T.N. Krishnan

Carnatic Musicians
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bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

TNK on art then and now:
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/stri ... epage=true

Link courtesy of Arvind. The pun at the end of the article is laughably terrible.

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

And not the first time that specific pun was used either.

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

Bilahari,

Wow! This article takes some serious knowledge and understanding of TNK's music to make sense of -- and more than one reading despite that!

Thanks!

KNV1955
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by KNV1955 »

Todays concert of TNK with his son Sriram at Nada Inbam was a memorable one. He is 84 years old. I am convinced his bowing technique is unique & flawless. The best technique for Carnatic violinist. Combined with his extraordinary aesthetic sense, the music lingers on your mind & touches your heart. Sriram has absorbed his technique well.His Suruti & Sindhu Bhairavi are still ringing in my ears.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by vasanthakokilam »

srikant, bilahari: I agree. There is so much good stuff packed in that article and it requires multiple readings. I have bookmarked it as well.

KNV1955, well said.
"The audience is discerning and does not hesitate to express its opinion and point out a flaw. But audience response depends much on what we serve them. We need to help them experience classical music’s strikingly emotional qualities, rich texture and culturally significant technique without making it formulaic or watering it down.”
A lot of what gets expressed in our forum by many of us is neatly put in context by the above. There are so many layers of meaning to what he says. One aspect of what he says can be understood by analogy with 'communication' in general. A technically correct speech/writing need not necessarily be emotionally satisfying or even communicate the meaning very well. On the other hand, one needs some level of technical skills to speak or write. There comes a point that such skills are good enough and what matters then is the stuff behind it. I think it applies equally well to music. A lot of CM rasikas for some reason get caught up in technical details a bit much which can interfere with their own full enjoyment of what is being offered. Aesthetically superior performance amidst possible technical imperfection is the key. And the reverse is bad. One can have a great concert even if it is technically not perfect. And Sri. TNK puts it on the musicians to strive for that kind of music that even this so called 'discerning and knowledgeable' rasikas can put their 'knowledge' aside and just enjoy the music.

varsha
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by varsha »

Combined with his extraordinary aesthetic sense, the music lingers on your mind & touches your heart.
A fine duet of TNK with Late Bale Khan(of Dharwar) on Sitar . With UKS - Ravindra Yavagal
http://www.mediafire.com/?x4qpup8mv5s69

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Here is a 1983 live concert recording of TNK-Viji-Dorai:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/5i91ny

There is an elaborate raghuvara nannu, chakkani rAja (WHAT an alapanai), and RTK in hindOLam. The concert has that quiet dignity coupled with intensity that typifies TNK's art, with sensitive accompaniment by Sri Dorai. Viji's accompaniment is solid as well.

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

I opened my Sangeethamshare account with an upload of a 2001 AIR concert of TNK with KVP featuring a lovely brOvavamma with RNS.
http://www.sangeethamshare.org/vignesh/TNK/001-TNK/

Plenty of TNK, MSG, and MDR coming up in my folder, so if you like these musicians, keep a look out.

srikant1987
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

A video by Smt S Sowmya saluting TNK. ​http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo-RUcgt12c

rahm221
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rahm221 »

Bilahari,

Can you please repost the 1983 concert recording of TNK-Viji-Dorai. The link has expired.

maduraimini
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by maduraimini »

T.N.Krishnan's violin is one of the Best. His music takes you to unimaginable heights. My children, who don't know Carnatic music, always listen to his violin and love it. My daughter makes it a point to go to his concert, when he is playing near her. I always remember him accompanying Ariyakudi, when I was young. They made a very good pair. His Sindhubhairavi is wonderful and makes me feel I am in heaven. It has been ages since I heard him in person ,but I do listen to him on You Tube and each time it takes me back to olden days. His music is special.

sitaky
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by sitaky »

Maduraimini, SPICMACAY has an array of vintage programmesfor their international convention at Kolkaata. Incidentally I am listening to T.N.Krishnan. The Shenai recital, the Sarod andHindustani vocal music are incredible.You name it and you have it.All the programmes are deferred webcast. A request -if you enjoy themplease post your views.
site :spicmacay.com.
Or addiqtd.com

bilahari
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by bilahari »

Rahm221, I will reupload the TNK concert soon.

Maduraimini, a sindhu bhairavi is forthcoming too.

sraja
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by sraja »

Is it upload again the TNK Jugalbandhi with UKS on the mridangam. Thanks in advance

Aditto
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Aditto »


SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

That photo of TNK in the Hindu article is interesting. I know that TNK's bow arm is the strongest in the field and he still has a lot of muscle in that arm even in his 80s. In general as violinists get older, the bow arm is the first to weaken and lose it's suppleness -- which leads to loss of tone, articulation and technique. Without exercise, muscle strength begins to noticeably decrease near 50 onward. Which makes me wonder what he does to keep his fitness and energy at that age.

Also interestingly he has a finer tuner only on the E string (steel) so I wonder what strings he uses to get his beautiful tone. Also he tunes his violin to I think F or F# (4 or 4.5 kattai).

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

SrinathK wrote:Which makes me wonder what he does to keep his fitness and energy at that age.
He just bows the violin to keep his muscles well-exercised. :D
Also interestingly he has a finer tuner only on the E string (steel) so I wonder what strings he uses to get his beautiful tone.
He uses gut strings from Pirastro. He tunes them to F (4).

Indeed, he never uses the fine tuner. He is able to tune using the pegs even when bowing, so I guess he doesn't really need fine tuners.

SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

Ah, Gut strings, now I understand. Thanks srikant1987. And even though this thread is on TNK, do you have any idea on what strings MSG and LGJ played on? Old pics of Lalgudi and MSG seem to indicate that both used gut strings as well (no fine tuner even).

maduraimini
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by maduraimini »

Thank you sitaky for giving me the site for TNK's music. I will go to the site and look for songs I have heard him play. Thanks again. Bilahari, thanks for the forthcoming Sindhubhairavi of TNK. I am sure it will be a memorable one, as all his music was. Thank you!

Nick H
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Nick H »

Is the use of gut strings a part of TNK's sweetness of tone?

(Of course, I realise that TNK is the major reason for TNK's sweetness of tone :) )

SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

Dear Nick H, as far as I know gut has the most complex range of sound colours and overtones and the sound of the strings is very sensitive to the quality of bowing, contact point, pressure, bow velocity and even the finger contact point & pressure, as well as the mechanism of gamaka and vibrato. However they need to be fully stretched for a week or so before they sound well, till then they simply "scrape and bite". Also they have to be tuned to the right pitch otherwise the lack of tension produces scraping noises -- the loose string will stretch and rebound like a rubber band whenever the bow changes direction. They are also sensitive to temperature and humidity changes especially in the beginning. Fine tuners do not work on them because they are too elastic -- if the tuning pegs and holes are properly bored it is easier to tune them with the pegs than steel strings (which are almost impossible to tune without the fine tuner). This is actually a plus from the tonal point of view -- eliminating the fine tuners reduces the mass on the tailpiece and this results in less dampening of frequencies.

Friction on gut strings is greater than on metal and so rosin is generally used only sparingly. Gut strings when played with a sharp attack close to the bridge have a certain "bite" with the bow and this results in a sandy "edge" to the sound that is however only heard at close range -- in mic-less concerts in concert halls, although the sharp edge is not heard, it nevertheless considerably improves clarity of articulation allowing the notes to be cleanly heard. At the same time with gentle bow changes, a skilled player can also completely eliminate all indication that the bow is actually changing direction. Another challenge in gut strings is that when playing high up the fingerboard, the pressure of the finger actually stretches the string enough to noticeably alter it's pitch as the string is pressed down to reach the finger board resulting in what sounds like a hastily corrected apaswaram. Also too much bow pressure at the start of the note could "choke" the sound of the string.

For added mass and more power, a typical gut setup in Western violin usually involves a metal (silver) wound G string (Gut core w/metal winding), either plain or silver wound gut D string, a plain gut A string and steel E string. (Gut E's have a wonderful sound, but break too easily) -- when carefully chosen, the steel E can nicely complement the warm sound of the guts with it's brilliance in the higher frequencies. Unlike steel strings, gut strings have to be tuned down and loosened at the end of every playing session otherwise they will continue to elongate and could break due to sudden temperature changes. Another issue with guts is that they don't last as long as synthetic or metal and are costlier. However they are much easier on the fingers as they are much less stiff.

Another specialty of this setup is that the bridge for gut strings is cut much higher than steel strings and where a steel E is used the bridge will be taller on the G side and slope down to the E as tension increases. Gut strings are also quite thick and so they require more strength in one's bow arm and wrist, but the thick string also produces a nice dark sound. Steel by comparison is quite thin.

Nevertheless with skillful bowing and good fingering technique, all the challenges with gut can be overcome and in the hands of a skilled player their sound is still unmatched. Also gut strings are very important in developing a musician's individual sound. As gut strings require very good bowing and tone production techniques, each artiste finds their own way to "tame the beast" and this gives each one their own identity to the sound. All the greatest violinists worldwide have therefore used them (with some exceptions) for classical music. The sarangi uses entirely gut strings for it's 100+ tonal colours after which it's named.

Sources : Lots of classical, carnatic & hindustani recordings and my experience last year when I was in college I got a new violin which came with a set of guts and a steel E. I had a very hard time settling down with them, but the tonal quality was something else. Steel might have the power, respond quicker and be considerably easier to play on, but the best tone belongs to the guts.
Last edited by SrinathK on 29 May 2013, 15:09, edited 5 times in total.

Nick H
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Nick H »

Great insights ...Thank you :)

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

Srinath, Nice to see your continued scholarly contributions to the forum. Are you also trained as a violinist?
TNK has had this sweetness of tone for several decades now. Do you think he has been using the same kind of strings all along?

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

TNK has had this sweetness of tone for several decades now. Do you think he has been using the same kind of strings all along?
Yes, he has said so in interviews.

Besides, he has also said that he even uses the same gauge, from accompanying MDR to Mali. He earlier played solos in D#, and for some time in E, before moving to F. So that's where Nick's "major reason" comes in. ;)

He also points out that it was much harder to be choosy with strings and stuff back in those days (you couldn't simply visit www.pirastro.com and pay with your MasterCard, you know?) -- but his father and also Sri Papa Venkatramiah were very particular about them.

Sometimes the logistical difficulties musicians -- and music organizers -- faced in those days simply skip off our mind. It takes some candid talking by those people to get some insight into them. The Music Academy Session, for example.

Indeed, when these greats say, they started training at two or three, we only think -- yeah, that's a very small number. But it was when Sri TNK pointed out that he couldn't even read a clock when he was learning bhairavi varNam and such compositions that we really understand the kind of emphasis Sri Narayana Iyer laid on his musical training.

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

Some basic googling confirmed my "gut" feeling that gut strings are indeed made of animal gut. Has this ever been an issue in Indian violin circles? I am assuming people are just as comfortable with it as percussionists are with animal skin on their drums.

And so where did Indian violinists get their supplies from before this era of pirastro.com?

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

Has this ever been an issue in Indian violin circles? I am assuming people are just as comfortable with it as percussionists are with animal skin on their drums.
Srinath has mentioned that the sArangi uses gut strings too.

SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

Dear mahavishnu, on a side note it's a bad, bad world we live in -- the same extends for mridangams & kanjiras, the whole dairy industry, and everything made of leather -- shoes, belts, car upholsteries, bags, wallets, clothes -- not to mention silk fabrics. In fact the same extends to plastic bags, rubber tyres, fireworks (!!), toothpaste, shampoos, refined sugar (!!), brake fluids, creams and gels, ink toners, photographic film, perfumes, crayons and even the very computers and electronic devices we use to type these posts! And more than 350 pharmaceutical products -- Insulin, cortisone, heart valve transplants, surgical gloves (!!), capsules... In all about 98% of an animal is used somewhere or the other and since they are all natural products they are biodegradable and improve the biodegradability of synthetic products -- gut strings & mridangam skins are only a part of the story. You know that the glue that is used in violins & pianos or most wooden instruments that essentially keeps them from falling apart is also an animal product?

By going vegetarian or vegan or avoiding plastic bags, we can avoid some of this, but that's about it. Many synthetic substitutes for animal products are in fact worse for the environment because of their highly toxic and non-biodegradable nature. So maybe the only option left for us now is to turn to the Bhagavad gita, "sarva dharmaan parityajya maam ekam sharanam vraja aham tvam sarva papebhyo mokshayisyaami ma suchah" :| (Surrender to God alone and do not grieve)

Anyway, coming back on topic. At least for violin strings, plenty of synthetic options are available now although they will always have to be compared to gut. In fact gut is quite costly and I think it's more affordable abroad than here. TNK sir's beautiful sound is due to how he has evolved his bowing technique in the era of gut strings -- for great musicians their sound is almost like a patented product so I believe that once they've settled on a good set they'll mostly keep it unaltered throughout their career.

Gut has been the preferred (and mostly the only available) choice for musical instruments for more than two thousand years! The yazh used it (narambu), the sarangi has always used it and gut strings have always been available long before Pirastro came into existence. Harps discovered from sites of old roman towns had gut strings that could still produce some sound despite being buried for 2000 years or so.

mahavishnu
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by mahavishnu »

Srinath, thanks for your detailed response.

rshankar
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rshankar »

SrinathK wrote: -- Insulin, cortisone,
Not really true - Insulin is made using rDNA technology from E. coli - the bacteria secrete it into the supernatant media, from which the peptide is purified. Way back when, we used to have bovine and porcine insulins on the market (extracted from pancreata of cows and pigs respectively) that were very highly immunogenic. Not so anymore. I think insulin can also be made using a yeast system as well.
Cortisone is typically synthesized in chemists' labs.

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

Nick H wrote:Of course, I realise that TNK is the major reason for TNK's sweetness of tone
Here's what TNK says about it:
I was [asked] whether I’ve played a Stradivarius. I promptly replied saying I have and it’s worth every bit of the hype that it’s given. But the nuances of the instrument will be known only to me; the audiences will only know that the music is good. However, it isn’t about the beauty of the instrument or the clarity it gives, as much as the way I play it. It’s similar to a driver who is in a Jaguar, after driving a Maruti. While the driver himself will be astounded by the change in quality, the passengers will only know that it is excellent, without knowing why or how. But the passengers will only have a good experience if the driver is good, irrespective of which car it is.
-- http://www.highonscore.com/tete-a-tete- ... n-krishnan

arasi
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by arasi »

Srikanth,
Thank you! So well put, not a surprise, coming from TNK!

Read the interview too. The interviewer mentioning Aryagudi Ramanuja Iyer was amusing to read :)

srikant1987
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srikant1987 »

It is remarkable how much easier it is to SING his music, and how hard it is to play on the violin!

THAT is what we call gAyaki playing! =)

srkris
Site Admin
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by srkris »


harimau
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by harimau »

SrinathK wrote:
You know that the glue that is used in violins & pianos or most wooden instruments that essentially keeps them from falling apart is also an animal product?

The violins are in India are glued together with Fevicol, much to the dismay of Mr Wimmer, a gentleman from Santa Barbara who came to Chennai last year at the instance of Lalgudi GJR Krishnan to conduct a workshop to train Indian technicians on the nuances of repairing violins. He finally found a shop in Chennai that had a supply of horse glue, the preferred material for use in musical instruments.

Right now, the second such workshop is going on in T-Nagar with half a dozen technicians learning from Mr Wimmer.

Perhaps this workshop will become an annual affair.

SrinathK
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by SrinathK »

Never mind, I haven't seen anyone yet who can cut me a proper bridge. Last time I did that exercise, it resulted in one ruined Aubert 3 star and it was cut so bad that it felt like I was playing on steel bars instead of strings. I borrowed a friend's violin only to find that the strings (ahem, solid metal bars) were so high above the board I couldn't even press them down properly and I wondered, "How in the world does this guy manage to play concerts with THIS and not break his tendons?"

I've played on a couple of instruments that have also been properly set up. It's effortless by comparison. You feel like the violin guides you right to where you want to play.

rajeshnat
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rajeshnat »

writeup on this great vidwan Prof T N Krishnan dated Dec 07,2018
https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/ ... 680704.ece

rajeshnat
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by rajeshnat »

The year was 1980 , sangeetha kalanidhi was given to Prof TN Krishnan. Atleast that year there were moments when Lalgudi Jayaraman was not happy is what we all heard. About 5 to 10 years back i heard from a senior musician who is not any more that TM Thyagarajan then was not happy that he was passed . The very next year 1981 TMT got it . Semmangudi had a great say then.

Surprise after 39 years we are now having parthasarathi swami sabha honouring Prof TN Krishnan with the Sangeetha kalasarathy . Incidentally this year they have given to TNK, Guravayoor Durai and TV gopalakrishnan. Nice of this lovely Prathasarathy sabha a 100 year old sabha to honour great artists.

When the name TNK pops i have an imagery of he playing Keeravani . How beautifully he plays that raga . kudos to Prof TN Krishnan on his sangeetha kalasarathy -2019.

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

Rajesh: While the main points of the "backdrop" you have mentioned are factually correct there were more nuances and pushes and pulls involved as told by my late father K.S.Mahadevan. While this forum may not be the appropriate space to regurgitate the issue, the bottom line is that SSI did not come out ahead despite the fact that two of his disciples were to be the contenders. The issue was handled acc to my late Dad in a "ham-fisted" way by MA(what else to do you expect from this body anyway!!). TMT was more hurt because in my opinion and in the opinions of other contemporary artistes,he was an epitome for "THOZHIL DHARMAM"

.

shankarank
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by shankarank »

Here is an energetic concert : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbYByZvCvU.

This predates the forum and the video ID did not turn up in search.

shankarank
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by shankarank »

Meeting of the legends TNK and PMI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlJvfE2X7nE

Interesting positioning of purAkumba sambhava muni vara in vAtapi. Full of Verve!

K Nagarajan
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Re: T.N. Krishnan

Post by K Nagarajan »

TN Krishnan
Vellore G Ramabhadran
45 RPM - Columbia - 1965
kaligiyunte gada - keeravani

https://youtu.be/9VK_PZUR5j8

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