VandanaDhAriNi
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Recently I heard a krithi Sudha MadhooryA , a GNB krithi in the RAgam vandanaDhArini . Can you post the list of krithis/varnams along with the composer's name in this RAgam ??.
Any more insights like whether this rAgam is ancient or a fairly new raga ,any musician who is well known to have rendered this RAga etc is well appreciated.???
Any more insights like whether this rAgam is ancient or a fairly new raga ,any musician who is well known to have rendered this RAga etc is well appreciated.???
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Songs in vandanadhariNi
Anbu sheivai maname adanal amaidiyum-Adi-K.S.Krishnamurti
Avai arindu pesha vendum arignyar-Rupaka-Dandapani Deshikar
Ayyar enai aluginrar arutperum jyotiyinar (a)-Adi-Ramalingasvami
Devi nan unnai sharan adainden-?-K.R.Radhakrishnan
Devi nityam bhavayamyanisham kalatitam-Adi-Kollegal R.Subramaniam
Gauripate pashupate kripanidhe kailasapate-Adi-S.Maralingam
Idukku tunaiyai-Adi-V.S.Gomatishankara Iyer
Ini agilum maname ayyanai ni ninaiyayo diname-Adi-Vedanayakam Pillai
Maname unakk-hitamayoru vartai-Rupaka-Gopalakrishna Bharati
Muruganai ninai-Adi-Minakshisuta
Muruganin namattai parugiduvai nanje mudu marai-Adi-C.V.Padmanabhan
Nandavadana virajite-?-Bangalore S.Mukund
Pahi rama-Rupaka-Bangalore S.Mukund
Sarathiyai varuvaye kanna shamar tannile-Adi-Periasami Tooran
Sarva devatmakam vande sarvada-Adi-C.S.Shivaramakrishna Bhagavatar
Shri maha lakshmim-Rupaka-R.K.Suryanarayana
Sudha madhurya bhashini-Adi-G.N.Balasubramaniam
Varam taruvai ni varalakshmiye-Adi-Ashok R.Madhav
Anbu sheivai maname adanal amaidiyum-Adi-K.S.Krishnamurti
Avai arindu pesha vendum arignyar-Rupaka-Dandapani Deshikar
Ayyar enai aluginrar arutperum jyotiyinar (a)-Adi-Ramalingasvami
Devi nan unnai sharan adainden-?-K.R.Radhakrishnan
Devi nityam bhavayamyanisham kalatitam-Adi-Kollegal R.Subramaniam
Gauripate pashupate kripanidhe kailasapate-Adi-S.Maralingam
Idukku tunaiyai-Adi-V.S.Gomatishankara Iyer
Ini agilum maname ayyanai ni ninaiyayo diname-Adi-Vedanayakam Pillai
Maname unakk-hitamayoru vartai-Rupaka-Gopalakrishna Bharati
Muruganai ninai-Adi-Minakshisuta
Muruganin namattai parugiduvai nanje mudu marai-Adi-C.V.Padmanabhan
Nandavadana virajite-?-Bangalore S.Mukund
Pahi rama-Rupaka-Bangalore S.Mukund
Sarathiyai varuvaye kanna shamar tannile-Adi-Periasami Tooran
Sarva devatmakam vande sarvada-Adi-C.S.Shivaramakrishna Bhagavatar
Shri maha lakshmim-Rupaka-R.K.Suryanarayana
Sudha madhurya bhashini-Adi-G.N.Balasubramaniam
Varam taruvai ni varalakshmiye-Adi-Ashok R.Madhav
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The sAhitya for the varnam is as follows:
Pallavi
bhUlOka nAradamunivarya
sAlokAdi padavi svArdhAnubhava mUrtti
Anupallavi
I lOkamuna mAnava avatAruDai
ihapara sAdanalanu bOdhincina sadguru mUrtti
caraNam
sangIta kOvida SRI tyAgarAjam satatam bhajEham
The varnam has five caraNasvarAs and is composed in khanDa tRputa tALam. I'll see if I can find a clip!
Ashwin
Pallavi
bhUlOka nAradamunivarya
sAlokAdi padavi svArdhAnubhava mUrtti
Anupallavi
I lOkamuna mAnava avatAruDai
ihapara sAdanalanu bOdhincina sadguru mUrtti
caraNam
sangIta kOvida SRI tyAgarAjam satatam bhajEham
The varnam has five caraNasvarAs and is composed in khanDa tRputa tALam. I'll see if I can find a clip!
Ashwin
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Hi,
Here is a track that I got from Ramji (davalangi) of Prof SRJ singing this varNam - I assume the accompanying singers are Ashwin/Rohin...
http://rapidshare.de/files/20113234/01. ... i.mp3.html
THANKS RAMJI!
Ravi
Here is a track that I got from Ramji (davalangi) of Prof SRJ singing this varNam - I assume the accompanying singers are Ashwin/Rohin...
http://rapidshare.de/files/20113234/01. ... i.mp3.html
THANKS RAMJI!
Ravi
The 5th and last song in this zip file,
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sundaram ... 202004.zip
is a 18 min Sudha Madhurya Bashini.
Who is the singer accompanying Sudha Ragunathan?
Is it her disciple Sangeetha Swaminathan?
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/sundaram ... 202004.zip
is a 18 min Sudha Madhurya Bashini.
Who is the singer accompanying Sudha Ragunathan?
Is it her disciple Sangeetha Swaminathan?
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
Is this ragam really janya of Kalyani?
It sounds a bit like ragam Saraswathi also-wouldn't it be under Vachaspathi??
It sounds a bit like ragam Saraswathi also-wouldn't it be under Vachaspathi??
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
The only difference between Vachaspati and Kalyani is the Ni. V has N2, and K, N3.
This raga, being without the Ni, may be classified as a Janya of either (both).
This raga, being without the Ni, may be classified as a Janya of either (both).
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
Based on first rAgA principle, it would be vacaspati. But vacaspati might not have gotten attention in this case as a prominent rAgA then? Also an absent Ni would put it under vacaspati as N2 is not a significant position in a M2 driven rAgA.
oh well, this janya concept is a cataloging concept to preserve oral memory so, people can remember what this rAgA might have been made of, should this be forgotten and all of internet vanishes!
oh well, this janya concept is a cataloging concept to preserve oral memory so, people can remember what this rAgA might have been made of, should this be forgotten and all of internet vanishes!
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
This scale can be said to be the prati-madhyama version of Suddha Saveri. The scale is immediately understood.
The first raga “principle” - just a rumor ! It’s ok to follow it, but it’s not an established convention.
It is more efficient to say a raga is a janya of Kalyani. Most people know Kalyani, but far fewer people know Vachaspati. But that’s an advantage over the first raga principle.
But as a matter of fact, the raga is equally a janya of both because there is in general no real relationship between janyas and melas beyond the scales.
The first raga “principle” - just a rumor ! It’s ok to follow it, but it’s not an established convention.
It is more efficient to say a raga is a janya of Kalyani. Most people know Kalyani, but far fewer people know Vachaspati. But that’s an advantage over the first raga principle.
But as a matter of fact, the raga is equally a janya of both because there is in general no real relationship between janyas and melas beyond the scales.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
Well that rule is used to explain mOhanam from Harikambodhi etc. and this was stated by SrI T.K Govinda Rao in a symposium @ Cleveland - about year 2000 or so. But priority could be given to prominent rAgAs and suddha madyama ones. And of course vivadis would be shunned even where applicable.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
Explain Mohanam from Harikambhoji? You mean explain the relationship of the MohanAm scale to Harikambhoji ? But it’s not because of the rule, but because it is true! It’s an elementary fact, so what was the point of bringing it to a symposium? Was it about the first raga “principle?”shankarank wrote: ↑17 Aug 2020, 11:21 Well that rule is used to explain mOhanam from Harikambodhi etc. and this was stated by SrI T.K Govinda Rao in a symposium @ Cleveland - about year 2000 or so. But priority could be given to prominent rAgAs and suddha madyama ones.
Mohanam is also said to be a janya of Shankarabharanam and Kalyani . You must have heard that. Now, this is rarely expressed, but it is also a janya of Vachaspati. But of course, V is the least well-known of the four.
Gambheeranattai is said to be a janya of Chalanattai, while it could be said to be a janya of either Mayamalavagowla or Shankarabharanam.And of course vivadis would be shunned even where applicable.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
For Mohanam, I have not heard SankarAbharaNam mentioned , but one musician made a case for reassigning it to KalyANi. Which means it was just assigned to Harikambodhi being just the first raga in sequence that qualifies.
As regards the gambeeranATA assigned to chalanAtA , I believe that is a remnant of asampURNA mela system where vivadi is "managed". GambIra nATTai being a mallari rAga has a longer history than the sampURNa mElam. We will need more stronger example.
As regards the gambeeranATA assigned to chalanAtA , I believe that is a remnant of asampURNA mela system where vivadi is "managed". GambIra nATTai being a mallari rAga has a longer history than the sampURNa mElam. We will need more stronger example.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
!!!!!!!!
You keep citing vague examples with no particulars.but one musician made a case for reassigning it to KalyANi.
[/quote]As regards the gambeeranATA assigned to chalanAtA , I believe that is a remnant of asampURNA mela system where vivadi is "managed". GambIra nATTai being a mallari rAga has a longer history than the sampURNa mElam. We will need more stronger example.
A stronger example for what purpose?
Managing a vivadi has nothing to do with this classification. Gambheera Nattai has no vivadi swaras.
There is no agreement in carnatic music on even what a melakarta is, sampoorna or asampoorna.. you are being dogmatic over something that was invented probably about twenty ago if I am not mistaken. It is just an artificial system and the first raga idea is just that - an idea. You can use it, if it is convenient for you. But if you insist that the other possibilities are not janakas to a particular janya, well, it’s your loss - in breadth of perspective.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
I am not being dogmatic about first rAga! It is a reason given out, and it must have been said before so people passed it on. Don't think it was just pulled out of thin air 20 years ago.
As regards vivadi being parent, just checked rEvagupti. It is classified in publications as janya of 15 - mayamalava Gaula, not gayakapriya or vakulabharaNam. So when it comes to vivadi, the first ragam rule does not apply looks like.
ChalanATA of the old asampURna system is a harbinger of nATa - a tAnam worthy rAga. In the sampURNa system I believe, they were actually trying to create "rAgams" not just note sequences.
Hence people would not have thought of it as vivadi, since it was handled in prayOgams. The classification of gambhira nATA then would have been there since asampUrna times and later into sampUrna when that becomes a full vivAdi mela.
As regards vivadi being parent, just checked rEvagupti. It is classified in publications as janya of 15 - mayamalava Gaula, not gayakapriya or vakulabharaNam. So when it comes to vivadi, the first ragam rule does not apply looks like.
ChalanATA of the old asampURna system is a harbinger of nATa - a tAnam worthy rAga. In the sampURNa system I believe, they were actually trying to create "rAgams" not just note sequences.
Hence people would not have thought of it as vivadi, since it was handled in prayOgams. The classification of gambhira nATA then would have been there since asampUrna times and later into sampUrna when that becomes a full vivAdi mela.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
Ok.. Then are you willing to say that Mohanam is a janya of Shankarabharanam?
Are you willing to say that it is a equally janya of Vachaspati or KAlyani?
Are you willing to say that you like the first raga principle and you choose to follow it for the sake of consistency or for any other reason of your own, and that other people may not follow it and they aren’t wrong?
If you are able to answer “yes” to yourself, in your heart, to all three questions (really the third, the other two are just examples), then you are not being dogmatic about it.
I’m not asking you to tell us out loud.
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Re: VandanaDhAriNi
If you want to know what I will agree or accept, I don't see much value in janaka-janya relation based on what those words actually imply, given the way the rAgAs have been classified. My stand is, if it is for cataloging, any one works better than the other.
As a samparadaya, from two distinct sources I was given Harikambodhi as parent of Mohanam. When pressed for reasoning the first raga as a convention ( if you think rule sounds dogmatic!) was cited.
Gurus, when introducing a rAgA to a student, will mostly uniformly cite one of the melas as parent for any janya rAga, as that is how the sampradaya is. What else could be technically valid is a separate issue.
As a samparadaya, from two distinct sources I was given Harikambodhi as parent of Mohanam. When pressed for reasoning the first raga as a convention ( if you think rule sounds dogmatic!) was cited.
Gurus, when introducing a rAgA to a student, will mostly uniformly cite one of the melas as parent for any janya rAga, as that is how the sampradaya is. What else could be technically valid is a separate issue.