Swara Identification Exercises, Vocal: Post Answers Here

To teach and learn Indian classical music
arasi
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Post by arasi »

You mean his?!!
Last edited by arasi on 19 Sep 2007, 07:21, edited 1 time in total.

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

Now having done this exercise I'm pondering...

Why is it easier for me to decipher the swaras in an composition (even when it is new and heard for the first time) than in alapana.
I can play almost immediately (if not perfectly)
May be because of the structure of the kriti, melody, tala?

There is more randomness in alapana. So it is harder to reproduce what is sung.
(I am talking more for the inexperienced like me)

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Perhaps you were able to remember the different fragments better in a krithi as they have words/syllables associated? : vA tA pi ga Na pa tim vs ta da ri na na na na :) ?

Arun

Vikram_Sampath79
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Post by Vikram_Sampath79 »

Have been following this thread with great interest past few days. It is truly a very enriching process and hats off to everyone involved. The second clip was very short and after hearing it 2-3 times it felt it was Bhairavi. The uttaranga sancharas of the ragas not being there--esp the absence of Ni --gave some doubt. So my answers would be the following, and i may be completely off the mark !;)
A) BHairavi
B) Da Pa Ma Ri Ga ~Ma Pa Da Pa Pa
Da Pa --Ma Ga Ma Ga-- Ma Pa Da Ma Ga Ri Sa.
(for the second phrase for a while it felt it was Ma Ri Ma Ri..till i fixed the shruti. )
C) The Shruti is "C" or 1 kattai.
The main gamaka would be to Ga and Ma. Usually in Bhairavi if we reach up to Pa we give gamaka to only Ga and if the sanchara reaches up to Da then both Ga and Ma get a gamaka.

Eagerly await the answers and more importantly discussions from others! :)
Last edited by Vikram_Sampath79 on 20 Sep 2007, 02:05, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Thanks vikram for your participation. Though most of the logic is subconscious, be it right or wrong it will be very helpful to others if you can 'think loud' as to how you arrived at your answer.
For example how did you ascertain the absence of the nishadam?

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

As soon as I heard I thought it is mukhari
I can hear RM RM instead of GM since G is absent in arohana.
I will give a try again though.
MPDMGRS ending is correct

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Yes it is difficult to distinguish bhairavi from mukhari without sanchaaram in uttaranga!

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

cmlover wrote:Yes it is difficult to distinguish bhairavi from mukhari without sanchaaram in uttaranga!
Wouldn't pUrvAnga be enough to identify mUkhari from bHairavi? Or is it a clue you are giving me :)

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

No clues at all! Just a generic discussion of the raga lakshana! The phrases as well as the gamakam on nishadam will help to discriminate. That is why I asked Vikram to explain why he thought nishadam is missing !

Vikram_Sampath79
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Post by Vikram_Sampath79 »

How i approached this was in the followng manner:

1) Hear the clip a couple of times to be able to identify the raga first, which is what is the first step in this exercise anyway. Now in my view, ability to recognise a raga with just a flash of it being presented (like in this clip) is related to how much of that raga one has heard, learnt-- kritis/alapanais/pidis/sancharas. Since my learning had been more skewed towards Bhairavi than Mukhari (havent seriously learnt too much of Mukkari), for me it was an instant--Oh this IS bhairavi. Of course then the analytical part of ur brain takes over and u start questioning ur instinct--is this really bhairavi? could it be others that sound similar--mukhari, maanji, huseini..so many of them which have subtle differences among them. And the bhairavi-mukhari confusion ALWAYS exists i guess?:)
Generally of the alapanais or kritis ive heard of Mukhari the "distinct" phrases involving combination SRMP and NDS which set mukhari apart from Bhairavi are used right in the beginning to offset confusion. Here since the clip was too short, that was not forthcoming i thought. May be including atleast 4-5 phrases might become necessary moving forward?

2) Once this was done, i pictured those swaras where the singer was stressing more and which were quite obvious--like the MRGa ~ (with a gamaka to Ga) and the ending MPDMGRS (with gamaka to M and G and something which Suji Ram also thought was obvious!) . yeah the confusion he had with MR MR did arise but then to get that off i used my shruti box and once i set the scale to that of the singer which was C, and actually sang the phrase myself, i thought it became clearer that it was MG MG. May be thats why Arun insisted on finding the shruti too and i guess it is v important in this exercise. thoughts??

Regarding cmlover's question abt how i managed to determine the absence of Ni--really dont know how to put it in words!! how does one tell HOW to know what is there or what is not there?? after all instinct (right or wrong--immaterial!) and musical sense does prevail after a certain point, right? Just that i felt and knew that the "sound" of Nishadam was absent :) Somewhere the balance of science and art tilts in favour of the art i guess and thats why it is a fine art rather a Physics or Maths?

Would love to hear other's thought processes here!

~Vikram.
Last edited by Vikram_Sampath79 on 20 Sep 2007, 12:43, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

very nice vikram!
You have displayed the same elegance and clarity that is evident in your 'review' writing.
Yes this is an art as against hard science where 'intuition' plays a large part.
Your suggestion of using the aid of the shruti box to assess the 'kaTTai' (ramakriya will excuse me :) ) is excellent.
Again getting some key phrases pat is very helpful like the MPDMGRS

I am still intrigued by your inference on the absence of the nishadam.
I wonder whether you have a comment on the dhaivatam since both the shudda and chatushruti are used in Bhairavi (granting your answer is correct and of course that will not discriminate from mukhari :)

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

cmlover wrote:I wonder whether you have a comment on the dhaivatam since both the shudda and chatushruti are used in Bhairavi :)
It is D1 shudda in this piece which is used in descent. Ascending D is D2-catuSruti

And offcourse if ND(D2) is used in ascent then it is mukhari
Last edited by Suji Ram on 20 Sep 2007, 22:34, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

thanks suji
I guess it is always shuddha in avarohana thouugh that is not maintained in viribhoni (see ciTTa svaram both ND and ND* are used..)

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

cmlover wrote:thanks suji
I guess it is always shuddha in avarohana thouugh that is not maintained in viribhoni (see ciTTa svaram both ND and ND* are used..)
I cannot recollect that.
I have to re-learn this varnam. I wonder how I learnt it before when my teacher taught it- that time I did not pay so much attention as I do now. It is more difficult to learn now when I hear it.
Last edited by Suji Ram on 20 Sep 2007, 23:30, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Sample 3.

For some reason I had more trouble with the swara breakdown for this so I am least sure of my answers. I dont know how to label i.e. which is part of gamaka and which is not. The previous two - I have learnt varnams and so that could be why I had a easier time.

Raga: Bhairavi
Structure: S R2 G2 M1 P D2* N2 S
S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S
(i think some say S G2 R2 G2 M1 for arohana? Anyway R2 G2 M1 in poorvanga)

In this sample, from what I could tell ,neither D2 nor N2 figure. For D2 to figure, I think you would need pdn.

Swara Breakdown:

Code: Select all

d => d1 below.

(m)/p p mg g~ m/p/d(p) p p ,   (?)/p p m~ p p/d(p) m g(r) r s,

m~ => m , g/m , 
? => startin point of slide of slide to pa. I think it is from ri but not sure. 
Could be sa. It is lower than the slide for the very first pa.

or (simpler)

p p m g~ m/p/d p p ,    p p m~ p pd m g r s

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Ah i see my first swara itself is wrong. Nice start ;)

arunk
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Post by arunk »

mukhari vs. bhairavi. In pUrvanga you do have srm in mukhari and thus the absence of "ga" (which is important I think in bhairavi). But still the differences are clearer in the uttaranga. I think for me the most identifiable is p-n (and nds) combination in mukhari, but the p-d*-n-n (or p-d*-n-s) in bhairavi - i.e in uttaranga.
Last edited by arunk on 21 Sep 2007, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

To me, the sound of ni as in bhairavi (particular ni-ni or n-d) is fairly well etched but only the "madya stayi" one :) - i.e. I can recognize it fairly instantly in madya stayi but may be not as easily in mandra stayi. The same how d2 sounds in pd*n - fairly well registered. Neither of those were recognizable here. Thus no ni, no d2.

I also am familiar with the aural flavor of pdp (with d1).
Last edited by arunk on 21 Sep 2007, 00:23, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

I have never had any problem discriminating bhairavi in the mantra sanchaarams. Maybe again due to the dominance of the uttaranga. Could you confirm whether mukhari is also a tri sthayi raga?
I have been spoiled by the highs in mukhari of Musiri :)

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

arunk wrote:To me, the sound of ni as in bhairavi (particular ni-ni or n-d) is fairly well etched but only the "madya stayi" one :) - i.e. I can recognize it fairly instantly in madya stayi but may be not as easily in mandra stayi.
??
ViribOni starts at mandara as S, RND and also yArO ivar yArO

arunk
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Post by arunk »

i meant that how those phrases sound in madya stayi are more prominently etched in my brain compared to the same in madya stayi. Like most people I used to confused by bhairavi and mukhari for quite a while. Nowadays I am much better. For example, in this case I never had doubts that it could be mukhari.

I dont know about tri-stayi - I think mukhari does go into mandra stayi but may be not as much as bhairavi?

Also could that "ri" is maybe more important in mukhari than in bhairavi?

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Suji Ram wrote:
arunk wrote:To me, the sound of ni as in bhairavi (particular ni-ni or n-d) is fairly well etched but only the "madya stayi" one :) - i.e. I can recognize it fairly instantly in madya stayi but may be not as easily in mandra stayi.
??
ViribOni starts at mandara as S, RND and also yArO ivar yArO
I meant the n~ n~ d . Again I only meant which parts of bhairavi are most prominent to my perception. Its not like I wont recognize them in mandra (or that they dont exist!)

Arun

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Viribhoni starts at mantra nishaadam

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

cmlover wrote:Viribhoni starts at mantra nishaadam
yes, the sahitya...after aaaa...(SRND)

Vikram_Sampath79
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Post by Vikram_Sampath79 »

cmlover wrote:very nice vikram!
You have displayed the same elegance and clarity that is evident in your 'review' writing.
Yes this is an art as against hard science where 'intuition' plays a large part.
Your suggestion of using the aid of the shruti box to assess the 'kaTTai' (ramakriya will excuse me :) ) is excellent.
Again getting some key phrases pat is very helpful like the MPDMGRS

I am still intrigued by your inference on the absence of the nishadam.
I wonder whether you have a comment on the dhaivatam since both the shudda and chatushruti are used in Bhairavi (granting your answer is correct and of course that will not discriminate from mukhari :)
Hey thanks cmlover :) pleasantly surprised to note that you still remember that "review" and a little heat it generated in the forum !!:P

you are right abt the chittaswaram of Viriboni--atleast the version i have learnt goes like-
;;;;GGRS-RSNN-DNSR || mmppdd(d1 d1) nn|| PPPDDDNNNSSR||
PdnsRGMP||DPMD-P-NNNDD(D1D1)P-PMND(1)||NPD(1)N-MPDN-SRND-MGRS
RNSR|| RG-M PDMP, DNS||N R-S-NDS,,ND(1)P-P,,M||GRS,,,rnd

only the boldened version had shuddha dhaivatam in a arohana sancharam. rest goes as per the normal syntax.

cmlover, im still at a loss abt the Ni-explanation!:) WHy not try something like this--after u ascertain the base shadjam or the shruti, first sing the 12 notes in the ascending order from S R1, R2.....N2, N3 and Tara Sa. Then sing them in the same ascending order in akaram. May be then the "sound" of each sits in our mind. Just after doing this if we hear the clip again and hum for ourselves the phrase at the same shruti, the presence or absence of a note MIGHT become a little more obvious.
I know that even getting to do the akaram of the 12 notes in quick succession or in many speeds is tough to begin with...but dont know if any other method exists!

Vikram_Sampath79
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Post by Vikram_Sampath79 »

As an aside--i had the good fortune of having the respected and tremendously knowledgeable Akella Mallikarjuna Sharma ji --(who is the Forum's in-house teacher as he is to many many aspirants) stay at my place for a couple of days and guide me. He mentioned an exercise which could perhaps help all of us to increase swara gnanam that is the topic of discussion here.

Of the 72 melas, he suggested taking away those that had Vivadi Ragas(employing R3, G1, D3 and N1) --chakras 1, 6, 7 and 12 --viz Indu, Ritu, Rishi, Aditya disappear!! of the remaining 8 Chakras again omitting the vivadi ragas, we are left with a total of 32 Non Vibadi Ragas (16 from the Shuddha Ma and 16 from Prati Ma). He suggested that in the akara sadagam that should be done everyday, choose the first raga of the Ma1 group's first non vivadi chakra and the last raga from the last non vivadi chakra. For eg.

Day 1: Netra Chakra-Mela 8--Hanuma Todi and Dishi Chakra--Mela 65 Mechakalyani
Day 2: Netra--mela 9- Dhenuka and Dishi--mela -64--Vachaspati.
Day 3: Netra-mela 10--Natakapriya and Dishi--Mela 63--Latangi and so on and so forth

So in a day's akara sadagam saralais, Jantis, alankarams in Ma1 raga and Ma2 raga ensures that each day we have practised all the 12 notes and at the same time different combinations R1-G2, R2-G3 and so on...So the entire non vivadi set can be completed in 16 days. He also suggested doing this with a metronome and noting downt he speed of ur akaram and gradually increase it so that voice flexibility and adaptability to different combinations can be enhanced ! I thought it was the most brilliant way of getting our "intuition" started abt where and how each note sits in itself and relative to other notes!:)

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Indeed a beautifully constructed scheme. But this would be more for people serious in performing music. (although one may have a point if they say what we dabblers are aspiring for is something that is the domain of "serious performers/learners").

I love to make more time for this. Right now I am struggling to make time to keep up with what I learnt in one class. That is indeed a poor excuse - but at my age, this is just an hobby - the most exciting hobby I have ever taken.

Arun

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

Arun, you are definitely inspiring me to take it more seriously from where I left!

-Ramakriya

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Thanks Vikram for the suggestions. Let me first get my voice-box tuned which is not so easy as tuniing the shruti-box :)
Thanks also for sharing the tips of Sarmaji who is a great teacher often breaking orthodox ruless with his experience and scientific insight.

Of course I can make a graphical plot of the frequency and check visually a particular svara occurs or not. But that is cheating and hearing with your eyes :)
Yet another would be to play the melody one the keyboard and check for its presence. Then one would be hearing with his fingers :)

arunk
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Post by arunk »

thanks ramakriya. You should!

I think anyone who is crazy about cm and "wants to know more" should just go ahead and starting learning if the opportunity is there (right teacher, willing to teach adults starting from beginning etc.).

If you weigh against your desire to know more, neither age nor shyness/insecurity/fear would turn out to be a valid excuse. Besides, you can do it for your own personal satisfaction - not training to be a semi-pro or pro.

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

arunk wrote:I think anyone who is crazy about cm and "wants to know more" should just go ahead and starting learning if the opportunity is there (right teacher, willing to teach adults starting from beginning etc.).
.
Wish I could learn from a teacher...
There is something satisfying about self-study with all its imperfections though.
The forum itself has taught me quite a bit. Offcourse with basic lessons I learnt long ago it is easier.

CML,
One thing to ponder about sruti though. In CM each artist-vocalist, instrument, male, female - have different Srutis. Inspite of that we are still able to get hold of the base "Sa Pa "and start from there. Can't think about other music system where this happens.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

yep - self-study has its own charm too.

I agree that we can figure out notes once sruthi is established even if its 1.25 or 5.6 :) . In western world, there is the concept of "absolute pitch" - supposedly they hear any note on its own they can tell you if it is C, C#, D etc. But are they in reality able to identify only specific pitches (and their multiples as in octaves) since for all (reasonably tuned) instruments C would be very specific value for a given octave - narrow margin of deviation. Can they do it for arbitrary tonics? My colleague is less sure about this but he thinks many can tell between which two western keys what you sing lies.

You know - I never had trouble discerning sruthi in a concert. But happened recently at a BMK jugalbandi concert. The musicians actually switched sruthi before this song and started. I was convinced it was suddha-dhanyasi during a many minute alapana. The he started "sAmavajavaragama" :)

Arun

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

I was convinced it was suddha-dhanyasi during a many minute alapana. The he started "sAmavajavaragama
In spite of the single note difference there is amountain of difference between Hindolam and Sud dhanyasi. Perhaps BMK was doing some tricks :)

ramakriya
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Post by ramakriya »

cmlover wrote:
I was convinced it was suddha-dhanyasi during a many minute alapana. The he started "sAmavajavaragama
In spite of the single note difference there is amountain of difference between Hindolam and Sud dhanyasi. Perhaps BMK was doing some tricks :)
cml,

The point Arun was making was that he latched on to the wrong AdhAra shaDja ! :)

The fact was he they were singing Hindola all the time, and they must have tuned the tamboora to m-s-s-s (as they do in Hindustani). This must have made Arun to fix the AdhAra ShaDja on madhyama - and that is how he heard Shuddha dhanyAsi.

-Ramakriya

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Ha!
shrutibhedam on the madhyamam! Flash!!
Thanks ramakriya!
Glad he did not get too 'high' to have ended up with madhyamavati :)

shadjam
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Post by shadjam »

Here is my interpretation of Sample 3:

Da Pa Ma Ga Ri Ga - There is a subtle Ga between Ma and Ri

Ma Pa Da Pa Pa

Da Pa Ga.. Ga.. – I don’t think there is any madhyamam explicitly sung in this. It is only gandharam with some gamakam which touches madhyamam while singing.

Ma Pa Ma Ga Ri Ri Sa – There is no explicit dhaivatam (even though it is touched slightly). I think there is also a second rishabam before the ending shadjam (like in jantai swarams)

Looking forward to your comments!

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Time to give the 'answer'.
Let me first congratulate vikram for the 100% accuracy!
It is bhairavi and certainly not mukhari :)
The shruti is C
The phrase is
D P M R ~G...~M P D P P... D P ~M G M G ~M P D M G R S

Here is the actual svara sung by the 'artiste' himself!
http://www.mediafire.com/?atdhved1jdn
Of course the aalaapana tends to slur in comparison with the actual note enunciation!

Vikram appears to have the right technique though most of it comes through intuition and practice. I would love him to share more of it with us.

All of us seem to have done quite well and all that is required is fine tuning.

Do we want more of these shorties with confirmatory answer ?

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Do we want more of these shorties with confirmatory answer ?
Yes please. Definitely. Once we get going and get comfortable, you can post in batches of 2 or 3 if you have a lot of such things in hand.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

western world, there is the concept of "absolute pitch" - supposedly they hear any note on its own they can tell you if it is C, C#, D etc.
It is not quite common for people to have the sense of absolute pitch as far as a single note is concerned. Most western musicians are still 'relative pitch'ers in the sense that they can place the note once it is sounded in relation to the key. ( there are of course exceptions to this, I am referring to the 90% in the middle of the normal curve ). Of course, what is uncommon is tuning the key to any arbitary frequency which is potentially possible with CM.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

cmlover - who is the artiste?

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

It sounded like BMK...

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

BMK sishya. Name not known!
The shruti is just solid!

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

Sample #4
This is a lovely rAga. One really need not know anything about swaras to identify it.
Answer is naata (-SCRAMBLED :) ) Clue -50 paise
However I cannot really notate the phrases since it has beautiful slurs- touching nearby swaras at a time. N2 and N3 are present.
I will be able to play it more than notate it.

Nevertheless tried it.

S R2 G2 /G3 M1 PD2 N2/N3 S`

N2 is dominant here when with P & D, for eg NP, ND, PND , PDN,
but N3 comes with S` like PDNS`R`, S`NS`

N2 is also the stopping point I guess
PR`S` is used in initial phrase of this raga often.

I spotted G3 while ascending in the last phrase but one cannot say what swara really comes there.
I have used lower case swara to denote a touch preceeding the main swara.

ta da ri na na na, a a a a a na ~ ~
pM P R` S` S` S`, pN3 S`N3 S`N3 S`N2~~ (N2= ndndn-gamaka)

ta da na… na a a a a na
N2 D N2~ s`N2 P D N3 S` R` S` N2d P


na a a na na
P D N2~ P P

ta da na a na..
M P M PRMR

a a a na na naaa
sRG3MPN2P PN2N2,,P
Last edited by Suji Ram on 23 Sep 2007, 23:42, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Suji!
Answer is naata (-SCRAMBLED ) Clue -50 paise
athu thaana Sonnathu (Is that what you said :)
You are getting into the famous territory of our quiz master :)
I hope we never get into argument about the parent or structure of this 'mongrel' raga :)
Instead of your 'mind' let your fingers do the talking here :)
would love to hear you play the phrases! oblige !

Vikram_Sampath79
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Post by Vikram_Sampath79 »

:Dnice scrambled clue that was...but yeah Athana is too obvious to be missed especially with such oft heard kritis like "Ela nee daya radu" or "Sakala Graha Bala' and "Nee Irangai" with typical Athana sancharams.

Oh this wasnt BMK is it? the voice seemed just like his...who IS this singer? has such an indelible imprint of his teacher!

ok my take on the swarams --

MPRSS (MPRS is i think the MOST common phrase with which athana starts!)
SNRS, NS Da....Da...Da...(rested at Dha during 5-7 secs range)
NDN...NSRMRS Pa (again NSRMS is a typical sancharam)
PD-DNPP-MP MP-PMGMG (gamakam on Ma)
GMPa..Pa..PNPP-PDDNP


Hope to see more interesting posts !!

~Vikram

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

vikram
I really do not know the singer since I got this from a friend Music Teacher!

Now you should resolve with Suji your differences :)

You have not commented on the stinginess of gaandharam and the plethora of mEl sthAyi :)

Vikram_Sampath79
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Post by Vikram_Sampath79 »

cmlover.

Aah...resolving the differences would the toughest part of the game i guess!! ;)

Dont u think by the very construct of the raga, there is inherent stinginess in the use of the Gandhara? SRMPNS--SNSDa....(more of a kampita) PMP G(with one big gamaka!!) MRS It just makes a brief presence in avarohana, so may during the descent the usage might be there?? just guessing.

And the raga sparkles more in the mel sthayi and thats why the plethora of usage there.

What would your take be on the flavour of the raga itself? It is always said to convey a certain majestic feel or gambhiryam coupled with Vira rasa. Though Sivan's Nee Irangadenil seems to be some exception--though even there it is not pleading but a certain command even in beseeching for mercy! Did someone get the same feeling hearing even this short 20 secs clip--authority, command and confidence ???!:)

arvindt
Posts: 78
Joined: 04 Jan 2007, 09:35

Post by arvindt »

Some songs certainly seem to convey Vira Rasa, but I also feel the raga has multiple "modes" or "moods" in which it can be rendered. Certainly the typical mode of rendering seems to be vira rasa, exemplified by the strong gamakam around the dhaivata in descent, but if you hear Muktamma's rendition of E Papamu:

http://www.sangeethapriya.org/Downloads ... ack_08.mp3

The kriti seems to evoke more soukhyam and a feeling of quiet anguish, at least for me (the alapana itself seems to have more vira rasa). I don't know if it's the kriti itself, or the chitravina accompaniment, which gives me the feeling.
Last edited by arvindt on 23 Sep 2007, 21:13, edited 1 time in total.

Suji Ram
Posts: 1529
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

cmlover wrote:Suji!
Answer is naata (-SCRAMBLED ) Clue -50 paise
athu thaana Sonnathu (Is that what you said :)
You are getting into the famous territory of our quiz master :)
I hope we never get into argument about the parent or structure of this 'mongrel' raga :)
Instead of your 'mind' let your fingers do the talking here :)
would love to hear you play the phrases! oblige !
Yes! adAna>aThAna :)
And no arguments of this raga. Didn't we have a long discussion running into several pages somewhere?
This isn't straightforward at all and a tough one for beginners
I thought I will stay away from the forum for next 9 months (Fall quarter starting this week), but could not resist this one

I will give a try later maybe.

Vikram, I expected your answer too and I knew we would differ! Nice learning process.
Agreed MPRSS is how the start is. It is rather a slur pMPRS`S`. I have changed that in my post.
And the D region is tricky too, often going pdN or ND, ND gamaka.
My expertise is just a few kritis(not aTAna) I have learnt. J

ust DRS's SArada bhujanga stOstra for aTAna- CML remember?
Last edited by Suji Ram on 23 Sep 2007, 23:03, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
Posts: 3424
Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41

Post by arunk »

Raga aTANA.

Code: Select all

1) ta da ri na na ( na .  ) .  a      na
   m^ p  r' s' s'   s' n*   s' s' \d~ d~     

2) ta da na .    ( na . . . . )   na .   
   d^ p  p, /d   ( p  d s r s )  (n  d)  p,

3) na . .  na na
   p  d n, p  p

4) ta da na .  na   /
   m  p  p  /d m  r /m

5) ( a . ) . na  na  a     .
     m p   d p/d p/d /n    p

Legend:
^ => emphasis
n  => n2
n* => n3 
\d => slow slide from sa to da which hovers around n3 to emphasize 
that pitch area - very characteristic of gamaka on da for the raga.
Its possible that the n* occurence there is really a quicker form of that slide to da that requires N3 flavor. But n3 is used in some forms of aTANA.

Process:
1. Identify the raga. In this case I was a bit familiar with the gamakas of certain swaras (although anuswaras I may be mistaken)
2. I think in my process when I see a phrase going up or down (so identifying that is there which is usually easy unless it is zig-zag and done fast). I look to see how many swaras are there in the phrase, and try to identify the pitch of the end points. I use this often against raga structure (if I know it) to construct the intermediate and then sing it to see if it matches what I hear. If I dont know raga structure, I sometimes go my mela
3. Tying to #2: Most of the time I always use prominent stopping points as reference point (e.g. if one arrives there by descent then I know swaras leading to it are higher).

Arun

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