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RSR
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#1 moderator

Post by RSR »

I understand that 'vasanthakokilam' is the moderator. If, so, here are a few suggestions to him. 1) If scripts other than english are not allowed in general discussion, the section title should read "general discussion..english only'. 2) there are better transliteration schemes..official. We can transliterate without those tools. 3) whenever a reply or comment on a topic is posted, a mail can be sent to inform the participant. as is done in so many forum sites. 4) there should be a section where 'beginners' can post their queries about ragam and other information. 5) If a query related to the subject is not answered within a month, rasikas.org does not serve its purpose. .6) Recently read pages and pages on smt.m.s.subbulakshmi. Dismayed to find just 'mamas' and 'mamis' stuff. and very little about her music of olden days. Mostly family gossip. Posts should be published only after the moderator allows it.

arasi
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#2 Re: moderator

Post by arasi »

Here at Rasikas.org...
-------------------------

Take it from me, young person--
A generic MAmi I am not--uh, MAmAs
Have also made the grade, I'm glad!

Anyhow, there are us, pATTis and thAthAs too
The ones before us pounded betel nuts, leaves
In mini cast iron mortars, to chew with their gums

Not us! We do our tiNNaip pEchu* on line
Our grand kids helping us out at times
Basic as our skills (?) are in technology

Why this intolerance with our lot?
Isn't CM much more ancient than us?
We are babes compared to those times!

Have you looked through many threads?
Leave my sort alone--look at the bulk
Of material on CM from the old--amazing!

See those quick fetchers of facts, insights
On CM! MAmAs, mAmis, thAthAs, pATTis
Along with brilliant young lovers of CM!

Every generation counts--CM, thank the gods,
Flourishes more with families carrying it on
With their coming generations, its future bright

As sans Vasanthakokilam, a young mAmA, I admit,
And other old moderators, young srkris, the beacon
Cannot cater to you and to the future generations :(


*tiNNaip pEchu--can both be idle talk and profound exchanges of thoughts :)

vasanthakokilam
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#3 Re: moderator

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Arasi, :) Thanks. You have made many of the points I wanted to make.

RSR, good feedback. Just to be sure, we are only moderators. There is an Admin, srkris, who has super powers that we do not have :)

The goals and objectives of the forum do not quite align with some of what you are saying but there are others we can try to implement.

This site is intended as a member (rasika) driven site with as minimal an intervention as possible by the moderators. Moderators for the most part play a janitorial role: Cleaning things up where necessary, moving things here and there and locking the doors at times etc.

I have already written about the current forum practice on transliteration. We will leave it at that for now. You probably found it unpleasant that you got a response from me and a few others instructing you to post a transliteration. Do not take that personally. That is more of an FYI nature since new members would not know about them.

If you are interested in championing a change or convincing people to use a different transliteration scheme please go ahead. You can start a discussion and see if you get any traction. There are members here with expertise in that area who can offer feedback on your ideas. The Admin can then take a look.

As per item 3, it is a forum software feature that can be enabled. I will let the Admin look into it.

Item 4: Great idea. Something we should look into
In addition, I also think it is very hard for anyone to find the good posts of the forum. There is a lot of chatter and in between there are many nuggets of gold. I proposed a while back that members post links to 'Posts of Distinction' and we can collect them in one place. That has not found much traction. We will have to find a better way to organize it.

Item 5: There is no obligation for any queries to be answered. It is all up to the members. While your specific queries may not have been answered, you can see the quality and promptness of responses to Sahitya related queries in the Sahitya section. You have the best resource in the entire web for CM sahitya here, Sri. Lakshmanji, who answers questions on them as quickly as he can. Consider that a blessing.

Item 6: Welcome to the club!! While that thread is as bad as you describe correctly, there are other threads on MSS ( you can try the search feature) where there have been some profound discussions over the years.

Again, thanks for writing a few lines of feedback. Much appreciated.

(I will move this to the Forum Section in a few days)

RSR
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#4 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

arasi.....i am not a young person but a 'veteran'.. ...75 now and exposed to choicest light classical of MS from age 4. I have read some of your posts on Barathi which would have been more readable if it had been in thamizh script.
Every body of the older generation ( quoting MLV) would agree that the golden period of Carnatic classical was between 1930 to 1960. Personalities do not count. In fact, it may be a good idea to make all posts 'anonymous' so that 'big names' do not influence our response. .... The forum , I suppose is meant for promotion of great things in Carnatic music. and definitely not 'self-promotion' or promotion of wards and protegees. and less talk about 'self' the better Personal reminiscences may be placed in a free website and link given. for people who may be intersted in such things. I came to this forum to gain from the expert knowledge of real rasikas of classical music and get clarification of doubts about ragams. Not much useful.

Nick H
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#5 Re: moderator

Post by Nick H »

The forum is meant as a discussion place. Without checking the actual definition, I believe that that is what "forum" means. Discussion, albeit anchored by the fact that members are only here because of a shared interest in carnatic music, may be about anything, and from any point of view. Mostly we are a happy crowd, but it can even be acrimonious at times!

But I think there is one thing were we will agree without acrimony: we come here to discuss and talk each day as we choose. We are free to promote ourselves, our opinions, etc etc etc. We do what we have been doing for many years. All are welcome (it's free too!) to join us. But those who want something else should go somewhere else.

VK RAMAN
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#6 Re: moderator

Post by VK RAMAN »

If RSR wants to transliterate in Tamil some of the posts in Tamil, you are welcome to do that using some app. This is basically a forum in English.

RSR
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#7 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

vasanthakokilam-> thank you for accepting three of the five points. .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vasanthakokilam-> Yes Sir. I have got help from Lakshman Sir, occasionally , outside rasikas. However, I wish to make a point . rsankar asked me what will be my reaction if I see a post which I cannot read . say in a script like Russian or Arabic.or even Bengali. What can be done? just go to another post which I can read. ..Most of the Carnatic music compositions are in Telugu , Sanskrit , Kannadam and rarely in thamizh or malayalam. The Trinity used Telugu and Sanskrit while Purandharadasa sang in Kannadam. If the reader's query is about Ragam, it is reasonable to expect him to give link to the audio. .I have tried that with a few and asked them to give the lyrics from what they hear. They were just tamil songs ( classical) of olden days and I got atrocious texts in english transliteration from which it is near impossible to reconstruct the tamil song!) It is thus not so simple, even in mother tongue. If so , how much more unreliable in non-mother tongue? I would venture to suggest that only people who know the language and its script should attempt. There are many sites maintained by dedicated souls who have spent decades in providing script for the songs of the Trinity and of Purandharadasa.. with meaning in all the southern languages with correct pronunciation etc. However, Ragam identification is more difficult. Audio of similar songs might help. Mostly , the problem occurs in Ragamalika songs . It could be tricky. For youngsters or newbies, familiarizing the ragam by example rather than by the musical notation is the better method just like learning English by reading. listening and writing is better than simply memorizing grammar books and dictionary. It is the usage that counts. (Kapi ragam is a typical example. Jagadhoddhaarana is mostly mentioned as Kapi in blurbs but some say it is Pilu. After many decades, I could get information about Madurai Mani Iyer's concert song 'intha sowkyamu' . It is so very unlike many of the other songs by him) ..a gem. but the script hardly matters there ). I am not ruling out a person being proficient in more than one of these languages. .I am particularly interested in many MS songs in Hindi, Marathi, Bengali , Urdu and Malayalam. Doubtless, you know about her 11 languages record (LP) for National Integration. Of what use if some one who does not know Bengali, just hears it and gives transliteration of what he hears? How can that be understood by a non-bengali? The point is that lyrics should be given NOT IN transliterated English, that too by software, but in the original language . People who cannot read the script can skip it. I wonder if there are any Marathi, Gujarathi, Bengali, Oriya ,Punjabi members in this group. Most members appear to be Tamils and a few from Kannadam and Telugu. As our focus is on Carnatic music, the lyrics on which queries are made can be permitted to be in the language of the lyric. Transliterating a Sanskrit keerthan into English and then listening or singing seems absurd. Devanagari script may be a better option. But even that may not work for Thamizh! ( sujamusic.wordpress.com...tries to give devanagari script..good but I objected that english transliteration must be avoided )
Members are of course not under any obligation to answer specific queries. Is it they cant or they wont? If it is they wont, why? Your reply was acceptable but your endorsing arasi was not. .. Contrary to rsankar's opinion that the query regarding ragas got ignored because the lyric was in tamil script, it is more likely that the answer is not known. So, where does all this lead us? 1) If the query is about lyrics, allow posting of the lyric in its ORIGINAL LANGUAGE only and never in transliterated English. 2) If the doubt is about a ragam, ask them to give audio clip. Language does not enter into the picture then. How else do we appreciate Instrumental music as in Nagaswaram, or Violin? solo?.. Specifically, I sent 'Maiyn Nir Guniya' bajan audio by MS to a near expert in Hindusthani Classicals but he replied that it seems to be a marathi bajan. Shall I take the help of forum members in this regard? I am not very hopeful. I did my own searching and it is likely to be a creation of KamalDasGuptha who taught to MS back in 1940! Enough today and thanks for your patient reading.

RSR
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#8 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

Sri.VKRaman..-> Promoting ideas is not to be confused with promoting self, friends and known persons. Less of the 'self', the better.

arasi
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#9 Re: moderator

Post by arasi »

RSR,
To relate to you more about the forum, your question comes in handy--and to say what a varied group of rasikAs we are!

Oy bhArathiyArE! was the translation of an already published childhood recollections of Yadugiri Ammal in tamizh about the poet--she was the daughter of Mandayam Srinivasa Iyengar.

Many of the members who cannot read tamizh, are very keen on knowing the meaning of tamizh kritis, to fully appreciate them. That's why the SAhitya section of Rasikas is treasure of a facility where dedicated rasikAs bring lyrics and meanings to innumerable songs.

We are also interested in other forms of art. Our literature section flourishes because of this. Then there are bright young and old minds which seriously discuss the 'science' of CM! You find them everywhere--Technical Discussions could interest you, for instance.

It's mind-boggling at times, the amount of posts that come in every day. We miss quite a bit of some interesting stuff because of lack of time to peruse them all.

Hope you find your topics of interest in many of the countless threads...

RSR
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#10 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

I have read about Barathi and am a great admirer of Mandayam P.Thirumalacharya (MPT Acharya) , Barathi's close
friend, a firebrand revolutionary, an associate of V.V.S.IYER in India House London, Comintern member who had the good fortune to work with Com.Lenin. and much more. He returned to India and passed away unnoticed. after Independence. I suppose, your writing does poor justice to that golden period.

RSR
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#11 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... e-badavanu
illustrates my approach
----------------------------------------------------

varsha
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#12 Re: moderator

Post by varsha »

I came to this forum to gain from the expert knowledge of real rasikas of classical music and get clarification of doubts about ragams.
Not much useful.
Aedh Wishes for the Clothes of Heaven
by William Butler Yeats

Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams

RSR
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#13 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

I too love English Literature though I am not a student of literature but an engineer by profession and my preference is Poetic Prose rather than Prosaic Poetry. ( I dont imply that Yeats is prosaic.) I would begin with Goldsmith, through Lamb Hazzlitt, Carlyle, Ruskin, Wilde, and in Twentieth century... Shaw, Russell and Harold J.Laski, the best of them all! beloved of Jawahar. .And of course Will Durant. I am not just dropping names. I have religiously read all of them. and finally that master of English prose P.G.Wodehouse. I consider the Bard as the creator of modern English Language and read all his 10 plays on History of England beginning from King John, Richard II ( a masterpiece), and the entire series. There is a great difference between these Bard's plays and other comedies and 'tragedies' by him. Except in Henry V , there is no 'comedian' in thse plays. ( refreshing!). .
As for M.P.T.Acharya,

. ..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._P._T._Acharya .

How I wish that people with time and ability took valuable writings from other languages to Thamizh , instead of selling Thamizh and Indian languages to the Americans , primarily!...and if you know thamizh, kannadam and english, see my request for help regarding 'Yadhuvamsa Thilaka' and help

Pratyaksham Bala
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#14 Re: moderator

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

The intended message is lost !

varsha
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#15 Re: moderator

Post by varsha »

RSR
I quoted the poem , hoping to to dissuade you from looking down upon this forum.The forum is pretty much much important to the likes of us who have been around here for close to two decades.If you dont find this forum useful , fair enough . We understand that.

vasanthakokilam
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#16 Re: moderator

Post by vasanthakokilam »

RSR wrote:4) there should be a section where 'beginners' can post their queries about ragam and other information.
The admin has tweaked the names and description of the sub forums. The above is now accommodated within the existing framework. What used to be called 'Music School' in the Music Resources section is now called 'Beginners Q&A - Learning area. To teach and learn Indian classical music"

The purpose and scope of the Identification section is tweaked a little bit.

Identification / translation requests
Place to go if you want to ask someone identify raga, tala, composer etc or ask for sāhitya (lyrics) or notations or translations.

There are also few other changes to the names and descriptions which hopefully provide a bit more clarity on what to post where. There may still be some ambiguity occasionally for specific posts, we will deal with them as and when they occur.

RSR
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#17 Re: moderator

Post by RSR »

yes.. noted... thank you

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