunachala, Devaraja Mudaliar and many others and I cannot recall seeing a single mention of anything related to Carnatic music. All other vaggeyakaras I suppose had some connection with music, even if they did not "tune" their songs (BTW, does it makes any sense at all to call somebody a vaggeyakara who did not conceive of the dhaatu and maatu together ?!).

The only two instances in which I can recall Shri Ramana using remotely musical terms are when he used the word "pallavi" in relation his mother's interactions with a certain Ramanathan Brahmachari who used to wash dishes at Skandashram. Then there's his reference to the "Shruti" as an analog to the "I" thought that forms the background to all other thoughts that come and go.

There is no evidence that Shri Ramana ever expressed appreciation of a musical performance either live or on the radio, whereas there is an account of his showing explicit appreciation of a humorous radio program, laughing and shaking his head in extreme mirth. Also, there are accounts of his expressing great appreciation of the paarayana and the performance of the Sri Chakra Puja. I haven't come across any record anywhere of Bhagavan ever having uttered or written the name of any raga or pann or taala.

Bhagavan discouraged the popular notion that the trinity "sang their way to moksha" or some such. In the case of the great vaggeyakaras, he said self-realization preceded their acts of composition and hence their compositions have "eternal life". The following passage has been scanned from "Moments Remembered" by Shri V. Ganesan (Sri Ramanashram 1990, 1994):

[rajeshnat]

Uday/RaviSri
I was thinking that few verses (not krithis)especially those sung as "Arunachala Aksharamanamalai" by few musicians as written by ramana maharishi . I was always thinking that the mettu was composed by some one else other than ramana maharishi. With your clarifications we can certainly for sure treat him as Not a vaggeyakkara . I was putting ramanamaharishi in vaggeyakkara thread as some form of logical placeholder where we can collate all the posts together, this is the closest topic head I can think of.

On a side note , there are quite a few or rather very few krithis that are sung in praise of ramana maharishi and/or Lord shiva of thiruvannamalai. There is this ramana kendra hall close to PS Senior School where at times a trust conducts concerts . I can put those song lists in here (I cannot recollect now), have to search few catalogs.

Sorry for my vaggeyakkarizing ramana maharishi.

[Pasupathy]

There is at least one instance, in which he composed 5 charaNam-s for a song in the same tune
as one of G K Bharathi's song, "ayyE meththak kadinam".
See
http://vsa-writes.blogspot.ca/2012/12/b ... _5587.html

[Shivadasan]

Rajeshnat wanted to know about Sri Ramana Maharishi, whether he was a vaggeyakara. I have some knowledge about Maharishi and music and may not be as much as Ravisri knows.
He was a great poet , but not a vaggeyakara. Tunes were set by others. His first composition was the Arunachala Akshara Manamalai which was composed during a girivalam. Maharishi himself has said that the composition came out of him on its own without any effort on his part. They were immediately noted down by his disciples. It would not be inappropriate to assume that they must have also come out with the tune, which is a simple one, something similar to what they would have been chanting in the ashram.

His poetry has the ability to beautifully lend itself to musical composition. This fact would be evident if one hears the Arunchala Sthuthi Panchakam sung by Sri G.S.Mani. It is used as the background for the VCD produced by Sri Ramanashram on girivalam of Arunachala hill.

Maharishi was interested only in guiding the devotees in realizing the Self. All worldly matters, including music and fine arts, would be a distraction to the discipline of Vichara Marga . I would not say he was not uninterested in music, but he had to set an example to his devotees by not showing much interest in music. The fact that he used the concept of Adhara Srtuti to explain spirituality does indicate that he was a keen observer of carnatic music. Possibly, If he had only shown some interest in music there would have been plenty of music festivals in the ashram and the devotees might have got very much involved in it neglecting their own sadhana.

The mention about Kameshwari Ammal is interesting. There are two other instances which I have come to know which show that he enjoyed good classical music. Smt.Lalitha Venkatraman , eminent musician used to play veena before him for hours together and Maharishi used to show appreciation. Peacocks would also dance while veena was being played. After the playing of the veena it appears that some peacocks would come and peck at the strings !
Sri. Subramanya Iyer, father of Sri Raghu (HMV) was a veena player and he visited Ramanashram frequently and every time Maharishi would ask him to play “Ksheera Sagara Sayana” in Devagandhari ragam, which he apparently enjoyed.

Many of his disciples were good composers. Smt.Mahalakshmi Suryanandan has composed hundreds of songs on Ramana which have been published in the form of books in several parts. Sri. Sadhu om a sanyasi disciple has composed hundreds of songs on Maharishi as well as his philosophy. He composed mostly after hearing a tune. His composition set to Jana Gana Mana tune is fantastic. There is one excellent composer K.V.Subramanian , a resident of Ramanashram, who has composed songs on the pattern of Muthuswami Dikshitar. Very few know about his talents. I was stunned by his composition on Ramana Mahrishi. Not many people know about him because he shuns publicity.

[rajeshnat]

Maharishi was interested only in guiding the devotees in realizing the Self. All worldly matters, including music and fine arts, would be a distraction to the discipline of Vichara Marga . I would not say he was not uninterested in music, but he had to set an example to his devotees by not showing much interest in music.
...
“Ksheera Sagara Sayana” in Sahana ragam.

Shivadasan sir
That relation between music and spirituality is very much resonating within me.
THe krithi you mentioned is in devagandhari.
If you have time , please share more about maharishi.

[Shivadasan]

The raga had been wrongly mention in my earlier post and I regret it very much and have since corrected it. It should have been verified by me before posting , because of my having been out of touch with CM for the past several decades.

[RaviSri]

Maharishi was interested only in guiding the devotees in realizing the Self. All worldly matters, including music and fine arts, would be a distraction to the discipline of Vichara Marga

Exactly. But he was not totally against music. He realised that people possessed different tastes, talents and each individual had his/her own tendencies. Some had a taste for the arts, some for literature, poetry, some for work etc. Though his universal teaching was vichara mArga (Self-enquiry), his guidance was personal for each and every devotee considering their background, individual capabilities etc. An example:.

Witrh Smt.Kameswari, the veena player, the answer was as is given under post #8 but in the case of musician Dilip Kumar Roy the answer was totally different. Roy was living at Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry. Slowly, he was drawn to the Maharshi because the latter was always accessible and one could freely converse with him. Dilip Kumar Roy once, after singing a song, asked Bhagavan: 'Bhagavan, I am not able to understand your teaching of Self-enquiry. I am not able to practise it. I know of nothing else than my music. Can I take music as my spiritual sadhana?' Bhagavan smiled at him, nodded and said, 'Yes'.

If someone takes up music or any other art as a spiritual sadhana without any other motive, either commercial or for becoming popular, then Bhagavan approves of it. Similarly with many other modes of practice like work. The kitchen staff at the ashram were all personally guided by Bhagavan in their spiritual quest, through their work like cutting vegetables, seasoning, preparing idlis etc. They had to closely follow his instructions and they would benefit. It was not just the satisfaction that the result of their work brought, but the satisfaction of having served devotees with proper food as also the spiritual benefit of listening to the guru, the one pointedness arising out of the concentration and attention given to that work. With music, if one sang/played with dedication to the music, sang for one's own edification, that itself will make us progress in our spiritual path. And Bhagavan was/is always there to guide. This has been/is my personal experience.

[uday_shankar]

All worldly matters

No sir, this gives the impression that Bhagavan opposed "worldly" activities. Quite to the contrary the he seems to have encouraged everyone to stick to their worldly dharma, grhastha or otherwise, and actively discouraged outward "renunciation". The inward renunciation of Bhagavan consists of carrying on with one's duties outwardly as before but concurrently, seriously seek to lose the "kartritva buddhi", i.e., the sense of "doership". This can come by surrender to Bhagavan, atma-vichara, etc...

without any other motive, either commercial or for becoming popular, then Bhagavan approves of it.

No sir, I don't recall reading Bhagavan impying anything negative about "commercial" or "popular". Bhagavan never opposed any worldly activity (including I presume performing classical arts for money) he only seriously discouraged the notion that one is the "karta" of that activity. Perhaps this is where the classical arts, including Carnatic music, could be hard obstacles because Bhagavan discouraged vanity of any kind, including intellectualism and classical music can often be vain, intellectual and self-conscious. Of all the vanities, intellectual vanity is said to be the hardest to get rid of. It appears even somebody as great as Kaavyakantha Ganapathi Muni was not immune to it and had to come to Bhagavan to rid himself of it.

[Shivadasan]

Sri Seshadri Swamigal once tried to find out what Maharishi was thinking. He could not, and said “I wonder what is in his mind” and left. Sri Ramana Mahrishi has always remained an enigma. He could not be understood by any one. Perhaps only persons like Poonjaji could understand him. If that is the case how can we lay persons pass an opinion about him ? I agree that I too cannot, but would try to place some information to help the readers understanding him at least a little .

According to the recorded material available, he helped everyone who approached him to evolve from their present spiritual status. He never thrust vichara marga on any one as the best spiritual method. He never encouraged the rituals of Gurudom and Discipleship. He would not even allow anyone to touch his feet. (In some rare cases he did.) On analysis it appears that there were several grades of disciples and his teaching to them was different to each one. Since only conversations have been recorded, whatever was said by him was applicable to that person only and in that circumstance. If we feel that all his sayings are universally applicable we would be entirely wrong, because a lot of contradictions would be found existing between one statement of his and another.

The disciples of the topmost cadre did not have the need to have any conversations with him at all. Everything was conveyed by a simple looks. Poonjaji, Laksmana swamy and others are in this category. For people like, Annamalai swamy, Chadwick, Muruganar and some others, he took an interest in their lifestyles and guided them consistently. For people like Ganapathi Muni, Kapali Sastrigal and other intellectuals , he gave some information and cleared their doubts. Some fortunate souls like mother Azhagammal, his classmates like Rangan he came down to the mundane level and guided them throughout. For many other house holder devotees he encouraged them to continue in family life and helped then though his miracles to overcome hurdles in samsara and continue to do their sadhana.

There is one thing very important that we should take note of. He never laid down his vichara marga as the best way for everyone. He never talked about unless some one asked him his advice. When a person talked to him he immediately understood his frame of mind as to whether he had come to him for confirmation of his own method or seeking a change in his method. Once, a person deeply involved in mantra sadhana started praising it before Bhagwan. He immediately joined the visiting devotee in an enthusiastic manner and told him very interesting and advanced features of mantra sadhana. The devotee went away very satisfied. But an ashramite was astonished how Maharishi could extol the virtues of mantra when he had conclusively said that vichara marga was the best. When confronted, Maharishi said that there was no point in thrusting vichara marga on that poor fellow because he would then neither progress in mantra sadhana nor in the vichara marga !

In case of Dilip Kumar Roy also it was the same case. But in the case Kameshwari Ammal it appears that he knew that she was very keen on self realization and so gave that reply. In the case of Ganapaathi Muni he helped him a lot even with his miraculous powers to enable him to compose some of the great works. But when he knew that Ganapati Muni preferred Sri Vidya over vichara marga he never interfered with his decision to leave. He even commented “Where on earth can we get such a great personality !”

Unfortunately the words of Uday “he seems to have encouraged everyone to stick to their worldly dharma, grhastha or otherwise, and actively discouraged outward renunciation.” appears to be incorrect. There is at least one instance I know of. He actively supported Muruganar when he left his wife and children in the lurch and surrendered to Bhagawan. He only tried to help his wife to accept the situation. There may be other cases too.
My sentence “All worldly matters, including music and fine arts, would be a distraction to the discipline of Vichara Marga ” has been written after ascertaining the opinions of those who practised the viichara marga. Its real meaning can be understood correctly only by a person who has himself made efforts to control the mind and reached a stage where he can identify the reason why a thought had emerged. It can be deduced from the words of saints and sages that when a person reaches a stage of total mental silence, the appearance of any thought would be very unwelcome. Music is a form of thought. This invalidates the entire comment Uday has made about Ravisri’s post.

We should thank Udai for posting a lovely quote,. “Of all the vanities, intellectual vanity is said to be the hardest to get rid of.” It appears that Udai himself had also fallen into this trap unwittingly.

[rajeshnat]

My sentence “All worldly matters, including music and fine arts, would be a distraction to the discipline of Vichara Marga ” has been written after ascertaining the opinions of those who practised the viichara marga. Its real meaning can be understood correctly only by a person who has himself made efforts to control the mind and reached a stage where he can identify the reason why a thought had emerged. It can be deduced from the words of saints and sages that when a person reaches a stage of total mental silence, the appearance of any thought would be very unwelcome. Music is a form of thought. This invalidates the entire comment Uday has made about Ravisri’s post.

shivadasan sir
Nice counter post sir, there is real balance in your post . When you say Music is a form of thought, and that is kind of distraction for spirituality is kind of deep within me . I am perhaps wondering or thinking loud that this assessment may be applicable only for rasikas (recipient of music) .For very very very few musicians/vaggeyakkaras who are practitioners the music maynot be a distraction for spirituality and may take them towards the path of athma vicharanA .

[uday_shankar]

It appears that Udai himself had also fallen into this trap unwittingly.

Thanks Shivadasan sir...that's good feedback for but probably better shared privately

There is at least one instance I know of.

Indeed, Muruganar's case is well-known and perhaps there are others. Still, the exceptions do not disprove the general pattern. I'm still of the opinion that by far, the great majority of seekers were urged not to leave their current homes, jobs, etc.... I could scan more pages but it would be a waste of visual space.

Music is a form of thought.

I argue that it need not be. Music can be a mere professional Karma which can be discharged while practising atma-vichara, like all other professionals. Paghat Mani Iyer was a great example of a musician who had a stricty karmic approach to his music (i don't know if he practised atma vichara though ). He disliked talking about music, never indulged in any loose or small talk or gossip. He was a disciplined grihastha, earning a living playing music. That's it.

If atma-vichara is open only to external renunciates, then there's nothing to talk about here . Case closed. The vast majority of seekers are automatically excluded. On the other hand, the world is held in balance by karma yogis doing their various duties. Ramashram itself is an example of a world in Karmic balance. Without Chinna Swami's able guidance and administration of ashram affairs, Bhagavan himself might have not been so easily accessible to us. Bhagavan rarely questioned Chinna Swamy's decisions. I would like to believe, like we all like to believe something about Bhagavan, that his guidance is available equally to all.

[Shivadasan]

Uday wrote, “I'm still of the opinion that by far, the great majority of seekers were urged not to leave their current homes, jobs, etc....”

My understanding about Maharishi and advocating renunciation is like this. He knew what exactly was in the mind of the person who asks questions about taking sanyasa. People who are seriously determined to take sanyasa never ask anyone about it. They simply act. The people who ask are those great majority of seekers who have deep attachment to the family but want to run away from his troubled circumstances and put the blame on Maharishi. He knew that such people were misfits to sanyasa and therefore emphasized staying in grihasthashrama. There could have been another aspect also . He knew the karma pattern of every seeker and recommended only if they are destined for sanyasa. There was one devotee, I forget his name, who had left everything and was staying with Bhagwan. He somehow had a deep desire that he should live the life of a snayasin. Maharishi said it was not necessary . But the devotee was insistent and placed sanyasa robes before Maharishi in the morning and took it away in the afternoon and started wearing it. He did not take food in the ashram but went to the city for begging for his bhiksha. After a few days he found it so hard to continue the life of a sanyasin that he threw away the ochre robes and came back to his white cloths !

If we accept the fact that Maharishi knew everything about everyone and that each and every advice of his advice is applicable only to that person concerned who received the advice, we can have a better appreciation of his teachings. As I had mentioned earlier it is very very difficult to tie him down to a set of ideas or philosophy. He was one with the Ultimate and reacted to each individual according to his requirements. He had nothing to preach to the general public except “Summa Iru” and “Find who you are”. If I am wrong please correct me.

There need not be any argument about music being a form of thought. Maharishi has many times explained that the whole world exists only because of thoughts. And, music is but a small part of it. A careful reading of Maharishi’s basic works would help one to understand this point of view.

Uday wrote , “If atma-vichara is open only to external renunciates, then there's nothing to talk about here . Case closed.” ---

I do not remember to have made this type of statement. Atma Vichara is meant for every one. But very few take it because it calls for a lot of sacrifices. Most people believe very much in rituals and mantras and do not take Maharishi’s advice seriously. I have just now cited a case how he discouraged external renunciation. Maharishi explains that external renunciation is meaningless without inner renunciation. Many of the householder devotees of Bhagwan had attained Self Realization without wearing any ochre robe.

Uday wrote, “Bhagavan rarely questioned Chinna Swamy's decisions.”

Information available is quite contrary. He never interfered with the management that is all. There are cases where he took Chinna Swamy to task for doing certain things. Chinna Swamy sometimes over rode Maharishi’s advice, but Maharishi never bothered himself to correct him again. Chinna swamy was so mortally afraid of Maharishi that he mostly avoided his presence. But, before outsiders, Maharishi supported him strongly.

Udai wrote “On the other hand, the world is held in balance by karma yogis doing their various duties”.

Maharishi’s views were different. He had clearly indicated that the very existence of a Gnani itself transforms so many things in the world that there was no need for him to be physically active in doing good to others. This was how he replied a Gandhian worker who blamed him for being idle and not doing anything for the vast suffering humanity.

Uday wrote, “I would like to believe, like we all like to believe something about Bhagavan, that his guidance is available equally to all.”

He was one of those rare saints who was always available for the devotees at whatever time of the day or night (in spite of hurdles placed by the ashram management). His guidance was (and is now also) available to all without any differentiation.

Uday, I am sorry if I had hurt you in any way. The way a difference of opinion is presented can also hurt others.

[uday_shankar]

Shivadasan sir, I am not hurt just confused

and actively discouraged outward "renunciation". The inward renunciation of Bhagavan consists of carrying on with one's duties outwardly as before but concurrently, seriously seek to lose the "kartritva buddhi", i.e., the sense of "doership". This can come by surrender to Bhagavan, atma-vichara, etc...

Unfortunately the words of Uday “he seems to have encouraged everyone to stick to their worldly dharma, grhastha or otherwise, and actively discouraged outward renunciation.” appears to be incorrect. There is at least one instance I know of...

(This is a classic "gotcha" in American...ignoring the spirit and countering the letter)

If atma-vichara is open only to external renunciates, then there's nothing to talk about here . Case closed.

I have just now cited a case how he discouraged external renunciation. Maharishi explains that external renunciation is meaningless without inner renunciation. Many of the householder devotees of Bhagwan had attained Self Realization without wearing any ochre robe.

I don't wish to belabor this any further...I have a much more real need for Bhagavan that far transcends any desire to participate in this discussion. My apologies for any offence caused to anybody.

[cmlover]

An interesting link
http://www.dinamalar.com/news_detail.asp?id=792853
(sorry it is in Tamil)

[venkatakailasam]

'E'-SWARA-01-Arunachala Aksharamanamalai-part I.flv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6qfW560RLA

Part II..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bKWVJc4WHo

part III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMyVXa9d2d0

[venkatakailasam]

From: More Doubts and 100 More Answers
Edited and Compiled by Shri A. R. Natarajan.)

Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi Answers:
On Meditation

1. I am a beginner in meditation. I pray to Bhagavan to guide me.
You exhort us to go on enquiring " Who am 'I' ".
May I know where this lead me ?

B: It is not mere asking; you must go into the meaning of it.
Many meditate on certain centres in the body till they merge in them,
but sooner or later they will have to enquire into their own nature,
which is unavoidable.Then why not straight away concenterte on yourself
till you menge in its source.

2. Yes, for twenty years I have been concentrating on certain chakaras
and have been seeing things and hearing sounds,
but I got nowhere nearer the Truth. Now shall I go on asking
" Who am 'I' " as soon as a thought arises in my mind?

B: Quite so. So long as you are not disturbed by outside thoughts,
dwell on its meaning.The aim is to reach the root of the 'I' sense.

3. Meditation is possible only with contorl of mind,
which can be achieved only though meditation .
Is it not a vicious circle?

B: They are interdependent: in fact meditation includes mind control,
the subtle watchfulness against intruding thoughts.
In the beginning efforts for control are greater than for actual meditation,
but in due course, meditation wins and becomes effortless.

4. Your Grace is needed for it.

B: Practice is necessary, there is Grace.


Request you to Join

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ramanacentre/

[Shivadasan]

When I post a statement and if the responses indicate that the statement had not been understood in the light it should be, then I try to explain in greater detail. None of my posts in spiritual forums have been challenged so far and if challenged they had the courtesy to correct their understanding or “agreed to disagree” after my reply.
I need to point out for the benefit of the readers that Maharishi never “actively” discouraged renunciation. The correct language expressing this idea would have been that Maharishi never encouraged external renunciation. Every spiritual aspirant in South India thinks that as a householder he gets restricted in his efforts to meditate and that living as a sanyasi would be able to give him undisturbed time to meditate. This is a false belief and Maharishi advised those who thought of sanyasa that it was the mind that mattered and if the mind is attached to the worldly matters even external sanyasa would not help. So he advised them not to think about sanyasa and concentrate on sadhana.
If anyone interprets my statements to mean that atma-vichara is open only to external renunciates, it is unfortunate. I have not subscribed to this view anywhere.
Members are very active and contributing a lot for the music lovers. Philosophy is a subject which is dull and incomprehensible. It is natural that the members are not interested in this type of stuff. I think I should not bother the members with my abstruse notes and disturb their peace of mind.

[uday_shankar]

I found the following record of a conversation on 13th Feb 1946 AM, in "Day by Day with Bhagavan" from the diary of A Devaraja Mudaliar, published by Sri Ramanashram:

Mr. Balaram said, “He does bhajan with great spirit and enthusiasm. We should have it one day here.” G. said, “Oh, yes. I can do even now. No fear, no shyness. So I can sing away. Can we get some tinkling beads (“kajjai”) for my ankles, and some accompaniment?” Bhagavan also said, “He must have some sruti like harmonium, some accompaniment like mridangam or ganjira and some cymbals (jalra).” Then the talk drifted to Bhagavan and his party going round the hill in those days. Balaram asked if G. used to do these bhajans while resting on the way or during walking. Bhagavan replied, “Oh, he would do his bhajan while walking. He would jump from one side of the road to another. He was so full of life and enthusiasm.” G. said, “I was much younger then. But I can do it even now.” Discussing where and when we should arrange for such a bhajan by G. we found out that he would require a big space himself for moving about singing and that it would be better to arrange it in the dining hall.

This is the only instance I have come across so far of a record of Bhagavan saying something, anything, pertaining to an actual musical performance. There is no record of his having displayed or expressed any opinion/reaction to Shri Musiri Subramania Iyer's widely acclaimed concert at Ramanashram on Sept 1st 1946, a day that marked the 50th anniversary of Bhagavan's epoch making arrival at Arunachala.

[Pasupathy]

Appalam Ittup pAru - Sri Ramana Maharishi

by Abishek Raghuram

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhIVMEev-ac

[mahavishnu]

Great find. Thanks, Prof. Pasupathy!

[vgovindan]

For the lyrics, please refer to - http://aaththigam.blogspot.com/2009/03/ ... st_28.html
However, notwithstanding great talents of the singer, the purport of the lyrics has been simply trivialized. This is one example of how not to sing tattva bodhana."bhAvam enna vilai?"

[cmlover]

AhA! Thanks VGV!

[arasi]

pAvam, bhAvam
bhAvam oru pAvamA?

[rshankar]

However, notwithstanding great talents of the singer, the purport of the lyrics has been simply trivialized.

Sri VGV, on the other hand, I applaud the very young artist who has taken the trouble to not only familiarize himself with this composition, but to then tune it and present it (very melodiously, if I may add). For the most part, the vast bunch of us (rasikas of CM) are not aware of verses and philosophies such as these, and it takes one such as him to bring it to our attention - for the most part, we are captivated by the music and the musicality of the composition, followed very distantly by the lyrics and their import. To Sri Abhishek's credit, he has initiated a discussion about these verses pregnant with philosophy, which is much more than can be said about many other artists - many of whom are much older than he is. I'm sure as the young man matures (in age and worldly experience) his prodigious talent will begin to exude spiritual intensity as well.

[arasi]

Ravi,
Without getting personal about this artiste or any other, I want to say this.
RamaNA's philosophical song might make more of an impact if it is set to one rAgA or just a solid few which are a bit slow moving and emotive. Add to this the image of old world women sitting in a circle, making appaLam and combining the activity with daiva chintai (thoughts about God). A melange of many tunes may conjure up in some minds rolling pins flying off the boards! AppaLam making is a rhythmic activity, not a roller derby.

There is also the distraction for the audience--of any singer who gets into a rapid singing mode--taking them away from listening carefully to the verses.

With your rich experience in helping folks understand the subtleties of the meaning of songs, you know so well that to convey the meaning of such songs is not an easy thing to do, especially when the singing is not slow and unimpeded. An impressive response can be elicited for the feats in singing here, but such songs need more--a slow and pondering pace for instance.

Having said that, Abhishek has to be appreciated for bringing unknown and brand new songs to the concert platform.

[cmlover]

arasi:
I too was thinking on similar lines.
What raga do you have in mnd ?

[arasi]

CML,
I had something like sahAnA and nAda nAmakriyA in mind, and I note that it has been sung in the latter originally, after going back a bit in the thread to find the clip to listen to it again. And, what do I find? The jujAvanthi pallavi actually is good in carrying the content! In its repetitions specially (being pallavi line).

I also find that it doesn't sound as fast as I had thought. So, what is it? Too many rAgAs, before you get a feel for the meaning of the words.

sArangA and kamAs also sounded alright this time. So, what was it again which was distracting? Too many rAgAs. Two rAgAs would have sufficed.

And, here's something from my experience. As much as I'm interested in the words of a composition, it takes a while to get it all in the first hearing. Add to it slurring on the part of a singer or his getting carried away with the gymnastics of imaginative musical embellishment.

Which brings to mind the way we were taught to sing bhArathi's viNNum maNNum thaniyALum engaL vEdai Sakthi ninadaruLE in sahAnA. No interesting change of rAgAS there, but how the words got lodged in our hearts!

So, where the lyrics need to be understood (slowly) but to their full intent, a rAgamAlikA of many rAgAs dosn't help much, I think. A romantic piece for instance, say about KrishnA, filled with action, merits a mixture of many rAgAs, in my view...

[vasanthakokilam]

My own hypothesis on one aspect of what works is that the complexity of the melody needs to go to the background and lyrics needs to be projected to the front. That is stating the obvious of course, but this does not mean that the melody needs to be simple. What it should have is a simple and attractive veneer. One aspect of music that can provide different veneers to the same melody is the rhythm/laya, the general 'solkattu' on which the song is built. Two immediate examples of good music receding to the background in such a fashion while projecting the lyrics to the foreground are: Chinnajiru kiLiyE and kurai onrum Illai .

[arasi]

VK,
Yes, 'music receding to the background' is what it is!

Your bringing up chinnanjiRu kiLiyE makes me feel more sure about how a romantic song can take as many rAgAs as one can think of!

Going back to the song, see how RamaNA says it himself: SanthamAm kuZhaviyAl, samamAna palagaiyil (with a tranquil rolling pin on an even board).

[mahavishnu]

I applaud the very young artist who has taken the trouble to not only familiarize himself with this composition, but to then tune it and present it (very melodiously, if I may add). For the most part, the vast bunch of us (rasikas of CM) are not aware of verses and philosophies such as these, and it takes one such as him to bring it to our attention - for the most part, we are captivated by the music and the musicality of the composition, followed very distantly by the lyrics and their import.

I am with Ravi on this one. Well said.

I find bhAvam in his presentation. The bhAvam that the artiste intended. I do not see any way in which the lyrics or their philosophical import compromised in this rendition. This is his artistic interpretation and as Ravi says I applaud him for bringing these verses to our attention.

"bhAvam enna vilai?"

The price of bhAvam = the cost of one's own high handedness while condescending to have a better grip on Sri Ramana's philosophy. Oh, the irony!

Questioning the tuning might be a matter of taste and interpretation. But please do not question another person's sincerity. We deserve better than that from the "doyens" of this forum. There are many ways to sing (of) tattva bOdhana, from sufi verses to Gregorian chants to buddhist hymns. And many of them are personal ways of finding unison with things greater than us. There is beauty in everything. From appalam making to roller derbies.

I think we have collectively norikkified the painstakingly itta appalam.

[arasi]

Ramesh,

and
Isn't appaLam norukku-fying (crushing) a happy event in some of our weddings at a ceremony called nalangu? A happy hour of singing, jesting and joking around the newly weds after a solemn marriage ceremony? So, no harm done

It's a good sign that even at a young age, young musicians like Abhishek are seeking philosophical verses to sing. I still feel that fewer ragAs would have been better for a song like this.
The song as an appaLam session description alone? More rAgAs, the merrier, no doubt.

[cmlover]

I like the sahAnA/nAdanAmakriya combination for this philosophical piece.
That brings in a dreamy background where one is not overpowered by the raga but the lyric sinks in.
Minimal body actions (konaShTai) also is needed. We may close the eyes and meld with the meaning!
If it was AppaLa kacchEri then the start may be in a commanding aTANA! Multiple bright ragas like
KalyANi,SankarAbharaNam will be nice with elaboration but the subtle meanng of the lyrics masked. The third charaNam can be in kEdAra gowLai!
The mridangist can have a field day

[arasi]

Heard the clip again. "Did I (the fool) rush in where angels fear to tread?", I wondered. I did miss the bhAvam the first time (subjective? or, did I get carried away a bit?). Yes, the bhAvam is there, I see, and I missed it earlier. My feeling still is that a lesser number of rAgAs would have been more effective.

I do appreciate Abhishek for bringing this outwardly simple but in its content a difficult song, to share with his listeners.

[RaviSri]

arasi wrote:

I had something like sahAnA and nAda nAmakriyA in mind, and I note that it has been sung in the latter originally, after going back a bit in the thread to find the clip to listen to it again.

If you are referring to the link that I had given in my post, then the raga is not nAdanAmakriyA but hindOLam, which is how they sing at the ashram even now. The recording has both our voices in the male segments apart from a couple of other males.

[arasi]

RaviSri,
I wish I can track where I heard the nAda nAmkriyA version as I was googling!
No, I hadn't listened to the link you had given, until now. Even here, I'm not able to discern the rAgam as hindOLam--may be because in group singing where some participants aren't (and don't need to be) singers. I hear more of maNirangu in it! May be a mental block on my part at present in discerning a rAgA! However, it sounds calming to my ears.

[Rsachi]

Arasi,
It was me:
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... am#p245899

[arasi]

Thanks, folks, but my mind is still addled with where I drew the nAda nAmakriyA from

[Rsachi]

nAdanAma kriyA - the act of imagining a rAga name.
na adAnAm akriyA - the act of not resolving the addled brain's issue of receiving a name that was not given.
nAd-anAma kriyA - the task of dealing with a nameless sound.
/:)
All your choice, madam!

[vs_manjunath]

"The Power of Presence " by David Godman..Vols I II & III are just excellent books on Ramana Maharshi.
Also an audio track By DKJ with Lalgudi & PMI abt Ramana Songs is nice .Kalyani & Bhairavi are just superb & top class.