mEdai nAgarigam: refer to notes or memorise?

Svaapana · Post by **Svaapana** » 31 Dec 2008, 18:36

Sanjay Subrahmanyan made a very interesting point during the Q&A session telecast by Jaya TV (Margazhi maha Utsavam). When asked a question on what he thought of stage etiquette (mEdai nAgarigam?) he referred to his guruÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s opinion on reading notes during the concert. He said that generally an artiste sings around 10 krithis in a concert, could he not commit them to memory and sing (pAdam seidhu pAda mudiyatha?).

Referring to notes while singing gives one an impression that the artiste lacks confidence or makes inadequate effort. I saw one senior vocalist holding the notebook right in front of the mike; it was not a pleasant sight. I canÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t remember SSI, MSS, MMI, GNB and others of that era refer to a book during a concert and their repertoire was huge.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 31 Dec 2008, 20:39

So the artists should only render those that he prepared?

Svaapana · Post by **Svaapana** » 01 Jan 2009, 10:56

Yes that is my personal view. To sing without referring to the notes, obviously, means that the vocalist has put in effort/ hard work (of course a few may have good retentive memory) and the music that is delivered will certainly have more spontaneity. Further once this (bad) habit is formed it is very difficult to come out of it. Fortunately, many of the younger vocalists I heard in this year's festival were spontaneous and show tremendous promise.

saramati · Post by **saramati** » 04 Jan 2009, 13:01

In my opinion, referring to the note book during a concert need not be seend as a bad example. the singer may refer to his note just for reference, and then elaborate the song with his vivid vidwat and imagination. In these days with so many sabhas conducting concerts practically every day, the singer has to be prepared with that many number of ragas and krithis. To sum it up, I don't think we must see this from a negative perspective. Having said that, looking into the note for each and every word, is not what i mean by reference.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 04 Jan 2009, 14:07

It is true that frequency of concerts has increased. But still it should be possible to run through, say 15-20 songs at least once before a concert consisting of 10 songs. Between the 15-20 that have been revised, there is some freedom in choosing what to sing. And then there'll be some songs that can be remembered without revising -- like vAtApi.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Jan 2009, 00:06

The main problem is that looking down to refer to notes affects vocal delivery because of incorrect posture. It also impacts the confidence with which the line is sung. I guess it is OK to open a notebook "just in case" or for 1-2 rare pieces...again, this can easily become addictive and artistes may get too lazy to thoroughly master their krithis.

Especially for youngsters, Gurus should ensure that they are very strict about not consulting notes. Sanjay has given about 25 concerts this season and is not known for repeating items either. If he can manage without a notebook, why should others else require one?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jan 2009, 02:56

The 'vocal delivery' aspect is very valid. The same effect can be seen when the artists are carried away by the moment and move their head too far away from the normal posture.

A laptop kept one or two feet away with the lyrics in bold font, fitting in one page, with no need to scroll down, can solve that problem cleanly. Then, all one needs is a quick glance. Some great orators of the present day, though they have internalized the talk they are going to give, still have the talk in front of them in paper or in a digital display. 'mEdai nAgarigam' in that context is a well honed trick of the trade on how you look it up without making it obvious.

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 05 Jan 2009, 04:42

The concert style adopted by a musician, I believe, contributes to this as well. Sanjay's and TMK's concerts are usually dominated by the manodharma portion and they usually sing only about 3-4 post-main items. For those in the Aruna Sairam's category who allocate a substantial portion of the concert to the post-main items or tukkadas, it may not be practically possible to remember all the tukkada songs. I think it is reasonable to expect a musician to remember all the pre-main and main songs, but it would be unreasonable to expect them to remember all the post-main songs, especially if they belong to the latter category (i.e. Aruna Sairam).

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Jan 2009, 11:23

The best solution then is to limit post main items to 2-3 songs which is the desirable length for this section anyway!

Regd VK's point about laptops, Yesudas does precisely - this is apparently a standard procedure for playback singing. I am not sure that's the way to go either. Apart from the posture, it is important to internalize the song that the sangathis can be sung with complete confidence - looking at a laptop would be a distraction although perhaps less so than a notebook.

kmrasika · Post by **kmrasika** » 05 Jan 2009, 11:55

I saw one senior vocalist holding the notebook right in front of the mike; it was not a pleasant sight.

I intended to refrain from commenting on this issue but since there's been some feedback, my two cents. I mean no harm to any artist or anyone in particular by my comments.

Firstly, I'd rather the artist have a book in front of them then trying to cram the sAhitya into their heads (try on svAti, vEngkaTaramaNa bhAgavatar or even some of the prAcIna composers) as it would be almost impossible to remember all the words correctly, let alone try to pronounce the lyrics correctly, in addition trying to maintaining requirements of rAgatALa structure, etc. In addition, it is a gAyaka dOsha to sing spurious sAhitya - I have heard some top artistes - forgetting lines from very popular pieces and doing a hasty cut-and-paste job or omitting them entirely - no names I will mention here. Given thus, it is safer to bring a book/notation so you can lean on to (not depending wholly on it, of course).

Maybe an organized way for artists' reference, they could type up lyrics on PowerPoint slides and load them into a laptop which they can bring on stage. That way there's no fear of forgetting lines since they can take quick peeks on their screen and quickly retain eye contact with their audience/accompanists.

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 05 Jan 2009, 12:27

vijay wrote: The best solution then is to limit post main items to 2-3 songs which is the desirable length for this section anyway!

Vijay,

Some of today's musicians won't be as popular as they are if they cut down the post-main songs to 2-3. For some of them it is their bread and butter.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 05 Jan 2009, 14:14

Shadjam, I agree that it is a compromise at the end of the day - it is upto each artiste to judge what crosses the line...IMO tukkadas beyonod 20 minutes should be avoided even if it means drawing smaller crowds - Art music should not be about popularity charts - what is to stop artistes from singing gaana music citing bread and butter issues? Then there are examples like Sanjay and Krishna who are able to draw huge crowds without compromising their musical values.

In any case, artistes diluting their music must be ready to face censure from cirtics and serious rasikas. That is one way to restrain artistes from going too far to attract crowds...

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 06 Jan 2009, 14:28

We give respect a musician because we consider him to be a great achiever . He had dedicated his life for the cause of music and spent years in its practice and possessed the amount and the mental agility and capacity to remember and retain whatever he had heard. They are presenting before us the results of such great sacrifice. This automatically brings out our respect for them.

Music was learnt in those days by oral tradition, i.e., through hearing. There were no notes. Even in the music college Brindamma did not give any notes or notations. When music is learnt that way the mental faculties are exercised to the maximum and the retention is assured.

This respect was not given to film musicians because they rendered by consulting notes. When Neiveli Santhangpalan rendered a song with a manuscript before him he looked so off colour. The quality and involvement one get from a fully memorized and practiced song will not be available by singing with notes before them.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 06 Jan 2009, 22:46

when I was devoid of any knowledge about carnatic music and listened perfunctorily just only to placate my parents I always thought that the kirthanas were long like poems since the musicians were singing it for a lenthier durations.

But as I learned ( I am not a professional musician and I would like to call me with a term inferior to a dabbler if any) I never had problems with the lyrics ever. Most songs contain not more than 6 lines. Even hundred songs it makes only 600 lines. So funny when I see musicians fumbling with papers all the time. say if one is singing 12 songs in a concert at least 8 would be popular songs and for the remaining 4 and even if they contain 10 lines of sahithays that is 40 at the max. WHEN A MUSICIAN IS FUMBLING WITH PAGES IT ONLY PROVES THAT, THAT PARTICULAR SONG is YET TO BE PERFECTED BY THE SINGER. I PREFER THEY DO THE PRACTICE AT HOME.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Jan 2009, 01:08

I saw one senior vocalist holding the notebook right in front of the mike; it was not a pleasant sight.

What shocks me about that is not so much the notebook, as the fact that it shows that a "senior artist" has spent, perhaps, years, performing on stage without coming to understand a most basic tool of his trade: the microphone.

I'm shocked, yes --- but not overly surprised; there are artists of all ages who seem to lack the knowledge that the thing only works when sung into.

As an outsider to the art, this song-memory thing has always baffled me. I just don't understand how a person can spend many hours learning and practising the words and melody of a song --- and then be able to remember one but not the other.

In practice, My personal preference is to see an artist perform wholly from memory, but I stress preference: I am not too worried about seeing an artist consult notes.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 07 Jan 2009, 11:51

Consulting notes is probably an indication that the artist has not (or does not prefer to) "internalize" a song before performing it in public.

Internalizing a song is a great deal more than rote memorization.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 07 Jan 2009, 13:42

when a singer looks at his notebook , yes it sounds perfunctory way of singing and a lack in internalising.

And Nick, the fact is most songs would not have more than 6 or seven lines. And a singer should practise at least hundred times each sangathis before singing that in public. For simple calculation if a singer practises hundred times each sangathi and if there are four sangathis for for each line it means that he has screamed each line 400 times. And still if he cannot remember the sahitya or its sequential lines the person is endowed with the poorest memory. they shoudl try screaming the lines louder a hundred more times. might help.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 07 Jan 2009, 15:25

Internalising Sanskrit songs maybe a bit harder, because they're normally a bunch of phrases rather than full sentences.

Abhimanam · Post by **Abhimanam** » 08 Jan 2009, 00:34

I remember, a friend of mine, who is not bothered whether an artist looks at the script or not but is only concerned about the end result, the musical output, who said and I quote "Are you not enjoying the music broadcast from AIR? How sure are you that the artists are not referring to the notes there? If any artist can bring about the raga bhava and sahitya bhava in an aesthetic manner, then that's it, lets not bother whether they refer notes in concert or not"
However, my feeling is that an artist should do sufficient homework before presenting the concert in front of public a live concert is a visual medium and referring to scripts, some times even for popular kritis is deplorable

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 Jan 2009, 00:36

Abhimanam, you're spot on about the end result...I think our discussion is on whether referring to notes impacts the artiste's output...my submission is that it usually does...

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 08 Jan 2009, 20:34

vijay wrote:I think our discussion is on whether referring to notes impacts the artiste's output...my submission is that it usually does...

My view is the same

jagan · Post by **jagan** » 08 Jan 2009, 21:26

I never imagined that there would be so many apologists for this reprehensible practice of referring to sheets of paper, book, laptop etc.. This is quite a modern trend. If an artiste who is a professional and comes to the stage to give a performance, cannot even remember the lines of the sahitya, what can you expect in terms of Bhava or sahitya appreciation? And if they do not have the anubhava themselves, how can they invoke kindred feelings in a rasika ? Carnatic musicians are not playback singers.

And remember , listening to a concert in person is something totally different from listening to the radio or a C.D . Pray, do not confuse matters.

Svaapana · Post by **Svaapana** » 09 Jan 2009, 09:12

"For those in the Aruna Sairam's category who allocate a substantial portion of the concert to the post-main items or tukkadas, it may not be practically possible to remember all the tukkada songs".

I do not think so! MMD, Seerkazhi, Somu, KBS sang many many songs after the main pieces and so did the great MSS. They never consulted the notes. Yes as many have said in this thread, internalisng the songa adds richness to the exposition of the krithis.

How do the instrumentalists cope with this problem? I cant imagine a vainika looking over the veena to see the notes!.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 09 Jan 2009, 10:10

Jagan: What are you expecting? 100% conformance to your view? You have got pretty much everyone except a few to agree with what you are saying.

I am personally not convinced that it is a reprehensive practise, though I do see the great benefits to not having to look at external sources for reference.

shyamsdad · Post by **shyamsdad** » 09 Jan 2009, 10:13

jagan,

My vote is for you!

S.V.Raghavan

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jan 2009, 11:06

While I am also not pleased to see vocalists looking at bits of paper or turning pages of hefty volumes, it does not irk me to the extent that I think it is intolerable. Yes, it definitely distracts and takes away the beauty of the continuous flow of the feeling of a song.
There are exceptions. Elderly performers who did not indulge in this practice at all, now peek at pieces of paper because of loss of memory (another thread's topic if artistes ripe in age should continue performing comes to mind. They are to be heard, but those who do not like to hear them can happily stay away from them). However, younger performers who go through the rigors of mastering AlApanAs, svarams and tAnam singing, somehow do not think that a few lines of a song can be mastered too, as if sAhityam is not part of the discipline which gets them to the performing stage of their training. A pity, because composers dead and alive would like to hear a singer emote the song more than frown upon his making a mistake here and there...

jagan · Post by **jagan** » 09 Jan 2009, 15:21

Vasanthakokilam, Arasi,

Ofcourse, there can be exceptions to any rule. A senior artiste having no side support (in the former days, the sishya will refresh the memory of the Guru in times of need)_may perhaps have to seek recourse to a piece of paper to refresh their failing memory. But the reality is that most of the senior artistes, some of them in their seventies and eighties , do not refer to bits of paper at all ! Have you ever seen Parassala Ponnammal, Vedavalli, Alamelu Mani, Jayalakshmi Santhanam, Thanjavur Sankara Iyer, Govinda Rao Chingleput Ranganathan refer to pieces of Paper ? Even many among the younger generation Sanjay, Vijay Siva,the two Amirthas, all the disciples of Vedavalli, and many many more sing only from memory.

There seems to be no reason to justify the lack of commitment on the part of the delinquent few. Professional pride should prevent them from indulging in such acts.

Sorry, I may be in the microscopic minority that is not able to wink at this unwelcome trend.

One can pardon and put up with this practice, only when the entire concert is based on the compositions of a new composer . The main aim, there , is not the music but the projection of the composer. Even then, the quality of music will suffer but it is a necessary evil one has to put up with.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jan 2009, 18:56

Yes, Jagan! Sumitra Nitin who sang an all Arasi songs concert would not keep an open book in front of her. She feels strongly against looking at the lyrics and singing.
And JS did look at the words this year when she sang my bilahari song. As you say, it was a brand new one for her.So did RKS once, briefly glancing at the words sideways.
By the way, we did meet very briefly somewhere early in the season, didn't we?

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 09 Jan 2009, 23:07

Memory or no memory, tens of thousands of verses from the vedas have come down thousands of years down the line to us quite intact merely by oral tradition.

Classical Music follows the same tradition and it is not surprising that people find the sight of books and papers on the concert stage irritating though that is no business of theirs.

jagan · Post by **jagan** » 09 Jan 2009, 23:18

Arasi
To my great regret, I am not able to recall an experience that should have been a delight.