TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

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RSR
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TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

Shakespeare wrote 36 plays. . 16 of them Happy-ending plays. Ten of them 'tragedies' and another ten on the History of England. That was during the reign of Queen Elizabeth. ( 1600 AD).
Two hundred years later ( in 1800), Charles Lamb and his elder sister Mary Lamb , wrote 'Tales from Shakespeare' for the then England's school children.
Mary Lamb had very serious bouts of insanity and in one of such bouts, had killed her own mother. She was about 26 then. Charles Lamb was devoted to his elder sister and spent his entire life in taking care of her, for, his sister had repeated incidence of mental illness and was in and out of asylums.
The remarkable thing is that Mary Lamb wrote all those delightful tales from the Bard with HAPPY ending . Of the sixteen 'comedies', she wrote about 12 of them.
Charles Lamb wrote the tragedies !
The Trinity were living in those decades and the condition in England then was as bad as in India.
( East India Company decades..1757- 1857)
Here is a link to Tales from Shakespeare in The Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... tion-books
In the autumn of 1796, at the age of 21, Charles Lamb, a city clerk with a lifelong stutter, came home from his desk at the East India Company to find that his sister, Mary, had stabbed their mother to death in a mad seizure. He described the events of 22 September in a letter to a friend:

“I will only give you the outlines. My poor dear dearest sister in a fit of insanity has been the death of her own mother. I was at hand with only time enough to snatch the knife out of her grasp. She is at present in a madhouse, from whence I fear she must be moved to a hospital. God has preserved to me my senses – I eat and drink and sleep, and have my judgment I believe very sound. My poor father was slightly wounded, and I am left to take care of him and my aunt.”

Young Charles Lamb had to persuade the parish to let him take responsibility for his sister for the rest of her days. Mary’s madness would recur briefly almost every year until her death in 1847. However, there remained enough good reason in her for brother and sister to collaborate on literary projects, possibly as a sort of therapy. Besides, from all accounts, Charles Lamb was exceptionally kind, extraordinarily free from affectation and blessed with an innate good humour. It seems that he accepted his fraternal duty without complaint, and channelled his own and his sister’s imaginative energies into literature, in particular the highly popular Tales from Shakespeare, a bestselling book throughout the 19th century.
This may be of interest to @Nick H and @Ranganayaki

Ranganayaki
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Ranganayaki »

I read the complete collection their tales in the 9th or 10th grade during a summer vacation, but I had no idea about her mental illness or this special aspect of their relationship. What a productive closeness, and what a good human being Charles Lamb must have been!!

Thank you for that info, @RSR

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

I knew of the book, but never read it. Had no idea about the people. A terrible story indeed.

There is no limit to the ocean of ignorance (and thus possible learning, of course!). I didn't know anything about Charles Dickens's life story until yesterday, and a lot of it was far from pleasant. And a lot about Dickens himself was far from pleasant too!

I grew up (to age 15) not far from Stratford on Avon. Very often it happens that the locals take the least notice of the things that people throng, from all over the world, to see. Went on many, many family shopping trips to Stratford and was very fond of the town. Never visited Shakespeare's birthplace!

I would guess that a certain amount of Shakespeare gets into every Brit's education, but I was never a Shakespeare scholar. I did do the to-be-or-not-to-be speech as an English literature oral exam. I had some acting skills, and think that maybe I did it quite well! At least for a 16-yr-old.

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@2
@Ranganayaki Madam, Glad. but my wonder was at Mary Lamb's sweet narration, despite her terrible malaise! Just curious. Did you have a chance to read the Bard's plays in original?
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@3
@Nick H
I am hoping that I can get some help from an Englishman' in my attempt to present the Bard 's History plays to students of Tamizh state. What do you think of my page given below?
https://sites.google.com/site/wars4roses/

https://sites.google.com/site/wars4rose ... troduction

https://sites.google.com/site/wars4rose ... agna-carta
( there are some very nice video clips )
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This passage from Daniel Defoe aptly describes the Aryan-Dravidian divide in India!


" I only infer, that an English Man, of all Men ought not to despise Foreigners as such, and I think the Inference is just, since what they are to Day, we were yesterday, and to morrow they will be like us. If Foreigners misbehave in their several Stations and Employments, I have nothing to do with that; the Laws are open to punish them equally with Natives, and let them have no Favour.

But when I see the Town full of Lampoons and Invectives against Dutchmen, Only because they are Foreigners, and the King Reproached and Insulted by Insolent Pedants, and Ballad-making Poets, for employing Foreigners, and for being a Foreigner himself, I confess my self moved by it to remind our Nation of their own Original, thereby to let them see what a Banter is put upon our selves in it; since speaking of Englishmen ab Origine, we are really all Foreigners our selves.[2]
— from "An Explanatory Preface"

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

RSR wrote: 07 Jun 2020, 15:39 @Nick H
I am hoping that I can get some help from an Englishman' in my attempt to present the Bard 's History plays to students of Tamizh state. What do you think of my page given below?
All I can say is that it looks interesting and informative. Your knowledge of the history and literature is way beyond mine. Mine amounts to little or nothing, and I am absolutely unqualified to comment, let alone advise :oops: :oops:

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@5
@Nick H
All I can say is that it looks interesting and informative.
Thank you, Sir.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Ranganayaki »

Wow!! If Defoe’s words are an explanatory preface, I wonder what the work it is a preface to will be like! 😅

Ranganayaki
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Ranganayaki »

RSR wrote: 07 Jun 2020, 15:39 @2
@Ranganayaki Madam, Glad. but my wonder was at Mary Lamb's sweet narration, despite her terrible malaise! Just curious.
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Yes, but I did not need to react to that, as your post had a possible explanation for it! The passage you quoted has it:
However, there remained enough good reason in her for brother and sister to collaborate on literary projects, possibly as a sort of therapy.



RSR wrote: 07 Jun 2020, 15:39 Did you have a chance to read the Bard's plays in original?
Yes. My first play (of any kind)was in the 11th grade: Romeo and Juliet, after seeing the Hollywood version that came to the OAT in the IIT campus. I was very surprised to see that it was so easy to read and understand and it was so much fun (I’ve always liked things nobody cared for!)! I must have grown, because i had been looking all my life at that book in the top shelf in my house, and I would periodically open it and find it impossible to read. I’m just sharing a memory!

Since then I’ve read several other plays, but only two history plays, Richard II and Julius Caesar. I definitely prefer Julius Caesar. But I can’t say I’ve ever been a fan of quoting passages.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Ranganayaki »

RSR wrote: 07 Jun 2020, 15:39 @2
@Ranganayaki Madam, Glad. but my wonder was at Mary Lamb's sweet narration, despite her terrible malaise!
People had a far harsher attitude to mental illness in earlier centuries and ill people were often relegated to mad-houses. No attempts were made to return them to regular life. More recently, we’ve known that removing stressors make many conditions manageable, not to speak of medication. She probably had something that would come and go with periods of stress or relief (just guessing) and was lucky enough to be taken out. Very fortunate.

So if she was ok most of the time (according to the narration you cite) is it a wonder that she could be productive if she was talented?

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

I would have thought that, never mind the madhouse or the prison, it is surprisinging that she was not hanged for murdering her mother.

I never found Shakespeare easy to read, which is probably why I didn't much. I haven't even glanced at his work for decades.

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@Nick H
And a lot about Dickens himself was far from pleasant too!
I am puzzled. ! What precisely is the complaint against Dickens? We Indian students of English, have great regard for his works. He was a bitter critic of the appalling social and economic injustice prevalent in his times. and a great admirer of Jesus Christ (' The Life of Our Lord (1846)'
He lived during the years of Chartist movement. I am just curious Not arguing.

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@9
@Ranganayaki
My observation of some families known to me, indicates that Genetic factors also play a major part. It occurs generation after generation. Mental stress may also be a reason but I am amazed how the great majority of the poor , face it with fortitude and hope. I think, 'Faith' gives them that mental poise.

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

RSR wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 19:51 I am puzzled. ! What precisely is the complaint against Dickens?
Here is the article that I read the other day: The Mystery of Charles Dickens by AN Wilson review – a great writer's dark side.

I suppose that many great artists have been very imperfect human beings.

I too have enjoyed his books, although I have not read all them. He did a great job of exposing the injustices of his age. Are you also familiar with Wilkie Collins? He and Dickens were friends, and he also wrote of the ills of their times. I think I have read all of Collins's novels. Quite a few of Dickens's characters are caricatures. It is style of writing, he carries it off well, and effectively. Collins is much more straight, portraying the characters as they are, without grotesque exaggerations and funny names.

I have enjoyed them both, but Collins wins the prize from me.

Ranganayaki
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Ranganayaki »

Nick H wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 04:00
Here is the article that I read the other day: The Mystery of Charles Dickens by AN Wilson review – a great writer's dark side.
That link didn’t work. Here’s another one, i believe it is the same article!

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... -dark-side

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@13
@Nick H
Thank you. I confess that I have not read any novel by Wilkie Colins. Nor have I read all the novels of Dickens. except Great Expectations, David Copperfield, Nickolas Nickelby, Tale of two cities, Bleak House. .Each novel was different. and though bulky and sentimental, I liked them.
His 'Christmas Carol' is one among the best. Would like to read 'The story of our Lord' published posthumously. If you happen to get a link, kindly share.
As you rightly point out, many great people 'may' have a dark side.
especially brought out by the modern genre of 'literary criticism'. but how reliable are these? Even if 'true' I prefer to ignore them. For us 'rasikas', any artiste is defined by his /her creations only. Other 'titbits', if they reinforce the positive image, we accept . If not, we just ignore. That applies to literary figures, musicians and social leaders.
I have been reading all your posts and I believe that you do not like 'short-pieces' much in a concert. But, I submit that there are monumental works as well as very short works of great value. The present generation has no time to read War and Peace , or Brothers Karamazov. and there never has been a greater work than St.Mathew ( King James version) either for its literary beauty or for its uncompromising message.
Coming back to the Bard,
The Bard's plays are very short. Each play is just about 25 pages. ( like 6 minutes 78 rpm records). It is never too late. to learn. There is so much we have missed, in this fast-paced professional world.
The world of youngsters is now not given to 'reading' except just a few lines as twitter, preferably with some images. or newspaper headlines.
Bard's plays on History of England are real masterpieces except Henry VI ( Falstaff stuff). The Wars of roses tetrology is breath-taking in dialogs.
Richard-II is pure poetry in prose. and should rank as the greatest 'tragedy' by the Bard. ...just a short sample clip
https://youtu.be/nl0YhGQ-22k
Please do not be misled by 'scholars'. Begin from Henry-VI ( three parts).
Unlike so many of the Bard's plays, there is no nonsensical comic characters. in these and Richard-III.
Thank you for the feedback.
I just wanted to share. ( though , it is in no way, connected with CM)
================================
<quote>
No matter where; of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, and epitaphs; Make dust our paper and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth, Let's choose executors and talk of wills: And yet not so, for what can we bequeath Save our deposed bodies to the ground? Our lands, our lives and all are Bolingbroke's, And nothing can we call our own but death And that small model of the barren earth Which serves as paste and cover to our bones. For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground And tell sad stories of the death of kings; How some have been deposed; some slain in war, Some haunted by the ghosts they have deposed; Some poison'd by their wives: some sleeping kill'd; All murder'd: for within the hollow crown That rounds the mortal temples of a king Keeps Death his court and there the antic sits, Scoffing his state and grinning at his pomp, Allowing him a breath, a little scene, To monarchize, be fear'd and kill with looks, Infusing him with self and vain conceit, As if this flesh which walls about our life, Were brass impregnable, and humour'd thus Comes at the last and with a little pin Bores through his castle wall, and farewell king! Cover your heads and mock not flesh and blood With solemn reverence: throw away respect, Tradition, form and ceremonious duty, For you have but mistook me all this while: I live with bread like you, feel want, Taste grief, need friends: subjected thus, How can you say to me, I am a king?
</quote>

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

I have been a great reader of novels most of my life, but find now that I prefer to take in small chunks of information from the internet. That is a shame, and I should resume my reading! By the way, Bleak House was my favourite of Dickens's books. If you still have a taste for Victorian English literature, do give Collins a try. His most famous book is The Moonstone. It is not my favourite: I found the ending rather contrived. It is 15-20 years since I read these things. I have read others, like Mrs Gaskell, more recently, but still some years back now.

When it comes to art, who and what the artist was is something that we have to take on a case-by-case personal basis. Do we continue to accept their art or not? Does it make a difference if they are long since dead anyway? Each must decide for themselves. We cannot just refer to some set of rules. Ignorance has helped me out: I could enjoy the music of Wagner, knowing nothing about the man! They say that Beethoven was not a pleasant guy.

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@16
Nick H
By the way, Bleak House was my favourite of Dickens's books. If you still have a taste for Victorian English literature, do give Collins a try. His most famous book is The Moonstone. It is not my favourite: I found the ending rather contrived
I too love 'Bleak House'. especially those long letters. I will try to download and read Collins. 'Moonstone'. Which in your opinion is the best of Collins? that will be a guide for me.
-----------------------------------
I agree with your view on Artistes and their life. but would add that besides their art, their personality (good points) are also worth understanding in appreciating their art. ( I am having people like great CM vocalists like Chembai Bagavathar, MMI, Musiri, and ofcourse, my all-time favourites Smt.MS, Smt.DKP and Smt.NCV.
------------------------------------
Thanks to you, I searched the web and located Dickens' LIFE OF OUR LORD'.
I am giving the URL here for download.
https://ia802307.us.archive.org/32/item ... 897mbp.pdf
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There is so much similarity between the story of Jesus and the story of Krishna's birth. But , I do not wish to raise a controversy.
My preference is definitely for the Gospel.
The Bard's tales ( Mary Lamb) are so full of the spirit of the Gospel

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

It is too many years... Some of Collins's stories are exciting adventures; some focus on how lives are blighted by English tradition/law, such as the eminently respectable daughters who are disinherited when it is found that their eminently respectable parents never actually married.

You may be aware that I am not keen on Christianity and its rendering of the bible... although I admit that the bible is a work (or rather collection) of literature in itself, and, like Shakespeare, the King James version has a major place in the English language itself.

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

You may be aware that I am not keen on Christianity and its rendering of the bible... although I admit that the bible is a work (or rather collection) of literature in itself, and, like Shakespeare, the King James version has a major place in the English language itself.
I suppose, everyone, has some guiding principles in life. Mine is Liberation Theology in Indian National - cultural ambience. May sound eclectic! May I know yours? ..if you do not mind.

Nick H
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by Nick H »

I really don't know. I think that anybody who grows up (at least in my period of growing up) cannot avoid the bible and christianity, even though they may say no to its churches. The basic ethos of christian behavioural teachings is probably basic humanism anyway. I say this off the cuff, without any formal analysis.

Doubtless, there is a great deal of the bible with which a decent person would not disagree. And doubtless, this goes for a number of other books too.

RSR
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Re: TALES FROM SHAKESPEARE- by CHARLES LAMB and MARY LAMB

Post by RSR »

@20
The basic ethos of christian behavioural teachings is probably basic humanism anyway
Doubtless, there is a great deal of the bible with which a decent person would not disagree
Entirely agree with you.

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