Papanasam Sivan

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

kRti 'dEvi nIyE tuNai ten madurai vAzh mIna lOcani'.

In the caraNa, it occurs as kAncana malai pudalvi - this is rendered as 'kAncana mAlai pudalvi'.
The lordly mountain Himavan who is the greatest treasure trove of minerals, Rama, also treasures up a pair of daughters who by their comeliness are unequalled on earth. The slender-waisted and fascinating daughter of Mt. Meru, oh, Rama, renowned by her name Mena, is the dear wife of Himavan and the mother of those two daughters, indeed.

This Ganga has emerged as an elder daughter to Himavan through Mena, oh, Raghava, and that way a girl renowned by the name Uma has become a second daughter to him. Later, all of the divinities intending to fulfil a divine purpose have sought the lordly mountain Himavan to spare Ganga, who is scheduled to become a tri-way-cruising river. With a righteous thinking and hopeful of the welfare in triadic world, Himavan then spared his daughter Ganga whose flow is at her own volition.
Srimad vAlmIki rAmAyaNa, bAla kANDa, Chapter 35 refers.
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarg ... _prose.htm
Last edited by vgvindan on 20 Jul 2007, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

VGV
what is kAnca?

kAncanamAlai was the name of the pANDya queen whose daughter was taDAdagai/mInAkShi.

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

drs,
that was my mistake - it should read 'kAncana'. - I have corrected it.
Is it 'kAncana mAlai' the name of mother of pArvati? Is mEnA called 'kAncana mAlai'? I doubt.
Last edited by vgvindan on 20 Jul 2007, 18:50, edited 1 time in total.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

vgv
mInAkShi was born as th pANDya princess taDAdagai. And her queen mother was kAncanamAla. There is little room for doubt here. Why are you connecting mEnA to kAncanamAlA? malayadhvaja was the pANDya king and kAncanamAlai his wife.


rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Weren't the pANDya king and queen who performed the putrakAmESTi malayadhwaja pANDyan and his queen kAncanamAlA? mInAkshI emerged from the fire (malayadhwajanin tava payan - malayadhwajan mA tavamE) and was adopted by them as their child. So, neither is malayadhwajan the same as himavAn, nor is kAncanamAla any connection to mEnA.

In the mInAkshi suprabhAtam, Dr. Raghavan (the composer, kavikOkilam) begins with the phrase 'mInAkshi dEvi, maladhwaja pANDya putrI'.....

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

The story of mInAkSi as daughter of malaydhvaja pANDya and kAncana mAla seems to be local variation of what is contained in major purANas about umA.

The name 'kAnca mAla' is too coincidental with 'mEna - daughter of mEru' which is called 'kAncana parvata' or 'kAncana malai' in tamil.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

VGV
You stick to your point of view so rigidly. Each sthaLa has a sthaLapurANa attached to it. madurai has its. This is no new concocted version.

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

drs,
I am afraid I have not made any such statement about it being concocted.

Every major purAna has local variations. Even rAmAyaNa has so many variations. For example 'rAmcaritra mAnas' and 'kamba rAmAyaNa' have been derived from vAlmIki rAmAyaNa. But ultimately the version of vAlmIki rAmAyaNa would be taken as authority because the derivatives cannot overrule the original version on major issues. For example, sItA's abduction is treated differently by 'rAmcaritra mAnas' but that will remain only a variation.
This is what I wanted to bring out.

drshrikaanth
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Post by drshrikaanth »

vgvindan wrote:kRti 'dEvi nIyE tuNai ten madurai vAzh mIna lOcani'.

In the caraNa, it occurs as kAncana malai pudalvi - this is rendered as 'kAncana mAlai pudalvi'.
vgv. This is what I do not agree with. Whatever may be the origins of kAncanamAlA's name, in the caraNa of this song, it is kAncanamAlai only and not kAncana malai as you reckon. In other words, the words as sung by musicians are not at variance with what the composer composed (True to the sthalapurANa).

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

drs,
The observation was based on my understanding of what is said elsewhere. After reading what you said about sthala purANa, I did not press my point about wrong rendering of the kRti. Neither I made any observation about the composer being wrong. If that is what you are trying to insist, I solemly withdraw my observation about wrong rendering of the kRti.

But I am entitled to my opinions and they stand.

baboosh
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Post by baboosh »

vgvindan wrote:drs,
The observation was based on my understanding of what is said elsewhere. After reading what you said about sthala purANa, I did not press my point about wrong rendering of the kRti. Neither I made any observation about the composer being wrong. If that is what you are trying to insist, I solemly withdraw my observation about wrong rendering of the kRti.

But I am entitled to my opinions and they stand.
In Tiruvilayadal purana and also Halasya mahathmya,Sri.Meenakshi's mother is referred to as Kanchanamaalai.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2007/09/21/stor ... 150300.htm

Sure to be a treat! Hopefully, someone will review.

ramya
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Post by ramya »

hi,

i would like to have the lyrics of the song chotham irangadha in sahana by Papanasam Shivam..please

thanks

meena
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Post by meena »

cittam irangAdEnaiyyA. rAgA: shahAnA. tALA: cApu

P: cittam irangAdEnaiyA shendil vElaiyA nin cittam
irangAdEnaiyA shiriyEniDam aru mAmukha shiridEnum nin
C: paghal iravum paNindu pDdi bhajikkum enpAl nin talaiyil malai vIzhndAlum
tAnga SaNmukhan uNDenrulagam ariya undan tiruvaDi aDaindEnE malaiyO en
vinai undan karuNaittuLi irundAl vaiyam viyakka rAmadAsan tannai rakSikka nin

ramya
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Post by ramya »

meena,

cittam means anger ?
what is the meaning of this line?irangAdEnaiyA shiriyEniDam aru mAmukha shiridEnum nin

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Ramya,
cittam is mind/thoughts/heart...also means consciousness
cittam irangAdadEnaiyyA - the poet is pleading with muruga (vElaiyyA - the one who wields a spear/vEl, the resident deity of tirucendUr - sendil), will your (nin) heart/mind/thoughts (cittam) not allow you to treat me, a very small person (siriyEn), with even the tiniest bit of compassion (irakkam - compassion - irangAdadEnaiyyA = irangAdadu + En + ayyA. irangAdadu - not being compassionate, En - why, ayyA - repected sir), Oh mighty six faced one?
siriyEniDam - siriyEn - small individual (small/tiny/inconspicuous) + iDam - with or to - the concept is the same as annamayyAs 'dInuda nEnu, dEvuDavu nInu'....
aru mA mukh(g)A = Oh mighty (m[ah]A) six (aru) faced (mukhA) one!

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

The Tamil word 'cittam' with reference God or any reverential person, generally means 'will' or 'pleasure' - Please see Dictionary examples -

உம்முடையசித்தம். (ummuDaiya cittam) According to your pleasure, as you please. சித்தத்தின்படி--சித்தமானபடி. (cittattinpaDi - cittamAnapaDi) According to one's pleasure, choice, &c. தங்கள் சித்தமெங்கள்பாக்கியம். (tangaL cittamengaL bAggiyam) Your pleasure is the source of our happiness; if you will it, we are made happy.

ramya
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Post by ramya »

thank you

ramya
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Post by ramya »

meena looks like there is a line missing in the lyrics u have given me.when i listened to the anu pallavi there is something like
bhaktha irangum dheenabandhu enru unnai nambi.is this line correct.pls give me the missing line.

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

There is indeed a line missing. It is my mistake. I think Meena might have got the text from my lyrics CD.
Here is the corrected version:

cittam irangAdEnaiyyA. rAgA: shahAnA. cApu tALA.

P: cittam irangAdEnayya sendil vElayyA
nin cittam irangAdEnayyA siriyEniDam aru mAmukha siridEnum nin
A: cittam irangAdEnaiyA shiriyEniDam aru mAmukha shiridEnum
nin bhaktark-kirangum dIna bandhu enrunnai nambi
C: paghal iravum paNindu pDdi bhajikkum enpAl nin talaiyil malai vIzhndAlum
tAnga SaNmukhan uNDenrulagam ariya undan tiruvaDi aDaindEnE malaiyO en
vinai undan karuNaittuLi irundAl vaiyam viyakka rAmadAsan tannai rakSikka nin

ashok ramani
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Joined: 27 Oct 2007, 06:36

Post by ashok ramani »

Hello All,
iam the grandson of Papanasam sivan.i had the opportunity to look at this forum very recently.I will be happy to share my views in this forum. I also would like to inform you that i have launched my webiste www.shivanisai.com an year back.
papanasam ashok ramani

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Welcome Ashok Ramani!! Your contributions will be very useful to the members of the forum. Thanks.

ashok ramani
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Post by ashok ramani »

Dear lakshman,
Iam giving below the correct format of Chitam irangadenaiya song.

P :cittam irangAdEnayya sendil vElayyA (nin)
siriyEniDam aru mAmukha siridEnum nin

A :bhaktark-kirangum dIna bandhu enrunnai nambi
paghal iravum paNindu pDdi bhajikkum enpAl nin

C: talaiyil malai vIzhndAlum tAnga SaNmukhan uNDenru
Ulagam ariya undan tiruvaDi aDaindEnE
malaiyO en vinai undan karuNaittuLi irundAl
vaiyam viyakka rAmadAsan tannai rakSikka nin

ashok ramani

ashok ramani
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Post by ashok ramani »

thank you vasanthakokilam

ashok ramani
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Post by ashok ramani »

Hi Mohan,
We have a lot of activities related to Papanasam sivan.All these details i have uploaded in the site.we also have a blog and we can discuss in that forum about papanasam sivan also.Thanks for sharing the information about my site.

papanasam ashok ramani

Sundara Rajan
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Post by Sundara Rajan »

I wonder if the pallavi should be " cittam irangAdadEnayya", since the two words ( irangAdadu + yEn ) will result only as "irangAdadEn" and NOT "irangAdEn" !
I have heard musicians sing it as it is printed in the book as mentiond by one and all above, including the lyricist's grandson, but I do feel it may be a printer's error that went uncorrected and is perpetuated.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Yes, Sundara Rajan, it is a typo. You would find that rshankar has spelt it correctly in his translation and has explained the compound word by splitting it into: cittam+irangAdadu+En+aiyyA.

Sundara Rajan
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Post by Sundara Rajan »

Thank you Arasi. I went by Lakshman's and Ashok Ramani's postings only and had missed rshankar's posting before that. It should be noted that many musicians sing only as "iragAdEnayyA" and hope that they will note the correct version.

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

Thanks Ashok.

ragam-talam
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Post by ragam-talam »

Came across mention of Sivan's autobiography here:
http://chennaionline.com/musicnew/Carna ... /207th.asp

Has anyone read it?

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Dear SIVAN Rasikas,
There is an EXCELLENT CD-ROM which is COMPLETE- has all the deatails about Sivan- produced by Asok Ramani his grand son. IIN MY OPINION ANY ONE IN TWNTIET CENTURY FROM TAMIL NADU SHOULD OWN & SEE IT IN DEPTH. will be happy to copy the one I have & mail it 10 U.S.Dollars are donated to the organisation trying to propagate sivan's monumental contributions. PL e mail me at vkv43034@yahoo.com vkv

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

HI ALL, I notice Asok Ramani is posting in this site. May be he can be contacted to get copies of his excellent cd-rom a must for anyone interested in Sivan. vkv

I am only
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Post by I am only »

Can anyone tell who is the author of 'Shanthi Nilava Vendum in the raga tilang?

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Sethu Madhava Rao

ramya
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Post by ramya »

can someone please send me the lyrics of 'kanindarul purindhal' written by Papanasam Shivam in kalyani sung in praise of Goddess Karpagambal.

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

kanindaruL. rAgA: kalyANi. tALA: tisra Adi

P: kanindaruL purindhAl karuNai kuraindiDumO
kalpaka mAtA un kazhal paNi Ezhaikkum unNdan uLLam
A: ananta vidamAyun anantam tiru nAmam
ninaindu pulambinEn shinam taiNindu shiridu nI
C: purAri panguraiyum purANi mAmayilai pirAn kapAli magizh varAbhayam tarum un
karAra vindamadAl murAri sOdariyE parAdhi enru en mEl parAmukham koLLAmal uLLam

prashant
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Post by prashant »

The varnameTTu of this krithi BTW is identical to that of birAna brOva idE.

ramya
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007, 04:27

Post by ramya »

thank you.could you pls give the meaning of the song as some of the words are difficult to understand.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

Ramya,

Here you go:

P:
kanindaruL purindAl karuNai kuraindiDumO kalpaka mAtA
un kazhal paNi Ezhaikkum unNdan uLLam

Oh mother (mAtA) who grants any desire that can be thought of (kalpaka)! Will the reserves of compassion (karuNai) in your (unadu) heart (uLLam) run low (kuraindiDumE) if you find it in your heart to tenderly (kanindu) shower (purindAl) your grace (aruL) on this impoveriished (Ezhaikkum) who offers prayers (paNi) at your (un) the anklets (kazhal) that adorn your feet.
A:
ananta vidamAyun anantam tiru nAmam
ninaindu pulambinEn Sinam taNindu Siridu nI

I have lamented (pulambinEn) as I have remembered/chanted (ninaindu) your (un) myriad (anantam) divine (tiru) names (nAmam) in many different (ananta) ways (vidamAi), so I request you (nI) to dispel (taNindu) this sloth (cinam) of yours and show a little (Siridu) (compassion on me).

C:
purAri panguraiyum purANi mAmayilai pirAn
kapAli magizh varAbhayam tarum un
karAravindam adAl murAri sOdariyE parAdhi
enru en mEl parAmukham koLLAmal uLLam

Oh queen (purANi) who shares (panguraiyum) half a body with the enemy (ari) of the three cities of the asuras (pura), or Siva, you are the one the Lord (pirAn) of mayilApUr (mAmayilai), kapAli, delights in (magizh). Oh sister (sOdariyE) of the enemy (ari) of the demon mura (vishNu)! Please bless me with (adAl) your (un) lotus-like hands (karAravindam) that grant (tarum) the boon (vara) of fearlessness (abhayam)! Will your compassion run low if you find it in your heart to tenderly shower your grace on me without (koLLAmal) turning your face away (pArAmukham) from me because (enru) I am destitute (parAdhi)?
Last edited by rshankar on 23 Aug 2008, 01:31, edited 1 time in total.

gangar2758@vsnl.net
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Post by gangar2758@vsnl.net »

Sambho Mahaadeva Saranam Sreekaalhastheesa, Roopakathaala, Bhoopala??? bowli isnt it

gangar2758@vsnl.net
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Post by gangar2758@vsnl.net »

lyrics for chittaiswara in maadayai any clue? kvn mama has sung .

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

Is there an audio link?

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

An excellent write up on one of the finest vageyakkara-vidwan combination.
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/04/17/stor ... 260400.htm

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

A report on the recently concluded remembrance festival: http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/10/02/stor ... 970300.htm

rajeshnat
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Re: Papanasam Sivan

Post by rajeshnat »


Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Papanasam Sivan

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

The famous song 'vadanamE chandra bimbamO' was written by Sri Papanasam Sivan for the film Sivakavi. The following information on this song provided in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivakavi is interesting:-

The lyrics for the songs were penned by the music director Papanasam Sivan. He originally penned the song Vadaname Chandra Bhimbamo as Mugam Adhu Chandra Bimbamo. But when M. K. Thyagaraja Bhagavathar pointed out to Sivan how "Mugam Adhu" sounded like "Muhammad", Sivan changed it to "Vadaname".

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 08:33

Re: Papanasam Sivan

Post by Ramasubramanian M.K »

The stories relating to Sivan's mentor (late A.K.Ramachandra Iyer in whose family even trash cans will sing in perfect pitch!!) remind us of those greats like Sivan who never forgot the patronage they received at the hands of mentors like AKR-no matter how famous they themselves became--sign of the times. One cannot but lament the indiference by some of the contemporary musicians towards mentors who may have contributed to their "stardom".
I have seen a diary maintained by Sivan in the Mid/late thirties--it was a Hoe and Co diary--famous in Chennai in the twenties and thirties)--one page would contain a song and if there is space for a quarter of a page, will be filed in with Dhobhi account(#of Dhotis,shirts etc)--in the opposite page facing the page of the composition,would be accounts of vegetables/fruits bought and their prices and quantities--another page would contain another song and the space remaining will be devoted to details of Rly fares and timings --from mayavaram to Chennai-in fact I used to joke to my father (to whom Ashok Ramani had loaned the diary to do a write-up on Sivan's centenary celebs in 1990) that if economists were starved of reliable data on the consumer price indices of those days all that one had to do was to borrow Sivan's diary--seldom have I seen Laukikam and Divinity so closely intertwined!!!

cmlover
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Re: Papanasam Sivan

Post by cmlover »

That is a delightful recollection MKR.
I had my uncle's Hoe and Co diary of the 20's and used to be amazed by the prices in those days. They also summarized succinctly our family history... In fact all such diaries should be archived out of historical interest

Lakshman
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Re: Papanasam Sivan

Post by Lakshman »

A number of film songs composed by P.Shivan can be found in vol 7 of kirtanamalai.

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