Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
Post Reply
Ananthakrishna
Posts: 130
Joined: 01 Nov 2019, 17:38

Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by Ananthakrishna »

In the course of some research I was doing into the way Carnatic Music has been shaped by societal changes, I realised that much of the modern discussion around this topic has to a great extent neglected the contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to the evolution of Carnatic Music. Particularly the most valuable contributions of the Devadasis have been either forgotten, or misattributed to other sources.

I do not think we need to debate why the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar community has been sidelined in this manner, but we do need to understand that they had extremely important roles to play in the evolution and preservation of Carnatic Music. I hope the learned rasikas on this forum will please provide more inputs and tell us about the great contributions of the Devadasis and Isai Vellalars to Carnatic Music.


Off the top of my head, I can think of-

1. Mudduswami Dikshitar and Shyama Sastri shishya parampara feature the Devadasis, Isai Vellalars and court musicians extensively. Many disciples of MD and SS shared the knowledge of their guru parampara to the Devadasis and Isai Vellalars, who in turn preserved and propagated that knowledge.

2. Several compositional forms exist today because of them, like the Padam and the Javali. Why, some great Padams and Javalis were even composed on Devadasis! (Smarasundaranguni-On Veena Dhanammal) They helped preserve the tradition of this genre of Carnatic Music, and were repositories of knowledge and information about CM. The Krithimanimalai we all refer to in times of need, is based extensively on the repertoires of the Devadasis belonging to great shishya paramparas.

3. The Tyagaraja Aradhanam is in a position of prominence today, because all throughout its history, it has been nurtured financially as well as otherwise by the Devadasis. And I'm not just referring to Bangalore Nagaratnamma here.


I'll research and add more points, as I'm sure there will be. I request all the rasikas to please share knowledge and information about the long-neglected contributions of the Devadasis to Carnatic Music!

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by RSR »

p-1
Thyagaraja Swami did not take any female disciples.
Do not bring in Isai Vellalar nagaswaram vidwans into this.
Do not bandy about 'devadasi ' so freely. Use the term Temple dancers'.
I do not think, SS took any lady as a disciple. Check up.
Learn not to think of caste background of any artiste. Concentrate on their music and theme.
Don't try to become a sociological biographer. Do not speak ill of great personalities insinuating about their life, just silly gossip.

shreyas
Posts: 251
Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 13:16

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by shreyas »

@RSR

The word Devadasi is well-accepted, right? Why shroud something in mystery and odium when there is a plain word for it? M S Subbulakshmi was a Devadasi, as was her mother. I do not know why simply stating facts is considered to be 'speaking ill' of someone, especially when the user of the supposedly offensive term has no intentions of belittling them. MSS, Brinda and Muktha were all devadasi's, and are all revered today. Why is the usage of the word such a taboo?

People very rarely mention their caste, indicating that they are beyond it as far as their music goes. But referring to them as 'call girls,' especially in the context of Kshetrayya, and then getting offended when members of this 'call-girl' community are pointed out to demonstrate that it is an insensitive stereotype, is perplexing.

RasikasModerator1
Posts: 40
Joined: 29 Nov 2009, 07:03

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by RasikasModerator1 »

Ok folks, let's not start another round of matches please.

The Lost Melodies
Posts: 78
Joined: 28 Jan 2021, 21:40

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by The Lost Melodies »

@Ananthakrishna

Do not struggle. Just quote the book authored by Sri B.M.Sundaram. He has done great work to mention the contributions of 'devadasis'.
Don't try to become a sociological biographer. Do not speak ill of great personalities insinuating about their life, just silly gossip.
Biography is indeed important to prevent such comments. I hope you are aware of Sundaramurthy Nayanar. His wife Paravai Nachiyar belongs to this community. This shows the status they had in society. I don't want to go in any more further on this topic. I just want to highlight this fact.

shreyas
Posts: 251
Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 13:16

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by shreyas »

@RasikasModerator1 apologies.

Ananthakrishna
Posts: 130
Joined: 01 Nov 2019, 17:38

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by Ananthakrishna »

RSR wrote: 03 Apr 2021, 17:47 Do not bring in Isai Vellalar nagaswaram vidwans into this.
Many women of the Isai Vellalar community were Devadasis. And so to speak of one is to speak of the other. To study them together is not wrong.
Do not bandy about 'devadasi ' so freely. Use the term Temple dancers'.
The community identifies themselves as the Devadasi community. Why should we not address them as they would address themselves? Also, they were not just Temple dancers.
I do not think, SS took any lady as a disciple. Check up.


Quite a few Devadasis and ladies feature prominently in the SS shishya parampara. I am not saying they were direct SS disciples. Will look into this further of course.
Learn not to think of caste background of any artiste. Concentrate on their music and theme.
The study of the history of music is incomplete if we don't study how changes in, and structures of society affected it. Society and societal structures affect the evolution and spread of music to a large extent. Carnatic music and its theme is inextricably linked with society and the community backgrounds of its practitioners.
Don't try to become a sociological biographer. Do not speak ill of great personalities insinuating about their life, just silly gossip.
I am neither insinuating, nor speaking ill of, nor gossiping about anybody. Please don't misunderstand my intentions. I reiterate, I deeply respect all the musicians and rasikas of the past and present. I am passionate about the music that I love, and will (to the best of my ability) leave no stone unturned in studying it, and all its facets.

Also, thank you for directing me to that book! @The Lost Melodies. Will study it in detail now!

MaheshS
Posts: 1186
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by MaheshS »

RSR wrote: 03 Apr 2021, 17:47 I do not think, SS took any lady as a disciple. Check up.
Maybe not directly, but Veena Dhanmmal's grandmother Kamakshi studied under Subbaraya Shastri, son of SS.

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by RSR »

p-8
@MaheshS
=====
Yes. I have read so. I am talking about SS and TS only.

sureshvv
Posts: 5523
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by sureshvv »

I know you mean well and all but as we know, the road to hell is paved with noble intentions, So here is my 2 naya paise.

Most contributions to art or science are by committed individuals whose passion exceeds in large measure those of their peers. My suggestion to you is to focus your research on these individuals (many who may not have seen the fame or fortune they deserve) regardless of their community.

shankarank
Posts: 4043
Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by shankarank »

It is also important to point out, out there other than few brand names, most people who show up know nobody else! If you mention just the name of a slightly less popular artiste, they will ask who is he/she?

Does that mean all the unknown's contribution are not recognized? People in the system knew well and as soon as internet era started, people started talking about all of them including those , the subject of this thread!

When you ostracize words like "caste" you cannot even talk about it! Similarly when you ostracize other words, you cannot mention them!

That was the climate created by learned elites and buddhi jIVis (a.k.a intellectuals!) in India. It will be talked about only when they want to discuss some agenda! You cannot otherwise invoke them!

RSR
Posts: 3427
Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Contributions of the Devadasi and Isai Vellalar communities to Carnatic Music

Post by RSR »

This caste-related approach in relation to Carnatic music is a thing of the past. It was existing only upto 1950, so far as I know in TamizhNaadu. Serious students of social movements in India after 1947, would have observed that except in Tamilnadu, in all the other states, people still use their caste sur-names . whatever be their socio-political orientation. Yes. Even in KeraLa, West Bengal especially.
where almost all the parties' personalities , including the far-left, are mukerjees, banerjess, chalterjees, gangulys ..Almost all the anti-caste social reformers and even revolutionaries in Bengal till today are from these castes.
.
The temple-dancer tradition has been abolished since many decades back. even before 1940. And there are 'castes within castes' -('wheels within wheels;) an endless hierarchy mindset.
Social cohesion is achieved only by an ideal shared by all communities forgetting their accident of birth. Religious music can be such a uniting force. Reading some of the songs of Purandaradasa , in translation, I find them immensely inspiring. Kanakadas poems may be even more helpful.

The more we keep thinking of Carnatic music in relation to brahmins and Isai-velaaLar communities, we are standing in the way of spreading it all over the land to all the communities. Some of the leading film-musicians like MKT and TMS were from other communities. Film world has many such personalities.
People with sound knowledge of Kannada , Telugu and Sanskrit can do research in collecting and translating the keerthans of Kanakadasa , Ramadasa and Mysore Sadasiva Rao and Vasudevachar.
Must be placed in the web. Brief biographical sketch would do. just to relate them in their historical slot.

Again and again, I pray that we avoid associating any musician with any community, in TN. Why not a research on Sheik Moulana Sahib, Jesudas, from other religions and communities?

Post Reply