Historical Account OF C.M. in North America since 1950's

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Feb 2015, 00:59

A HISTORICAL ACCOUNTOF HAPPENINGS IN CARNATIC MUSIC IN NORTH AMERICA

PERSONAL ACCOUNT OF V.K.VISWANATHAN (CACM)

This is a brief & personal account based on experiences with various Giants of Carnaic Music in Twentieth Century and their involvement in propagation of Carnatic Music in North America since the Nineteen fifties. I have lived in USA during this period.
I am starting this special segment as many rasikas who are aware of HAPPENINGS in North America have been quite upset by the book by an eminent musician written recently which has LOTS OF ERRORS regarding what actually happened. I have received many calls as well as requests to straighten these inaccurate decriptions. While the book has elicited praise & lots of discussions I stayed away as I FELT it was NOT WILLING to contribute to furthering the many not so accurate things written about the development of Carnatic Music especially containing factual errors in the area of the title of this section. However I was asked to write about K.V.N. & Bob Brown –The Brahma of Carnatic Music in North America- by K.V.N’S SON. This clinched the issue for me and I decided to start this section in the hope others who are interested & were involved would share their opinions on the various issues.
As is well known the earliest pioneers who headed for the USA included Balasaraswathi, Brinda, T.Ranganathan, T.Viswanathan and Professor. S.Ramanathan among others. These along with Rangaramanujam Iyengar inspired many Americans like Rubin Mama(Boston) and Professors like William Skelton (Colgate), Harry Powers(Princeton), Bruno Netl(Illinois), William Saylor(Sandiego), and Robert Brown.
I want to Discuss Bob Brown first as he along with K.V.N. & Palghat Raghu the main disciples of the Giants ARI & PMI established a firm foundation and base at Weslyan University which was the first to establish a school for carnatic music in their FAMOUS Music Department as part of Ethno-musical studies of various system of Music around the World. In my opinion Bob Brown’s Foresights, Insights and acumen has resulted in the Blossoming spread of Carnatic Music in North America and recognition world wide.
This is an EXCITING story that needs to be told properly and accurately without being exploited for personal reasons. Next I will try to describe BOB BROWN-KVN-RAGHU INTERACTIONS & CONTRIBUTIONS

(TO BE CONTINUED)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Feb 2015, 04:03

Looking forward to this

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Feb 2015, 04:56

Me too. It should be very interesting. Thanks for the efforts, VKV.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 04 Feb 2015, 04:57

Echoing VK and Nick's sentiments. Look forward to the details.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Feb 2015, 08:26

VKV sir
Make sure you also additionally save in notepad or word your entire writings . Looking forward and take your time to post .

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 04 Feb 2015, 11:12

VKV Sir
It is very much historical and the writings must be to record the historical facts. CM's growth and development in NA has set the standards for the globalization model of CM. History is not limited to one intellectual observation, study and perceptions. The facts, with verifiable data, not hearsay, will establish the knowledge. Knowledge would support the determination, decision, commitment, dedication, actions and the results. As one of the pioneer and a great contributor in the history of 'CM, Origin, growth and development in NA-model for Globalization', I and all the rasikas of CM and Indian Classical Music fraternity are looking for your writing/contribution.

munirao2001

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Feb 2015, 12:56

You are doing it at last, my friend! Power to you!
Looking forward to subsequent segments. We can take pride in pioneers like you (from carrying the mridangam on your head in the busy streets of New York to everything!).

Immigrant power and their zeal for keeping their arts and culture has been fully expressed in recent decades by folks like you, NA citizens in bringing CM to the point where youngsters born and brought up there are willing to come and live in Chennai, purely because of their desire to learn their forefathers' music.

As Rajesh says, please saveyour writing on notepad, and then put them up here. A lesson I had to learn, after losing so much material, and in having to retype them, with Oy BhArathiyArE and the rest

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Feb 2015, 23:02

BOB BROWN-K.V.N.-PALGHAT RAGHU- MY INTERACTIONS & MY VIEW OF THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS(2)
As this will be a personal account, I typically will start with how I met each person. I met ROBERT BROWN in the early fifties in Madras when he was there doing his monumental thesis on Mridangam (still one of the most detailed accounts of all aspects of the instrument). I attended concerts with him and exchanged ideas etc. Like MOST AMERICANS he was very open & straightforward which was the antithesis of the Musicians& Music Culture of Madras. I find the discussions in this forum about caste,gender esp about Brahmins, Non-Brahmins actually not only SHALLOW but funny if one wishes to be charitable. For the record I was born a Brahmin(Iyer) …… He surprisingly encountered what can only be described as Reverse Discrimination; Though he was white the (preferred colour) Brahmin musicians would not let him near them! Only Non-brahmin musicians would deal with him! T.Viswanathan was one of them & partially this has resulted in one particular school of music being promulgated as the proper music as far as the carnatic genre was concerned!....Any way he was perceptive enough to concentrate on the music part and was very smart to understand the greatness of carnatic music which he was determined to propagate in USA as part of ethnomusical studies at least…He clearly recognized the GREATNESS & GENIUS OF ARI& PMI AS THE PILLARS. I find it funny some of today’s musicians not only do not recognize this but use their cheap access to the press to put down giants responsible for their daily bread today. As the Violin Trinity was not available for extended period he BOLDLY decided to just start with VOCAL& MRIDANGAM. He persuaded KVN& P.R. to come to Weslyan to start a curriculam on Carnatic Music to students who heard this type of music for the first time in their lives….Even in Madras this was both revolutionary and unheard of but he had the judgement, knowledge and conviction. He just said that if these cannot bring out the best, especially as the major disciples of the architects of twentieth century carnatic music there was no hope for it to succeed & he was sure it would!....
I first met KVN when I finished High School(1949) at Tambaram Sangeetha Sabha Concert of ARI; Though I attended many of his concerts due to my own efforts to leave India etc (like going to the Moon overcoming Earth’s Gravity !) lost touch with him & saw him in NYC Asia Society concert w/Raghu. I rushed to the stage after a brilliant “Sabapathikku”&asked him what he needed. He said both were desperate for MANGO oorugai(Pickles)& I rushed to Kalistyuans a grocery store on Lexington ave (which still is open) & got six bottles of various kinds ; When I returned to the concert KVN was singing “Eppa varuvaro” to the astounding Thoppi& Gumkis of Raghu. I was in musical heaven in Manhattan. At the end of the concert I met them & took them to Middletown, CT to Weslyan where I duly met BOB.BROWN after the Madras days & he told me about his new concept called “Curry Concerts” every Friday & asked me to come. Of course I WAS THERE EVERY FRIDAY driving from JFK AS I was travelling a lot as part of the U.S.Space program & MMI’S Chandram Bjhaja was playing in the cassette. (I was working with Armstrong& Aldrin the first two Astronauts who stepped on the Moon). They would return to my Manhattan Apt & I would drive& drop them back in Middletown on Sunday. THOSE CURRY CONCERTS WERE THE BEST PURE CARNATIC MUSIC AT ITS BEST I HAVE HEARD! I will describe more of the activities in NYC later…….
I first met Raghu also in the early fifties ; Actually LGJ introduced him to me in a GNB Concert. I was very shy & rightly did not express anything to him as my esteem for these geniuses was such that as a student I knew the gulf involved ( esp. as a music student myself). He still remembered me after all the years which surprised me! Subsequently I found out that Musicians never forget any Rasika who attended their concert even once…..This turned out to be not only a friendship but musical homage on my part that still exists today. Actually it is this interaction that emboldened me to get into actively starting, organizing etc of societies, concerts etc. These efforts today have BLOSSOMED into the Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival annually which under the genius of Cleveland Sundaram with roughly ten thousand in attendance in 10 days of which close to two thousand are children born in North America……..(TO BE CONTINUED) VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Feb 2015, 23:15

rajeshnat wrote:VKV sir
Make sure you also additionally save in notepad or word your entire writings . Looking forward and take your time to post .

THANKS! I am saving them as WORD DOCUMENTS. VKV

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 05 Feb 2015, 06:48

Wonderful! ( I used to go from Yale to attend the Curry Concerts at Wesleyan ...but in the late 60's when M A Kalyanakrishna Bhagavathar was there along with his daughter Muthulakshmi)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Feb 2015, 08:16

cacm wrote: I rushed to the stage after a brilliant “Sabapathikku”&asked him what he needed. He said both were desperate for MANGO oorugai(Pickles)& I rushed to Kalistyuans a grocery store on Lexington ave (which still is open) & got six bottles of various kinds ; When I returned to the concert KVN was singing “Eppa varuvaro” to the astounding Thoppi& Gumkis of Raghu. I was in musical heaven in Manhattan.

VKV Sir
May be it was a sheer coincidence , when you bought in mango pickles and as you were rushing back , shri kvn sang eppa varuvArO

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Feb 2015, 08:19

cacm wrote:Any way he was perceptive enough to concentrate on the music part and was very smart to understand the greatness of carnatic music which he was determined to propagate in USA as part of ethnomusical studies at least…He clearly recognized the GREATNESS & GENIUS OF ARI& PMI AS THE PILLARS.

VKV sir,
Tell us a bit more about Bob Brown prior to he taking up this ethnomusical studies . Was he a english professor in some university.
How long was this ethnomusical studies course . Was it a part time course say 2 hours every day for three days in a week . Did you or pasupathy sir enroll in that ?

shankar vaidyanathan · Post by **shankar vaidyanathan** » 05 Feb 2015, 08:41

VKV Sir,

Thank you for taking the time to brief us about this topic. It is very interesting for me to read to learn previous history and happenings. Kindly also touch upon how and why Wesleyan chose the Ethnomusic subject and to highlight CM. Were they also pursuing other non western musical traditions at the time as part of their academic offerings? This historical context will help to educate us.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Feb 2015, 10:53

Desar S.V., The interesting fact about Weslyan Music Dept at that time it had Professors who had pursued & specialised in various areas of MUSIC. Apart from Western Classical Music, with DAVE brubeck the famous JAZZ EXPONENT LIVING JUST 15 MILES AWAY Jazz expertise was pursued, as well as Native American Music with Professor McAlister who was an authority and various other areas. BOB BROWN himself spent summers in Indonesia and was a specialist in GAMALAN a complex Indonesian instrument, Japanese KOTO, AS WELL AS Greek Music. BUT FORTUNATELY FOR US SOUTH INDIAN MUSIC was his FORTE AND HE PERSUADED THE UNIVERSITY to start a speciality study program in Carnatic Music the only one at that time & the first of its kind in N.A. JON HIGGINS is the most famous of the students who was called HIGGINS BHAGAVATHAR IN MADRAS! Wall paper posters of Higgins Bhagavathar concerts were common in the Madras Walls! ONLY BILL GATES HAS SINCE RECEIVED A SIMILAR TREATMENT.I am omitting the likes of Billy Graham etc. I will be covering these in due course.
ALSO THE VARIOUS SEGMENTS ARE NOT GOING TO BE COVERED SEQUENTIALLY. After the BOB BROWN-KVN-P.R. SEGMENT I HOPE TO REVERT TO A CHRONOLOGOCAL DESCRIPTION. VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 05 Feb 2015, 13:22

VKV Sir,

I find it funny some of today’s musicians not only do not recognize this but use their cheap access to the press to put down giants responsible for their daily bread today.

. As a very much respected Scientist, please do not accept hearsay to form and express opinion like this quote. If you are referring to TMK, his column in The Hindu and his book on KM Story, I have read only respect and reverence to the Great Maestros in his writings. TMK also does not have 'cheap access' to the press.
I beseech you, please let your writing of an epoch in the History of KM, be scientific history based on the facts.

munirao2001

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 05 Feb 2015, 14:45

Sir, The thread is interesting and let us hear Sri VKV's experience and views. Those who have views on TMK need not be half-baked necessarily. Just as TMK has drastic views, others can have their own views on him. Sir, you yourself mentioned how The Anti-Hindu refused to publish the corrections n a review. So access to press is a privileged thing.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 05 Feb 2015, 16:07

Can we please separate the thread into two? One for VKV sir's original posting[s] and one for comments? Keeping the comments separately will be better I think.

Mods, VKV sir your thoughts?

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 05 Feb 2015, 16:17

kvchellappa Sir,
I just wanted no diversion, in this one of the Best Historical piece being written by one of the greatest rasika.
What I posted on the rejection is also a fact, action taken by the moderator for online edition. The brief given or action reflects simply reject any criticism.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 05 Feb 2015, 16:19

I also second a very good suggestion of MaheshS Sir.

munirao2001

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 05 Feb 2015, 16:45

VKV sir,
Reading your narratives with great interest. Let goddess Sarasvati fill your heart with passion as usual, your mind with Vyasa's and Valmiki's kind of flow, and let your computer be blessed by Ganesha.
Please save your writings on the computer and also post it here with a reference number for each post. Like #..1 dt 5.2.2015 .. and so on. searching and book marking etc. will then be easy.

Thank you. Thank you.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Feb 2015, 21:43

MaheshS wrote:Can we please separate the thread into two? One for VKV sir's original posting[s] and one for comments? Keeping the comments separately will be better I think.

Mods, VKV sir your thoughts?

Dear Mahesh, I am sure you agree that if I just write the history of what happened it will be dry, not too interesting except as an autobiographical account. I AM AVOIDING NAMES LIKE TMK etc as I feel they are incidental to the account but neverthless what some else might have done or said has to be addressed. I DO WISH TO ADDRESS VARIOUS ISSUES AS IT WOULD HELP EVERYONE TO GET A BETTER PERSPECTIVE.
IF MY ACCOUNT ON ITS OWN IS CONSIDERED WORTHWHILE I AGREE ITS A GOOD IDEA TO START A SEPARATE SEGMENT FOR COMMENTS BY OTHERS.. I LEAVE IT TO THE MODS. I STARTED THIS WHOLE THING AS A RESULT OF PERSONS WHO ARE IN THE KNOW WHO WERE UPSET BY CERTAIN INACCURATE STATEMENTS. SOME OF THEM ARE CHILDREN OF ARTISTS THEMSELVES!
AT AGE 80 with 60 years of trying to do SOMETHING- its a matter of opinion- about Carnatic Music- I DO NOT HAVE AXES TO GRIND & I WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THAT AS A GENERAL STATEMENT THINGS HAVE IMPROVED EXPONENTIALLY SINCE THE TIME I COULD NOT ARRANGE SRIVANJIYAM MANI IYER'S CONCERT BECAUSE I COULD NOT AFFORD TO BUY A THIRD CLASS TICKET FROM MAYAVARAM TO MADRAS!.....VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Feb 2015, 21:55

rajeshnat wrote:
cacm wrote:Any way he was perceptive enough to concentrate on the music part and was very smart to understand the greatness of carnatic music which he was determined to propagate in USA as part of ethnomusical studies at least…He clearly recognized the GREATNESS & GENIUS OF ARI& PMI AS THE PILLARS.
VKV sir,
Tell us a bit more about Bob Brown prior to he taking up this ethnomusical studies . Was he a english professor in some university.
How long was this ethnomusical studies course . Was it a part time course say 2 hours every day for three days in a week . Did you or pasupathy sir enroll in that ?

BOB BROWN was a graduate student who did his research thesis at UCLA. He was in the music department-actually was a very good pianist who had to play piano in Night Clubs in Indonesia in the summer to continue his studies, make a living etc till he got various scholarships- in Seattle& Ucla & did his thesis at UCLA IN MRIDANGAM and started the WHOLE FIELD OF ETHNOMUSICOLOGY which was limping along at that time. Because his instincts& judgements were so perfect + he had the unique ability to succeed - I CONSIDER HIM A UNIQUE POINEER& GENIUS- HE INVARIABLY SUCCEEDED in impossible tasks like introducing Carnatic Music in a country& university WHERE IT WAS UNKNOWN, THAT TOO IN ITS PUREST FORM.
In those days-I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS NOW A DAYS- at universities like WESLYAN which were considered to be LEADING LIBERAL ARTS SCHOOLS the students could take certain core courses as well as a certain percentage on OTHER SUBJECTS. So in addition to MUSIC STUDENTS LOTS OF OTHER STUDENTS can attend or take for credit coursers in MUSIC, PHYSICS ETC. There was no specific part time courses. Most of the American Musicians like JON HIGGINS,DAVID RECK ETC started as regular students & shifted to Carnatic music as their main interest. This resulted in Carnatic music being recognised as a subject itself & JON HIGGINS, T.VISWANATHAN & L.SHANKAR OBTAINING Ph.D. S.....VKV

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Feb 2015, 22:30

Regarding splitting the topic, it will be hard to do since members want to talk about specific things that VKV posts. Jumping between topics would not work for that reason.

Once activity in this thread subsides and after VKV feels he is done for now (whenever that is) we can see if we can copy his narratives alone into a separate thread.

Yep, let us keep the discussion to the stated goals of this topic as much as possible. It is unavoidable we will go off on a tangent once in a while but let us minimize it.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Feb 2015, 01:27

A BREAK FROM R.B.-KVN-RAGHU TO SET THE STAGE BETTER: I am taking a break from the above subject to write my account of an attempt at:
ROUGH CHRONOLGICAL HISTORY OF CM IN NORTH AMERICA (3)
Probably the earliest exposure to Indian Classical Music (North & South- Ravi Shankar was part of this troupe) was thru’ Uday Shankar’ troupe in the early part of the twentieth century. In the fifties (LATE) S.Ramanathan, T.Balarsaraswathi and T.Ranganathan, (T.Viswanathan?) were involved with teaching at UCLA & Seattle (University of Washington). Attempts to start music schools there were not successful. Subsequently BOB BROWN managed to start at Weslyan music department a specialization in Carnatic music in the sixties (discussed elsewhere). This attracted MANY Carnatic Musicians (discussed elsewhere) who regularly came to Weslyan for a year or two. In terms of Concert Music (popularly called Platform Music) the first organized tour was sponsored by the Asia Society (Paul Sherbert the President was U.S. Consul General IN MADRAS) IN EARLY SXTIES. Veena S.Balachander led a group which consisted of Flute N.Ramani, Umayalpuram Sivaraman (Mridangam), Vellore Ramabhadran (Ghatam & Kanjira)) and Natesan (Thambura-Veena repairman).
At the risk of being criticized I am going to describe this tour in some detail as I want to contrast it with today’s V.V.Sundaram’s annual GALA at Cleveland to give a good idea of the gradual evolution at many levels that has occurred. I was a graduate student at Rochester & flew to NYC to attend the concert (air fare was 175 dollars while my monthly research assistantship was 125 dollars!) & S.B. was the first one with whom I spoke Tamil after landing in JFK in 1959! The concert itself was a skewed affair apart from a 5 minute Samajavaragamana by Ramani at supersonic speed & a ten minute Thani! It ended around 9:30 P.M. an unfortunate time because almost all Broadway Plays end around that time & TAXIS were IMPOSSIBLE TO hail esp with the Veena, Thambura, MRIDANGAMS& GHATAMS! Not that we could afford it! I ended up on the stage but S.B. HAD DISAPPEARED with PAUL S. The rest of them were flabbergasted & made me the leader (supposed to be expert as I was in USA before them!) to take them home. It was close to 1.5 miles (45 st-15 st in 20 streets=1 mile). Fortunately I knew how to count as well knew the fact that streets&avenues were at right angles! We started out like a marriage group with Sivaraman’s mridangam on my head like “ Porter Kandan” in the tamil movies. Fortunately NOTHING SURPRISES New Yorkers & we took our own time reaching the destination. I REALISED not only the DIFFICULTIES of playing the Mridangam but carrying it on one’s head! I returned to LaGuardia to fly back to Rochester. They did not know where & when the next concert was! I found out later on it was in Rochester & was fortunate I had attended NYC CONCERT. I am writing this not to criticize anyone but to provide a contrast to today’s Sundaram run festival where 200 musicians are handled door to door & stay in comfort inn across the street in real comfort!......As I am hoping to describe what happened in detail later on in various tours etc. Let me conclude by saying the Highlights for me are: (Apart from the many Cleveland Triumphs) 1) M.S.S. ’66 TOUR- U.N.CONCERT 2) ’71 LGJ-NR.R-R.R.-T.S..-N.R. “SOLO-JUGULBANDHI “ TOUR 3)SHEIKH CHINNA MOULANA’S ’73 TOUR WHERE HE WAS TELEVISED WITH A MARRIAGE PROCESSION TYPE CONCERT AROUND COLGATEUNIVERSITY CAMPUS & HIS SAN FRANSISCO UNION SQUARE OPEN AIR CONCERT WITH AUDIENCE OF CLOSE TO TWENTY THOUSAND WITH BROWN BAG LUNCHES . 4) T.V.S-M.CV.-TKM 45CONCERT TOUR WITH 45 CONCERTS IN 26 DAYS AFTER SPENDING A MONTH AT MY HOME & CLOSE TO 2 MONTHS AT Cleveland Sundaram’s house in Cleveland due to concert cancellations!
I hope to cover these & other things that happened. BY NECESSITY THIS WILL BE A “WARTS & ALL” DESCRIPTION. The” moral” or the “truth” to me is that JUST taking a plane half way around the world does not change human nature though’ it is the same that results in great things! YIN-YANG?!...... VKV (TO BE CONTINUED)

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Feb 2015, 10:09

R.B-K.V.N.-P.R.---CURRY CONCERTS (4)
One of the many brilliant ideas BOB came up with was “CURRY CONCERTS”. Every Friday night at his house KVN& PR gave a full fledged Carnatic music concert for two hours with R.B. himself playing the Thambura. Afterwards there was a potluck. There was just the announcement of the raga, tala & composer but no further explanations. Initially a few musicians were invited along with the students; As I wrote before the surrounding area had many famous musicians like Dave Brubeck and his drummer Morelli who had played with Palani Subramania Pillai in AIR IN 1958! He subsequently took lessons from PR. KVN similarly attracted musicians from all over the world. An Algerian musician Tofuk actually moved to Madras to continue his lessons with KVN. Very soon word spread like wildfire across the area and MANY students from Yale University (nearby) as well as faculty and almost MANY became regulars and the venue had to be shifted to accommodate the large regular audience. BEING BOTH EXPERTS the concerts were some of the best I have heard though there was no violin an unheard of situation. They showed that their level of brilliance was such that they held the attention and sway easily. They would hold up beginning the concert till I showed up from JFK BACK FROM MY NASA job (ANYWHERE FROM California to Florida)! At the end of the concert I would drive them back to my Manhattan apartment which was near Village Gate a famous night club where the leading JAZZ MUSICIANS played. KVN & RAGHU were invited to play also as these were what are called Jam Sessions in a free format & they impressed the leading musicians who dropped in. Actually once the famous Tony Bennett (famous for “I left my heart in San Francisco” & still a rage in his Nineties!) sang & invited KVN & Raghu to follow him! For those familiar with the Jazz scene this was like performing at the Music Academy impromptu. R.B. also arranged for them to perform at various music schools and universities. There were no Indian Societies till Ananda Vikatan Manian & Kalka Rajendran came as official U.S.State dept guests but moved into my apartment !This gave the impetus to BHARATHI Society being formed which duly conducted Carnatic Music Concerts. Thyagaraja day was conducted in my house in New City N.Y. with all the Weslyan Students & Faculty participating. In 1966 when M.S.S. CAME TO USA (for the Famous U.N. CONCERT) AT Weslyan a DOUBLE MRIDANGAM CONCERT WITH V.V.Subramaniam as violinist which resulted in his returning from Rome after audience with Pope to join KVN & RAGHU at WESLYAN. The negotiations – A LONG STORY UNTO ITSELF- took place in my apartment & RAGHU INSISTED IT WAS KVN'S “molagoottal” that clinched the deal. In the meanwhile KVN& PR WERE INVITED by Ravi Shankar to perform in a Hollywood Bowl Concert. The BEATLES- THEY WERE experts in Indian music- were impressed & Harrison actually took vocal lessons from KVN. McCartney not only listens to carnatic music but is such an expert once when I was visiting he called VINOD Venkataraman (a member here) to discuss an intricate thani by PMI!.....There is just too much to describe so LET ME CONCLUDE ON A PERSONAL NOTE. As I had very little time I had very few vessels to cook etc. When my wife arrived in NYC ON FEB 5,’67 after I left for JFK airport KVN& RAGHU BOUGHT ALL THE UTENSILS & PREPARED A ROYAL MEAL including Avial, Sakkai Pradhaman etc. When I RETURNED WITH MY WIFE we were treated to a truly Royal meal! In addition next day when we left for a wedding reception in Washington D.C. for us they voluntarily offered & played a concert. So we had the good fortune of both T.K.MURTHY& P.R. PERFORM ON THEIR OWN at our wedding in Tiruchanur & reception in washinmgton! To conclude this segment when I LEFT FOR India to get married I was seen off by none other than R.K.Narayan who presented his book “ Gods, Demons and Others”!
What more can a part time struggling master of ceremonies cum Thambura player ask? It was truly an honour to know R.B.-KVN & P.R. ………..GENIUSES & GREAT TIMES. I WAS TRULY LUCKY!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Feb 2015, 10:35

VKV,
Touching and heart-warming accounts--not that there is anything surprising about that. Bless you!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Feb 2015, 14:46

cacm wrote:GENIUSES & GREAT TIMES. I WAS TRULY LUCKY!

One of the luckiest men in the world. Such memories are worth more than crown jewels.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 06 Feb 2015, 19:30

Wonderful recollections Sri VKV.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 06 Feb 2015, 19:57

very interesting indeed.
Vkv Sir
Since Pran Nath was the first to set kirana school in new york in 1970 , you must have bumped into them as well. And stories about Baba Allauddin Khan, gs sachdev , randhir roy,sridhar krishnamurthy
Eager to know if there are such angles to your story .And photographs too..!!!!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Feb 2015, 21:38

This is getting better with every post in this thread by VKV. Great humor too. Very enjoyable to read.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Feb 2015, 21:53

Dear Varsha, I did interact with them as I first became active in TAGORE SOCIETY before Bharathi Society was started by a few of us- A TAMIL SANGAM also sprang up under Dr.Kumaresan the usual Brahmin-NonBrahmin divide that happened in the usual fashion when C.N.Annadurai was in NYC in C.V.N'S APT in Manhattan when EVERY MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE of Bharathi Soicirty was Brahmin! & they would not include even a token N.B.!-
Unfortunately my job at NASA forced me to leave NYC on Monday morning & return on friday mid-night with KVN& RAGHU& SPEND THE WEEK END WITH THEM & RAVI SHANKAR ETC. Lots of persons including some of them have stayed in my Apt tho' I was never around! The Indian Consulate had a spare key & the Doorman was instructed to let in any one wearing a Sari or robes! Many Swamijis inc. Hare Krishna Founder Swami. PRABHU PADA HAD STAYED THERE!.....VKV UNFORTUNATELY I was not smart enough to have a tape recorder or take pics. I still REGRET the BEST concert of Brinda with T.Viswanathan in Indian Consulate was not recorded....VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Feb 2015, 21:57

vasanthakokilam wrote:This is getting better with every post in this thread by VKV. Great humor too. Very enjoyable to read.

Dear V, THANKS! DEPENDING ON THE FEEDBACK I intend writing& answering Any& All questions. I am doing this also because as Indians we are NOTORIOUS in not having written history. This is one of the few things I have learnt in USA apart from writing papers while unsure of the Physics! VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Feb 2015, 21:58

cienu wrote:Wonderful recollections Sri VKV.

THANKS! I will be writing about M.S.S'66 TOUR with VERY INTERESTING DETAILS LATER....VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Feb 2015, 21:59

Nick H wrote:
cacm wrote:GENIUSES & GREAT TIMES. I WAS TRULY LUCKY!
One of the luckiest men in the world. Such memories are worth more than crown jewels.

YES! I AGREE....VKV

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Feb 2015, 01:21

cacm wrote: GENIUSES & GREAT TIMES. I WAS TRULY LUCKY!

You made your own luck, Sir!
I (devoutly) hope that you (and Ramesh Mama [Sri MKR]) will actually publish your remisences properly (even an iBook will be good), so that this history reaches everyone, and not just the small segment that logs into this forum. I think that the forum still doesn't show up on google searches, so everything that people like you (and Ramesh Mama) have to share are restricted to us...and I think that you have to work on the 'vayyagam' scale truly (nIr peTRa inbam ivvayagam peRuga)....

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Feb 2015, 01:22

Nick H wrote:Such memories are worth more than crown jewels.

Of course, Nick! You and I know that those can be stolen...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Feb 2015, 04:23

rshankar wrote:
cacm wrote: GENIUSES & GREAT TIMES. I WAS TRULY LUCKY!
You made your own luck, Sir!
I (devoutly) hope that you (and Ramesh Mama [Sri MKR]) will actually publish your remisences properly (even an iBook will be good), so that this history reaches everyone, and not just the small segment that logs into this forum. I think that the forum still doesn't show up on google searches, so everything that people like you (and Ramesh Mama) have to share are restricted to us...and I think that you have to work on the 'vayyagam' scale truly (nIr peTRa inbam ivvayagam peRuga)....

Dear Sri.R.Shankar,
THANKS! I am writing a brief account here. Separately I am writing in detail my interactions with Scientists & Mucians I was privileged to know & hope to write it in a more formal fashion. I will definitely let you know when I complete it. In the meanwhile I -MKR is one of the co-authors- am trying to author part of a unique multi-media book on M.S. which we are hoping to publish by jan 2016 her centenary celebration year. If you have any suggestions reg. this or how to celebrate the centenary pl. write me at [email protected]. Regs, vkv

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 07 Feb 2015, 08:11

VKV sir, Wonderful to read your accounts here. I echo Ravi Shankar's (not the pandit, but the good doctor above!) hope that both your and MKR's chronicles get published in a more concrete form. Meanwhile, those of us who know will keep a record ! Also, as you well know, I am eagerly looking forward to the "scientists" portion of your reminiscences, glimpses of which I usually get while interrogating you over the phone !

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Feb 2015, 08:19

UDAY S, TO MISQUOTE FEYNMAN : " SURELY YOU MUST BE JOKING"!....Having decided to make a fool of myself I guess I might go all the way! With symphathetic friends like you I am truly encouraged....VKV

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 07 Feb 2015, 08:52

Here is a man 80+ willing to share his experiences, recollection of past anectodes and so forth.
Munirao and the likes... let's not get judgemental or contradicterian so as to affect his flow and entho.
Many a times they only drift to being "irrelevant" , loosing sight of the main theme.

VKV sir...pl continue without being perturbed by counter comments.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Feb 2015, 10:29

Sri VKV: This is wonderful! Keep them coming...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Feb 2015, 12:36

VKV and MKR... surely a winning combination!

Sreeni Rajarao · Post by **Sreeni Rajarao** » 07 Feb 2015, 23:01

I am going to create a new phrase here - "Aha Thread!"

VKV Sir,
Thank you for sharing your fascinating memories! I know it is only going to get better!

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Feb 2015, 23:47

Thanks! Coming from you it is high praise.........VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 09 Feb 2015, 15:54

Purist and likes
[quote]I just wanted no diversion, in this one of the Best Historical piece being written by one of the greatest rasika.[/quote]

munirao2001

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 09 Feb 2015, 21:22

I opened Rasikas.org after a fairly long break. What a pleasant surprise from VKV Sir. I choked reading the notes. Actually I thought he wouldn't write when he skipped the date he promised. I didn't want to remind him considering his age. VKV Sir pl keep writing at your own leisure & pleasure even if it goes on & on. I am sure you have plenty to say. Cleveland should have a Hall of Fame with Bob Brown & all those names mentioned by VKV Sir including himself & Cleveland Sundaram. Let us get the best out VKV Sir.

There is no smiley for falling at your feet.

KNV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 09 Feb 2015, 23:03

Dear KNV, THANKS. AS I WROTE BEFORE THE SUBJECT MATTER & THE PERSONS INVOLVED ARE SO OVERWHELMING I WANTED TO FIND THE PROPER MECHANISM TO DO JUSTICE! Having made a start I intend writing whatever I know including my own views which I am sure are different than others. Ultimately only through HONEST EXCHANGES we can improve things & understand them too.Sugar coating OBVIOUS MISTAKES ONLY RESULT IN ELEVATING "FALSE PROPHETS!"VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 10 Feb 2015, 01:19

R.B.-K.V.N.-P.R.-CURRY CONCERTS (5) To do proper justice to this subject a separate book has to be written! Also as this forum has experts who know more than me I am hoping they will fill in the gaps in my narration. Before I proceed further I wish to say that my reason why BOB BROWN is not recognized to the extent is because is somewhat because of his life style & other factors I will not go into here as the aim is somewhat restricted to MUSIC ASPECTS etc. Let me briefly point out why apart from how KVN& P.R. faithfully represented their EPOCH MAKING GURUS they were GREAT ON THEIR OWN & CREATED THEIR OWN STYLES. KVN especially later on his career concentrated on Sruthi Suddham & Swarasthana Suddham & Sowkyam he told me (&VVS) that he considered MMI as his Manaseega Guru in areas like Sowkyam, & SRUTHI Aspects of carnatic music. As a matter of fact fanatic fans of MMI like me noticed that he seemed to relish this aspect & ESP.in his rendering of Swarna Dhikshithar compositions etc . In my opinion apart from his other unique additions he scaled new& greater heights. Similarly P.Raghu incorporated- like Tiruchy Sankaran who adopted lots of P.M.I. Specialities in his playing some of Palani Subramamania Pillai’s Best in his playing also; But their creativity & originality was such that they CRREATED their own styles of playing. In the case of BOB BROWN like most creative persons who got things done his life was tortuous at best and especially towards the end of his life things took a skiddish dive. He moved from Weslyan to San Fransisco & ended up in San Diego. His last two Indian recruits were N.Muralikrishnan( more of a musicologist) & Vinod Venkataraman (father of Aishu Venkataraman the prodigy violinist & P.Raghu’s student) who replaced Trichur Narendran in San diego & went on to finish his Ph.D in Mathematics & is currently a professor at Long Beach State in L.A. IN CA. I am hoping persons like him will complete this story as I moved to Los Alamos the most secretive place to work on projects I still cannot talk about & I do not completely know this story either…I will next complete this segment with the Curry Concerts (continued) in which Jon Higgins, Tiruchy Sankaran & T.Viswanathan play a prominent role along with many of the leading vidwans. (To be Continued)

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 10 Feb 2015, 22:41

Cleveland should have a Hall of Fame with Bob Brown & all those names mentioned by VKV Sir including himself & Cleveland Sundaram. Let us get the best out VKV Sir.

KNV

VERY GOOD SUGGESTION. I WILL PASS IT ON TO THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS. AS THE FESTIVAL IS HELD IN THE CLEVELAND STATE UNIVERSITY AUDITORIUM may be the TEMPLE may be a candidtate. I will certainly investigate your very good idea when I go to Cleveland for the Festival. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Feb 2015, 01:11

I REQUEST A "TIME OUT"- like my six year old Grandson says- I am currently being overwhelmed by My participatory activities in the Cleveland Festival. I want to do a decent job; So please bear with me. VKV

Here's a long interview with Sri KVN where he's discussed a lot about ARI : http://www.narada.org/interview-with-kvn.html
In the meanwhile please read this excellent interview with K.V.N. & ARTICLES ABOUT HIS GURU A.R.I. IN THE WEBSITE RUN BY KVN'S DISCIPLE H.V.Srivatasn a child prodigy himself a scientist living in CA NOW). VKV