Tamil language issues

Languages used in Carnatic Music & Literature
mahakavi
Posts: 1269
Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by mahakavi »

>>By the way, roads in Chennai are already jammed because VIPs are arriving to attend the conference.<<

The roads in Chennai are always congested. The Thamizh conference has nothing to do with it. Besides, the conference is held in Coimbatore. That city is connected by air to Chennai.

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by cmlover »

dear sub
Don't take these debates personally. As a scientist you must be used to opposing views expressed vehemently all the time. Ultimately we are all after 'facts' that will enhance our knowledge. It does not help being dogmatic or opinionated which can only raise your BP ( not worth it ultimately!). Hence the truce is welcome.

I have nothing against Singapore Siddharthan. He appears to be just light weight having just writtten a popular treatise and not a well-researched monograph. His exposure is entirely Singapore based as I am not sure how important Tamil is in that country. I refuse to accept him as an authority on Tamil grammar.

Regarding Tamil pronunciations there cannot be any hard and fast rules since the language was spoken all over SI from ancient times with different accents. No one attempted even then to unify the pronunciations probably due to the proverbial tolerance of the Tamils. Hence there are no rules for pronunciation. The brahmins sanskritized Tamil and prided on their pronouncing ability. The shine is worn off their pride and the pendulam has swung the other way. For quite some time the Tanjoreans/Chennaites used to make fun of the Palghat brahmin tamil. Even there have been numerous episodes in the movies. Now what you are referring to is the Tanjore/Chennai mode of pronunciation which is supported by Siddharthan who perhaps studied at Chennai. If he had travelled and spent some time at Madurai/ Coimbatore/Tinneveli/YAzhpANam/... he would have concocted different rules! Folks in other parts of TamilNaD will claim that theirs is the legitimate way. In fact many SriLankans claim that they speak the correct Tamil as do perhaps the Singaporeans and Malyasian Tamils. IMHO all are right as there is no one uniform way of speaking Tamil. All accents enrich our language. I am sure the scholars at the Conference will endorse my views rather than fitting strait-jackets onto our glorious language.

I welcome chemmozhi/semmozhi/semmoLI/... all with equal enthusiasm which is a sign of the vitality of the growing Tamil language.
A rose by whatever way it is pronounced will smell just as sweet...

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by MaheshS »

CML - I grew up in Madurai. And I cannot see anything wrong with what mahakavi [Dr Sub] says on this topic. I still remember the occasional chiding I got when I said "Madhyanam" rather than "Madhiyam" :)

mahakavi
Posts: 1269
Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by mahakavi »

>>A rose by whatever way it is pronounced will smell just as sweet... <<
Generally true, but to stretch it beyond certain limits might invite ridicule if not condemnation. The alternate names should not be disagreeable to the majority, notwithstanding what Shakespeare wrote.

The national bias regarding foreign authors must stop. Siddharthan dwells extensively on tolkAppiyam as well as modern Thamizh authors evolutionarliy advanced ( from Bharathi to KaNNadAsan to boot).

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by harimau »

mahakavi wrote:
>>By the way, roads in Chennai are already jammed because VIPs are arriving to attend the conference.<<

The roads in Chennai are always congested. The Thamizh conference has nothing to do with it. Besides, the conference is held in Coimbatore. That city is connected by air to Chennai.
Thanks for the information about flights to Coimbatore from Chennai. I was totally unaware of it. I was equally ignorant of the fact that the conference is in Coimbatore though the daily papers have been writing about it for the last week if not more. |(

You might be equally unaware that the runway at Gopalapuram was not completed in time for the Chemmozhi conference. Hence, Doctor Kalaignar, along with A. Raja, Ponmudy (both ministers), Kanimozhi, MP and Thirumathi Dayalu Ammal took a flight yesterday morning to Coimbatore out of Meenambakkam Airport.

Contrary to what you might think, our VIPs do not go to their destinations fighting traffic. The roads are closed off to the public so that they can reach their destination without worrying about traffic delays or, even more important, an ambush. In addition, cell phone towers are ordered to switch off denying service to phone users so one cannot set off IEDs. (This is not disclosure of any secret information but from observations from personal experience of denial of cell phone service).

I myself have seen Doctor Kalaignar's convoy at one time; in addition to a dozen vehicles and a couple of large polica vans, it also has an ambulance. One doesn't expect 15 vehicles to fight traffic and still reach its destination as a single unbroken convoy.
:!: :!:

mahakavi
Posts: 1269
Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by mahakavi »

>> roads in Chennai are already jammed because VIPs are arriving to attend the conference<<

My comment pertained to the above statement---- ".....VIPs are arriving to attend the conference". No further comment.

harimau
Posts: 1819
Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 21:43

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by harimau »

mahakavi wrote:>> roads in Chennai are already jammed because VIPs are arriving to attend the conference<<

My comment pertained to the above statement---- ".....VIPs are arriving to attend the conference". No further comment.
So you would want me to track the movements of A. Raja, Central Minister for Communications; Kanimozhi, Member of Parliament; and any number of other DMK functionaries who have arrived in Chennai to be near Doctor Kalignar?

I have other things to do.

I observe a massive traffic jam and report it and you absolutely have to contradict it. You didn't even see what I saw so you can't say it was the usual congestion.

So, let is simply say it was a figment of my imagination. I don't have any problem with that.

By the way, there is power cut in several places in Chennai today and my doctor said that they probably are diverting all power to Coimbatore. There, another figment of my imagination for you.

mahakavi
Posts: 1269
Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by mahakavi »

Take it easy my friend. You are near the scene and I did not contradict your report. I thought by VIPs you meant foreign delegates like George Hart, the Finnish professor, Singapore Siddhartan (cmlover, are you viewing this post?)and others like them. If Raja and Kanimozhi arrived from Delhi they surely (!) deserve the VIP treatment--- don't they?

>>By the way, there is power cut in several places in Chennai today and my doctor said that they probably are diverting all power to Coimbatore. There, another figment of my imagination for you.<<

Yes, I believe it! The electric grid in Chennai has connected with that in Coimbatore through space, bypassing adjoining landline grids. Your doctor said "probably" and he knows for sure. Coimbatore could probably borrow power from the Kerala grid, if needed. That is easier.

Just curious! Are all electric grids in ThamizhnADu interconnected?

cmlover
Posts: 11498
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by cmlover »

Do we honestly believe that anything good for Tamil will be achieved through this conference? It is for Mu Ka to say goodbye with a bang! Perhaps for the coronation of his succesor. I will be surprised if Kalaignar does not use this opportunity to have a dig at Rama to promote the Sethu samudram project. What is left in Tamil literature if Bhakti is ruled out! What is left in Tamil music if CM is left out! Congratulations to the Coimbatoreans to have a gala good time. At least the injection of crores of rupees (whatever may be left over by the politicians) may be good for the economy of that region. Of course children will enjoy the closing of the schools during the conference!

mahakavi
Posts: 1269
Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16

Re: Tamil language issues

Post by mahakavi »

Honestly, I don't bet my ranch (even if it is only half an acre) on the benefits derived from the conference. These are all showcases for the vested interests. But I don't discount it entirely. As in other conferences, including scientific ones, if 5-10% of the papers presented advance/showcase the language that is great. Watch for the academic sessions especially. Perhaps our poster-delegate can enlighten us on them. I wonder if they will be on the web.

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