Report on Suguna Varadachari's Lecdem on Neraval Singing

[bilahari]

Smt. Suguna Vardachari gave a fine lecdem on neraval singing at the Academy yesterday (25th). Some brief points I have noted:

SV said that the word "neraval" may have its roots in the tamizh word "neravardu" meaning to flatten (samappaDuttuvadu) or equalise. I'm not quite sure how this is connected to the musical exercise. She mentioned that it is important fill pauses in the sAhitya with raga phrases to bring out rAga bhAvam. She made an important point that the meaning of the neraval line was not considered when choosing a neraval line in the past, but it is important these days to take up a line that has meaningful content.

She mentioned that muDippu swaras (swaras leading to the eDuppu) should be either high or low. In pallavis, the arudhi is particularly important, as is the kArvai after the arudhi. She mentioned that singing a word one beat after the arudhi (?) (oNNu viTTu pADardu) is for beauty. She mentioned how in lines cluttered with words, each syllable usually only has one extended swara in first speed, but is usually sung with two swaras in second speed.

She made a particularly enlightening point that neraval singing mirrors raga alapanais in several ways - the usage of kArvais and tonal modulations are similar. However, in sama kAla neraval, she said syllables should be sung as individual swaras like in kalpanaswara singing, and should not be arrhythmic like in raga alapanais. I was not clear here - is samakAla neraval second speed? MEl kAla neraval is similar to second speed swara singing, she said. She also noted that accentuation is very important in both swara and neraval singing - for instance, the M and P are emphasised in singing patterns like MPDN - PDNS. To add up to 8, she said the patterns can be split in any manner - 3 and 5, or 5 and 3, or 4 and 4, etc.

She clarified, importantly, that there is no necessity for syllables to be taken at their native position in the tala cycle each time. It is OK to push syllables back. She repeatedly emphasised that aesthetics take utmost importance - if something sounds nice, it is OK to do it (to an extent). However, she said that it is unwise to extensively drag some syllables and then cram the remaining syllables in a few beats in a hurry to arrive at the eDuppu (which must always be maintained). She demonstrated this and indeed, it sounded funny and the mami next to me commented, "AmAm - inda mAdiri pADinAlum nallA illai kEkartukku". I appreciate how SV demonstrated the right AND wrong ways of singing neraval and left nothing to suspect imagination.

In 1.5 iDa krithis, the tattu (clap) sAhityam must maintain its position each time or it will be nearly impossible to arrive at the eDuppu correctly.

In krithis, she mentioned how the import of the sAhitya is important, and that the content almost invites a certain kind of melody, which must be grasped by the artiste in singing neraval. She demonstrated this with teliyalEru rAma. However, she emphasised that pallavi singing is more intellectual and technical.

I had leave as she was demonstrating TRS's 3 kaLai pallavi. Things were a bit dry at this stage. Others may fill in the rest and correct me as you see fit. She mentioned frequently she was only explaining the neraval according to her own understanding. Similarly, my report on the proceedings are only a reflection of my own - possibly incorrect - understanding of her presentation.

It was a very good session.

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Bilahari: Good report!! I know it is very difficult to put in words the nuances of music--be it Western or Indian--leaves lot to imagination--a little bit of singing or playing an instrument helps--Did you learn music?

YOU have better things to do at this juncture than answer silly enquiries like these!!
Look forward to your review of TMK's on Jan 1st--the first in the season I am told!!!


Now get back to work!!!

[Nick H]

Most interesting to read your review. Even I feel that I was able to take something from your understanding, and even though it probably comes translated too! Hope we will meet tomorrow

[srikant1987]

I know it is very difficult to put in words the nuances of music--be it Western or Indian--leaves lot to imagination--a little bit of singing or playing an instrument helps--Did you learn music?

YOU have better things to do at this juncture than answer silly enquiries like these!!

Well, so far from Madras (even though on leave) I will do this for him. He learns the violin. He began some time in 2008, can you believe it?

Look forward to your review of TMK's on Jan 1st--the first in the season I am told!!!

I think he's leaving before that concert. Besides, he might've been skipping it even if he was in Madras during it.

[bilahari]

Why, thank you for taking the trouble, Srikant!

Yes, Sri MKR. I have been learning the violin since 2007. I play purely for leisure - it is a good way to learn the nuances of the art. You may have noticed my soft spot for the instrument and those who play it.

Er, I certainly will not be attending TMK's concert. I won't say any more for fear of turning this into yet another TMK thread!

Indeed, Nick - this is a translated reflection of my understanding of Suguna mami's understanding of neraval!

[vasanthakokilam]

[quote]she was demonstrating TRS's 3 kaLai pallavi[quote]

Is this another name for the trisra nadai pallavi or something different?

[bilahari]

I was a bit confused by this - it didn't seem like it was tiSra naDai either.

[vasanthakokilam]

In terms of possibilities, one can have the outer beats to be in any kaLai ( 1, 2, 3,4,5 etc. ) and then each such kaLai beat can have naDai variations ( trisram, chathusram, kandam, misram etc.) maNakkAl had done precisely that with 5 outer beats. I was chided by someone stating that kaLai can only be 1, 2, 4, 8 etc. and not 3, 5, 7, 9. I see vidwans doing misra nadai pallavis where they show 7 sub-kriyas for each beat of the thala. I sort of reconciled such things as a 1 kaLai misra naDai. I was curious if Smt. Suguna Varadachari mentioned anything about such do's and don'ts, especially since she seems to have no problem with 3 kaLai.

[bilahari]

OK, I see where you are coming from. I do remember that she used two claps for each finger, so I suppose the tiSra naDai of ta-kita would fit, but I somehow remember a more equal spacing (I'm digging REALLY deep into my memory here). Others who were present or who know may be better able to resolve this. We were running out of time at this point in the lecdem so SV was merely mentioning these other possibilities and moving on. She definitely didn't mention the do-s and don't-s.

If a pallavi were in tiSra naDai, why not just call it x tala y nadai? My impression of kaLai is that it has to be even beats...

[sr_iyer]

VK: Yes, we can build up a sort of equivalence model by considering the following. I had posted this in sangeetham long back but am rewriting the matter since I lost the post. I was not in this lec-dem and hence this is a generic post (and sorry for its length)

1. Consider caturas'ra naDai in any tALa. We can easily relate to what 1 kaLai, 2 kaLai and 4 kaLai are. Let us designate these as C1, C2 and C4. (Nomenclatural aside: K1 K2 and K4 would denote 1 kaLai 2 kaLai and 4 kaLai in khaNDa naDai). Needless to say, increasing kaLai from 1 to 2 to 4 geometrically lengthens the absolute-time-duration of the tALa cycle. The number of “inner-counts” per kriyA in C1 is 4 (a "fast" takadhimi) and progresses to 8 and16 per kriyA in C2 and C4 respectively. (Just to associate - these inner-counts in fast tempo are referred to as mAtrA as per current colloquial parlace though I know and respect that this would be taken to be incorrect due to the akshara-mAtra theoretical definitions, and hence only use the term "inner-count" in paras below).


2. It is true that some consider that the number of kaLai-s can only progress geometrically i. e. as 1-kaLai, 2-kaLai, 4-kaLai, 8-kaLai etc. It is also true that in practice, there are examples of magnifying each kriyA by replicating the beat in odd numbers such as 3, 5 etc (scaling up the inner-counts per kriyA) and calling that 3 kaLai, 5 kaLai etc. This is done to maintain the number of inner-counts per kaLai division as an even number, as will be shown further below.

3. The most common way of reckoning tALa for a naDai pallavi (the colloquial way to refer to a non-caturas'ra naDai pallavi ) is to show a cApu for each of the kriyAs or outer-beats of the tALa.

3a. E. g. a khaNDa naDai caturas'ra tripuTa (i. e. khaNDa naDai Adi) is easily reckoned as Adi tALa in which each of the kriyAs is a khaNDa cApu. As per common practice, each khaNDa cApu has 10 inner-counts in the 'fast' tempo. These inner counts align as 4+6 to the khaNDa cApu divisions of each kriyA.

4. Let us say we want to step-up the speed (or shorten the duration) of the tALa-Avartana by a factor of 2. With reference to example #3a, this would be equivalent to 5 inner-counts or 'fast' takatakiTa per kriyA. There are no khaNDa cApu like divisions of kriyA any more; only the inner-count of fast takatakiTa per kriyA. It is comparitively difficult to maintain tALa and render music thusly, except in trivial cases where the music proceeds only in terms of five inner-counts. This is "equivalent" to our 1 kaLai since the speed of reckoning the tALa is fastest in 1 kaLai (vis-a-vis 2 kaLai and 4 kaLai). We will designate this as K1. (khaNDa naDai - 1 kaLai). You can see examples of this when musicians perform multi-stage rendering of “naDai”-pallavis using progressive speeds of tALa reckoning. There are nice examples of Sri Alathur Srinivasa Iyer or Sri Vijay Siva doing this.

5. Having baselined this 1 kaLai in a naDai pallavi (ref example K1 in para #4 above), we now designate the method reckoning described in para #3 and #3a as “equivalent” to two kaLai. To instantiate, para #3a would be “equivalent” to 2 kaLai khaNDa naDai Adi or K2-Adi. This is because the total number of inner-counts per kriyA is the same as K2-Adi. Purely for modeling purposes, note that for a true K2 Adi or a 2-kaLai-khaNDa-naDai-Adi, the kriyA needs to be split exactly into 2 kaLai divisions, each with five inner-counts or fast-takatakiTa. Hence, para #3a is "equivalent" to K2-Adi in terms of total number of inner beats per kriyA -- each kriyA of the tALa is reckoned in terms of khaNDa cApu for practical ease and to explore more in the realm of music.

6. If we now want to step-down the speed (or lengthen the duration) of the tALa-Avartana by a factor of 2. With reference to example #3a, this would be equivalent to 20 inner-counts per kriyA.

6a. Theoretically, this should be reckoned as 4 kaLai with each kaLai division having 5 (or, in other words, takatakiTa) inner-counts.

6b. Practically, the above example is reckoned as a “5 kaLai” with each kaLai division having 4 (or, in other words, takadhimi) inner-counts. Again, this is for practical ease and to explore more in the realm of music, so that each kaLai division has even number of "inner-counts"

6c. This method of 6b is followed for the slow versions of “naDai”pallavis instead of 6a – 6a was brought in for theoretical and modeling purposes alone.

7. To generalize, a k-kaLai pallavi in cases where k is not one of 1, 2, 4, 8 etc, is brought in for ease of reckoning tALa in slow-renditions of pallavis (to explore more in the realm of music), so that each kaLai beat/division now has even number of "inner-counts" --- and is theoretically “equivalent to” a k-naDai-m-kaLai pallavi where m is one of 1, 2, 4, 8 etc, where each kaLai division within the m-kaLais is theroretically not constrained to have even number of "inner-counts". The association methods in order to determine ‘m’ above have been outlined in paras #3, 4, 5 and 6 above.

Furthermore, typically, when pallavi expositions starting with the mode in 6b is taken up, it progresses to 3a and then to 4 in multi-stage rendering of “naDai”-pallavis which use progressive speeds of tALa reckoning.

[sr_iyer]

Bilahari, thanks for the report. You write:

SV said that the word "neraval" may have its roots in the tamizh word "neravardu" meaning to flatten (samappaDuttuvadu) or equalise. I'm not quite sure how this is connected to the musical exercise

niraval/niravaradu also has a connotation of spreading out. We may note/interpret that we spread out the music/syllables in different ways in niraval.

PS: Sri TMT was of the strict opinion (and a great practitioner of the opinion) that the mapping of sAhitya syllables to their "native" positions in tALa cycle as per the composition, should not be disturbed during niraval. This is just fyi and needless to say, I like to listen to both this strict style as well as the style in which there is some flexibility in re-distribution of syllables within aesthetic limits.

[vasanthakokilam]

Ah...Excellent sr_iyer. Great write up. I think I understand now. Let me read it again and also I will let it sink in. I may get back to you with some follow up questions.. Thanks very much..

[vasanthakokilam]

I think I still get it after letting it sink in.. Here are a few observations and questions.

First, seeking a clarification: When you wrote "each kaLai division has even number of "inner-counts" " you meant to write "each kaLai division has power-of-2 number of "inner-counts" ", right? Not sure if it is a nit-pick or not, but I wanted to make sure.

Let me rephrase my understanding of what you wrote (for pratiloma ) using time intervals instead of counts, so you can verify if I got it right.

Corollary: The theoretical inner beat interval is a constant in this model. Let us call it TT. It is like an external metronome reference that does not change at all in any of these manipulations.

Theoretically:

K1 = 1 kriya, with 5 TT interval, total duration of the beat 1 * 5 * TT = 5TT
K2 = 2 kriyas, each kriya 5TT interval, total duration of the beat 2 * 5 * TT = 10TT
K4 = 4 kriyas, each kriya 5TT interval, total duration of the beat 4 * 5 * TT = 20TT
K8 = 8 kriyas, each kriya 5TT interval, total duration of the beat 8 * 5 * TT = 40TT

Practically:

K1, 1 kriya per beat each kriya takes 5 TT
K2, 2 Kriyas per beat 4TT + 6TT = 10TT
K4, 5 kriyas per beat, each kriya 4TT = 20TT
K8, 5 kriyas per beat, each kriya 8TT = 40TT ( or 10 kriyas each with 4TT, I guess it does not matter much )

So in this model, on the theoretical side, kaLai is in essence a tool to geometrically extend the tala beat duration ( and hence the tala avarthana duration ) and naDai is how we split the thus arrived beat duration in groups of ( 3,4,5,7 etc. ), that is, of the geometrical multiple of TT ( TT, 2TT, 4TT, 8TT etc. ).

That is my rephrase of what you stated. See if I got that right.

Now, one question, stated three different ways!!:

1) What happens in anuloma, especially with non 2,4,8 type of speed changes, keeping beat duration constant?
2) Is what is normally called 'Thisram singing' a special case of anuloma?
3) For example, having chosen a theoretical 4 kaLai 5 naDai pallavi and executing it practically as 5 kaLai, is it possible to do thisram anuloma? Is this "simply!!" a case of taking that 4TT interval and dividing that by 3 so the new internal division is 4TT/3?

[sr_iyer]

(Oops, lost my earlier draft response!)

VK, thanks for your observations.

Since kriyA has its common connotation as the (outer) beat – please read my earlier post with this connotation -- let us denote kaLai-sub-beat as KSB and use it instead.

I saw a small typo in your theoretical K8. Anyway, I have rephrased your matter/observations as follows.

Theoretically:

K1 = 1 kriya, with 5 TT interval, total duration of the beat 1 * 5 * TT = 5TT
K2 = 2 KSB, each KSB 5TT interval, total duration of the beat 2 * 5 * TT = 10TT
K4 = 4 KSB, each KSB 5TT interval, total duration of the beat 4 * 5 * TT = 20TT
K8 = 8 KSB, each KSB 5TT interval, total duration of the beat 8 * 5 * TT = 40TT

Practically:

- K1, 1 kriya per beat each kriya takes 5 TT
- A khaNDa-cApu per beat is used as an equivalent to K2, each beat comprising of duration 4TT + 6TT = 10TT
- Theoretical K4 is reckoned practically as C5, 5 KSB per beat, total duration of the beat 5*4*TT = 20 TT
- Theoretical K8 can be hypothetically (since I have not seen this in actual practice; have only come across rendition of 8 kaLai for caturas'ra naDai) reckoned as C10, 10 KSB per beat, total duration of the beat 10*4*TT = 40 TT

Yes, you are right about the power-of-two clarification. In fact, I first wrote it that way in a local draft and then changed it to ‘even’. (Note that I had removed pratilOma reference for some reasons quite soon after my posting, but you perhaps are referring to a local copy of my pre-revised post – this is just FYI please)

You are right when you say "So in this model, on the theoretical side, kaLai is in essence a tool to geometrically extend the tala beat duration ....... (...8TT etc. )"

With the KSB defined above, I would modify this to "So in this model, on the theoretical side, kaLai is in essence a tool to geometrically extend the tala beat duration ( and hence the tala avarthana duration ) and naDai is how we split each KSB into 3,4,5,7 etc."

On your “one question, stated three different ways”:

Since I have seen the term anulOma used only for dyadic geometric progressivity of musical speed without changing tALa reckoning, we can instead use the phrase “multi-speed-rendition keeping reckoned tALa constant” to cover the generic case you have based the question(s) on. Essentially, what you have stated in #2 and #3 under your question(s) is correct. I would rephrase #2 to say that tis’ram singing (as well as that “caturas’ra tis’ram” we discussed in another thread a while ago) is a part of multi-speed-rendition of pallavi keeping reckoned tALa constant. What you have stated in #3 is correct but there is a practical caveat when the tis’ram is performed eDuppu-to-eDuppu (as opposed to arudi-to-arudi) AND the eDuppu happens to be on some fractional points with respect to KSB, which I will explain more in my next post as per need.

[vasanthakokilam]

Thanks sr_iyer for the clarifications. Understood. You are a very good teacher with great clarity in explaining things with the right amount of attention to details. And you also take care of not overloading the commonly understood meanings of words. I got a lot out of this thread. Your point about theoretical vs practical and their correspondence made all the difference to me in reconciling many different ideas, some wrong, I had in my head.

Thanks for spotting the typo in my post. I fixed it now to avoid any confusion to other readers. Thanks.

When I was writing my question(s), the prior “caturas’ra tis’ram” discussion and model did flash through my mind!! I am glad you mentioned it as well, that gives me the confidence my understanding is in the right track.

Please write about the eDuppu-to-eDuppu practical caveat.

Couple of questions just for academic purposes and completeness...

1) Do you endorse my corollary "that TT is a constant theoretical inner beat interval like an external metronome reference that does not change at all in any of these manipulations."

2) You wrote "naDai is how we split each KSB into 3,4,5,7 etc". I understand that. Still operating in theoretical realm, another way to look at this is "naDai is how we split the interval (Number of KSB*TT) into 3,4,5,7 etc". The reason for my thinking along these lines is to get a good handle on whether the kaLai in the theoretical realm is purely a mathematical device devoid of any musical significance or not. If there is no musical significance, then my way of thinking "(Number of KSB*TT) into 3,4,5,7" puts the musical significance strictly on naDai only and keeps KSB just as a mathematical device. This just eliminates one aspect thus affording some simplicity for semantic purposes. Another advantage is, the transformation and equivalence to practical terms looks more natural if the entire beat duration is divided by the naDai count. Let us use TKSB for theoretical KSB and PKSB for practical KSB. Instatiating for K8 ( K =5, 8 = 2 power 3, 3 and 5 being the important numerals out of this )
(2 power 3 TKSB * TT )/5 gets transformed to (3-1) * 5 PKSB each with 4 * TT intervals.

Thirdly, this also naturally corresponds with how the "“multi-speed-rendition keeping reckoned tALa constant” is done in the practical realm. Here we take the entire beat duration and split it differently as opposed to splitting each PKSB.

But if kaLai in theoretical realm does have musical significance then we do not want to do anything to reduce its significance in the model. I also realize that "musical significance in the theoretical realm" itself may not make much sense. But hope I managed to convey my thoughts to some understandable extent.

3) In any case, in the practical realm, does PKSB have any musical significance or it is only for tala reckoning?

4) I assume naDai ( and the thala beat interval and avarthana duration) is the predominant musically/rhythmically significant thing in practical terms as well.

5) In all this discussion, we have not talked about thala angAs. We had discussed previously about the arudhi point being musically significant. What is your take on the musical and rhythmical significance of the rest of the angA boundaries? ( I agree it is a bit tangential to the current model but this angA aspect always bothers me in terms of how that is the first thing that is talked about in describing thala and at the same time how trivial significance it seems to get in actual musical practice )

[sr_iyer]

VK: Thanks for your kind comments. Your corollary in #1 of your post is correct in the context of the observations made in your post -- in other words, TT was used as an atomic clock to calibrate kriyA (outer beat) duration on an absolute time-scale.

In a more generic sense, having chosen a kaLai (and not changing it), it is the outer beat duration or kriyA duration which is kept invariant, even as we change naDais. Of course, the premise here is that the time interval spanned by one tALa Avarta does not change (hence we said we have to fix the kaLai)

You may also note that for musical purposes in a changed naDai, TT is no longer the musical-least-count used for calibration of musical material being rendered. E. g. in a simple tis'ra naDai effected in 1 kaLai, the least-count or perceived-pulsation is changed from TT to (4TT/3). Of course, for theoretical purposes we could conceive of the invariant kriyA duration on an absolute time-scale as either 4TT or 3*(4TT/3).

On #2: Yes, the end result is to have “the entire beat duration divided by the naDai count”. However, for at least some cases, the way it is done practically (or at least the way I approach it), especially in case for slowest variants of naDai variation in case of large kaLai denomitations such as 4-kaLai or even 2-kaLai, is to mentally calibrate the speed by dividing each KSB into naDai and then subsampling the induced naDai-intervals-in-KSB (or in other words dyadic/power-of-two grouping of the induced naDai-intervals-in-KSB) to get the aforementioned result. This grouping or subsampling is done by giving the right kArvais upon the induced naDai-intervals-in-KSB. E. g. – to perform a kIzh-kAla tis’ram (or even slower -- yes tis'ram speeds can also be dyadically organized within themselves in multispeed-renditions) in 4-kaLai or 2-kaLai, divide each KSB into three units and then group these induced units into four or two (say, respectively for 4-kaLai or 2-kaLai), and use these grouped units as the least count to form the musical material upon which tis’ram is performed (since that musical material itself may have various distribution of kArvais etc). Needless to say this division and grouping should be done on the fly and perhaps becomes a subconscious process at times, conscious at others...

Thus the KSB is an important implementation tool conducive to greater precision on such occasions, and hence is more than just a representation/nomenclature device. Pratically, if each KSB is 1 second and a 4-kaLai makes each outer beat 4 seconds, and we want to perform a kIzh-kAla tis’ram, we would rather split the 1s KSB into 3 and group these by kArvais as mentioned earlier, since an accurate calibration of 1.3333 s or beyond (say 4/3, 8/3 etc) in wilderness (even if the 1.3333 s is not treated as an absolute quantity, but as a non-integral multiple relative to the KSB) is difficult. Yes the 1.3333 s itself can be induced by dividing 4 s by three - but managing a 1s interval division is much easier. On such occasions, I feel that the mind divides manageable time-intervals and then accumulates in terms of integral multiples of the induced division on such occasions. To adapt an analogy offered by a vidvAn in a different context (which in itself was more objectively straightforward and not in this context of KSB) , it is like folding a paper along say its length, into three folds and then determination or marking off positions such as 2/3 within the paper, or even positions beyond the paper in terms of integral multiples of the induced folds. KSB is akin to this paper (length), on some special occasions of naDai variation (and perhaps not required on all occasions).


ADDED VIA EDIT-OPTION:

Let us use TKSB for theoretical KSB and PKSB for practical KSB. Instatiating for K8 ( K =5, 8 = 2 power 3, 3 and 5 being the important numerals out of this )
(2 power 3 TKSB * TT )/5 gets transformed to (3-1) * 5 PKSB each with 4 * TT intervals.

Absolutely! Well put...

Thirdly, this also naturally corresponds with how the "“multi-speed-rendition keeping reckoned tALa constant” is done in the practical realm. Here we take the entire beat duration and split it differently as opposed to splitting each PKSB. But if kaLai in theoretical realm does have musical significance then we do not want to do anything to reduce its significance in the model.
3) In any case, in the practical realm, does PKSB have any musical significance or it is only for tala reckoning?

Please go through above paras to see practical applications of PKSB. Reference question 3 quoted above, as explained PKSB can aid in shaping and fitting musical material esp for some naDai related speed variations . If your question is whether syllables of sAhitya are guaranteed to align with every PKSB, it is hard to generalize - or rather, the general answer would be 'no'.

I will go through the remaining part of your post and respond in my next. (Not sure if some posts of this thread need to be re-organized elsewhere)

[srikant1987]

This is what I understand from naDai and kaLai. In 1-kaLai, each kriya typically has 3 "fast" swaras in tishranaDai, 4 fast swaras in caturashranaDai, 5 in khaNDanaDai, 7 in mishranaDai and 9 in sankIrNanaDai.

In x-kaLai there will (correspondingly) be 3x, 4x, 5x, 7x and 9x swaras.

Ideally, the number of kriyas shown should not differ based on naDai OR kaLai. Thus, sankIrNanaDai, 4-kaLai Adi should also have only 8 kriyas. However, it is customary to hit x times for x-kaLai in the caturashranaDai -- even somewhat finicky vidwans would allow that when the not-exactly-allowed kriyas are made more "softly" than the really necessary ones.

With non-catushranaDai, people do pretty much anything they're comfortable with. For khaNDanaDai and mishranaDai, they often borrow from the way khaNDacApu and mishracApu are shown. For tishranaDai, especially 2-kaLai, they hit during the first and third swaras.

For example, shankari shankuru will be something like (the notation here must be somewhat simplified)

sa da ri | sa pa ma | da pa pa | ; da sa ||

sn da ; |

People would tap at the beginnings of sa the da. If they followed what is typical for 2-kaLai catushra Adi by merely changing the naDai, they should be showing their second kriya (or first mini/soft-kriya) at the kArvai of the da.

NOTE: shankari shankuru is a tishranaDai, 2-kaLai Adi composition according to me. An example for "just" tishra Adi or 1-kaLai tishra Adi would be "brahmamokkaTE".

---
I find kriyas easier to grasp and the tala easier to follow if it's rendered either the way the "finnicky" vidwans appreciate or the way they allow. But I find that most percussion artists prefer it the way they allow (maybe even with "hard" kriyas everywhere).

[sr_iyer]

Shrikant, I agree with your observations - I am trying to extend them to relate in context of my earlier posts starting post #10 in this thread.

You write:
"NOTE: shankari shankuru is a tishranaDai, 2-kaLai Adi composition according to me."

Yes, this is in lines with what we discussed. However, here is a subtle difference. In 2 kaLai, theroretically both kaLais would be equal in duration with a fast 3 units takiTa (what I have referred to as inner-count). Practically, in s'ankari s'amkuru, the reckoned tis'ra-cApu-beats are aligned to 2+4 inner-counts. Hence, I would say that s'ankari s'ankuru is EQUIVALENT to a 2 kaLai since the kriyA duration (6 fast units) or the outer beat interval is equal what you would get in the theoretical case. Your thought process in comparing this with brahmamokaTE is exactly in line with my earlier post. Now, what do we do if we want a 4 kaLai tis'ranaDai on the same lines? Theoretically, it would be 4 equal kaLais of equal duration of fast 3s i.e . takiTa. Practically, some vidvans transform this to a space of 3 equal kaLais of fast 4s i. e. takadhimi. This is used in pallavi singing by some.

[srikant1987]

As per common practice, each khaNDa cApu has 10 inner-counts in the 'fast' tempo. These inner counts align as 4+6 to the khaNDa cApu divisions of each kriyA.

To actually use the cApu annoys me.

Because ideally a normal (1-kaLai) khanDanaDai should have only 5 kriyas, where as the khaNDacApu has 10 kriyas.

To me, 8 khaNDacApus shown with open palm, little-finger, ring-finger, middle-finger, open palm, inverted open palm, open palm and inverted open palm would comprise a 2-kaLai khaNDa Adi, with weird kriyas.

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Sorry, you posted before me, so maybe this isn't relevant.

sr_iyer, you're right when you say that a 3-kaLai catushra pallavi can be viewed as a 4-kaLai tishra pallavi. However, we won't be able to find a 2-4-8- equivalent to a odd-kaLai in odd-naDai.

[sr_iyer]

khanDanaDai should have only 5 kriyas, where as the khaNDacApu has 10 kriyas.

Again, a small nomenclatural aspect -- Each beat (or more specifically, outer-beat) is a kriyA Within these outer beats, either a fast 5 inner-count, or a khanDa cApu with 10-inner-counts can be counted - hence, you are intending to mean 5 and 10 respective inner-counts in your statement above. (Colloquially this inner-beat is called mAtra, but theoretical texts have a different definition for mAtra and akshara, and more correctly use akshara for inner-beat -- because of this unfortunate ambiguity, I am not using the terms)

(Aside: kriyA is literally -- "an act", taken to mean an act of reckoning the outer-beat. Inner-beats/counts would not necessarily manifest in a tangible act of reckoning).

However, we won't be able to find a 2-4-8- equivalent to a odd-kaLai in odd-naDai.

There are examples of pallavis in 2 kaLai where each kaLai-sub-beat has a tis'ra naDai or takiTa. Having said that, I agree with the spirit of your statement quoted above, and hence have said it is "theroretical" especially when kaLai>2. For 2 kaLai, as I mentioned above, there are practical instantiations of a 2 kaLai tis'ra naDai pallavi (of our theroretical space). I can provide some examples in a subsequent post.


Your observation on 3 kaLai caturas'ra naDai pallavi is right, and in line with what we have been discussing.

You might have observed that the same pallavi is sometimes taken up in different disparate logical segments. As an example, segment 1 could have the pallavi slowest, tALa long drawn in say 3 kaLai, caturas'ra naDai Adi; segment 2 has the pallavi in medium tempo, and tALa reckoned in a shorter form viz Adi tALa with each kriyA shown as tis'ra cApu (similar to s'ankari s'amkuru) and segment 3 has the pallavi in the fast tempo, and tALa reckoned as Adi 1 kaLai tis'ra naDai (3 inner-counts or takiTa in fast tempo per kriyA).

The intent in such a multi-segment presentation is to show a tis'ra naDai pallavi (as it manifests in the 1 kaLai fastest tempo segment 3 described above), also slowed down progressively to half tempo and quarter tempo for segment 2 and segment 1 respectively. While the fast tempo or 1 kaLai is in tis'ra naDai explicitly, the half tempo and quarter tempo (wrt to the 1 kaLai) can be conceived of having a "design intent" of tis'ra naDai macroscopically , while the 'microscopic' rhythmic units are organized into easy flowing (2+4) or (4+4+4) inner-units respectively, due to the t'is'ra-cApu-per-outer-beat and 3-kaLai-caturas'ra-naDai-per-outer-beat respectively.

If I did not explain clearly, assume that the first Avarta of s'ankari s'amkuru candramukhi akhilANDEs'vari is our pallavi (luckily we have a nice arudi at 'khi' of candramukhi). The way it is normally sung with tis'ra-cApu-per-kriyA for our example becomes the 'half-tempo' version. The quarter-tempo version has same melodic material and same syllabic structure macroscopically in each Avarta, but now reckoned as caturas'ra naDai 3 kaLai for convenience - whereas in the fastest tempo, the inner-units were tripled per kriyA, in the slowest of these speeds, the kaLai beats are tripled per kriyA - a fractal if we may perceive it so. BTW, it is quite easily possible to sing the 'half-tempo' without reckoning the tis'ra-cApu-per-kriyA explcitly and showing only the outer-beats but am not sure if that would have you less annoyed since there are still six inner-beats per outer-beat (as opposed to 3) that are going to musically manifest in sangatis, niraval, fast-tempo svaras etc Just in jest, and your point is well taken. It is pertinent to point out that experts like TRS could abstract/virtualize the reckoning of the cApu sub-structure and show the outer-beat alone in the half-tempo version described above - even if each outer-beat was equal in duration to a lengthy mis'ra/sankIrNa-cApu.

[bilahari]

Thank you for your clarifications, sr_iyer. I THINK I may have understood.