Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

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sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

By parivadini, in Tamil

https://solvanam.com/2020/11/08/%e0%ae% ... %e0%af%8d/

Thanks to parivadini.

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by RSR »

Dear Sir, Thank you for giving the correct link. It is a very nice interview and should reach all the CM lovers in our forum and outside. Kindly post a translation in English In this thread itself. You can do it very easily with your command over the language and CM idiom. Regards.

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

A carnatic music conversation: with Vidushi Seetha Narayanan

By Lalitha Ram
Nov 8 2020

Even though I grew up in Perambur (a suburb of Chennai) and had a lot of opportunities in my youth to listen to VSN, I didn't make much of it. I wasn't that interested in CM back then. She wasn't one of the key artistes that I sought after, after I got a taste either. 2014, that's when I started listening to her. The novelty and imagination within the the boundaries and subdued music, that pulled me in.

Had written about her Academy concert of 2016 in the blog*. Had mentioned that "will collect more information and write about in 2017". Even so, I could meet with her only in 2018. And even then, many a times had stopped writing it for "What use as anything I can write I can't bring out the sweetness and the mellifluousness" would put paid to my effort to write it up. The things that she spoke should be recorded for posterity also was the other side of the coin, that made me uncomfortable for not having written. Long story short, even though it was quite a long conversation, I have written it up all since what she spoke about was rich.

* viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28617.

LR: Lets start with your childhood/youth.

SN: I was born in Jamshedpur. My father had graduated in Engg when one could land a job with just 8th/10th level of education. My family had migrated to Jamshedpur from Palakkadu even in his times. I and my sisters were born in Jamshedpur.

LR: When were you born>

SN: 1941. (She is ~80!) Jamshedpur is not as green and isn't endowed with the natural bounty as Kerala. What was available there made the migrants yearn for their native place.

LR: Was CM available?

SN: Neither before I was born nor after, I am not aware of any such opportunities. To learn either. My good forutne, a SSI sishya who did gurukulavAsam with SSI came to Jamshedpur. He was my first guru.

LR: His name?

SN: Kasi Viswanatha Bhagavathar. He studied in Swati Tirunal Academy and underwent gurukulavAsam with SSI. He came to Jamshedpur as his in-laws and their relatives were there. So I got an opportunity to be tutored; to start with basics and improve to be a performing artiste.

LR: When did you start your tutelage under him?

SN: Around 7-8 years of age. Had learnt a bit even before that. There were families that had migrated from Palakkadu and Thanjavur. They had a yearning for their roots. Even though they were in Jamshedpur for their livelihood, they were looking for the next opportunity to hear a karaharapriyA or when TNR could be invited. Recently the sabhA that they started celebrated its centenary. I took part in the celebrations and performed. So artistes such as ARI, DKP, MS would come there. Back then, it was not customary to arrange accomodation in hotels. As my uncle was a bit of a local VIP, the artistes will be put up in his home. They will teach the kids few songs then. Few teachers from Andhra used to visit Jamshedpur to teach music as there was no one to teach in Jamshedpur. But none stayed for long. So even though I had an intro to CM through them, I learnt formally under Kasi Viswanatha Bhagavathar.

LR: Which sabha has been active for a century in Jamshedpur?

SN: Its called Madarasi Sammelani. Started in 1917 (before MA?). The womenfolk of the migrant families from South India organized themselves in the name Dakshina Bharatha Mahila Samaj under this Sabha; they shared their knowledge with others; specifically to children. They started Tamil School too. Besides basic reading and writing, it paved a way to get acquainted with tholkAppiyam, silappadikAram too. That sabha has established itself well, grown and is continuing its good work. That the majority of the members were from South India has changed now. Now it is mostly those born in Jamshedpur. One cant claim that they are attracted to CM as their ancestors and the older generations.

LR: Lets come back to early days of music training.

SN: As I said, my family, including aunts and uncles and such close relations, had migrated to Jamshedpur from Palakkadu. So there was no necessity to travel to South India for family functions. And it wasn't that easy to travel frequently in those days. Took lot of effort and interest in keeping the traditions and culture. They used to be so happy to have caught a kalyANi or kAmbhOji in the radio in the midst of all other issues. Thus the arrival of the teacher was much useful to us. Lot of us learnt under him. It was my good fortune that I got to learn for more than 10 years from him.

LR: Has anyone been into music in your family even before you?

SN: My mother had a good voice and she was interested in music. Neither did she want to be a performing artiste nor did she have a training to be so, she had good knowledge and grasp of what qualifies for good music. My uncle was interested in music too. My elder sister had a very good voice. None trained with the intention to be performing artiste though.

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: Were you interested since your early childhood?

SN: My mother used to say that I could faithfully reproduce what I heard. Even before I started to learn, may be as I was listening to my sisters training/practice, I could notate what I heard naturally. I recall one thing while on that subject. I think it was a bengAli dance programme. I went with my sisters to that programme. We were discussing about that on return and a song from that programme was recalled as very good. When mother asked "Which song was that", since I wasn't familiar with the language, I could not say that. But I could sing it in swaras (dhAtu?). So I can't grasp how I could have done that when I wasn't trained.

LR: Did you get chances to sing in some events/programmes?

SN: Shankara Jayanthi used to be celebrated grandly in Jamshedpur. Upanyasam and concerts by big artistes used to be arranged. They will give an opportunity for local talents on one day. Lot of local talents will sing then. I have adamantly claimed to let me sing in that when I was 3 1/2 years old. They let me sing thinking she won't let anyone else if not. This film song 'ap thErE sivA mErA krishna kanhaiya' was popular then. I had sung it in full. Lot of people who were there then recall it when we meet again.

Sammelani used to organize and celebrate thaippUsam, rAmanavami & navarAtri. I used to get opportunity to sing and compete. I still remember that I sang for the flag hoisting in 1947 on Independence. A Rao from Andhra used to teach kids then. He trained my sister and few other peers on a song. I used to accompany wherever my sister went. So I was with here. When they started, they got confused - perhaps the pressure of being on a stage or forgot the song. But I sang the rest of the song from where they left off.

LR: Was this before you started training with Kasi Viswanatha Bhagavathar?

Yes. Till his arrival, somebody or other will come now and then to teach. They will leave in few months. When he came, it was a talk of the town that a good teacher has come. He will start teaching at 4 in the morning and go on till late in evening. Lots will come to learn from him. I and 10-15 peers went to Sammelani to learn from him. Having listened to him teaching others, I will sing the early lessons when my turn arrives.

On the day he started to teach alankArams, he wrote down the first line of the alankarams and said we will finish the rest next week. He was astonished when I went back the next class after having filled up the rest of the lines based on the first pattern. He was wondering if I had already been trained on that. I told, no, I wrote the rest based on the first pattern. He left it at that. Then started to teach varnams. After 10-15 classes he visited our home one day.

He had told my parents "Send her not to Sammelani. She learns very fast and so sits idle the rest of the time. I will come teach here at home. She is very talented".

My family was worried about little more expense on that and so pushed it to later. Even then, he used to insist continually and at a point he said, "Forget money. Let me teach here". Since he was so insistent, my family accepted it. He was very happy. He taught me some big kritis, like 'endarO mahAnubAvulu'

LR: He started with big kritis when you were young/in early days of training?

SN: Yes. Even then my voice was in a good condition. I have heard many opine that I never had sung in the voice of a child. So he started teaching me bhairavi swarajathi too then itself. By the time I was 12, he had taught me srI subrahmanyAya namastE, srI kanthimadhIm and the 4 ratnams except the varALi one. In total about 100 kritis or so.

I think the method he followed is the correct way, when I teach others now. I don't teach children in a way different to others. Even when I teach the swarajathi sAmba sivAyanavE in khamAs, I teach with all the nuances of khamAs. Let them pick what they can. I don't believe in simplifying it earlier and then change it.

My mother used to complain, "She doesn't practice after classes". He will aver "I have no complaints. She sings pretty well as I have taught". It appears I should have been more interested and have made more hay when the sun shone naturally.

LR: So you didn't practice after classes?

SN: I will grasp it all when he teaches. Someone asked Zakir Hussain when he came: "That there are folks that practice for 18 hours in North India". Zakir Hussain has replied "Some one may well die of that practice. Practice is for 1 - 2 hours. The rest of the time is to sink in/on the music, what is learnt.". I concurred. As my sister used to go Sammelani to learn, I will also go with her. I will listen to what the others were being taught. So even though I didn't plan it to be so, one could say music was ever thus coursing through me.

LR: So music bloomed within you naturally.

SN: Yes. I liked to set tunes and sing even when I was young. Even when I didn't know about the grammar of a rAgam or if a phrase is correct or not, I used to be interested in tuning.

CRama
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Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 16:58

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by CRama »

Sankark, Thanks your painstaking efforts to translate this long interview. Lot of members will be benefitted now.

rajeshnat
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by rajeshnat »

Mods
Merge this thread to vidushi thread.
Let all things related stay at one place for better indexing and tracing in future where people have no way to hit this link in general discussions. l Also i put this interview few days back now Sankark lovely effort let it get merged and stay there

RSR
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Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by RSR »

@sankark
Wonderful work Sir! As it is , a few more passages remain to be done. So, add ('to be continued').
Kindly give a link in musicians section under Sita Narayanan
No harm in duplicating in both sections. Most visited and viewed section is 'general discussion' This offers better visibility.
Thank you very much for acceding to my request.

sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: Do you remember those tunes you did?

SN: Yes. There used to be many competitions in school. Without my consent, the school has enrolled me in a bhajan competition. So I set some verses of Surdas in Desh (sings it). Don't know if I had put this many sangathis then and sang it. But this was the basic structure. This got the first prize.

I recall another tune. Each class will get their turn to sing in School prayer. Three songs would alternate. Won't be in unison. I penned a verse and set it to tune, and sang with few more classmates. That received a big welcome. No one believed that I penned and set the tune.

After this, in about 10 days I got an invite. There was a Jain temple behind our house. A svEtambar jain will do discourses every day. Before the discourse a prayer would be sung. Some gujarati's in my vicinity took me there and asked me to sing. I sang the song I mentioned earlier. That verse had this lyric too - 'is jIvanki yAtrA mE thum banO hamAri saha yAtri'. The jain monk asked me who gave this verse to you. He didn't believe that I penned it. He couldn't believe that a 13 year old girl could ask the Lord to be a co-traveler along in the journey of life. When I claimed that it was my own, he said that day's discourse will be about that line. Those from the vicinity that took me there were proud. My folks were astonished as well when they heard of this. They didn't know that I can pen and set tune too, till then.

LR: Interesting. Did you continue doing that?

SN: No. Now and then used to help kids in their competitions through new lyrics/tunes but didn't delve deep into that.

LR: Lets come back to your tutleage. You guru, will he teach only kritis/keerthanais?

SN: No. He used to teach on Manodharma sangeetham too. Jamshedpur won't have many knowledgable artistes. Opportunities for performing is very less. People with a thirst for learning in depth is also less. So my teacher there was an exception. Providence. As I used to grasp what he taught easily, while others were struggling with basics too, he was very interested to teach me ragam elaboration, nereval, kalpana swaram too. As he was college educated, he also taught me basics of music theory. He arranged for me to sing in functions like thyAgaraja utsavam.

LR: Do you remember your first performance?

SN: When I was 12, I gave my first performance. 1 hour duration. Mayavaram Krishnamurthy, a local violin vidwan accompanied me. There was a mention of that in the magazine Kalki too.

LR: Did that follow with many more?

SN: Not really. Used to sing now and then in whatever opportunities came my way

Rest after another break.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by Nick H »

@sankark, Many thanks for the translation :)

sankark
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: Many artistes call out the impact of the music that they heard in early days. Did you get to hear a lot of concerts when you were young?

SN: Not much opportunities to listen when I was young. Very infrequently those that visit Calcutta will visit Jamshedpur and perform. And it wasn't that easy to arrange nAdaswaram in South Indian marriages and other functions. Same recordings will be played mostly, about 20 of them. From that I could absorb the songs and their nuances of MLV, MS & NCV, DKP. I got opportunities to listen a lot in Bombay Shanmukhananda, once I moved there after my marriage. I got to listen to ARI, Alathur & MS and other stalwarts.

LR: When did you shift to Bombay?

SN: I think 1958. I got married soon. My husband was working in Indian Railways, West.

LR: Did you continue your musical training in Bombay?

SN: No. For those 13 years I lived there, I wasn't actively learning. Though I wasn't away from music - I used to tune the tambura and practice what I had learnt; to forget it not.

LR: 13 years, thats a big gap, isn't it?

SN: So it appears now. It took me some time to adjust to the pace of Bombay, having shifted there from a small town. The daily chores and kids took most of the time. Those days, they just flew.

LR: Was your husband into CM?

SN: One can't say so, atleast initially. It grew as he got to listen to my practice. He will encourage me. He will arrange things just so I can continue to grow. He likes rAgams like sAma. Over time, he learnt a lot through listening. He developed himself to a level where he can distinguish between a Shyama Sastri kriti and a Subbaraya Sastri kriti.

LR: The hiatus ended you started to train again when you shifted to Madras, is that correct?

SN: Yes. My husband got transferred to Madras in 1970. His manager was named Rao. Before we left Bombay, Rao visited us one day. It was my practice to sing ragam, nereval and swaram as part of my daily practice. I continued my practice unaware that Rao has come. My maid had let him in and settled him in the living room. He waited patiently till I finished my practice. He was surprised that I could sing well. After we shifted to Madras, he brought Nagercoil Harihara Iyer to our home one fine morning. I am learning from him after my retirement. I asked him to teach you too. I want you to perform next year at my home after an year of more training. His good will and wishes, I got graded as an artiste in AIR. I performed at his home as per his wish too. Then I realized that I could still learn, grow and get opportunities to perform too. Till then I was just into practicing what I had learnt, not forget it. Wasn't that keen on performances.

LR: Harihara Iyer was the brother of Nagercoil Ganesa Iyer, wasn't he?

SN: Yes. Ganesa Iyer was a mridangam player. Harihara Iyer plays violin. He has played for ARI, MS and other stalwarts. Sings well too. He taught me a lot of nuances and intricacies. Structuring rAgam elaboration, setting up a kOrvai, kuraippu singing, he taught me all that. He fixed some of my issues - 'simmEhndra madhyamam shows up during shanmukapriyA. nereval has to be still more tight' - and showed me the right path. I learnt about 40 kritis from him - sahajaguna rAmachandrA, inta kannAnandamEmi, koluvamaragEda, thanayuni brOva, kAnakkaN kOdi - and others. I believe he said tht he learnt from his grandfather and/or father. But he had taken ARI as his guru and absorbed that style. So, as I got to know SSI's bAni from Kasi Viswanatha Bhagavathar, I got the chance to understand ARI's bAni through Harihara Iyer.

LR: In a fashion then, could one say that this was the reason that your rAgam and swarams are short and captures the essence a la ARI?

SN: I wouldn't say that that is the one reason, or I don't know. I don't like to keep building up like building things with lego blocks. My preference is to keep it to the point even it be a short elaboration or swarams.

LR: Could you learn for a long time under Harihara Iyer.

SN: About 3 - 4 years. He shifted to Singapore in 1974 as he got an good opportunity there.

LR: Who did you continue to learn from after that?

SN: We had a family friend, Narayanasamy. He will keep singing, whatever be the chore. So much into music he was. He avered that I had a good voice and sings sans issues. But was weak on musicology and to shine as an artiste thats also necessary. And thus he guided me to a PK Rajagopala Iyer. Narayanasamy said that PK Rajagopla Iyer is like a diamond that wasn't yet noticed.

LR: Where did PK Rajagopla Iyer live?

SN: He was in Ambattur. I will go by bus to Ambattur once the daily chores are done. He was a Tiger's disciple. He didn't perform but his depth of music was great. He had a lot of rare books. I have seen a manuscript by Walajapet Venkataramana Bhagavathar's of Thyagaraja's kritis. Some of the rare books were 'vAcaspathyam', 'pAninIyam', etc.

LR: What do you mean by Musicology?

SN: Not the syllabus available in MA Musicology. He used to provide details around who penned/tuned the kriti, their history, specifics about that kriti, the trigger for that kriti, the history of that ragam, are there any specifics in the using that ragam in that kriti, etc. So, its more applied musicology. As I was of the mind that I had lost lot of time, I didn't go deep into theory. I focused on the aspects of theory that helped me sing, and well.

LR: Please elaborate a little more.

SN: Take kanakAngi, ratnAngi and gAnamUrthi, the mElakartas as example. I stop at what swarams and their names. I didn't get into the frequency of those swarams or the mathematical models/limits of their gamakams.

LR: How will his classes be strucutured.

SN: No structured classes. He will talk a lot spontaneously on various subjects. I will listen. When I come back home after that, it will appear as if coming back to a different world. (laughs) Some days he will teach a kriti and talk about that. I learnt kAmbhOji koniyAdina from him. He discovered thee rAgams. He also taught me the songs he had tuned in those rAgams

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: What were those ragams?

SN: Anandavalli, skandamanOramA, karpUrabharaNi. One can't discover new ragams just like that those days. They will be taken for discussion in Academy and then given a blessing. These ragams got that blessing.

LR: Could you please add more details about them?

SN: karpUrabharaNi - close to vijayaNagari (s r g p m p d s' - s' d p m p g r s). He made a varNam in that. The hamsanAdam as practiced today lacks dhaivatham. It used to have dhaivatam. He called the current hamsanAdam as skandamanOramA. He penned a kriti on a person, mounaswAmi, of Ambattur in Anandavalli. That was a janyam of s'madhyamam.

I recall his gambIranAttai kriti, sri gambIra nAtya ganapatE, as we are on that topic. This kriti has chittai swarams too. if you split those into 4 parts, they will be of similar structure be it sung as 1-2-3-4 or 4-3-2-1. When I sing that in concerts, people will ask if that is a MD kriti but there is no guruguha signature.

He had penned a chatusra ata kriti in chakravAham, 'chandrasEkarEndra saraswathi' on kAnchi periyaVa. I got blessed by HisHoliness when I sang it in HisHoliness' presence.

Mention must be made of another very important lesson I learnt from him. Singing tisram in pallavis and other such things were a little hard. He said, the basics are only practiced in first, second and third speeds; but not in tisram. It will be beneficial if those are also practiced in tisram. That was a big help

LR: Were you performing concerts too then?

SN: Yes. My husband also got very interested in music. So we will go to a lot of concerts. I like KVN's nereval very much. We will go wherever his performance was. I also got few opportunities my way. I got offers to continually perform in ICF Perambur Shanmukananda Sabhai. I used to sing in Perambur Sangeetha Sabha, Temple Concerts, etc. Once I started to sing in AIR, I got opportunities outside of Madras too. Bangalore, Raichur, Guntakkal, Hubli, many places in Kerala etc. called me to perform

NV Subramanian was working in Railways. He provided me few opportunities through his Saraswathi Vaggeyakara Trust. There was a mridganga vidwan Thiruvaiyaru Gurumurthy, that was working in Railways. He had a student, Suresh. Will play well. He will come to our home to practice. His father was in HR&CE. Through his father, there were few opportunties that materialized - to sing in Golden Chariot festival of Pazhani Temple, Navaratri festival in Madurai Meenakshi temple and few other temples.

LR: Could you balance between the day to day family life and performances outside the city?

SN: Will agree to performances only during the weekends. I was clear that because of my music, there should be no adverse impact on kids education or other family commitments.

LR: You sing a lot of unheard bhajans. When did you start that?

SN: Perhaps because I came from North, lot of Railway Colony folks approached me to teach them bhajans. I knew a few Meera bhajans then. What can be taught with just that? Then my mother told me about a Ramamoorthy Rao, that used to live near Binny (Binny Mill.). That he sings bhajans fantabulously. So I approached him - he was talented in both HM & CM. One can liken his singing to a fireworks in absolute dark room. His imagniation will continue to grow as he keeps singing. One problem is that he will get bored if one can't absorb and play back what he sings/teaches. How many of the Railway Colony can keep pace, those that had come to learn as a hobby?

So I approached it so - let him sing. lets not ask him to sing again till we get it and he loses his patience. i will teach you all separately - and that worked well.

He taught us Soundarya Lahari shlOkams, set to tune in 100 CM/HM ragams, alternating between these two. He has used rare HM ragams like gOrakkalyAN, panchamasrI and kalAsri etc. in that.

Taught few bhajans in the style of thumri. He showed the way on tuning and singing shlOkams. It helps a lot nowadays in taking an appropriate shlOkam and preceding a kriti with that. He also showed how to be expressive when singing a kriti instead of just as a swara sequence.

Rest after another break.

Wish you all a happy deepavali. Ganga snaanam aachaa?

Let thousand fireworks brighten the sky!

sankark
Posts: 2321
Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 09:10

Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: When did you start doing programms with bhajans as the only focus?

SN: Even before we shifted to Madras, TS Parthasarathy had retired from Railways. I had written an article under the title "Bhajans - bridging North and South" in a souvenir by a Madurai Sabhai. Parthasarathy Mama called me having read that. He asked if I could do a lecdem in Academy on that topic.

So my first entry into Academy was for that lecdem. It happened under that year SK KVN. Academy tried a new lighting setup - the stage will be lighted up but those on the stage won't know who is in the audience. That be so, I think I was bold to do that lecdem with many experts in that audience.

Other than the well known Meerabai, Surdas, I also took others - like Krishnabhakta Kavi, Ramabhakta Kavi & few Islamic poets - and prepared for that lecdem. It was received well. I have conducted many an events on NI bhajans. Perhaps I was born in Jamshedpur for this.

LR: Do you believe that you would have been like other performing artistes if you had been born here in Madras?

SN: I don't think I am unlike others, even now. But I never went after opportunities to perform. SSI's concert was scheduled after mine once. I performed at 4 pm. SSI had come when I was on the stage. Lalgudi and Vellore were the accompanists for SSI that day. They were all in the green room and then beckoned me after my performance got over. He enquired who I am and where I was hidden all these days. He appreciated very much the sAma that I sang that day.

I think it would have been a natural follow through that I would have gone to visit him and ask him to recommend for concerts. I didn't do so. Perhaps I thought it would be indignity if I had asked and nothing fructified. I take those opportunities that come my way; never have I gone after an opportunity.

A popular artiste that I know had asked a young chap "Do you go after lot of concerts". He said, 'Yes, I go wherever I can and listen'. The artiste said, 'No, no. Not what I meant. Do you go after opportunities to perform?'. That's the way it is in the CM performances.

(laughs).

I doubt if those that go to lot of concerts, do they get time to delve deep and think through what they have heard.

You can't set aside some time in a day to think through. Ideas splash now and then - when you boil the milk for example. It appears to me that learning in good pAdantharam is important. Learning so acts as a catalyst for manOdharmam. A well known kriti will open up a new vista at an unexpected moment.

LR: Let's come back to your training. How long did you train with PK Rajagopala Iyer?

SN: For about 3 - 4 years. He couldn't continue after that.

LR: And then you went to SK S Ramanathan?

SN: Indeed. I thought it would be beneficial to train with someone that had concert experience. That it would help me understand perform along with accompanists; how to gauge the audience needs and reaction and such. When I was searching for such a guru, my friend Shyamala, sister of Yagnaraman, trustee of KGS asked me to join them as they were all training under S Ramanathan. Ramanathan had just then come back from Wesleyan. There was news about that too. He had a reputation as "Musician's Musician". I hesitated much if he would train me. I got the nerve as Shyamala gave me assurance that if he was training them, he will surely train me too, as I also had AIR grading too.

LR: When was that?

SN: I think it was 1981. I still recall as it just happened now, the first time I went to his home. He was teaching his students upstairs. He was surrounded all around by his students, even in the staircase. Till then I used to have one on one sessions; so this was a novelty for me.

He asked me to sing after the classes. I sang evarUrA in mOhanam. He liked it very much and then asked me come the next day onwards. Didnt expect that to be so easy. I trained under him till until he passed away.

LR: What was his methodology?

SN: There were 7-8 others along with me. Our classes were from 10 to 11 every day. He will just keep singing sans let - be it ragam or nereval. Its upto us to listen and grasp to our ability.

I notate the kritis and use that when I teach today. I don't think he did so, ever. He will teach anything that a student asks for, no hesitation. I learnt more than 100 kritis from him. I understood to an extent what manodharmam ia from him. He could sing a vasantA as he could do a kAmbhOji. One can understand the way to sing a ragam, how to bring the ragabhavam out in a kriti's sangatis (illustrates with inta sowkyam aninE in two ways. the first is just the swara notation based and the second one in the Ramanathan bani to bring out the ragabhavam), how to maintain continuity between two sangati's in a nereval etc. by listening to him perform.

The think I liked about him is that, he will never utter any negative comment, however they sing it. But he will make one understand that the way they have done is not apt.

One day he was teaching us a sindhubhairavi kriti, 'bhavabaya haram'. That song had a surfeit of durita kAla sangathis.
One of our group was shaking her head so much that her jimikkis were dancing in glee. He used that occasion to illustrate that the sangathi's come from the throat., It was a big lesson for me.

He will do nereval and swarams too in the classes. And each one of us will return that. He will say "Don't think of what to sing on my turn while others sing. If so then you won't grasp what is being sung. Good music requires one to be a good listener". He will take 'mAnikya makuta valayadhara' in bAlagOpala to show case soft and hard aspects of the swarams/nereval etc. He will say only if you listen you can grasp and understand that. Now, I am afraid to teach that sangathi. That I will spoil mine and adapt that sangathi (laughs)

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: In general, those that researched music would have in depth knowledge in thamizh or samskritam. S Ramanathan had indepth knowledge in both and also a performing artiste. That way he was an unique individual in CM world. Wasn't he?

SN: Ofcourse he was. He knew a lot but he never showcased that. Could have learnt even more from him. Will teach anything you ask for. Feel sad that I didn't know enough to ask then. I came to know that he has penned many kritis only after his demise. Have you listened to his angayarkkaNNi varNam (sings it).

LR: The question arises in me when you sang that. There is an accusation that CM artistes don't have a cultured voice. Those that listen to you can discern clear sruthi adherence, clarity in sangathis and mandra panchamam filling one's ears heavily, that has become a rarity nowadays. You could sing anything nonchalantly without any visible effort. Do you indulge in any special practice to make it so?

SN: Just a divine gift I think. I had lost my voice totally between 1964 and 1968. I was in Bombay then and so no concert performances but struggled a lot. Voice apparatus will get stuck even if I sing a little. Voice won't be audible even. ENT specialists couldn't do anything. Homeopathy was quite popular in Calcutta and Jamshedpur. Through family network we went to a doctor. He directed us a Father Muller Hospital near Mangalore. He asked us to write to them and that they will send medicines through post. We wrote and received the medicines. No improvement even after 3 months. When I thought this also didn't work, fortunately I got my voice back. I started to sing at 3 kattais then. Some one opined that I should go to a higher pitch, to suite a female voice. I gradually shfited to 4.5 and 5 kattai and I could do so without any trouble.

I don't do anything special to maintain my voice. I could say that I used it well rather than abuse it. I could sing for 3 hours even after a 3 hour concert. But when I speak even for 10 mins, voice gets tired. Shouting or even laughing uproariously would impact the voice, I think. In our CM, need to emphasize the voice in ragam elaboration or in sahitya portions. That definitely stresses our voice. Take HM - when they sing taans, its less from nAbhi/throat and more from the mouth. But we can't do so. When you sing jantai, the second swaram should come from the throat (illustrates with her hand on the throat)

LR: Do you have any special diets?

SN: Acidity of stomach will impact the voice, so it is being told. I don't know much about that. I had to undergo angio in 2012 and so brought my sruti to 4 kattai. And after a while when I brought it back to 5 kattai, Violin Mullaivasal Chandramoulsi said that 4 sounds so mellifluous and so why go to 5. So now I sing at 4. The sruti which enables you to easily traverse from low panchamam (mandra) to mel panchamam (thara) is the right sruti for a singer, isn't it?

Chengelpet Ranganathan used to claim, 'If there were mikes and other audio paraphernalia in earlier days, our old masters would have had better longevity'.

Yet more - about 25% still left - after a while.

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: You learnt from him too, isn't it?

SN: Yes. Learnt from him after Ramanathan Sir's demise. Listened to a radio concert of his and it occured to me that I should learn from him. He consented. I said, 'I feel a bit weak in pallavis. I want to learn''. He asked, 'Do you want to learn 10 pallavis and carry your entire life on that through rote learning & recordings. Or you could go deep and then be able to handle any pallavi. What do you desire?'

When I said I opted for deep learning, he asked 'Do you know mOhana varnam?'. For 6 months, one I said yes, for 6 months mOhana varnam was the focus of lessons. I practiced singing the same with various eduppus (1 thalli, 2 thalli, 3 and so on). 4 kaLai thALam and I still reckon it as he taught, with all the 4 kaLais reckoned in just one tap. I practiced varnams in trikAlam, tisram with 4 kaLai tAlam reckoning for about 6 months.


LR: Your nAsikAbhUshani pallavi in Academy is still ringing in my ears. Did you set it since Vidush Kanyakumari was awarded SK that year, to bring her name into that pallavi?

SN: Not really. A few years ago, Radha Venkatachalam, a disciple of TRS asked if I can fill in for a vidwan they had arranged as that vidwan couldn't meet the obligation. 2 days before the even. And that was a RTP concert with the pallavi being in nAsikAbhUshani. I asked that I be let to sing a kriti in that rAgam and a pallavi I was comfortable with. I said I didn't have enough window to prep a new pallavi. They didn't agree. This pallavi occured just a few moments after the conversation was over. By the time I called back they had arranged someone else. I used that pallavi when I performed in Academy later.

LR: You had presented many astonishing things, when one thinks through later, nonchalantly for a merry enjoyment.

SN: Ranganathan Sir used to say, thats how it should be. It should appear easy to the listener, whatever the complexity of it be. In addition to pallavi training, I learnt a lot of keerthanais from him too.

LR: Alathur bani of keerthanai padantharam is also unique, wasn't it?

SN: Indeed, That the sangathi's blossom step by step one after other is their uniqueness. An unexpected sangathi will just appear in the normal flow. It will take it to a different plane (she illustrates a sangati in sarasija lOchana of krpayA pAlaya shaurE). I learnt rAma nI samanamevaru from Harihara Iyer, Rajagopala Iyer and Ranganathan Sir - Ranganathan Sir's sangathis are unique to his pAdantharam

Other than pallavis and keerthanais, I got a good hold on nereval through his tutelage. I learnt the way to structure the nereval step by step from the place one takes for nereval. Frequently one can hear first and third kAla nerevals, Second kAla nerevals are rare. He trained to sing in all the three (distinguishes the nereval in three kAlams at kantiki sundara). And he will get the odukkals that are unique to him, those that one can't anticipate.

LR: How long did you train under him?

SN: 1988 through 2008. When I went back to look at the notes I took then, I found I have learnt about 500 kritis from him. He has composed tillAnA's in all the 35 sulAdi sapta tALas. He taught them to me.

LR: So far your elaborated on your own learning. When did you start teaching?

SN: I was hesitant till my husband was employed. For those that are in high posts in Government, there are certain constraints. We came to Madras after he took VRS at last when we were in Chittaranjan. Lot of students approached me then. I started teaching since then

LR: At present, especially in vocal CM, there is a preponderance of female artistes vis-a-vis male artistes. In generations earlier to yours, it was a socially unacceptable practice for womenfolks to be performing except those that had come in such lineage. From a generation that bridges these two, how do you take this?

SN: These are not sudden changes. They happen at a slow pace. Only when you look back one would perceive the quantum of change. There are differences galore between the generation before mine and the current one. This change is a welcome one. Important one.

LR: Could you compare and contrast them, a bit more specific?

SN: These many keerthanais weren't in currency then. Even if they had learnt, each artiste had a set of kritis and they stuck to that set. Now lot of new keerthanais have gained currency. Take Sanjay Subrahmanyan - he brings out lot of new ones. Sahityam wasn't given much emphasis in those days either, or it appears so. And the practitioners weren't interested in theory and had that much interest in theory either. Not that they sang wrong. I am talking about interest in theory. May be the focus now on theory is because of the loss of gurukula tradition and institutionalized learning. The audience that come today also have learnt a lot; they ask a lot of questions.

It occurs to me that the kalpanaswaram aspect has become kalpita one. One gets to hear what has been rehearsed a lot. I wonder if the different aspects of music, are they propotionate. Singing a kriti for 2 minutes and going on for 25 minutes on kalpanaswarams, one gets to see that too. The duration of kalpanaswaram is given more importance than to the actual content. Going up and down the scale has increased. One of my disciple asked me 'when will you teach me grsnd, rsndp?' (laughs). I just am not interested or agree to sing kalpanaswaram sans rAgabhAvam.

Ramanathan Sir would say 'One shouldn't linger on vivadhi swarams in such ragams'. Now lot of vivadhi ragams have gained currency and even vivadhi swarams are being treated as nyAsa swarams.

Concert duration has come down to two hours. Audience want to get home when the clock strikes 8 pm. Rangathan Sir is of the opinion that at the minimum a pallavi should be in 4 kaLai. How to accommodate a 4 kaLai pallavi in a 2 hour concert?

Not that all has become worse. What one likes in twenty will not be the same as at forty. What appears important to youth will fall away as they gain more experience. One should take that into account as well.

Change is inevitable. For that matter Thyagaraja has brought many a novelty during his time. As Meera says in one bhajan, we should be a sieve. Take and retain the good; let the rest go.

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

LR: When you look back on your life, what is your take on that?

SN: Grateful, that's what I feel when I look back. Madras is called the "Mecca of Canatic Music". I came here when I was thirty. Didn't compromise on my family commitments or time with my kids for the sake of music. Even then, I feel content that I am considered on par, with those that were born and brought up here. And respected.

LR: Do you feel that you should have been more popular? Given you have a good voice and music acumen.

SN: At times, in earlier days. Now I think that talent, opportunities and popularity are unrelated to each other. One gets what one is fated for on these three. Popularity doesn't mean talent and neither do all talented people get opportunity to showcase that.

I look back and evaluate if I had made the most of the opportunities and did my best to my ability. I don't change according the audience, 100 vs 10. I had given my best even if just a handful of folks were in the audience

One can't measure all that one got with popularity as the only scale.

Let me take an example. My mother lived to be 100. She lost her memory in her last days - she couldn't recognize even close relations. But the music didn't leave her. Once when I sang janani ninuvinA, I sang dikkevarammA after lOka janani ninuvinA. She interjected to say, sing 'trilOka janani'. She will listen to music with such happiness. I won't consider singing in Academy as the equal to singing for my mother. I think that is how it was in olden times, those stalwarts. Concerts are a recent, the last 100 or so year, developments, isn't it?

LR: It might a journey that you are content with. But as a rasika, I get vexed that you should have been more popular.

SN: One might need to do things for popularity. One should ascertain if one is ready to do so. Lets say I somehow sing in all popular/big sabhas. Its just not guaranteed that I will get called again next time because of the quality of my music. One should canvas a lot to get opportunities until one gets popular. And then once you are popular, the stress of staying there gets added. I think its better to be free to sing to my contentment where I get called.

Those gurus that I learnt from also approached music that way. Besides, can anyone ascertain what His will is?

Let me take an anecdote. The violinist Kovai Usha, she grew up in Perambur. I used to sing every year in Ayanavaram Kasi Viswanathar Temple. One year they had set Usha to accompany me. Their family brought her to me the next day and asked me to teach her as I sang well. They were in financial straits and she was blind. And so she couldn't be educated otherwise too.

I could have consented. But for some reason or rhyme, I asked them to approach PK Rajagopla Iyer as I was learning under him then. He accepted her and he also helped them through gettting her into the school for blind. In some time, my husband helped out a relative of Vidwan M Chandrasekaran. We mentioned about Usha to him when he contacted us. He invited Usha and having listened to her, accepted her as a student. She got a scholarship too and she improved in music and got gainful employment as a staff artiste of AIR Pondicherry. Could anyone have predicted this?

LR: Would it be right to say, you are more happy in learning and then steeping yourself in what is learnt more than performing?

SN: Not really. I am not content with just learning and experiencing that myself alone. I like to share that in performance too. I share information regarding that when I perform certain rare items on the concert stage.

Once I sang sabApathikku vEru deivam in Thamizh Isai Sangam. I sang it as 'orudharam sivachidambaram endRu uraiththAl pOdhumAm', per Ramanathan Sir padantharam. One asked me they also sing as 'orudharam sivachidambaram endRu uraiththAl pOdhumE', which is right?

I said, "I don't change what I was taught. I didn't ask him why he sang/taught so. When I think, when it is sung as pOdhumE it is basically GKB's statement. Whereas when sung as pOdhumAm, it appears as a respectful reaffirmation of what he had learnt from others. That appears more apt to me'. I am happy to share such nuggets and thoughts too.

LR: pOdhumAm appears as pOdhumA, as a meaningless question, too in some?

SN: That is because of not paying attention and giving the importance to the m-kAram. One should practice to give the stress there to that m.

LR: About 3 hours just flew, didn't realize that we have been conversing for 3 hours. One gets few recordings of your music on the net but no further details about you. I hope when I write this, the situation will improve. One gets information on the net only about a handful folks only.

SN: There is some psychology behind that, that only few appear in our vision. We always go to the familiar. Like I always look for a strepsil when I get throat discomfort. This is just like that.

LR: Thanks for taking the time for this conversation.

SN: Very happy I am to have done so.

Done.
Last edited by sankark on 15 Nov 2020, 14:03, edited 1 time in total.

shankarank
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by shankarank »

sankark wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 21:23 I said, 'I feel a bit weak in pallavis. I want to learn''. He asked, 'Do you want to learn 10 pallavis and carry your entire life on that through rote learning & recordings. Or you could go deep and then be able to handle any pallavi. What do you desire?'
Yes indeed! Do you want 10 stamps to collect or you want the philosophy? - No No no metaphors - no more :lol:

When Anju George led the Olympic team march, my friend joked - there are anju (the no 5 in tamizh slang ;) ) georges behind her! Why? Lack of Philosophy?

RSR
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by RSR »

@sankark
Great translation Sir. Thank you

Nick H
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by Nick H »

Thank you very much, @sankark.

PUNARVASU
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by PUNARVASU »

Very nice to read the Interview of Smt Seetha Narayanan. She was a family friend. My father, , ‘veeyenes’ who was a member here and wrote almost till his end, was the friend Narayanaswamy that Smt Seetha Narayanan mentioned. He was very proud of her and was a great well wisher of hers.
She has spoken wonderfully about her guru Shri Painganadu Rajagopala iyer of Ambattur.
I am proud to say that I also learnt from him. He was an ocean of musical knowledge and gave it freely to all the seekers.🙏🙏

sankark
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Re: Interview with Smt Seetha Narayanan

Post by sankark »

sankark wrote: 14 Nov 2020, 08:21 LR: What were those ragams?

SN: Anandavalli, skandamanOramA, karpUrabharaNi. One can't discover new ragams just like that those days. They will be taken for discussion in Academy and then given a blessing. These ragams got that blessing.

LR: Could you please add more details about them?

SN: karpUrabharaNi - close to vijayaNagari (s r g p m p d s' - s' d p m p g r s). He made a varNam in that.
that varnam in karpurabharaNi available https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM0_2K7 ... adiniMusic

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