meaning of bhAva

Languages used in Carnatic Music & Literature
Post Reply
vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

We use the word bhAva to mean emotion. I looked up the online sanskrit dictionary and it gives quite a few meanings. Are these meanings related? Ignore the bhava for now which are interspersed, though I was also interested in bhava to see the derivation of anubhavam since we do internally experience the bhAvam but that is a different matter.

Image

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

The Monier-Williams Sanskrit Dictionary gives the meaning of anubhava and anubhAva as:-

anubhava = perception, apprehension, fruition, understanding; impression on the mind not derived from memory; experience, knowledge derived from personal observation or experiment; result, consequent.

anubhAva = sign or indication of a feeling (bhAva) by look or gesure; dignity, authority, consequence; firm opinion, ascertainment, good resolution, belief.
bhava = coming into existence, birth, production, origin

For 'bhAva', please see page 754 of the dictionary:-
http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.d ... hp?sfx=pdf

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

vk,
have you seen the posture of Sri rAmakrishna paramahaMsa standing with eyes closed and pointing one finger up? Can we describe it? Narada bhakti sUtras describe it as 'mUkasvAdanavat' (dumb man's experience of delightful taste).
'anirvacanIyam' (beyond lexicon).

I am just hearing the song of tyAgarAja 'vaddanE vAru lEru'. (There is none to console me).
'vaddu vaddu' is a term (tamil - vENDAM vENDAM) (roughly translated as 'don't) - the way a mother consoles her crying baby. Let us place ourselves in the mood of the crying baby and the mother is not there. That mood is 'bhAva'.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks PB and Govindan.

That is a quite a potent word indeed. In the sense we use it in the context of CM as emotion/rasa, it is only one dimension of it. ( on a tangential matter, I like the sentence bhAva bhAvam nigaccati (birds of a feather flock together) ).

On the use to denote passion and emotion, MW says "2 kinds of bhAvas are enumerated. The sthAyin (primary) and vyabhicArin ( subordinate ). The former are 8 or 9, according as the rasa or sentiments are taken to be 8 or 9 and the latter are 33 or 34.

I have heard of the primary ones, what are these 33 or 34 subordinate ones?

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Here is an extract from:-
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=KnPo ... va&f=false

"Vyabhichari bhavas are transient feelings which rise irregularly and support the permanent basic sentiments. If sthayi bhavas are like the deep flow of a water-current, the vyabhichari bhavas are like bubbles in the current. Because of their fleeting nature they are also called sanchari bhavas.

Vyabhichari bhavas are thirty-three in number:
nirveda (self disparagement), glani (debility), shamka (apprehension), shrama (weariness), dhriti (equanimity), jadata (stupor), harsha (joy), dainya (depression), ugrata (sternness), chinta (reflection), trasa (alarm), irshya (envy), amarsha (impatient of opposition), garva (arrogance), smriti (recollection), marana (death), mada (intoxication), supti (dreaming), nidra (drowsiness), vibodh (awakening), vrida (shame), apasmara (dementedness), moha (distraction), sumati (resolve),
alasata (indolence), avega (flurry), tarka (doubt), avahithya (dissembling), vyadhi (sickness), chapalata (unsteadiness).

These subordinate feelings or accessories contribute to the consolidation of the sthayi bhavas, leading to the consummation of rasa."


Though Vyabhichari bhavas are reported as thirty-three in number, only thirty are listed above!
---------
Please also check:
http://www.narthaki.com/info/articles/art160.html

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

WM dicationary lists all the 34 vyabhicAri bhAvas!

VyabhicAri-bhAva - a transitory state (of mind or body, opp. to sthAyi-bhAva) said to be thirty-four in number, viz. nirveda, glAni, sankA, asUyA, mada, srama, Alasya, dainya, cintA, moha, smriti, dhriti, vrIdA, capalatA, harsha, Avega, jadatA, garva, vishAda, autsukya, nidrA, apasmAra, supta, vibodha, amarsha, avahithA, ugratA, mati, upalambha, vyAdhi, unmAda, marana, trAsa, vitarka.

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

In this thread, since today AN, I need to scroll to read a line of text ie, there is no text-wrapping according to window size.
However, it is not so in other topics.
Is it that way only for me or is it so for others too?

mankuthimma
Posts: 912
Joined: 11 Jul 2010, 13:38

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by mankuthimma »

Now That is a Tharka Bhava VK :P

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by ragam-talam »

vg, you are right. i have the same issue. only for this thread!

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

The formatting comes through OK for me (Firefox on Windows).

Thanks PB for the full list of the subordinate bhAvas.

(Thimma, which one you are referring to? )

MLV, in her thodi lec-dem, makes a passing remark that Thyagaraja's songs are imbued with bhAva that anyone who sings it brings out the intended bhAva.. I take it to mean that the combination of words, melody and laya brings forth the bhAva. The vaggeyakara has already done the hard part, the artist has to bathe in that flow and act as a repeater and sustainer of that bhAva already inherent in the compositions.

Pratyaksham Bala
Posts: 4164
Joined: 21 May 2010, 16:57

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

vgovindan, r-t:

Whenever images are posted in a thread the width widens to accommodate the image, and the texts run to the full width. You will find the same 'problem' when you open "Vidwans & Vidushi » Manpoondia Pillai", "Members' Stuff & Lounge » Modes of draping Dhothi", and a few other threads with images.

srkris
Site Admin
Posts: 3497
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by srkris »

bhAva (if taken as a vRddhi of bhava) has its root in bhU (to be/become).

It means "a state of being". The word has to be qualified by an adjective to make contextual sense, as in madhura bhAva or shAnta bhAva etc.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

By any chance, the root bhU and the English 'Be' related through the indo-european context? Or that is my flight of fantasy?

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by arasi »

Flights of fantasies can arrive at bhAvA,even in CM concerts ;) Sorry for the cross reference, but I had the same question that you have!
I also liked what you said about how a performer has to bathe in the bhAvA intended by the composer to bring the lyrics alive.

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

tyAgarAja's choice of rAgas for some of inspirational songs is just superb. Therefore, even if the singer sings without bhAva, it sounds so beautiful. The statement of MLV is very correct about 'being in bhAva' while singing such kRtis. However, may I ask, in how many bhAvas can a musician be during a 'kutcheri' format. The present kutcheri format is just like Sivaji Ganesan enacting 9 roles. In the latter case, only one role is projected at a time. But assume that the actor is to perform so many roles in a drama - a span of two to three hours - what a mess would be - no matter how consummate the actor is.

Similar is the case with our musicians. The present format of satisfying a wide range of audience in a single concert and consequent of expectation of rasikas is playing havoc with CM. A true artist is a free bird. You cannot ask a bird sing this tune or that tune. It will sing whatever it wants - whenever it wants. Interpolating this for musicians, we rasikas have to go with open mind to listen to what the artist has to offer. But we have a definite format of listening and on the top of it our own choices. We expect the artist to fulfil all the expectations of one and all the rasikas.

This, I consider to be the bane of present day format of CM. Musicians have got themselves trained in the strait-jacketed format of kutcheri and the result is only a mish-mash of bhAva.

Can the mindset of rasikas change to accept what the musicians have to offer? Then we can expect the musician to bathe in the bhAva and convey in full measure of the composer's intent.

Can we?

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by arasi »

Govindan,
I agree on how in TyagarAja the rAgAs seem as though they exist to capture the bhAvA of every one of his songs, and even those who pay tad attention to bhAvA end up sounding as if they do sing or play his krutis feelingly!
Yes, there are limitations when it comes to a cacEri format, for us to fully appreciate the force of the composer's feelings.There are times when you want the musician to linger on with a rAga or song (as you did in Kalpagam Swaminathan's concert), but may be because i'm not an expert rasikA, I have come to accept its limitations and go to every concert in a tabla rasa state, and let the concert speak to me. One reason for that perhaps is, having not heard many live concerts during decades of my life (being away from India), I consider every good concert experience a bonus now! I do like to listen to new voices and sounds and go to listen to young performers. Some surprises there, and disappointments too, but I do give myself a chance so that I can pick the ones i want to listen to again.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by rshankar »

IMO, bhAva like rasa has to be experienced, not defined....
When we speak of rAgas (or artists) communicating the bhAva of a composition, what we actually mean is 'what we think is the bhAva the composer wanted to convey' - if our ideas and the artists' are in sync, then, we as rasikas are satisfied, and a moment of rasAnubhava is created. If the two opinions are not in sync, or, are at loggerheads, the experience ranges from 'a missed opportunity' to a frankly annoying one. I am not sure if I make myself clear, but let me try to illustrate my point - take the kRti 'kaNDEn kaNDEn kaNDEn sItaiayai kaNDEn rAghavA' - one interprettaion is that this is a hugely happy and cheerful composition where hanumAn announces that he's discovered where sIta is held captive. Yet another is that it is a cheerful pallavi, followed by an essentially somber description of sItA's pitiable situation in lankA...the former interprettation of the bhAva to be conveyed by singing this song would lead the artist to chose a bright, cheerful and essentially up-lifting rAga like vasantA; however, if the latter view is espoused, then bhAgESri is the hands-down winner. Since I subscribe to the latter interprettaion, unless I hear this composition in bhAgESri, I am not able to experience the composition fully, even if the rendition in vasantA is faultless.

smala
Posts: 3223
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:55

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by smala »

I agree. Bombay Jayshree's rendition of KandEn KandEn does more to me emotively with the lyrics than other versions.

Similarly, this one from a very young Amanat Ali from Pakistan - just twists your heart in all the wrong places. PLEASE don't miss this one - you'll see why!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvqMgpszN4
Last edited by smala on 17 Nov 2010, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
Posts: 16774
Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by arasi »

Ravi,
You are right. BhAva is experienced. It's rasAnubhava which cannot be described or analysed--or, would be a pity if you start analysing it!
Now, while I agree, I disagree too! To me, the vasantA version suits the song kaNDEn kaNDEn because, in my childhood, it was a thrill to hear that anuman had seen sItai and how exciting it was to hear it in a song in high spirited vasantA!

ragam-talam
Posts: 1896
Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by ragam-talam »

My understanding of Sanskrit is that multiple meanings for a word is by design, e.g. 'chit' to mean awareness and world, because it's out of our awareness that the world comes into existence for us.
Is there a similar thing going on here with these multiple meanings for bhAva?

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

rt,
The word 'bhAva' occurs in tyAgarAja kRtis quite frequently. In almost all the places, SrI tyAgarAja has used this word, stand-alone - unlike what has been stated by srkris that it should be qualified. Similarly, annamAcArya uses this word 'bhAvamulOna' as stand-alone in the kRti starting with this word. One of the most difficult words I faced in translation in tyAgarAja kRtis is 'bhAva'.I have come across statements like 'He is in bhAva' in relation to some great masters like rAmakRshna paramahaMsa.

However, what we are discussing here refers to emulation of a frame (or state) of mind of the composer - as is done by actors in respect of characters. This particular aspect of giving bent - sort of selective voice culture - to express moods appropriate to the occasion - as is applicable to speech (intonation) - is meant here.

I have two samples of rendering of dIkshitar kRti 'nAga gAndhAri rAga nutE' - one by a pair of prolific musicians and another by a seasoned musician. There is a word occurring in the kRti 'parama SAnta svarUpAkArE'. The rendering of these words by the seasoned musician is totally different from the other one - which is just flat. The seasoned musician brings out the 'SAnta bhAva' by suitable modulation of the voice. This is what I mean by 'bhAva'. This in no way differs from the 'bhAva' of dance and acting.

When we fail to convey our feelings in prose, we resort to poetry; what we cannot still convey in poetry, we resort to music; what we still fail to convey, we resort to danace. Dance is the consummation of all forms of communication. The tamil 'iyal-isai-nADagam' - prose (prose/poetry)-music-dance is the ladder which we humans have climbed in order to perfect our communication skills - yet we are not perfect as such.

The 'bhava' culture applicable to dancers and actors is very much applicable to musicians - this has been successfully demonstrated in film music of past years - where 'bhAva' was very much pronounced.

The most glaring example is the rendering of the tyAgarAja kRti 'nagumOmu' (AbhEri). This kRti is in karuNA bhAva. But, what is rendered by one of very famous CM-cum-film musician is to simply put is 'horrifying'. We need not go down to these levels.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

When we fail to convey our feelings in prose, we resort to poetry; what we cannot still convey in poetry, we resort to music; what we still fail to convey, we resort to danace. Dance is the consummation of all forms of communication. The tamil 'iyal-isai-nADagam' - prose (prose/poetry)-music-dance is the ladder which we humans have climbed in order to perfect our communication skills - yet we are not perfect as such.

The 'bhava' culture applicable to dancers and actors is very much applicable to musicians - this has been successfully demonstrated in film music of past years - where 'bhAva' was very much pronounced.
Understood Govindan. Well stated.

I feel that the some film music directors exhibit great aesthetic ability in the bhAva exposition in the background music score. When done well, which is indeed rare, it is a remarkable enhancement to the scene.

srkris
Site Admin
Posts: 3497
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 03:34

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by srkris »

By any chance, the root bhU and the English 'Be' related through the indo-european context? Or that is my flight of fantasy?
Yes they are cognates.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks srkris. This reminds me, I had started another thread (http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13499 ) to build this list of English-Sanskrit cognates, the obvious ones and the not so obvious ones... I made some attempts at identifying these cognates using the resources mentioned in that thread but could not get too far since many are not obvious. I have contacted a couple of off-line acquaintances who have studied Sanskrit to help build that table. Let us see if they bite. Anyway, that is for the other thread.
The word 'bhAva' occurs in tyAgarAja kRtis quite frequently. In almost all the places, SrI tyAgarAja has used this word, stand-alone - unlike what has been stated by srkris that it should be qualified. Similarly, annamAcArya uses this word 'bhAvamulOna' as stand-alone in the kRti starting with this word. One of the most difficult words I faced in translation in tyAgarAja kRtis is 'bhAva'.I have come across statements like 'He is in bhAva' in relation to some great masters like rAmakRshna paramahaMsa.
Govindan, at one level, bhAva without a qualifier may indeed have a default qualifier, just like aTa thala refers to kanda jAthi aTa thala. So the jAthi of the bhAva, so to say, is probably defaulted. I do not know what that default is. And it is possible the default is context dependent.

Just today, I used it in a stand alone fashion in this context. The person with me was working out the raga of a piece by working out the swaras. I instinctively said, 'figure it out from the bhAva'. There are two things here in this otherwise rather mundane encounter. First one is the context, I meant rAga bhAva but do not have to say it. Second one is, what did I mean?. I did not mean 'emotion' but meant it in the sense of 'what it is' in abstraction. Meaning, ragas have their identity, a swarUpam, a being and it gives off that sense of what it is directly. In this context, it is neither a positive nor a negative connotation but just a neutral one.

Your 'in the bhAva' with Ramakrishna Paramahamsa example is indeed interesting. May be it is meant in the sense of 'yOga bhAva', the sense he gave off to others when he was in that state.

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

vk,
I request you to refer to tyAgarAja's tODi kRti 'rAju veDale' here - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -todi.html.

The caraNa words 'bhAvinci tyAgarAju pADaga' - the word 'bhAvincu' - is most difficult to translate. I have translated in Tamil as 'uLLuNarndu pADa'. But in English I have translated as 'sings sentimentally'. But I am not very positive whether I have been able to capture the 'bhAva' of tyAgarAja in translating 'bhAvincu'.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10956
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Govindan, your translation sounds great. May be another English translation for ullUNarvudan is 'with (inner) feeling' to mean 'feeling inside what the lyrics convey'. For the vaggeyakara, that inner feeling is probably the source and resource for coming up with the matching raga and laya, and the resulting melody.

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by rshankar »

vasanthakokilam wrote:May be another English translation for ullUNarvudan is 'with (inner) feeling' to mean 'feeling inside what the lyrics convey'.
Could also be 'comprehensively comprehend'...:)

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

rs,
jokes apart, I have translated 'bhAvincu' as 'apprehend' in some places - that is comprehending comprehension - or is it not?

rshankar
Posts: 13754
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by rshankar »

vgovindan wrote: I have translated 'bhAvincu' as 'apprehend' in some places - that is comprehending comprehension - or is it not?
As far as I know, the main meanings for 'apprehend' in common use today include 'to arrest' or 'to be uneasy/fearful'; although 'to understand' is also one of the meanings of 'apprehend', it is rarely used in that context these days.

vgovindan
Posts: 1865
Joined: 07 Nov 2010, 20:01

Re: meaning of bhAva

Post by vgovindan »

rs,
Indeed I have used the word 'apprehend' in the meaning of 'arrest'. The thief called 'truth (or God)' is right in front of us till we recognise Him to be so. He eludes us because of lack of identity or proof and our own misconceptions. Spiritual enquiry is nothing short of police investigation. Therefore, this word 'apprehend' seems to satisfy the 'bhAva' of 'bhAvincu'.

Post Reply