Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

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msakella
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#1 Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

In the Mecca of Carnatic music, Chennai, the Music Academy very recently held a panel discussion on the Manodharma Sangita on 21-12-2013 and the cream of its reputed teachers and experts have participated in the proceedings. When I have gone through the relevant audio-file and the write up in Hindu (27-12-2013-The imagination curve) I came across some interesting lapses and, very sadly, the vital logical view is totally missing.

In it, very importantly, while a member of the panel sang a phrase ‘s p m G’ another member also sang ‘p s N’ of Dhanyasi-raga with a performers’ perspective only. To make an aspirant understand and follow such phrases easily they must be sung ‘s p m R2 m R2’ and ‘p s D2 s D2’ respectively with a teachers’ perspective only. But, very surprisingly and sadly, in the absence of the teachers’perspective, neither of these panel members nor these experts brought this vital point to the notice of this knowledgeable gathering. By all this it has again been proved that, like a Jaundice patient having only yellow vision, most of the professional musicians have only performers’ perspective only but not the teachers’ perspective at all.

More over, while raising the presently needed point of ‘modernity and tradition’, when Shri Pappu Venugopalarao very aptly brought out my ‘controversial’ reference also in quickening the process of teaching/learning music, indirectly indicating the present need of quickening the process, some how, the minimum duration of the process has very graciously been reduced to 15 years only by the honourable members. But, except spreading their tentacles all over the globe by Skype only to squeeze more money from the kids and their parents, no modern methods have ever been evolved by any of these conservatives in quickening the process of teaching/learning music. Even though many of the members have opined that there are no shortcut methods or cut and paste methods they all have failed to observe that it is not at all possible to build any building even without scaffolding. Ultimately, very sadly, except supporting and exceedingly praising the other members, this gathering could not bring out any modern methods in obtaining the Manodharma Sangita but to follow the age old tradition.

While there is a standard and logical grading system of training all over the globe in Western music, most unfortunately, our musicians, instead of evolving such a rational system in teaching/learning our music for the benefit of our kids and their parents, are encouraging different syllabi for different music examinations of different States all carrying a number of compositions.

In this modern age there is urgent need to reasonably quicken the process of teaching/learning music properly utilizing the modern technology and we, at our institution, Svara-bhangima and other branches at Secunderabad, are able to do the needful by very efficiently and successfully training more than 200 kids for the first time in the history.

In this process, basing upon the level of brilliance, the aspirants are able to sing intricate mathematical Svarakalpana along with brief Ragalapana within the duration of only one or two years after the completion of 10 Varnas (singing both the Purvanga and Uttaranga of all of them @ 4-6-8 notes per beat) and even without learning a single Kriti. In this system of training, right from the first day of learning, the aspirant himself/herself works hard and learns more than 90% of the subject on his/her own along with abundant self-confidence.

This modern, logical and qualitative system, in which the process of teaching/learning has very strictly been made ‘time-bound and result-oriented’, certainly benefits the kids and their parents also a lot by saving much of their time, energy and money. But, very sadly, the hardcore conservatives neither condemn this qualitative system nor do the needful to bring out more affective system than this. msakella

shashikiran
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#2 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by shashikiran »

Respected Sir
I don't think all panelists said no methods other than Skype existed.....in fact I spoke about innovating methods right from basics as manodharmam is a process and not just raga alapana or niraval or kalpana swarams or Pallavi singing....it is how we can make students approach music creatively and think logically, instead of being parrots. And also any teacher even live or Skype should have passion and should themselves have manodharmam even in their approach to teaching apart from true manodharmam in the music itself. However, mostly panel discussions tend to digress from the core issues and most times is incomplete and sometimes diplomatic rather then frank with due respects to the subject and panelists.
And Skype is not always about money making and not all gurus always look at money when they get good students. A good teacher will love to teach any student with interest even taking them from the Sa- Pa- Sa stage, as the skill of a great guru comes there.
I am not arguing your points but merely stating that not everything can be captured in a report or through one discussion where one gets hardly 5 mins of the 90 mins session.

msakella
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#3 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear learned brother,
To tell the fact, strictly basing upon logic, if the methods are truly innovative and followed truthfully in formulating right from the basics, in selecting the items up to the completion of Varnas and also in equally initiating the kid properly right from the first day of the music-lesson the aspirant certainly becomes able to sing even intricate Svarakalpana along with brief Ragalapana with very high level of self-confidence and success but not like a parrot. Even merely repeating the learned lesson or a mathematical-table or a canto of Veda like a parrot or writing imposition of the alphabets in the primary level is certainly needed in the beginning like the riding on a stepping stone to the person learning cycling. More over, it is most essential to note that even imitation is the first level of learning like a baby observing his/her parents and other family members in imitating them efficiently.

There is vast deference between an ordinary person committing theft and a police committing theft. In the same manner, in such educative discussion the reputed teachers or the experts must seriously mind to sing the respective phrases of any Raga in a manner to be useful to the aspirants. If it is not done it is just like a police committing theft.

From the beginning no student can have creativity or logical view but the teacher must be logic enough in initiating the aspirant in making him/her do things on her/her own for half-an-hour or one-hour in the class and also to continue the same even in the absence of the teacher in the remaining hours of the day. By very strictly implementing this plan and also by following a particular seriatim of the items already available in our system we are able to successfully and efficiently shape many kids sing intricate Svarakalpana and brief Ragalapana within a span of hardly 3 years after the completion of the Varnas and even before learning the first Kriti on their own. To tell the truth there is nothing new in this system which is not known to any musician but arranged in a specific manner.

Just like a person who prefers any dog going from either side of him but without biting him, the aspirants and their parents who are compelled to rely upon the available music-teachers, will not mind them with any passion or Manodharma, if they make the aspirants sing intricate Svarakalpana and brief Ragalapana within a span of 2 or 3 years even before learning the first Kriti. All our experts are always used to harp on learning 25 Varnas and 50 Kritis at the least to become able to sing Manodharma Sangita and all our students beyond any doubt proved it absolutely senseless. Even to learn them nobody needs to waste 15 years of his/her precious life.

Had any one of the panel members or even the organizers made it clear even in the beginning of the discussion about the digression from the core issue or the nice diplomacy to be maintained in the panel discussion I wouldn’t have cared either to get it recorded or to waste my time and energy to go through it at this old age.

Since 2008 I have been contributing number articles on teaching music under the sub-thread ‘AMS EASY METHODS 2007 CD - TEACHING & LEARNING METHODS’ of the main-thread ‘Music School’ of this forum. Two CDs of these Easy Methods have also been uploaded long ago to ‘sangeethamshare’ and, till now, including the videos of many talented students, I have uploaded more than 700 Videos to ‘youtube’, for the educational purpose and free-use of the aspirants unlike any other music-teacher on the globe. Simultaneously, I have also been appealing to our teaching community to utilise these easy methods for the benefit of our kids and their parents and also to upload the relevant videos of their talented students to inspire others. But, till now, not even a single music-teacher had ever uploaded even a single video of his/her talented students trained in this qualitative method in teaching music. This obviously reveals their dis-interest in following this modern system as it incurs heavy financial loss by reasonably quickening the process of teaching.

For example, I have started on-line teaching both Vocal & Violin to 7 years old Chi. Rishabh Ranganathan of Chicago on 01-06-2011 @ 2 classes per week on Skype. Later, his 6 years old cousin-sister Chi. Keerthana Madhu also joined on 10-09-2011 learning Vocal in the same manner from another city of USA. Within a span of 2 years both have completed 10 select Varnas singing and playing all of them @ 4-6-8 notes per beat and they have started learning Kritis on their own simultaneously singing intricate Svarakalpana and brief Ragalapana. Recently, in a competition held in USA, in which you yourself have acted as one of the Judges, you have very kindly encouraged Chi Rishabh Ranganathan by selecting him as the Americal-Idol in Carnatic music (Vocal) in sub-juniors’ category. Very recently on 27-12-2013 he played a mini-concert of 50 mts. also on Violin which was jointly held by Carnatica & Shri Parthasarathy Swamy Sabha in Chennai. The efficiency or otherwise of any system must be adjudged by the end result only and thus, this incident stands as the proof for the success of this great system of teaching which was showered upon me by the Almighty.

As no egoistic or ego-centric conservatives are there to obstruct our music activities here in the twin cities of Hyderabad & Secunderabad we, as a dedicated team, are working relentlessly for the cause of music getting amazing results. msakella

msakella
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#4 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

In another thread ‘Veena-the subtlest musical instrument’ and in another context our brother-member Chi. Chitravina Ravikiran used the word ‘unstandardised approach’. To tell the fact, in particular, very sadly, this applies to the method of teaching our music to our own kids just like cutting our own legs.

As also expressed by one of the members of the experts’ committee in this meeting every music-teacher has his/her own (unstandardised approach) method of teaching making the matters worse to the kids and their parents who are compelled to rely upon the available music-teacher. And this is obviously evident by the proceedings of this meeting.

The entire discussion in this meeting is irrational. I shall attend on my own and prove this if a meeting at the same place and with the same members, at the earliest, is arranged, giving me reasonable time to travel to this place. It is also desirable to arrange for the webcasting of the same for the benefit of the aspirants all over the globe.

This is not at all for any self-aggrandisement but to bring out the truth in the high interests of our music and our kids. msakella.

msakella
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#5 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Almost in the end of this panel discussion when Shri Pappu Venugopalarao tried to elicit the opinion of a member of the experts’ committee in respect of finishing the process of teaching/learning music within a short duration of 3 years as proposed by the ‘controversial Akella Mallikarjuna Sharma (me)’, she expressed that each and every teacher has his/her own method of teaching music. Later, ultimately, this panel finalized that the duration of 15 years is essential to become a ‘full-fledged musician’.

But, I, as a well-experienced music-teacher in Vocal & Violin getting amazing end-results, very strongly condemn this irrational and illogical discussion which in no way helped the present aspirants or their parents. In this connection I shall remain thankful if the following points are clarified with justification.

1. When I am controversial enough why the Mecca of Carnatic music, the Music Academy, proudly honoured me with the TTK Award for 2009 towards my contribution to the cause of music? When my services are considered to give me this award why I have not been invited to this rare discussion on Manodharma Sangita to submit my views to this august gathering? Among my truly innovative and effective methods in finishing the process of teaching/learning music within a short duration of 3 years and the presently finalized longer duration of 15 years, which one is rational, logical and truly helpful and which one is irrational, illogical and harmful to the aspirants and their parents and why and how?

2. There is nothing wrong if the house-wives have their own method in their regular cooking but the lunch must be served between 1 & 3 pm only but not at the time of supper. In the same manner the elderly people must strive hard in making things easier and earlier for our kids in which way all the parents in all the beings do.

It took 40 long years of my precious life to fully dig out the rare topic, Talaprastara. But, it is foolish to make our kids also study it for 40 long years of their lives. That is why I could finish it teaching to a brilliant student within 40 hours (not years).

3. What is the yardstick to assess a ‘full-fledged musician’ and how it is justifiable?

4. Why this ‘un-standardised approach’ has been maintained in many aspects of our music by our professional musicians? What is the standardized approach and why?

At this old age and fag end of my life, I sincerely feel that striving hard for the sole benefit of our kids and their parents in this respect is far higher than craving for our self-aggrandisement or saving our own image. Making the process of teaching/learning very strictly ‘time-bound and result-oriented’ is the need of this hour for the benefit of our kids and their parents. Each and every elderly act must benefit all our kids and their parents all over the globe.

Hope the Music Academy properly responds immediately by feeling its responsibility and by holding constructive and impartial discussions on such vital points which certainly influence the future of our kids. amsharma

munirao2001
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#6 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Manodharma Sangita is first to be correctly understood and realized. Manodharma is realted to manas-the inner and outer conscious, part of Chitta-the intellect and pure conscious. The other two parts of Chitta are Budhi-discursive and analytical mind of inner conscious, Ahamkara, the particular sense and individuation mind of outer conscious. The pure conscious Naada and Nodothpathi is the highest state in human divine spirit with identity of OMkara, ever elusive and rarest happening. Manodharma-principles and practices- in Indian Clsassical music consists of major two categories of Kalpana and kalpita. Kalpana is both improvisations extempore not premeditated and creatively recreating the premeditated by Budhi. Kalpita is purely premeditated, by Ahamkara.
Teaching and training system and methodology under discussions confines only to Kalpita, the knowledge of strong fundamentals-both theory and practice. Gain above the average levels in Kalpita, by Budhi in experience results in Kalpana. Divine spirit internalized, rest in Self Delight(Aananda-Bliss) and transcending in unity with universal selves is the maya-wonder works of Chitta, the sublime Naada-pure sound creating silence, beautiful, powerful and energizing moments, state of Self-Being.

Discussions, opinions, decisions and recommendations or advice in the topic of Manodharma is only restricted to Kalpita. Talented to become serious in pursuing the knowledge-theory and practice for Self satisfaction and as a practioner differs in intent, content and delivery. In the present times, with family and societal support the intelligence quotient at a higher levels over previous times and pressure for acquisition of multi descipline knowledge restricting the time of the interested learner/student, the compulsion of receiving the recognition and reward very early stage and age to successfully practice, well thought out and worked out(tested) method or a system, is real and felt need. Self less Teacher of great eminence Akalla Sharma garu's method and system to be at first understood, tested and proven with acceptable results and growth possibilities needs encouragement and support. All the others initiatives need such recognition and support.
To support the totally committed and dedicated learner/student for achieving higher excellence in Kalpana, deeper experience and practice is only helpful. The quick fix solutions are not helpful and to be eschewed. To gain and the master the Kalpana aspect of Indian classical music, with scope –Uttama/Highest in Raga/Melody alapana; Madhyama/Middle in Neraval; Adhama/least in swaraprasthara-for saadhakas other than percussionists-in terms of aesthetics- patanthara sudham; wide repertoire; relentless saadhana on mechanics-vocal and instrument techniques - all aspects of rasaanubhooti- are must. Eminent Teachers and Practitioners guidance and partaking of time tested techniques are to be only resorted to. Consciously I am avoiding the specifics and only focusing on the general. I may be excused for this conscious decision in posting.
I am keenly looking for the feedback on this very aspect of Indian classical music from all those committed and dedicated rasikas and also from Sashikiran and Akella garu.
Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao(munirao2001)

msakella
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#7 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, munirao2001, Very very glad to go through your educative post. Thanks a lot for the same. But, unfortunately, as my friend Late TRS was telling, I am equally poor in all the languages. As I am very less educated I cannot write like you in English but as I mostly work on making things easier to our kids in teaching/learning our music I may be able to write something in this respect. I have brought all my notions, whether right or wrong, in my recent book ‘Gurushishyasamvadamulu of 200 pages (Telugu)’. If you are truly interested and if you send you residential address along with your phone numbers etc., I shall certainly send you a copy of it.

In respect of the variations of Manodharma Sangita you wrote, I can’t agree with you that there are two variations, Kalpana and Kalpita in our Manodharma Sangita, as Kalpita also belongs to Kalpana before it takes the form of Kalpita. But, it is important to note that all the different exercises, which are formulated to help the aspirants develop their Manodharma, come under Kalpita.

Moreover, you have furnished a categorization, Uttama/Highest in Raga/Melody Alapana, Madhyama/Middle in Neraval and Adhama/least in Svaraprastara. In my experience as a teacher I sincerely believe that Svaraprastara is the entrance for entire Manodharma Sangita and thus it is of Uttama. Had our elders standardized Svaraprastara properly in a well-disciplined manner and formulated everything in detail it would have helped in shaping all our kids as giants in Manodharma Sangita. By the grace of the Almighty this is being done now and among the 100 kids of our Insitution, Swarabhangima, each and every kid renders all the 28-Special-laya-exercises I have formulated very efficiently unlike any other institution on the globe. These exercises are paving way to proceed further on their own independently with minimum dependency on their teacher.

In respect of the present context, at the outset, after going through the audio-file of this panel discussion and having gone through the respective news-coverage in Hindu (Chennai edition dt.27-12-2013, Friday) I felt extremely unhappy that the so called expert teachers in music, that too, in Chennai, the so called Mecca of Carnatic Music, are still becoming ready to mercilessly squeeze not only the money but also their blood of our kids for 15 long years for learning our music. If opportunity is given to me I am ready to prove it irrational, illogical and a criminal waste

Even though, Shri Pappu Venugopalarao, having become aware of the present need of the hour to quicken the process of teaching/learning music to our kids in this speedy age, wantonly brought out my ‘controversial reference’, indirectly reiterating its high importance, both the panelists and the members of the experts’ committee, absolutely ignoring either the welfare of our kids or the urgent need to quicken the process of teaching/learning or the ‘controversial reference’, blatantly finalized that a minimum duration of 15 years is needed to become a ‘full-fledged musician’.

Nowadays, in this speedy age, everybody tries to do things very fast to compete with others. But, if the so called experts themselves openly declare like that nobody hereafter prefers to learn our music.

At this juncture, as a highly reputed institution, the Music Academy must feel the responsibility to set things right and do the needful at the earliest. In making this process, if needed, I shall go over to Chennai on my own and co-operate with the authorities of the Academy in enlightening our people in this regard for the benefit of our community at large. amsharma

munirao2001
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#8 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear Brother msakella garu,
You will agree that language is essentially a means for expression and communication for the best understanding. Your communication is very clear and is appreciated.
1. I am keen to study your book. Please send on value payable basis to: S.Madhva Muni Rao, #170/C, 3rd E Cross Street, 2nd Block, 3rd Stage, Basaveshwarangar, Bengaluru-560079. Tel: L.Line:80-23229151. (.L.M.Opp.Paranjyothi Apartments and Carmel High School).

2. I request you not to cast aspirations on the teachers in general and panelists of MA discussions in particular on the motive of fixing the minimum period required for the acquisition of the knowledge in Manodharma.
3. In my posting and Kalpana aspect I have posted "creatively recreating the premeditated by Budhi" as also part of Kalpana but considered secondary to the primacy for the Original creative works. Knowledge and practice to gain mastery in handling the svarams with premeditated works/knowledge based most on the memory and 'kanakku vyavaharam' or 'lekkhacharamu'. With adequate knowledge and practice, efficiency is eminently possible. Mastery in Neraval and Raga delineation demands higher and highest creativity and excellence, respectively, is through the creativity at its best and its values. Factually, larger numbers of practitioners with relative ease attaining the standards in svarakalpana aspect but found wanting in Neraval and Raga aspects. The highest state of Nada Brahmatva is in Self Delight/Bliss of pure consciousness of the nada, powerful and energetic enabling self less moment in silence and stillness of the mind. Naturally gradation is based on the ease with which the attainment is possible.
munirao2001

msakella
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#9 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear Brother, Muniraogaru,

Today I have dispatched a copy of my book to you as a complimentary copy to a knowledgeable gentleman. The content of this book is as invaluable as the Thyagaraja-kriti-Dudukugala Nannedorakoduku Brochuraa-Gaula-Adi to a South Indian Musician. Please go through it and tell me your opinion later.

In our country mainly the discipline is lacking at all fields and at all levels and selfishness increased abundantly. Many do not feel their responsibilities, do not fulfill their duties and do not like to be questioned either in any manner. In our great Indian tradition husband and teacher are treated higher even than the Almighty irrespective of their behaviour. Any teacher must always strive hard to acquire more knowledge and to give it away honestly and sincerely to the students. Since last 20 years I have vigorously been searching for such a noble teacher in our music field striving hard for the students’ welfare but couldn’t find even a single one. Teacher’s primary duty is to make the student independent in all respects. How many teachers are doing this? My heart burns to the maximum if I just think the way they do in respect of the poor aspirants and their parents. Due to the inefficiency, dishonesty and insincerity of these teachers thousands of aspirants are becoming disabled in numerous ways. Not only myself but our entire nation itself certainly bows down to an efficient, honest and sincere teacher. But, I have many bitter experiences in my life with many Gurus who did neither feel their responsibilities nor did their duties efficiently but always spoke very high of ethics.

Particularly in our music field these lapses are very high as all these musicians are mainly performers only and everybody thinks that they all teach extremely well as they all are very efficient in singing or playing music. Even these performers themselves do not know that they are not fit to teach at all and many a time this has been proved beyond any doubt. Many agree that teaching is entirely different with performing but do not know how these teachers are used to spoil the students. To tell the fact, I was also one among them leading absolutely a parasitical life of a performer but, only by the grace of the Almighty, I could realize this only 5 years after my retirement. That is why I have then and there given up the very lucrative artistic life being a Top-ranking Violinist and, sincerely, prayed the Almighty to make my life more meaningful. Truly HE saved me in many many ways. For example, if the teaching field is compared with a building having 100 floors, only basing upon the successful end-results of our kids we have been getting since last 10 years, I feel that, presently, I am in the 40th floor (just pass-mark only) being able to locate the defects of all other teachers who are remaining below the 10th floor only. Only by the grace of the Almighty, long ago I could upload two CDs to ‘sangeethamshare’ and 700 videos to ‘Youtube’, all free of cost, to be useful for the aspirants all over the globe. Simultaneously even though I have been appealing to the teaching community to do the same and upload the videos of their talented students to inspire others nobody did anything in this respect till now.

I have visited many music-departments of many universities and music-colleges giving Lecture-demonstrations or Workshops on these easy methods in teaching/learning and found only very few sincere teachers are following them. Unfortunately, many of them neither follow them nor find fault with them. I know better than any other teacher on the globe what any teacher generally does. Many do not know that the syllabi of all these institutions are formulated by these performers only and not by the efficient teachers. By this these syllabi are not that effective to the students and mostly impotents are being produced by many of these institutions and I can prove this at any time and place if I am assured of any proper action to rectify these defects and put them on rails to make them more meaningful to our society.

Why should I talk against any teacher? Do I have any enmity with any teacher? No not at all. I am not at all against any teacher if he/she does the needful efficiently, honestly and sincerely. As I expect nothing from them except their efficient, honest and sincere service to the student community. I shall certainly point out if they do not do the needful as they themselves, being mainly performers, do not know what they are doing. The same thing happened in this panel discussion but each and every person is praising the other being unaware of this.

When Shri Pappu Venugopalarao very aptly brought my ‘controversial reference’ in regard to finish the process of learning within three years either the panelists or the members of the experts committee would have asked him to get the opinions of other experts also like me who are similarly working on the methods of teaching for the same of our kids. But, they didn’t do it as it very badly affects their image. In my case I do things only for the benefit of our kids and even if it affects my image I don’t care as I don’t feel that I have an image at all.

If they all are doing things properly and efficiently let them produce the talented kids they have already trained within a short time of two or three years just like the way we have been doing in our group of Institutions at Secunderabad. Even this I am asking not to find fault with them or for my self-aggrandisement at all but only to enlighten them about this novel method, that too, only for the benefit of our kids and their parents.

Long long ago I have given a demonstration to the inmates of the Music-teacher’s Training Institute attached to the Music Academy when Shri SRJ was working as its Principal and found that it can not serve the purpose unless the syllabus is modified suitably. But, who knows and bothers about it? amsharma

munirao2001
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#10 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear brother msakella garu,
The anguish and the pain at the state of affairs in music education is self evident in every word and sentence. I wish that print and visual media brings out this aspect with good report(they term it as story, which I detest) on this serious issue, to reach the larger population of rasikas. With awareness committed individual or organization may join the cause.
I recently read a report in the Hindu about the working of NGO started by Smt.Kala Ramanath for educating the BPL children on CM. I wish you join or collaborate with this NGO.
I am waiting for the comments from all the serious and committed rasikas and feed back to plan the action.
I am keenly looking forward to receive your book.

nivedita
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#11 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by nivedita »

I'm posting this on behalf of Shri Shashikiran.

Manodharma singing/playing has always been taught by guru to student; only the approach and level at which it is taught has varied on the basis of the students' capabilities. A student's mind needs to be cultivated to think creatively and develop manodharma, and that is the role of the guru.

As a guru I believe the method of helping a student cultivate manodharma can be summarised in four steps--Initiate, Imbibe, Imagine, Improve. The guru must initiate the student to the rules and framework that govern the different manodharma components--alapana, kalpanaswara, niraval and tanam. In the second stage, the guru must recommend artists (past or present) to the student for listening, from whom the student should imbibe ideas (but not imitate). Then the student must attempt to create his/her own ideas--in the third stage, Imagine. In the final stage, the guru must correct the student's ideas and help him/her improve, in class or as feedback after concerts.

Our approach to teaching manodharma needs to begin at a very fundamental level. The emphasis on creativity must in fact begin with the sarali varisais. The student must be encouraged to think out-of-the-box, create his/her own varisais/exercises, sing/play the varisais in various ragas/talas, etc. This will foster creativity at an early age, and change the way Carnatic music is approached. It will also make manodharma seem less of a Herculean task when the student learns to sing alapana and neraval a few years into his/her training.

In addition to encouraging creativity from the beginning of musical training, the guru could also teach manodharma sangeetham through various innovative approaches. One of the simplest would be to ask the student to create patterns of five swaras in (say) Hamsadhwani, ending at Ri, in the kriti 'Vathapi Ganapathim'. In addition, the student could be given 90 seconds and asked to come up with as many single avartana swara patterns as possible. For alapana, the student can be given a phrase and asked to build upon that phrase. For niraval, the student could be asked to improvise within a limited range. Such challenges will help the student push his/her mental boundaries and develop more musical ideas; and these are but some of the numerous innovative methods a guru can adopt.

My father made my siblings and me perform at a very young age and sing such seemingly complex things as pancha nadai pallavis, which Ravikiran performed at the age of 5! Even though Ravikiran is a genius and was an exceptionally talented child, my father's methods were so brilliant that he made other children within and outside our family execute complex musical concepts as well!

Others like Calcutta Krishnamurthy mama, PSN mama, Akella ji and teachers at Annamalai University have also adopted innovative and scientific approaches. It is not possible to call one or more of these efforts better than the rest, but each of these greats has done immeasurable service to Carnatic music. At the end of the day, when a shishya grows musically and reaches a stature that the guru can be proud of, it is the collective effort of the guru and the shishya.
Last edited by nivedita on 30 Jan 2014, 15:01, edited 1 time in total.

SrinathK
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#12 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by SrinathK »

I have read about Sri Chitraveena Narasimhan's efforts in an article in the newspaper a few years ago. Now THAT is some way of introducing CM to kids and even novice adults. It is only that such efforts and innovations are often undermined by labelling it as meant for the "Talented" or "gifted" -- as though others have made up their mind that they cannot do it without even trying (let it not be mistaken that I am accusing anyone of lack of talent!! I just think the message is not being realized that anyone willing can be introduced to ragas talas and all those complexities with a bit of time and the right approach). Somehow while such feats by small children are interpreted as purely "purva janma influence" or "child prodigism", it's rare to see someone who gets the brainwave -- "Hey wait a minute, perhaps there is an easy and effective way to grasp music by even a layman or a child or an infant."

Just a few of these techniques have suddenly broken big barriers to my understanding of rhythm and swaras and neraval (and that tala on the feet issue which tortured me for years is finally showing some results). So I am willing to swallow and try out any method out there -- the only thing I want to know is -- IT WORKS. AND WORKS GOOD. The implications are vast and many people and kids could easily grasp all those intricacies.

I am waiting for the lec dem on -- "How to make CM intricacies so simple even a child can understand it". All aspects of art keep evolving and one of them is also the art of teaching the art. So please let all the innovations in teaching be brought to the spotlight by any means available.

munirao2001
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#13 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

nivedita/sashikiran/srinath
I was happy to read the postings. Manodharma in Sangita has to serve the performer for self satisfaction and rasikas appreciation. Can we go into the details based on the knowledge gained and sharing on both these aspects for the benefit of performer members, teachers and the rasikas ? Taking the self less and pioneering work of brother member msakella garu, teacher par excellence and few others, create reference and research materials on the related web sites/pages for the benefit of all and for increase the reach and growth of CM.
I request all other members to join in this noble cause by posting and sharing.

munirao2001

msakella
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#14 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear sister-member, nivedita, Among musicians everybody prefers only to become a famous performer and, by that, also to earn many more things perennially. But, as man proposes and God disposes, many are helplessly compelled to settle down as teachers only getting that attitude but without the aptitude as it is handy to do. But, unfortunately, the common man cannot differentiate the performer and teacher. More over, being human, even the legends in music resort to teach to earn more in their lean time without knowing that they are not fit to teach. Even myself, only after 5 years after my retirement as teacher and, that too, only by the grace of the Almighty, I could realize that I do not fit to teach. But, God alone knows how many of my disciples could get out of my tentacles at that time. That was the fun.

Only after becoming able to stand on his/her own legs you can initiate any kid to walk or run. Not a performer but a TRUE TEACHER can understand that a kid should never be initiated into creativity right from the basic Saralee-svaras. However, logically, is it justifiable to start with Saralee-svaraas?

Many things of our music have never been standardized and the methods of teaching are the major one among them, effecting all the generations in one way or the other. A performer cannot look into all of them and understand properly. Without any exception I was also one among these victims.

Your language is nice and I cannot write like you, dear. amsharma

msakella
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#15 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, SrinathK, Even though I am always ready to demonstrate all the easy methods in initiating our kids in learning our music in the sole interest of our kids only the egoistic and ego-centric conservatives are not ready to allow me to do so at some places lest they will have to loose their image. However, by the grace of the Almighty our branch had started functioning there in Chennai recently. amsharma

msakella
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#16 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear Brother Munirao garu,

Nowadays mostly we find hypocrisy every where. From the beginning I have been sending the respective links of URLs of all my posts in this thread to the gmail addresses of both Dr.Pappu Venugopalarao and Dr,N.Ramanathan but no proper action has yet been taken.

But, in the absence of any proper action taken by them till now, I cannot remain inactive in the high interests of our kids and our music but left with no other alternative than surrendering the TTK Award given to me by themselves for the year 2009. amsharma

shashikiran
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#17 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by shashikiran »

Dear All

Manodharmam is a very broad area of music and refers to all musical creativity. It encompasses much more than creative elements like raga alapana, niraval, kalpana swarams, etc. For many ragas we are used to common phrases, without which the raga doesn’t get its lifeline. So are these phrases kalpitha sangathis within manodhamam—the answer is yes, and no! A good sangathi in a composition could itself be manodharmam. In fact, when a composition is set by masters from notation, is it not their manodharmam? There are several dimensions to this topic and we must understand the scope of manodharmam, its relevance and context before dwelling on it.

Next, no one can start learning music with the thought that they will be a star performer or a great teacher one day. Music is all about passion to begin with, and should be about passion throughout one’s career.

One can develop good manodharmam only when the basics are strong, and strong basics will ensure that at any stage one’s command and control over the notes and rhythm is tight. This can be achieved from the sarali varisais/basic lessons. The ‘basics’, in fact, are not just for beginners. They are as relevant to performers at every stage of their career as they are to beginners.

My father and guru Chitravina Narasimhan has even created a simple RTP with the first sarali varisai with arudi in 2 kalai adi talam, to explain how simple a pallavi can be before we embark on complex ones! Simple pallavis can also be done in pillari geethams. We have heard great artists like Madurai T.N. Seshagopalan sing these, Lambodara Lakumikara for example.

Madurai Mani Iyer, an exponent of swara singing especially sarvalaghu combinations, practised the special 108 varisais created by Dr Muthiah Bhagavathar in addition to the common varisais. Similarly, many gurus have developed new varisais and helped students get a command over briga patterns, rava patters and other aspects of music. Why, even simple exercises such as singing/playing random phrases and making the student identify the notes, or singing/playing notes and making the student sing akaram is a good start! Developing it further, the guru can make the student create a new sarali/janta varisai by explaining the concept of the varisais. For example, srsgsrsr - srgmpdns ...snsdsnsn - sndpmgrs is a new sarali varisai. Taking it even further, one can create a sarali in a pentatonic scale like Mohanam in Rupaka talam: srgpds – sdpgrs; srsrsr – srgpds…sdsdsd – sdpgrs; etc.

One can go on with many such examples. Ideally, teachers should have patience, passion and manodharmam (!) to understand the IQ and manodharmam levels of his/her students, to adopt and try new ways to explain, and to also learn more themselves in the process of teaching.

My father and my brother Ravikiran have developed several patterns and a lot of these their students have been successfully performing and demonstrating these outside our family too. In addition to a fertile manodharmam, one should have a vast repertoire of compositions--as most great musicians and gurus have said.

Irrespective of whether we are a performer or a teacher, we are always students of music. We learn every day from the great compositions of the masters, from such exercises as the above when we sing them in multiple speeds, from teaching students, from the rendition of a student, from our violinist and percussion artists, and so on. The quest for knowledge is continuous, this is a journey we have embarked on and none is a master above the art itself.
I have had the opportunity to interview several great masters of the past including Semmangudi mama, Pattamal amma, etc. who all told me they learnt sarali varisais etc. formally only after they knew some compositions and shlokams! That only goes to show that the textbook method does not work for everybody, especially since we are not striving to create parrots here. A great guru would understand the students’ needs and teach accordingly.

All great performers need not be bad teachers; several great performers have also been great gurus. The bottomline is that music is a continuous journey, for the student, teacher and performer. I have been fortunate to learn from great gurus and still continue to learn from them, as well as my students, other performers and other gurus.

My father 's students and we will be happy to practically demonstrate some of these aspects in appropriate forums as they are difficult to explain in words. My father's close friend Akella-ji is aware of my father's credentials too as the respect is mutual. I am posting this since Shri Muni Rao gaaru wanted us to share a bit more on this topic.
Last edited by shashikiran on 30 Jan 2014, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.

munirao2001
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#18 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Sashikiran
I am happy for your posting and sharing.
I desire that 'manodharmam in Sangita' has to be defined with clarity for true understanding. I have posted Quote"Manodharma Sangita is first to be correctly understood and realized. Manodharma is related to manas-the inner and outer conscious, part of Chitta-the intellect and pure conscious. The other two parts of Chitta are Budhi-discursive and analytical mind of inner conscious, Ahamkara, the particular sense and individuation mind of outer conscious. The pure conscious Naada and Nodothpathi is the highest state in human divine spirit with identity of OMkara, ever elusive and rarest happening. Manodharma-principles and practices- in Indian Clsassical music consists of major two categories of Kalpana and kalpita. Kalpana is both improvisations extempore not premeditated and creatively recreating the premeditated by Budhi. Kalpita is purely premeditated, by Ahamkara.
Teaching and training system and methodology under discussions confines only to Kalpita, the knowledge of strong fundamentals-both theory and practice. Gaining above the average levels in Kalpita, by Budhi in experience results in Kalpana. Divine spirit internalized, rest in Self Delight(Aananda-Bliss) and transcending in unity with universal selves is the maya-wonder works of Chitta, the sublime Naada-pure sound creating silence, beautiful, powerful and energizing moments, state of Self-Being.

I will be happy to receive your reply based on the teachings of your great gurus, Shri Narasimhan Sir and Ravi Kiran on this aspect. After inputs from other knowledgeable members, I shall make sincere attempt on defining the 'manodharma in Indian classical Music'.
munirao2001

msakella
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#19 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Prior to the invention and introduction of the cassette-tape-recorder the aspirants in music were compelled to mostly depend upon their teacher not only to learn the lesson but also to listen to his/her music many a time. By all this, always the aspirant’s listening was only at the minimum level and that is the reason why the aspirant had to spend many years to learn music. But, after the invention and introduction of the cassette-tape-recorder, as the recording facility became handy, somehow, the aspirants started recording the music of not only of their teacher but also of the other musicians to listen to it many a time. However, the music-teachers were always discouraging not only their disciples but also each and every aspirant telling that it is harmful to listen to the recorded music lest they have to loose their importance. By all this, even I was of the same opinion for many years that recorded music is always harmful to the aspirants. But, later, several experiments obviously revealed that it is always preferable to rely only upon the recorded music than the teacher as it quickens the process of their learning to the maximum extent basing upon their individual abilities. However, no music-teacher agrees with me, that is a different story.

To tell the fact, the musicians never encourage even the notation writing also even though they were compelled to openly praise Subbarama Dikshitar for bringing out the symbolized notation in his ‘Sangita Sampradayapradarshini’. That is why, none of the musicians never try either to follow this symbolized notation or even to develop it to suit our needs for the benefit of the aspirants. Becoming aware of its importance I have made the notation symbolized for the benefit of our kids by which 27 facets of oscillations of Kaishikinishada alone have been brought out for the first time in the history.

Moreover, unfortunately, our music-teachers are never used to have the logical approach but the traditional conservative approach in teaching music. In the traditional approach, to quote an example, the aspirant is deliberately and illogically taxed to start the Alankaras with the Dhruva-tala which was not even touched by many of the famous composers to compose their compositions and which is most confusing even to teachers. In the modern qualitative method the aspirant starts with Eka-tala, the easiest and smallest among the seven-talas. Thus, while everything is made easy and quickening in this modern age, the music-teachers are adamant to quicken the process of teaching/learning music. This is a very saddening affair of our music.

By initiating the 11 years old kid, Chi. Shreenidhi (grand-daughter of our co-member Shri S.Nageshwaran) in learning music weekly twice by Skype from Chennai she, within the duration of only one year, became able to sing a 45 mts., concert with Todi-Adi-Varna in full @ 4-6-8 notes per beat and Evarura-Mohana-Chapu along with brief-ragalapana and intricate Svarakalpana efficiently. This became possible by following the modern qualitative method in teaching/learning.

By initiating the 7 years old kid, Chi.Rishabh Ranganathan (USA) who learnt both Vocal and Violin in the same manner by Skype within the duration of 2 years, he could become the ‘Karnataka-music-Idol’ singing Paramapavanarama-Purvikalyani-Adi along with brief-ragalapana and intricate Svarakalpana in Vocal in the sub-juniors’ category in USA to which Neyveli Shri Santanagopalan and Shri Shashikiran have acted as Judges. Accordingly, later, he also played a jointly sponsored Violin-concert of 45 mts., on 27-12-2013 in the Carnatica & Parathasarathy Swamy Sabha in Chennai with Todi-Adi-Varna in full @ 4-6-8 per beat and Evarura.Mohana-Chapu-Kriti along with brief-ragalapana and intricate Svarakalpana. This also became possible by following the modern qualitative method in teaching/learning.

In the same manner, in our music-institution, Swarabhangima at Secunderabad, we have more than 80 kids among which 30 kids can sing all the 9 select Varnas in full @ 4-6-8 notes per beat along with intricate-muktayis in Svarakalpana, 15 kids can sing the same @ 4-6-8-12-16 notes per beat along with intricate Svarakalpana to odd starting points of Kritis and brief-ragalapana for some Ragas even before learning the first Kriti on their own within the duration of 3 years’ training. They also demonstrate the Varnas with symbolized Gamakas. This also became possible by following the modern qualitative method in teaching/learning.

If the respective teachers lay the needed foundation of their students in the required manner and initiate them properly in regularly doing a well-planned practice, they themselves could attain the knowledge of Manodharma Sangita gradually.

Unfortunately, the teaching community is dead against to modify the method of teaching music as they loose much financially by quickening the process of learning. More over, they are not at all ready to make any modification in the old process of the quantitative method which facilitates teaching of umpteen items conveniently elongating the process as they like. In our State of Andhra Pradesh, as one of the members of the Board of Studies, when I included some of the most useful rhythmical exercises in the syllabi of the Govt. Music examinations, some of the members of Staff even gave a written complaint against me to remove them. But, when some of the other members opposed to do so they kept quiet. But, even without actually teaching them to their students in the class, in the examinations, they are managing by conniving with the Examiner. Nowadays this is happening at many places and many of these institutions are becoming the breeding points of impotents. But, many are not aware of this and, pitiably enough, nobody is there to rectify such defects for the benefit of our kids.

But, in our institute, basing upon the amazing end-results and practically observing the very quick progress of their kids the respective parents are readily co-operating whole-heartedly in each and every manner with our committed teachers. This also became possible by following the modern qualitative method in teaching/learning.

At the outset, at this old age, as my physical condition is not allowing me to write such lengthy posts in defining and making the relevant things clear to the readers, I have decided to minimize my writings hereafter. However, I am ready to hold Lec-dems with question-answer sessions or workshops on the easy methods in teaching music at any time and place for the benefit of our kids and their parents. amsharma

munirao2001
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#20 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear brother member msakella garu,
Unfortunately, the teaching community is dead against to modify the method of teaching music as they loose much financially by quickening the process of learning.
. With total attention and focus only on the reach and growth of Karnataka Music, I request you to avoid such judgments and statements.
To serve the cause of Indian classical music and supporting the students and rasikas a specific plan, actions and successful implementation is the need of the hour. I propose brother members to take active part and contribute resources for the success of this goal and the noble cause.
1. Goal : 1.1.To achieve clarity and understanding on the vital aspects of the principles and practices of ICM-CM, e.g.'Tradition' and 'Manodharma'
1.2.To prepare and recommend to the relevant authority syllabus, systems and methodology for Teachers.
1.3.To prepare and recommend to the relevant authority syllabus, systems and methodology for students.
1.4.To prepare and communicate reference materials on ICM-CM for the music appreciation by the rasikas.
2.Action Plan: 2.1. Lecture demonstrations in Chennai, Bengaluru and Hyderabad. Ideally in all the centers.
2.2. Panel discussions in Chennai, Bengaluru and Hyderabad.
2.3. Thematic concerts in Chennai, Bengaluru and Hyderabad.
2.4. Dialogue- Teachers, Performers, students and rasikas-based only on Q&A sessions.
2.5. Promotion-event managements with Sponsors, Practitioners, students and rasikas participation.

Members in the respective cities to present the plan to the event managers and with active participation by the members. To achieve the goal-msakella Sir, Chitraveena Narasimhan Sir can help with the Goal(s) and forunites Chitraveena Ravikiran, Sashikiran, Narmada Gopalakrishnan, M.Balaji can help with action plan(s). Other forunites to contribute the resources directly or through sponsors.
I suggest Goal(s) part to be achieved by end July'14. Action plan July-Oct'14.
In the meanwhile, let this 'manodharma 'discussions continue with contributions from all the forunites who can share the knowledge.

munirao2001

msakella
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#21 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, munirao garu, I have many bitter experiences in my life and, in general, they only make me speak aloud. I may have difference of opinions with others but not enmity at all. At this fag end of my life I like to serve our community truly and truthfully until my last breathe without any self-aggrandisement. In this process, at the first instance, we have to standardize many aspects of our music to make it more clear, easy and quick for our future generations. In this process, I assure you, that I am always ready to work along with all the like-minded people to serve the cause of our music. amsharma

munirao2001
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#22 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear brother member Shri M.S.Akellagaru
You are not the exception in the lives of the great artists, who share your experience. Ignoring the rejection and lack of appreciation, totally focused on the intellectual experience and serving the cause, the ultimate goal only helpful or supports the results. Open criticism divert the attention and the body of new knowledge with immense potential is either not given its due attention or the resources or totally rejected. The loss is both personal and universal-Indian Classical Music-CM.
If all the committed rasikas and dedicate for this cause the means gets the higher support and if the commitment and dedication is found wanting, let the work begun continue with renewed vigor for the success of this noble cause unmindful. I am always guided by the spirit of Gurajada Appa Rao "vatti matalu kattipetti, gatti mel talapettavoi"- 'mind totally focused on the greater deeds, not reveling in the mere words'. This great poet's advice is universal in appeal, not only restricted to myself.

munirao2001

msakella
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#23 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, munirao garu, What you wrote is the absolute truth, I too fully agree with you. But, to which time Gurajada Apparao belongs to? More than 60 years back I guess. At that time how the minds of the people are? Not at all like this in which way we presently have. Times and minds have changed a lot increasing individual hypocrisy and absolute selfishness. Nowadays nobody comes out to condemn any bad or worse or worst deed. Everybody knows that it is a great sin if a knowledgeable person doesn’t condemn then and there the wrong deeds deliberately done by others taking advantage of others ignorance or weakness. I have rapport with the poor aspirants for over 50 years. Even in the present incident how can I allow our kids to fall prey to the egoistic, ego-centric conservatives after becoming well aware that they are going to fall prey to them? I can’t and don’t.

Officially I have worked for 35 long years as an in-efficient teacher successfully spoiling each and everybody whoever comes to my class as a prey. You cannot even imagine how many hundreds of the ignorant poor aspirants I have successfully spoiled even without any supervision in my entire service. That is the pity. Had I killed all of them in a single attempt in a bomb blast it is ok just like in a way it is happening in our daily life. But, most of them are still alive struggling a lot to live having become physically and mentally handicapped without legs or hands or eyes or ears or noses or mouths or sufficient knowledge in that bomb blast made by me. Could you kindly just imagine? Due to the wrong selection as a teacher by the so called parasitical performers under the guise as Judges I was selected as teacher. For any kind of post some kind of training or the other is made compulsory. But, as all our so called elders and so called legends did never take any care at all in suitably standardizing and setting things right in all respects for our kids to lead their lives peacefully, generations together are suffering a lot. I could only realize all these things only after 5 years after my retirement. I am not a person to do things for self-benefit. No, not at all. More over at this age I don’t need anything except the welfare of our kids. Let any thing happen to me, I don’t and can’t care.

If we take even our present case of this illogical panel discussion made by the so called expert teachers and members of the experts’ committee of the Music Academy, Chennai, in which way it is justifiable to waste 15 long years of an aspirant only for learning 50 Varnas and 300 Kritis and umpteen others? In fact, any person needs only three pairs of pants and shirts only, to have one on the body, the second one with the washer-man and the third one in the Almirah. He/she doesn’t need 100 pairs of pants and shirts. While learning the driving of a motor-cycle how many days the teacher needs to train him/her? Hardly one week. After he/she finishes learning the driving the teacher need not go along with him/her to Mumbai or Chennai. Why should he/she? The same thing applies for cooking also. After finishing the learning in cooking for a week or so why should the teacher remain along with him/her further? No music-teacher is ready to answer these logical questions. Everybody tells cock and bull stories and runs away.

Due to the domination of the egoistic, ego-centric conservatives all our poor kids and their parents are loosing a lot and I am ready to prove this at any time and place. I have already written many examples in my book you have and, still, I have umpteen examples to prove. That too, the same conservatives dominating in the Music Academy will not allow the broad-minded people do anything against them. They don’t have the reason or rational mind or logic to come out open and discuss. They all are afraid to discuss. While I am proving with evidences that only 5 years is far more than enough to make an aspirant sing or play a one-hour–concert they have, with great difficulty, reduced this figure from 20 or 30 years to only 15 years. How great they are to be so generous? Due to the domination of these conservatives Dr. Pappu could only utter my name, that too, at last and kept mum? Or he will be thrown out certainly. They will not allow him to go further to continue this discussion lest they all loose many things in that discussion. Ultimately, I guess, they all make him a scape-goat to save their own skins. On the other hand you want to pacify me! What is the fate of our kids? Who is going to save their time, energy and money? Can you show me some non-selfish gentleman or gentlewoman to work for them? amsharma

munirao2001
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#24 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear brother member msakella garu,

With no other member showing interest and sharing the knowledge other than Sashikiran, Srikant and Nivedita, it is now exchange between me and you, both having the similar goal. I am requesting once again all the members to actively participate and contribute.
Truly we have problem of plenty-above average performers in the present times in the age group of 20 to 40. It stands testimony not only to their success but also their parents and teachers success conforming the traditional teaching and training. With increase in income, education, opportunities and the belief of tradition in art and cultural influence in the conduct and better management (as perceived and believed by the parents), children are taking to arts and culture in growing numbers. They do not have resources and time to dedicate for the learning, with the exception of few for longer periods in training.
I desire that with immense experience and scholarship, ideas, methods and systems with proven results, revered teachers par excellence Shri msakella garu and Shri Chitraveena Narasimhan take the lead and inspire many other eminently capable teachers to achieve the goal and the noble cause. Let the work recommence with all the rasikas support, commitment and dedication.

munirao2001

msakella
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#25 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, munirao garu, Out of the three you are thinking that they came out Chi. Nivedita is the mouth-piece of Chi. Shashikiran, one of the panelists and Srikant is the audience. Out of all the panelists or the members of the experts’ committee only one, Chi. Shashikiran is peeping out sometimes and vanishing immediately. None of the others came out. We both only have to make this show enjoyable. Isn’t it?

The main difference of opinion and problem is the unnecessary elongation of the duration of training in music to 15 long years to the aspirants. All these egoistic, ego-centric conservatives think two much, three much, 100 much, 1000 much and so on about themselves and seeing through their jaundiced-eyes spoil the dish. Unfortunately, they do not know what harm they are doing to our own kids. Long time back, unfortunately, I was also one among them but, by the grace of the Almighty, I could realize later. More over, they all are our brothers only, not others. If their jaundiced-eyes are cleared they will also help us like all other brothers. If we all sit together and discuss and if we make them understand the logic behind they also join with us and do everything whole-heartedly. But, we have to make them understand the things properly. Even that, I think, is not difficult at all as logic is one and the same to each and everybody on the earth. As others have their own doubts and constraints they may not be able to join with us as you expected. Leave them.

Rao garu, unnecessarily and un-knowingly, our musicians themselves are making the Manodharmam a demon or devil and an unsolvable problem. But, I think there is no problem at all with it. The problem is with the path you arrive at that. Unfortunately, the path is made difficult by our conservative thinking and, by that, the destination also became difficult to arrive at. If the path is made easy by logical thinking, naturally, the destination also becomes very easy to arrive at.

Believe it or not, only by the grace of the Almighty, for the first time in the history, we are able to make this path dead easy within a very short time even to our small kids in our institution, here at Secunderabad and, by that, even our kids are able to do very difficult things very easily. If the jaundiced-eyes of our conservative-brothers are set right by the logical medicine they can look at the things properly and follow us in shaping our kids as legends. We must be optimistic, work hard and hope for the better. amsharma

munirao2001
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#26 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear brother member msakella garu,
I request you once again to totally avoid thinking and statements like " All these egoistic, ego-centric conservatives think two much, three much, 100 much, 1000 much and so on about themselves and seeing through their jaundiced-eyes spoil the dish." Unfortunately it is distracting and the focus shifts and is lost.
PLAN PART-I-2014
Action Plan-1. I request you to prepare the synopsis for the syllabus for the Teacher's Training-Fast track systems and methods. After this synopsis gets the acceptance in the forums of panel discussions, a detailed syllabus to be prepared incorporating all the other valuable and constructive suggestions.
Action Plan-2. To request editors of music magazines- like Sruti, Kala Sinchana and Samudhra and dailies like 'The Hindu' for publishing the Fast track systems and methods by their reports and as a serial article.
Action Plan-3. To request principals of music colleges to arrange Lec-demos by Shri msakella and Shri Chitraveena Narasimhan on the fast track systems and methods
Action Plan-4. To request Organizations and foundations serving the cause of Indian Classical Music-CM to arrange Lec-demos and work shops for teachers in CM

I am requesting brother members Chitraveena Ravikiran and Sashikiran to seek and take the blessings of Shri Narasimhan Sir for the consent, guidance and participation in this cause. I also want to request Shri Narasimhan Sir. Please send the contact details to my email id:[email protected], at your earliest and oblige.

narayan
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#27 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by narayan »

msakella wrote: I was also one among them but, by the grace of the Almighty, I could realize later. ... amsharma
Sri A.M.Sharma,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. It depends on the grace of god for various people to realize these things. These matters take their own time and till then, each person has to learn as per one's own limitations - I'm referring to teachers, not students.

munirao2001
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#28 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

forunites
I am pleased to inform you that Shri Narasimhan Sir has agreed to meet me and discuss this plan. I will be meeting him during the second week of April.
forunites non participation is intriguing. With the blessings of great maestros and teachers Shri Narasimhan Sir and Shri M.S.Akella Sir, the cause will be well served irrespective of the support.

munirao2001

msakella
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#29 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, muniraogaru, Always you are trying to pacify me only even though the other party is not responding positively. In this regard I am compelled to state the following.

A. Almost 2 years back I have already requested my friend Chtraveena Shri Narasimhan to do something in regard to the symbolization of our notation which, in turn, helps our kids a lot in possibly quickening the process in learning music. Then he asked me to send my CD, AMS-Easy Methods in teaching/learning music’ to go through the relevant material in it. Accordingly I sent the same to him on 30-01-2012 through one of my friends. But later he expressed his dis-interest in this affair as, even in Chennai, nobody is interested. Even when I have reiterated the same again in Dec., 2013 he expressed the same dis-interest.

B. In ‘Acharyanet’ while teaching the music lessons to the students Chi. Chitraveena Ravikiran, without thinking the logical aspect of it, simply followed the traditional method only by starting the Alankaras with Dhruva-tala which is harmful to the kids, by teaching the 35 Alankaras all in Chaturashra-gati ony which is not at all helpful to energise the kids rhythmically and by taxing the aspirants by teaching nearly 17 Gitas which are not at all allowed to sing in any concert. Even the way of teaching Varnas also is with performers’ perspective only but not with the teachers’ perspective at all. Unless he applies the logical aspect he cannot do justice to the aspirants.

C. Even in respect of Chi Shashikiran, in his reply to my first post in respect of the absence of the teachers’ perspective in singing the phrases in Dhanyasi-raga to be helpful to the aspirants, he didn’t even touch this point. More over, he or any other teacher or expert in that gathering even express any positive opinion in welcoming others opinions also in this respect.

D. Even when I have requested another friend Dr. N.Ramanathan in this respect, surprisingly, he also didn’t respond positively.

If all the above experts along with all other experts and teachers in Chennai have a positive view upon others views also and invite them in serving the cause of our music, particularly in quickening the process of teaching our music to our kids, we all can work together and certainly get amazing results within a very short time.

Even though my health is not co-operating with me in writing lengthy posts I felt it as my duty to bring out these truths. amsharma

chitravina ravikiran
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#30 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by chitravina ravikiran »

Dear All,

I am glad that with Shri Muni Rao's and others' initiative, something concrete is going on regarding teaching. While everything in this kind of a subject has only contextual validity, it is important to highlight the following:

1. Fast-track is a fashionable sounding word but has little meaning when students barely spend an hour a day on music. Fast-tracking should never be at the cost of substance.

2. Certain techniques can help students to get stronger quickly, which is more important than just blindly faster. But fast-tracking obviously depends on how each student evolves and responds - there is no general rule.

3. Even in science, math and other general academic subjects, only the Talented and Gifted are fast-tracked. Not everyone. Any subject where blind-fast-tracking is pursued is bound to let its overall standards plummet.

4. Typically anyone who spends more time & energy on basics initially, automatically fast-tracks in subsequent stages. Conversely, it's an everyday reality that thousands of students who have tried to fast-track at their basic stages and compromised on fundamentals thinking they can save a few days, weeks, months or years initially have faded out or under-achieved. Most times, parents (and some times gurus also) are directly responsible for this.

5. Merely to illustrate a point, I want to highlight my father's "fast-track methods, which put me on stage as a 325-raga-reckoner etc at age 2, as a vocalist at 5 and chitravina artiste by 11.

(a) this "fast-track" was through at least 14-15 hours spent on music every day till I joined school at age 9.

(b) There were literally hundreds of melody and laya technique exercises that were covered (including singing various saralis, alankarams etc in 6 speeds, diverse varnams in 4 speeds, different gatis etc to name a few), apart from notation writing, analysing sahitya meanings in Sanskrit, Telugu, Tamil, reading or discussing mythology and even philosophy contained in or related to various songs and listening to great masters in AIR and even repeating korvais that people like Palghat Mani Iyer, Shri Pazhani and others would play during their tani avartanams.

(c) And the repertoire that my father gave me by age 5 was 25 Geetams, 11 swarajatis, 55 varnams and nearly 300-400 krtis, tillanas, javalis and even a couple of padams. All these can certainly fast-tracks a student in a solid way.

(d) It would be impossible to pen down in a nutshelll the manodharma approach of my father but they were so complete that they enabled me to present 2-3 hour vocal concerts with RTPs etc from age 5.

6. This is not to scare students or gurus off!! The methods evolved by my gurus or me over the years have left a track record that speak for themselves, even in an era when my disciples barely spend 1/10 to 1/3 or the time I used to spend on music in my formative years.

7. I'm trying to include some of my father's "fast-track" methods on Acharyanet whenever time permits and will be happy to do practical demos or workshops on it for interested students anytime!

cacm
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#31 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by cacm »

Quote from Sri. Ravi Kiran" :
5. Merely to illustrate a point, I want to highlight my father's "fast-track methods, which put me on stage as a 325-raga-reckoner etc at age 2, as a vocalist at 5 and chitravina artiste by 11.
(a) this "fast-track" was through at least 14-15 hours spent on music every day till I joined school at age 9.
I thank R.K. for elucidating& explaining to Layman like me the fundamental techniques & requirements NEEDED to produce a RAVI KIRAN. He is UNIQUE in being able to COMMUNICATE very difficult things EASILY & actually is a shining example LIKE that of Einstein& Feynman who have both said if you cannot explain what you are saying to some one who has ZERO BACKGROUND in half an hour then you have NOT UNDERSTOOD what you are saying!
I want to apologise to everyone for hijacking the expert exchanges with inserting one area that I have spent practically my entire life trying to understand: the proverbial role of PRESPIRATION &/vs INSPIRATION in producing GENUINE GENIUSES in various areas.
Here I wish to state that Malcolm Gladwell in his book called OUTLIERS has clearly documented what it takes to REACH THIS UNIMAGINABLE LEVELS in any area& RAVI falls in this category along with Mali, MS, & MMI who were kind enough to share & educate me about their experiences& practices to get to the levels they reached.
As Ravi is the only one in Carnatic Music (for that matter MUSIC period) that I know of who is capable of this I request& urge him to write a book on His VIEWS AS WELL AS EXPERIENCES in this area.It would help present as well as future aspirants immensely. Considering the ATTENTION paid to trivialities indulged in by many & popular acclamation/criticism this is something concrete & useful. Salutations! :) :ymapplause: :-BD :[email protected]

msakella
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#32 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Atlast Chi. Chitraveena Ravikiran came out with a lengthy illogical explanation. But, having been blessed by the Almighty with a very great system of initiating the kid in learning music on his/her own (but with minimum teaching only) and getting amazing end-results in a ‘time-bound’ process, I cannot agree with him at all.

More over, as per our brother-member, cacm, I couldn’t find the word ‘PRESPIRATION’ even in the dictionary. However, I would like to suggest him to read my book ‘Gurushishyasamvadamulu (Telugu)’ if possible in this respect.amsharma

varsha
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#33 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by varsha »

non participation is intriguing
If it is still intriguing , I , as a rasika , will volunteer to explain my non participation . Purely speaking for myself :|

msakella
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#34 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Though of the same music, the performers’ perspective is entirely different with the teachers’ perspective. In respect of the relevant duties and responsibilities, while the performers’ main object is only their self-aggrandisement the teachers’ main object is to enlighten the entire society which is very noble.

In which way every person, though not qualified, suggests one medicine or the other to any person suffering with an ailment each and every musician, thinking himself/herself a great innovative teacher, resorts to teaching. Unless we come across a more disciplined person than us we cannot realize and, even then, we don’t accept it openly. This is the human tendency.

Any person who learns music, in general, prefers to become the best singer or player and, by that, in turn, expects to earn more and more perennially. That is why each and every musician has the performers’ perspective only. But, while resorting to teach the problem is of the student being the sufferer but not of the teacher. While beating somebody the person who beats is on the safe side. In this way the aspirant becomes the sufferer for the inefficiency of the teacher.

Few years back when I happened to interact with some of the inmates of the Kalakshetra, Adyar, Chennai I have found that the teachers are not teaching them in a way they should and, ultimately, they all are affected. Due to lack of teachers’ perspective the respective teachers did not teach in a way they should. But, when I brought this to the notice of the Principal by email, surprisingly enough, she found fault with my interaction with them instead of setting it right for their benefit. This is the state of affairs in many of our music institutions. But, who bells the cat.

In the same manner, even though we all are blessed with three great Violin-legends, MSG, Lalgudi and Chandrashekharan, not even a single video of them has been preserved for educational purpose and we all are in an inexcusable state (if at all we are sincere enough to feel it) for the loss of this great treasure.

In the same manner, due to lack of the teachers’ perspective even the so called expert-teachers sang the phrases of Dhanyasi-raga in a manner which is not at all helpful to the aspirants. More over, even though Shri Pappu Venugopalarao, as a responsible officer of this highly reputed institute of our music, very aptly hinted the need of the hour in quickening the process of teaching music to the aspirants by bringing my ‘controversial’ reference either the so called expert-teachers or the experts, even without feeling the same responsibility and suggesting him to invite the opinion of other experts like me, illogically finalized the minimum duration of 15 long years for becoming a ‘full-fledged-musician’.

In the light of all the above if all the people concerned feel the responsibility of our kids and do the needful at the earliest our entire music community feels very proud of them and the entire nation also bows down to them in truly fulfilling their responsibility. amsharma

Nick H
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#35 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by Nick H »

A general possible suggestion as to non-participation:

--- the thread title does not suggest the contents as they have developed.

--- the conversation seems to be appropriate to teachers only.

msakella
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#36 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

When the methods in teaching Manodharma Sangita have been discussed at length in the panel discussion and when they are also found illogical the contents also relate to the same and become relevant to the teachers only. amsharma

nivedita
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#37 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by nivedita »

Posting on behalf of Shri Shashikiran:

In order to give this subject the respect it deserves, we should start with a broad-minded inclusive approach. There have been many successful innovative teaching methods. The merits of each of these methods are decided by how students respond to the method, rather than by the guru's claim.

As for the Dhanyasi in the Academy panel discussion,
1. The demonstration was not done by me. So, clearly, I cannot talk on behalf of the other musicians who participated in the panel discussion.
2. The focus on manodharma teaching should not be lost by focusing on Dhanyasi, especially here in the absence of all the other participants of that panel discussion.
3. The Academy discussion is a thing of the past. To achieve something constructive, we must move forward.

I'm very happy to present demonstrations of teaching methods as also bring in other gurus to present their methods.

Munirao garu,
My email address is knshashikiranatgmaildotcom, please email me if there's anything you would like to discuss.

PS: Nivedita has been my disciple for over 12 years, is a musician herself, knows my methods of teaching manodharmam, and has heard us present numerous formula RTPs and create on-the-spot RTPs and is therefore not just my mouthpiece.

msakella
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#38 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Chi. Shashikiran dear,

I too agree with most of your points except one or two.

I fully agree with you to move forward starting with a broad-minded inclusive approach in achieving something constructive in this respect. To start with, I think, it is desirable to hold a meeting in Chennai, at the earliest, with all the persons concerned to discuss things at length in respect of the methods in teaching music to our kids. Being in Chennai if you take the lead and do the needful in this respect I am ready to come along with you, dear.

In respect of the so called innovative methods in teaching our music the students’ response may defer basing upon the level of their individual instinctive talents. Irrespective of any other relative problems unless the process of teaching/learning is very strictly made logical based and ‘time-bound and result-oriented’, even without any compromise in the efficiency, there will not be any use of any meeting. So, keeping all these things in view and under the able guidance of your brother and father, make a plan of action and keep me informed to move further along with you.

To make it more transparent to all the aspirants and the interested persons, I think, it is desirable to bring all the relevant details in this thread.

As I am going out of station tomorrow and be back again on 19th of this month I shall try to respond to your posts at the earliest basing upon the available internet facilities. amsharma

munirao2001
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#39 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Nick and other forunites rasikas
As rasikas we are very fortunate to have Great Maestros who can guide us for the enhanced rasikathva. For Teachers, Students and all the other stake holders of Indian Classical Music-Sponsors, Opinion makers and the media, these Great Maestro Gurus can teach and offer knowledge for different aspirational levels. I desire that we should make a very serious effort to give a definite system, methods and practice with knowledge of the lakshana and lakshya gained, retrieve the loss, support the knowledge seekers and finally institutionalize. Rasikas coming forth as one of the key element for the continued growth and to make ICM achieve the levels of 'critical mass', will give input to the Great Maestro teachers to deliberate and offer guidance and advice. Please leave inhibitions. Great Maestro Teachers have been dealing with interested, insufficiently interested and disinterested. They will take us all, if we stay dedicated, committed and supportive.

I propose:1:Two day conference on Teaching. Participation by Teachers(restricted entry only for teachers). Day One:1.1.Critical Review of the systems, methods and practice-strengths and inadequacy and Institutional. 1.2:Presentation of Papers on Innovative teaching techniques-Primary, Secondary,Degree, Masters and Teachers training-refresher and short term course.
Day Two:2.1: Lecture and demonstration on innovative teaching technique by select three-Conventional systems and methods; innovations within conventional systems and methods; unconventional system and methods. 2.2: Panel discussion on the merits, demerits and recommendations. 2.3. Preparation and adoption of basic syllabus structure. Detailed syllabus to be worked out by the select experts committee.
Two Day conference on Practices:
Day Three:3.1. Concerts of select students undergone/undergoing study in conventional; innovative conventional; unconventional teaching techniques. Expert panel to critically discuss the adequacy, inadequacy and uniqueness of the success of each system demonstrated with students and their teachers.
Day Four:4.1:OPEN HOUSE discussion-Q&A sessions-Rasikas, Event managers, sponsors, Media, Musicologist, Musicians and Critics to participate with prepared questions and moderated by the panel consisting of -Musician cum Musicologist-Senior professionals (two) and Musician cum Musicologist-Young professional(two). Moderators to suggest most important ten issues in need of clarity and understanding.
4.2: Expert Panel consisting representatives of all the stake holders-Rasikas, Sponsors, Institutional-Foundations/Private/Public, Media, Event Managers, Musician, Musicologist and Critic to answer and share the knowledge with the participants of open house discussions. Recommend action plan for the corrective actions.

I request Shri Chitraveena Ravikiran and Sashikiran to plan and organize the events in Chennai-Bengaluru-Secunderabad. Both of you are proven event managers with success. If the results are highly contributing, the events may be planned in all the other important centers-Coimbatore, Vijyawada, Mangalore, Mumbai and New Delhi.
I will be meeting Great Maestros and Teachers Shri Chitraveena Narasimhan Sir-2nd Week of April'14, Shri M.S.Akella Shrama Sir and Shri R.K.Shrikantan Sir before end of April'14 to seek their advice. I will meet shri Chitraveena Ravikiran and Sashikiran to finalize the plan, as per the advice and guidance received. I prefer the four days events to happen sometime during the period of OCT(Bengaluru and Secunderabad) and NOV in Chennai.

Now, I request all the forunites to offer their views, questions in need of the answers and constructive suggestions.


munirao2001

Sivaramakrishnan
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#40 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by Sivaramakrishnan »

I find this thread a very informative one.
Despite the points of difference, the discussions are very enlightening and disciplined.
Hail the mutual respect among the learned!

munirao2001
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#41 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

MVRamanamurthy garu,

The idea, the goal and objective I expressed is fully, technically and correctly is reflected in your article of great merits. The approach outlined has to be seriously discussed in the Teacher's training and revised and uniform syllabus discussions suggested by me. Logically, let us not make it mythical with yet to be scientifically proven results. Myth making in the history of Indian Classical Music has not been helpful.
I now request all the other forunites with considerable knowledge and data base to contribute in the spirit of Shri MVRamanamurthy. This resource will support the success of this urgent need for change and for the noble cause of ICM.
munirao2001

msakella
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#42 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, muniraogaru,

Today only I could arrive back at my home and resume to my duties.

To tell the fact, since many centuries, standardizing the learning process of our music is a very much needed problem in respect of our kids, their parents and our music at large. This problem is not of a single State or region or country but global. Very sadly, since a very long time, the so called experts of the Music Academy, Chennai, the Mecca of Carnatic Music, are not minding their duties or fulfilling their responsibilities efficiently as teachers as none of them has the teachers’ perspective but performers’ perspective only. More over, it has many a time been proved, beyond any doubt, that all the Chennaites are either rasikas or performers in the guise of teachers. That is why we all have inexcusably lost the amazing finger-techniques of our legendry Violinists. In the same manner, by properly utilizing the modern technology, even though I have brought in a ‘time-bound, result-oriented and well-standardised’ system of learning our music by uploading 2 CDs to ‘sangeethamshare’ and more than 700 videos to ‘youtube’ for the free use and sole benefit of our kids, their parents and our music at large the hard-core, egoistic and ego-centric conservatives could neither help them in this manner nor let others help them.

In general, any where, anybody prefers to do things very fast and very efficiently saving the time and energy and also to get things very cheap saving the money too as saving the time, energy and money are most essential and preferable to lead their lives efficiently. In the same manner, even in our music, for the so called Gurus, who are revered even higher than their parents and even the God, it is the primary duty of each and every music-teacher to strive hard in finding different ways and means in properly utilizing the modern technology in possibly quickening the process of learning music making it “time-bound and result-oriented’ for the sole benefit of our kids, their parents and our music like a person utilizing the modern facility of helicopter or plane to go to Varanasi and come back within 24 hours or 48 hours after fulfilling his rituals.

Even in 2009, The Music Academy, Chennai has honoured me giving me the prestigious TTK Award on 01-01-2010 as a token of recognizing my remarkable contribution to the music community at large. Thus, the quickening process in learning music I have found was recognized even by the experts’ committee of the Music Academy, Chennai. But, now, in this panel discussion, the same experts’ committee, absolutely ignoring its own stand in this respect, finalized that a minimum duration of 15 years is a must to become a ‘full-fledged-musician’. To tell the truth, everybody is well aware that the ALMIGHTY is the only ‘full-fledged-musician’ in all respects in the Universe. Then, the members of the experts’ committee must be far higher even than the ALMIGHTY to shape many within 15 years duration as ‘full-fledged-musicians’ just like nuts and bolts produced by a machine. Even though, I can never become such a ‘full-fledged-musician’ in this life-time, if possible, I would like to meet some of these ‘full-fledged-musicians’ they have shaped for verification.

But, in this panel discussion, by finalising that a minimum duration of 15 years is a must to become a ‘full-fledged-musician’ the same experts’ committee which is mostly dominated by the hard-core, egoistic and ego-centric conservatives obviously revealed its dis-interest in quickening the process of learning our music to the aspirants thus, making the TTK Award given to me on 01-01-2010 a mere ritualistic award. They may desire to maintain ‘status-quo’ in this respect. But, I, having gone much deep into the modern system and thereby getting amazing results in our institution, Swarabhangima, at Secunderabad cannot leave our kids and their parents making them a prey to these conservatives, who neither help them properly nor let others help them properly.

As you wrote in your post we have Great Maestros but not Great Maestro Teachers. Had they been the true teachers they would certainly have welcomed these modern methods in learning our music by which the entire music community, though not the performers under the guise of teachers, get benefited.

You have very graciously allowed them time up to Nov., 2014 to fulfill the list of items you have furnished. But, I sincerely feel that every music-teacher will certainly try his level best to, somehow, defame this modern system as it not only incurs heavy financial loss but also spills out his/her own beans. As already mentioned in my book ‘Gurushishyasamvadamulu (Telugu)’ I had my own umpteen bitter experiences in this respect and I cannot remain optimistic with any of these institutions or the teachers working there in this respect even if you find fault with me. Even though I am not at all particular in defining this topic even to the members of the experts’ committee I want to make it much clearer that this committee doesn’t mind the duties or the responsibilities.

While all others are following the same age old quantitative method in teaching/learning our music, mainly, I am the only person on the globe who brought in this qualitative method in finishing the learning process from a teacher within the maximum duration of 5 years which we all have very successfully been following in our institute, Swarabhangima, at Secunderabad and getting amazing results unlike any other music-teacher on the globe. Thus, I am the only person to answer any question in this respect and I am always ready to do so for the benefit of our music community and to save the prestige of our Music Academy, Chennai..

As there is no guarantee of our own lives up to Nov., 2014, I, at this old age of 75 years, would like to finish this affair at the earliest. In this connection I already wrote a letter on 06-02-2014, to the Music Academy, Chennai for a positive response within the month end of Feb., 2014 in immediately holding a meeting with all the members of the experts’ committee and discuss in this respect failing against which I shall be compelled to surrender the TTK Award back to the Music Academy, Chennai at the earliest.

So, in view of all the above, if the people concerned in this respect are truly and truthfully interested in the welfare of our own kids, their parents and our music at large and if they are also willing to hold this meeting on 09-03-2014, Sunday at the Music Academy, Chennai and if they also confirm this before 24-02-2014 I shall certainly attend this on my own and do the needful. amsharma

munirao2001
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#43 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Brother msakella garu
Let us be totally focused on the goal and the objectives. With the encouraging and incredibly talented youth and still younger kids taking to the KM in increasing numbers, remain motivated to offer, share and train them in the knowledge, the profound values of both the traditional and the innovative methods, not in juxtaposition but complimenting and supplementing each other. I have realized that both have the immense potential to the learners and the rasikas for the realization of the bliss in KM, taking in to consideration the difference in the levels in the degree of passion, the saadhana and their own goals and of course, the standards of the teachers and their teaching.
I now beseech you to live in the present opportune moment, past of bitterness of rejection and the behavior of the individual or collective, eliminated and the vision of the great future of KM in the divine light of the bright and brilliant eyes and minds of the students and the rasikas. A loner's journey made thoroughly enjoyable in reaching the destination, in togetherness and in collective creativity. Unmindful of the total non responsiveness of all the individuals and the organizations to whom I had made the appeal and request to support this noble cause, I will relentlessly pursue the idea and serve the cause to the best of my ability.

munirao2001

msakella
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#44 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, muniraogaru,

Even after the lapse of more than 15 days after your previous post there is no proper response to your appeal.

Right from the beginning you have been very kind enough to respond promptly and positively. You have also been appealing for the active participation of the interested people. But, as I expected, the response is very poor even to honestly work hard for the benefit of our own kids.

If the system of learning music is efficiently standardized very strictly basing upon the logic the process could very easily be quickened arriving at the amazing end-results. In this process of standardization the aspirant will be initiated much and his role goes beyond 80% to work more on his own mostly depending upon the Casio moving confidently further and further even in the absence of the teacher. Surprisingly enough, in this modern qualitative method of learning formulated for the first time in the history the aspirant very quickly becomes able to write in notation, sing the written notation, sing intricate Svarakalpana and brief Ragalapana, unbelievably, within a span of hardly 3 years (here, in our institution all our kids are doing all these things very efficiently). This modern qualitative method in learning music is very highly beneficial to the aspirants and their parents. That is why, here, at Secunderabad many of the parents even residing at far off places are also shifting their residences to the nearby places to admit their kids in our institute, Svarabhangima. Basing upon the aspirants’ heavy demand we have opened eight branches also in the nearby localities. That is the amazing response we are getting here.

Even in respect of your open appeal as the time-limit, I have wantonly fixed, is expired, now, it became clear that, as happened in the panel discussion, everybody is interested only in the traditional old method of wasting 15 long years in learning music which, in fact, is suicidal to the aspirants and their parents but not in quickening the process at all for their benefit. By all this, it became clear that, nowadays, people do not hesitate to stoop down to any level to meet their selfish ends irrespective of their stature.

By the irresponsible behaviour of all the elders concerned, now, I was compelled to arrive at the conclusion that it is absolutely foolish even to try to, by any kind of action, make them sensible enough even in truly and truthfully working for the betterment of our own kids in this respect.

We have plenty of egoistic and ego-centric conservatives everywhere and here also, even though we have some of them to defame our activities they were already defused by our amazing results and the highly co-operative kids and their parents. In that way I am fortunate enough for having been blessed by the Almighty to work along with an efficient, honest, sincere and committed team of workers relentlessly striving hard for the betterment of our kids at our institute, Svarabhangima, at Secunderabad unlike any other music-institute on the globe.

And, whenever it is required, I shall certainly do the needful walking along with an honest, sincere and noble person like you in this respect. amsharma

rajeshnat
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#45 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by rajeshnat »

msakella wrote: This modern qualitative method in learning music is very highly beneficial to the aspirants and their parents. That is why, here, at Secunderabad many of the parents even residing at far off places are also shifting their residences to the nearby places to admit their kids in our institute, Svarabhangima. Basing upon the aspirants’ heavy demand we have opened eight branches also in the nearby localities. That is the amazing response we are getting here.
Akella gAru
Very nice to hear that you are growing . One of the days hold a mela where your students sing atleast 2 to 3 hours each in a concert. Keep it going Sir.

msakella
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#46 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, rajeshanat, Thank you dear. Certainly we are growing day by day. In June last year, 15 of our students sang half-an-hour concerts each like a mela for two days all singing Varnas @ 4-6-8 notes of both Purvanga & Uttaranga, intricate Svarakalpana and brief Ragalapana.

More over, on 30-11-2013 nearly 30 of our students have sung 2 ½ successful concert at Vijayawada bringing out many of the mathematical intricacies. On listening to this enthusiastic concert the organizers of another local Sabha there asked for similar another concert in May/June, 2014.

This is the thumping success of the modern, logical and qualitative system of learning music gracefully showered upon me by the Almighty, the efficient, honest and sincere teachers working in our institutes, hardworking kids and their fully-encouraging parents. amsharma

munirao2001
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#47 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Brother msakella garu
It is a fact that my appeal to the prominent sabhas and institutions in Bengaluru has not met with any response, till date. Cause is noble and need of the times. With your assured support and blessings and also with Shri Chitraveena Narasimhan Sir, I will rest not till work has commenced in right earnest in this vital aspect of the growth of Karnataka Music. I am planning to meet the event managers personally and discuss during the month of March'2014. I shall keep you informed about the outcome and development to seek your guidance.

munirao2001

msakella
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#48 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, muniraogaru,

When there are no automated traveling facilities people were used to go even by walk for even months together to go to far off places like Varanasi. But, nowadays, as such facilities are plenty, not even a fool goes by walk to such distant places. In the same manner, while everything made fast and easy in doing it in these modern days why the process of learning music also could not be made fast and easy? Yes, this also could be made very fast and easy. But, the music-teacher must be very efficient, honest and sincere in doing it which seems not possible by the past experience.

Even by listening to a cine-song in a CD many a time a kid is able to reproduce it very efficiently even without the help of any teacher. This obviously reveals that it is only the imitative ability of the individual to do so. But, to listen to a song many a time, as no technology was developed in those days either to record the sound or to play it back or even to carry it along the aspirant is compelled to depend upon the teacher or another co-student by which the process was elongated to many years of time.

Later, by the technological advancement in this respect, this became possible by the invention and introduction of the tape-recorder and gradually it has, now, been made very easy, less expensive and easily accessible to one and all by the introduction of CDs, DVDs, ipods, mp3 players etc., etc. By all this, recording of a song or to carry it or to play it back at any time and place became possible to the aspirant possibly quickening the process of listening and thus, also reducing the dependency of the aspirant. But, since time immemorial, as either the singer-teachers or the instrumentalist-teachers have always been used to sing or play in their concerts, they, in the same manner, are always used to play or sing while teaching the students also and ask them, in turn, to sing or play along with them. Thus, they have always been used to think singing or playing themselves itself is teaching and that there is no other way of teaching at all.

In the practical-oriented subjects it is always desirable to make the process of teaching/learning also practical-oriented to make the aspirant efficient in that subject. For example in teaching the driving of a motor-cycle the teacher must sit on the pillion, make the aspirant sit in the driver’s seat and initiate the aspirant drive the motor-cycle on his own by explaining him/her the operation and the co-ordination of the parts of it. However, the inter-relation of its accelerator and the clutch cannot be defined at all but only felt by the aspirant himself/herself along with the balance of the machine. In the same manner even while teaching cooking, the mother, herself sitting in a chair, must initiate her daughter in doing things while explaining her the process of it. However, cooking delicious food cannot be taught but depends upon the experience and taste of the aspirant only.

In the same manner, even while learning music, just like a hungry person who himself has to eat more but not the cook, the aspirant has to work hard on his own but not the teacher himself/herself. But, while learning classical-music, it is the duty of the teacher to make a proper plan not only to listen to the recorded lesson many a time but also to learn the music-grammar i.e., knowledge of Shruti & Laya, working on his own independently.

In general, any where in the world, even an insensitive fool responds properly for the hardship of his/her kids and try his/her level best to remove it then and there to make them happy. But, contrarily to this, very sadly, even the so called experts and legends in our music are adamant in saving our kids from their hardship of learning music for many years. Only to remove their hardship in learning music this modern, qualitative, time-bound and result-oriented method is brought and followed getting amazing end-results within a very short time.

However, to tell the truth, I have my own doubts in respect of these present music-performers (under the guise of teachers) who come forward to help our kids in following this modern method in their learning music in the absence of the teacher’s perspective and logical view. amsharma

msakella
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#49 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by msakella »

Dear brother-member, munirao garu,

By applying logic in doing many things in our life we can certainly do miracles. By doing the same it has been proved beyond any doubt that we can do miracles even in respect of our music also.

As mentioned in my earlier posts, by merely listening to a fixed cine-song many a time even a kid is able to reproduce it very efficiently even without the help of a teacher. By this it becomes clear that listening to a fixed music many a time helps the aspirant abundantly. Unlike in the olden days, now, fortunately, we have plenty of gadgets brought out in modern technology like CDs, DVDs, iPods, mp3 players etc. etc., and basing upon them I have made umpteen experiments upon my students and found amazing results.

By recording the items of our music on different tracks i.e., Pallavi, Anupallavi and Charana etc., on separate tracks this facilitates the aspirant listen to them repeatedly as many times as he/she requires to learn them efficiently. More over, by this, the teacher also need not be troubled to repeat them many times and even the aspirant can use them at any time and place of his/her choice.

Besides all the above, when I have recorded all the items of all the 9 symbolized Varnas on independent tracks and given to one of my disciples, Chi. J.S.Shreeram, he amazingly swallowed one entire Varna daily and, thus, all the Varnas on 9 consecutive days very quickly and efficiently. By all this we can very easily understand that a brilliant student can swallow much quickly while an average student moves on a snail’s pace. To facilitate this and also to make the process of learning very strictly ‘time-bound and result-oriented’ we are used to strictly follow a syllabus and give all the items with notation followed by audio CDs.

More over, by this, while the teacher’s energies are well saved to the maximum extent the aspirants and their parents also are benefited to the maximum extent. Thus, to be helpful to the maximum extent I have already uploaded two CDS to ‘sangeethamshare’ and 700 videos to ‘youtube’ to be accessible to any aspirant residing anywhere on the globe.

By all this, while conducting classes for my students, even online, except on needed occasions, I did never exert myself even for a minute or two while initiating the aspirant either in Vocal or Violin.

Having already led a parasitical life of a performer and an un-successful teacher for more than 40 years, now, only by the grace of the Almighty, I am very fortunate for having been realized myself and also to become able to serve our people efficiently, honestly and sincerely. amsharma

munirao2001
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#50 Re: Logical lapse in Manodharma Sangita Lec-dem in MA

Post by munirao2001 »

Dear brother msakella garu,
The need of the times is syllabus and teaching tools to be standardized. Standardization has to meet successfully the needs of the 1. Committed student with aspiration for both the knowledge-lakshya and lakshana; skills of performance delivering the total satisfaction to the rasika; with the intention of taking KM practice to support the living. 2. Student requiring adequate knowledge-lakshya and lakshana and skills of performance with the intention of becoming amateur performer with different career other than KM. 3. Student with aspiration to become a teacher with knowledge of-lakshya and lakshana. 4. Student with aspiration to become a musicologist with the knowledge of lakshya and lakshana and specialization in writing and lec demonstrations. 5. Student with aspiration to become a music correspondent, impresario and critic with the knowledge of lakshya and lakshana and specialization in content and review writing skills. 6. Student with aspiration for event management with music appreciation skills. 7. Student rasika with music appreciation.
Revised syllabus also to meet the requirement of different grades-Primary, Secondary-diploma, Higher-Graduation, post graduation and doctoral and research. Teacher training course and Certificate courses - short time duration- in all the above mentioned categories for skills improvement.
I seek your guidance Sir. Also seek forunites with ideas to share, with interest in serious dialogue rather than indulging in trivialities.

munirao2001

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