valmiki ramayana

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vasanthakokilam
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valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

I recently stumbled on to this Valmiki Ramayana site. It is developed and maintained by IIT Kanpur
http://valmiki.iitk.ac.in/content?field ... ka_value=1

Listening to the audio and eyeballing the original Sanskrit plus the English meaning is a great way to read Valmiki Ramayana. I am enjoying it a lot. I do not know Sanskrit other than the common words that we use in our own languages and those familiar words show up a lot giving an air of familiarity. Of course, having the translation right there helps tremendously. As a bonus, we may increase our Sanskrit vocabulary. Even without knowing much Sanskrit, the poetry and the rhyme are quite enjoyable and in places stunning. ( e.g. having these two very similar words next to each other द्युतिमान् selfeffulgent, धृतिमान् selfcommanding )

The reciters seem to recite it with good pronunciation but let us see what you more knowledgeable folks think.

Rsachi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Rsachi »

VKM
You have rendered a great service to all by highlighting this site. Thank you.
I have visited this site before, and also valmikiramayan.net, a few times.
Among the many wonderful efforts of intelligentsia doing yeoman service to the cause of Hindu culture is this site from IITK. I know IITs have often been involved in supporting such efforts.

The site is quite authentic and it is obvious to me that this has been done by some well-meaning south Indians (including those two female voices!) The recitation is very "South Indian".

Valmiki Ramayana itself does not obfuscate the narrative with complicated Sanskrit. It is an elegant, simple and beautiful flow.

Look at the way the story begins! All the master craft of inspired story telling is on view here.


Valmiki Ramayana is the greatest epic poem and the bedrock of our cultural foundation. Valmiki achieves the effect of instilling devotion in us by the sheer power of his narrative. I am too small a person to even write these words. But I am simply sharing my joy!!!!


Read the introduction of Rama's character :

इक्ष्वाकुवंशप्रभवो रामो नाम जनैश्श्रुत: ।

नियतात्मा महावीर्यो द्युतिमान्धृतिमान् वशी ।।1.1.8।।

Translation

इक्ष्वाकुवंशप्रभव: born in the race of king Ikshvaku, राम: नाम known as Rama (one who delights others), जनै: by people, श्रुत: is heard, नियतात्मा steady natured (meaning thereby immutable form), महावीर्य: incomprehensible prowess, द्युतिमान् selfeffulgent, धृतिमान् selfcommanding, वशी subjecting the senses (subjecting the entire world under his control).

People have heard his name as Rama, who was born in the race of king Ikshvaku,
having steady nature, possessing incomprehensible prowess, self-effulgent, self-commanding and subjecting senses under his control.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Well said Sachi. Very much the same things I feel as well. The story telling technique Valmiki uses is quite captivating right from the start. I am looking forward to getting back on it and spend time consistently over a course of weeks and see how much I can cover. I can read Devanagari somewhat but not fluently and the musical recitations help me a lot in following along the Sanskrit text.

The sloka you quote is what caught my attention as well. I listened to the reciters first and there was something in there that stopped me on my tracks. It was so captivating. I listened to it a few times and then checked out the word for word meaning.

Rsachi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Rsachi »

VKM,
Kindred souls they say!

vasanthakokilam
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

A while back someone took upon the effort to describe the entire mahabharatha in 36 tweets ( http://www.storypick.com/story-mahabhar ... 36-tweets/ ).

How about Ramayana? No need for any mere mortals to do it. Narada does it himself.

Valmiki Ramayana Sarga 1, Sloka 20 to Sloka 89, Narada essentially tells the entire story of Ramayana to Valmiki in 70 tweets. In most slokas he does not even need 140 characters, around 90 is good enough :)

The rest of the Valmiki ramayana are the details as it is revealed to him.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

The histogram of the number of slokas Narada takes to tell the various parts of the story is quite interesting.

The beginning and ending is quite rapid. Sloka 20 starts with Dasaratha wanting to make rAmA the king. In 10 tweets Rama, Sita and party are in Chithrakuta, in another 10, they are in Dandakaranya. He takes one tweet (52) to describe the entire set of events around Sita's abduction by Ravana. Interestingly 21 tweets are devoted for the events involving Hanuman and Sugriva ending with Hanuman coming back from Lanka with the news of Sita being there (Sloka 78), The entire Lanka war is half a tweet (of 81) 'tēna gatvā purīṅ laṅkāṅ hatvā rāvaṇamāhavē' ('Rama entered the city of Lanka by means of that bridge, killed Ravana in the battle '). Rama regains the kingdom in Sloka 89.

bombal
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by bombal »

melpathur narayana battathri describes (as listened by the Lord himself), the Ramaayana beautifully in 2 Dasaskas 34 and 35 in the epic Naraayaneeyam...

rshankar
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by rshankar »

vasanthakokilam wrote:The histogram of the number of slokas Narada takes to tell the various parts of the story is quite interesting.
VK, there's an even shorter version of the rAmAyaNa in one SlOka, which highlights the milestones that define the epic:
pUrvam rAma tapOvanAt gamanam - first there was rAma going to the forest
hatvA mRgam kAncanam - then came the killing of the golden-deer
vaidEhi haraNam jaTAyu maraNam sugrIva sambhAshaNam - followed by the abduction of sItA, the death of jaTAyu and the meeting with sugrIva
vAli nigrahanam samudra taraNam lankApurI dahanam - the defeat of vAli, crossing the ocean, and burning of the city of lankA
pascAt rAvaNa kumbhakaraNa nihananam, Etat hi rAmAyaNam -after which came the slaying of rAvaNa and kumbhakaraNa...and this is the rAmAyaNa

Rsachi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Rsachi »

Ravi, Interesting shloka! I don't like it because there is no mention of Hanuman :)
I found this alternative version which seems more grammatically correct :


Adau rAma-tapOvanAdhigamanaM
hatvA mRgaM kAncanaM

vaidEhI-haraNaM jatAyu-maraNaM
sugrIva-sambhAShaM

vAlI-nigrahaNaM samudra-taraNaM
lankApurI-dAhanaM

paScAt rAvaNa-kumbhakarNa
hananaM etaddhi rAmAyaNaM

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Eka shlOkI rAmAyaNam, mahAbhAratam & bhAgavatam :-

rAmAyaNam :-
आदौ रामतपोवनाभिगमनं हत्वा मृगं काञ्चनम् |
वैदेहीहरणं जटायुमरणं सुग्रीवसम्भाषणम् ||
वालीनिर्दलनं समुद्रतरणं लङ्कापुरीदाहनम् |
पश्चाद्रावण कुम्भकर्णहननं एतद्हि रामायणम् ||

Adau rAmatapOvanAbhigamanaM hatvA mRgaM kAncanam
vaidEhIharaNaM jatAyumaraNaM sugrIvasambhASaNam
vAlInirdalanaM samudrataraNaM lankApurIdAhanam
paScAt rAvaNa kumbhakarNa hananaM etadhi rAmAyaNam


mahAbhAratam :-
आदौ श्रीभरताख्यभूपतिकुले भक्तोत्तमाः पाण्डवाः |
तेषामन्धसुताः शतः कपटिका दुर्भ्रातरः कौरवाः ||
बन्धुद्वेशकरं हि कौरवकुलं भेजे रणे दुर्गतिम् |
गीता तारयति स्म कृष्णभजकान्नेतन्महाभारतम् ||

Adau shrIbharatAkhyabhUpatikulE bhaktOtamAh pANDavAh
tESAmandhasutAh shatah kapaTikA durbhrAtarah kauravAh
bandhudvEshakaraM hi kauravakulaM bhEjE raNE durgatim
gItA tArayati sma krSNabhajakAnnEtan mahAbhAratam


bhAgavatam :-
आदौ देवकिदेवगर्भजननं गोपीगृहे वर्धनम् |
मायापुतनजीवितापहरणं गोवर्धनोद्धारणम् ||
कंसच्छेदनकौरवादिहननं कुन्तीतनूजावनम् |
एतद्भागवतं पुराणकथितं श्रीकृष्णलीलामृतम् ||

Adau dEvakidEvagarBhajananaM gOpIgrhE vardhanam
mAyAputanajIvitApaharaNaM gOvardhanOddhAraNam
kamsacchEdanakauravAdihananaM kuntI tanUjAvanam
EtadbhAgavataM purANakathitaM shrIkrSNalIlAmrutam

Rsachi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Rsachi »

I like the Bhagavatam shloka the best, metrically and lyrically it is the best!

rshankar
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by rshankar »

Rsachi wrote:Ravi, Interesting shloka! I don't like it because there is no mention of Hanuman :)
samudra taraNam lankApuri dahanam refer to the acts of hanumAn, so he is very much there!! And he brokered the deal for sugrIva sambhAshaNam...

vgovindan
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vgovindan »


vasanthakokilam
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

All these Ramayana tweets are interesting to read. There is something in all this that is interesting. Hanuman and Sugriva are integral part of rAmAyaNa alright but why vAli finds a place even in these mega-abridged forms when a whole lot of other events get totally omitted? It would have been just as easy to omit vAli. There may be a reason there.

It actually starts with Naradha's storytelling to Valmiki. He spends 2 and a half slokas on vAli related matters but only half a sloka for the entire Lanka war. There is something disproportionate about this.

Anyway, about this general mega abridged ramayanas, other people in the modern times trying to write such short ramayana is one thing, but what is fascinating is, this is how the original (Valmiki) Ramayana itself begins. A rapid fire short story telling by Naradha to Valmiki.

Also note that the entire bAlakANdam and uttara kANDam do not come from nAradha to Valmiki. nAradha starts the story with Dasaratha wanting to make rAmA the king and ends with rAmA gaining the kingdom back and some general statements about rAmA's rule as an epilogue.

rshankar
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by rshankar »

There is some doubt if vAlmIki even wrote the uttara kANDa.

vgovindan
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vgovindan »

If one reads the last chapter of Yuddha kANDa which ends with Rama Pattabhisheka, it is clear that Ramayana ends there with phala Sruti. Rest is - some may consider it blasphemous to say so - interpolation.

Rsachi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Rsachi »

VKM,
very insightful comments from you!

There has been a stupendous scholar by name Prof SK Ramachandra Rao in Blr. He has selected verses and drawn sketches of events in Ramayana. In his introduction he says that both Balakanda and Uttarakanda are later additions. Scholars say so based on many linguistic and aesthetic considerations.
I tend to agree completely. There is another great scholar Pavagada Prakasha Rao who comes on TV often. He says the same thing.

I do think a mention of Hanuman is critical to any narrative of Ramayana, however brief. I feel so even more strongly after visiting Chitrakoota.

About Vali, Rt Hon Srinivasa Sastri has penned a wonderful chapter in his lectures on Ramayana. In short, he says that the poet-seer Valmiki has included that problematic episode to show that all human lives are fraught with imponderables and "inevitables".

A bigger problem is the episode concerning Sita and Lakshmana just before she forces him to leave the hermitage in search of Rama.Valmiki's words are "Shakespearen" if I may venture an expression. Similarly the episode about Sita's agni pariksha.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

That is quite interesting, Sachi. Wow, you visited Chithrakoota! Please write more about that visit.

Thanks for those references. While I have also heard that uttara kanda may not have been by Valmiki ( mainly from my family members discussing the movie lave kusa), I have not heard that being said about Balakanda. But it is obvious from the conversation between Valmiki and Naradha which forms the first sarga of Valmiki Ramayana that Naradha does not describe anything about the happenings in Balakanda.

But then Narada does not describe things in detail at all, it is quite an abridged story he is telling Valmiki. All the day to day details of the whole Ramayana is revealed to Valmiki through a para normal vision process. But still, filling in the details through vision is one thing but the question of the pre-story (balakanda) and post-story(uttara kanda) requires a lot more evidence that they were revealed to Valmiki in a similar fashion.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Here is the confusing part. This conversation with Naradha and subsequent prodding by Brahma to write the story of Ramayana is also officially part of the Balakanda. That does not even cover the beginnings of how unusual the story beginning is. Lava and Kusa show up and Valmiki teaches them the Ramayana. So it is quite recursive. (For computer programmers, it is not unusual to use the very thing you are constructing in the construction of it even though you are not quite done constructing it.. think about that for a second.. that is what Valmiki seems to be doing. In the process of writing Ramayana, he references the finished Ramayana... but wait.. I have another interpretation at the end that is much simpler than recursive references).

Even if you get over that situation, you may think this is Uttarakanda since lava and kusa are referenced. No, we are still in Balakanda ( or at least in the preludes to getting to the story of young rama ). Little did we know that Rama is still ruling Ayodhya at that time. Rama hears Lava and Kusa reciting/singing Ramayana and invites them to his court and asks his brothers to listen to the great story. But there is not even any mention of the fact Rama is hearing his own story. He is all in praise of the story telling and singing abilities of Lava and Kusa but wouldn't you think that Rama would tell his brothers 'Listen to how well they tell our story'. The only reference is something like 'Listen to this story of great importance'.

The story then seamlessly shifts to the ancestors of Rama and after a few sargas into the real balakanda story that we all know. What do we make of it? Is the entirety of the Ramayana story is 'as recited by Lava and Kusa to Rama and Company in his court'? And that is part of Balakanda?

Actually, that is the only reasonable conclusion to come to, however strange it may seem.

If that is so, then there is really no recursion. We have to just go one level up and interpret the initial sections of balakanda as the story of the story (meta-story) and this meta story seamlessly leads to the story itself. I think that is a well accepted story telling technique in Sanskrit literature.

We need to see how the story ends. Because since the story is embedded in the meta story, he has to come back to the meta story otherwise it will not be complete.

There are some clues to that in the preliminary sections of balakanda itself where it is stated that Valmiki gets the vision of the details of the past happenings ( because Naradha gives him only the outline of the story), what is going to happen in the future (in uttarakanda). Yes there is reference to Uttarakanda in this preliminary portions of balakanda.

That will be interesting to see how all these loose ends are tidied up cleanly.

I have not gotten that far yet. It is quite far because all of this is still in the preliminary sections of Balakanda!

Rsachi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by Rsachi »

I took a scan of a page from Prof SKR's book. He did the selection of shlokas, did the translation as well as the sketching! Self-taught artist.
Image


By the way, I would say that the supposition that balakanda and uttarakanda were later addenda to the original Valmiki narrative does not really contradict the belief that Sita gave birth to twins and they were taught by Valmiki to sing Ramayana. Even the circumstances of Rama's birth correlate with stories in Bhagavata and Vishnu purana. So we need to separate the story vs the original poetic work authored by Valmiki.

Valmiki as the poet would have told his story mainly from the point of the proposed coronation, banishment, abduction, war and coronation. That would have been his narrative to uphold the example of Rama the ideal man and the personalities of Sita and Ravana.

munirao2001
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by munirao2001 »

There are many versions of 'Sankshipta Ramayana'. Saint Thyagaraja has composed 'Badalika Teera' -Ritigoula-Adi ( MVI is credited with the best exposition ). I am posting the lines:

"Pankajaasanuni paritapamu gani
Pankajaptakula patiyai velasi
Pankajakshito vanamuna kegi
Jinkanu vadhi inchi
Manku Ravanuni madamu nannachi
Nsshankkudagu Vibheeshannuniki
Lankanosagi surala brochina
Nishkalanka Thyagarajarchita"

The shortest version is 'Katte - Sitammaku tali; Kotte-Ravannanuni; Tecche'-Bhandita Seetammanu - Vaalmeeki's Sitayana.

keerthi
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by keerthi »

Munirao sir,

i have never heard Viswanatha Iyer sing this one, but one of the best versions I have heard, endorsed by my guru as well, is by your esteemed father Sri Sandhyavandanam Srinivasa Rao.

munirao2001
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Re: valmiki ramayana

Post by munirao2001 »

Keerthi,

SSRao had learnt this composition from his Guru, MVI.
Sri Pinakapani garu had immensely liked and notated the AIR recording of SSRao and taught Nedunoori garu and recently Malladi Bros.
RKS and Rudrapatnam Bros had also learnt from the AIR recording.

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