Arunachala Kavi

Carnatic composers (other than performing vidwans)
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vs_manjunath
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Arunachala Kavi

Post by vs_manjunath »

"eppadi manam thanindhadho sAmi" of Arunachala Kavi Rayar in Kambodhi has any one sung this song ? Request for audio links.

CRama
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by CRama »

This song is sung in Huseni in a delectable manner by TNS in one of his commercial release of Ramanataka Kritis of Arunachalakavirayar. DKP also has sung this in Huseni in one concert.

bharathi
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by bharathi »

There is rendition by Bombay Jayashri in the commercial release Amirtham; another was of Sanjay Subramanyam in the commercial release Tamizh Moovar

vs_manjunath
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by vs_manjunath »

Thanks CRama & bharathi for your inputs.
I beleive Mahavaidyanatha Sivan had sung this song in Kambodhi!

rshankar
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by rshankar »

vs_manjunath wrote:"eppadi manam thanindhadho sAmi" of Arunachala Kavi Rayar in Kambodhi has any one sung this song ? Request for audio links.
Sri Manjunath small correction - it is 'eppadi manam tuNindadO?' meaning 'how did you mind/heart even dare to...?'. taNindadO would mean 'how did your heart/mind calm down?'! A small change of one vowel, and a sea of difference in the meaning!! By the way, we discussed this composition here

smala
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by smala »

...that you will not be separated (piriyEn) from me even by mistake (oru kAlum) become a lie (poi)?...

In the two variations,
orukkAlum piriyEn enru shonna shollum pOccudO.....enru shonna shol pOccudO

does pOccudO break into poi + accudO ?

vs_manjunath
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by vs_manjunath »

rshankar- Thanks for the correction as well as the link in which meanings were discussed.
First, I need to listen to this song.
DKP's " yAro........." of Arunachala Kavi in Bhairavi, i have heard.

cacm
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by cacm »

MMI'S rendering of this song is fabulous! VKV

venkatakailasam
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by venkatakailasam »

please hear Ms. Ranjini Santhanagopalan rendering this song at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgGC4Mqa3s Suki Sivam - Rama nATakam - 7 - eppaDi manam tuNindadO - usEni - mArgazhi mahA utsavam 2008


venkatakailasam

vs_manjunath
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by vs_manjunath »

venkatakailasam-Thanks for the url. Indeed, quite a soulful husEni rendered by the artist.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks venkatakailasam for the link. Nicely sung by Sriranjani. ( we could have lived without suki sivam's silly explanation of the psychological background..., not that I do not know such females but generalizing the heck out of all females and more so to sItA in the context of this song is quite out of place. May be he is trying to be funny but it did not come through well )

venkatakailasam
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by venkatakailasam »

vasanthakokilam wrote:. ( we could have lived without suki sivam's silly explanation of the psychological background..., not that I do not know such females but generalizing the heck out of all females and more so to sItA in the context of this song is quite out of place. May be he is trying to be funny but it did not come through well )
Had I posted the link at You tube, I would have edited and kept only SRS's song

venkatakailasam

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

Arunachala Kavi Rayar's 'En paLLi kondIr ayyA' by Ms K.V. Janaki in the 1946 Tamil movie 'Vidyapati':-

http://www.mediafire.com/?hp3555n68i33wa5

vs_manjunath
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by vs_manjunath »

The whole song is normally sung in Mohanam is it not ? In this movie , this song is sung as a rAga mAlika.Nice presentation indeed.

rshankar
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by rshankar »

Manjunath it is usually sung as a dvi-rAgamAlika - mOhanam and kApi....I have never heard the final caraNam sung.

vs_manjunath
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by vs_manjunath »

Thank You Very Much ! :lol: An excellent translation !!!

venkatakailasam
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by venkatakailasam »

Neyveli Shri Santhanagopalan has rendered it at MMU of Jaya TV.But only the first charanam. NCV had rendered it fully -only a commercial version is available.Sudha ragunathan fans have also provided = a rendering by her.

Here is NSG. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edbT39mQVRE

venkatakailasam

venkatakailasam
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by venkatakailasam »

Quote: eppadi manam thanindhadho sAmi" of Arunachala Kavi Rayar"

Sri Ranjini singing the song at :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgGC4Mqa3s

venkatakailasam

Gladfan
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by Gladfan »

Is there a complete comprehensive list of all of Arunachala Kavi's compositions? If so, could someone please send it or kindly provide the link?

venkatakailasam
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by venkatakailasam »

Concert 237-Arunachala Kavi Compositions-Smt. S Soumya
Listen at:
http://myblogkumara.blogspot.in/2014/06 ... -viii.html

Concert details:
01-parabrahma_svarUpamE-gauLipantu
02-rAmanaik-kaNNAra-mOhanam
03-ingE_irum_kANum-kalyANi-aruNAcala_kavi
04-anda_rAma_saundaryam-kEdAragauLa
05-yArenreNNAmalE-shankarAbharaNam-aruNAcala_kavi
06-rAmanukku_mannan_mudi-Anandabhairavi-aruNAcala_kavi
07-shrI_rAmacandranukku-asAvEri-aruNAcala_kavi
08-eppaDi_manam_tuNindadO-husEni

RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

Shyamaa Saastry, Thyagaraja Swami and Muthuswami Dikshitar, created the lyrics and set the songs to tunes , themselves. And they also sang them . Thus, they are truly composers.
But, Arunaavchala Kavi , created the lyrics only. Even in his own days, the lyrics for the songs, which were part of the opera, were set to tunes by two iyers (
Venkataramayyar and Kothandaramayyar, two musicians of the neighbouring village of Sattanathapuram approached him with a request to compose the Ramayana as an opera.
(V.Sriram ). Later, some (all?) of the songs were re-tuned by Ariyakkudi Ramanuja Iengar.
Which is the authentic version? Did Arunachalak kavi set the lyrics to tune himself? If not, is it right to term him as a vak-geya-kar'? The same MAY apply to Purandaradasa also but he was a known singing-saint-wanderer. So, atleast some of his songs might be in the original tunes set by him and taken to the people by oral tradition by his followers. How much do the tunes given by Lathangi, conform to the tunes of Purandaradasa himself? In music forum, should we give priority of recognition to the lyrics creator or 'tuner' and singer to qualify as a composer?

ajaysimha
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by ajaysimha »

hello @RSR,

when it comes to the rama nataka krithis,
>kavi-rayar has composed it in keertana format, which was tuned by the 2 vidwans (or some also refer to as his shishyas) and its recital (arangetram) happened at srirangam.
>if we see the ragas from the old text, it been set in older and traditional ragas only.
>like anandabhairavi, saveri, purvi, athana and etc.
>and many songs have the ragas repeated.

and when we look at tuning these songs,
>when we look at ariyakudi ramanuja iyyengar's contibutions, he gave a blueprint to concert structure, tuned thiruppavai pasurams and rama nataka krithis based on bhavam and started popularizing them in his concerts.
>also harikatha bhagavathars have tuned a section of songs for their performances, based on their manodharma and the mood of the song.
>their are chances where artists might have tuned these songs for thukkada sections.
>songs also can be tuned in newer ragas/ hindustani ragas but still is melodious.

so i think we can have liberty to sing these songs in suitable ragas without spoiling the beauty of the lyrics.
Last edited by ajaysimha on 30 Sep 2019, 14:46, edited 1 time in total.

ajaysimha
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by ajaysimha »

this also happened in case of re-tuning annamayya's and dasar's songs

Pasupathy
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by Pasupathy »

ajaysimha wrote: 30 Sep 2019, 14:33
when it comes to the rama nataka krithis,
>kavi-rayar has composed it in keertana format, which was tuned by the 2 vidwans (or some also refer to as his shishyas)


Yes, the vidwans were learning Tamil from Kavirayar and it is quite possible many songs were composed in an interactive mode with the vidwans asking for some changes acc to musical needs and the kavirayar modifying the words accordingly.

RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

@ajaysimha
Music is not about Lyrics. It is about tunes. and singing or playing in instruments. How else can we explain the phenomenon of vidwans and rasikas in Tamilnadu, being ardent devotees of composers like Purandaradasa ( Kannada), Shyama Sastri and Thyagaraja Swami, Badrachalam Ramadasa ( Telugu), Muthuswami Dikshitar (Sanskrit) and almost all the great musicians of Tamilnadu being captivated by the greats of Hindusthani music, for over many centuries- without knowing much of those languages and the literary intricacies?
How to combine musical excellence, literary brilliance and ennobling theme, ? How many composers, have managed it? These criteria apply to tamil kritis also. Take away the music and piety, and just read them as poems? Will they be , as much, interesting as they are now? Can we not appreciate and enjoy good music without understanding the words? Perhaps, that is real appreciation ,not colored by language and sentiment. A ragam has its own 'bhaavam.
Mere lyricists are not composers.

MaheshS
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by MaheshS »

ajaysimha wrote: 30 Sep 2019, 14:33 when it comes to the rama nataka krithis,
>kavi-rayar has composed it in keertana format, which was tuned by the 2 vidwans (or some also refer to as his shishyas) and its recital (arangetram) happened at srirangam.
Not all of his Ramanayanam is in kirtana format. There a lot of viruthams / venba type compositions to prefix the kirtanas as well. These were also set to music by the brothers. I am onsite at the moment so do not have the book to hand, once home I will put a few of them here, as beautiful!

rshankar
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by rshankar »

MaheshS wrote: 30 Sep 2019, 22:53Not all of his Ramanayanam is in kirtana format. There a lot of viruthams / venba type compositions to prefix the kirtanas as well.
The rAmanATakam also has couplets (verses with 2 lines) called d(v)ipadai or tipadai as well. SUrpanakhA's lascivious and rapturous reaction when she first catches sight of rAma is described in a series of tipadais that start with "dEvanO? ivan manidan tAnO?"

ajaysimha
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by ajaysimha »

thanks all for the inputs,

yes,
genre of rama natakam is: geya-natakam(musical-drama) and
style of it is: mostly like champu kavyam(like gadya and padya)

SrinathK
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by SrinathK »

Is the complete rama nATakam available anywhere?

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

SrinathK wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 08:34 Is the complete rama nATakam available anywhere?
Yes !
Please check this -
http://www.tamilvu.org/ta/library-l5J51 ... ind-145276

RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

Pratyaksham Bala wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 12:23
SrinathK wrote: 02 Oct 2019, 08:34 Is the complete rama nATakam available anywhere?
Yes !
Please check this -
http://www.tamilvu.org/ta/library-l5J51 ... ind-145276
Wonderful help.
Is it downloadable? I will try.

SrinathK
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by SrinathK »

Thanks for that one. But the bigger question, is a recording out there?

rshankar
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by rshankar »

SrinathK wrote: 03 Oct 2019, 21:09 Thanks for that one. But the bigger question, is a recording out there?
Not sure about the whole rAmanATakam, but Smt. Nityashree had an album with some kRtis and tipadais from the bAlakANDam, but there was no follow-up.
Here is a presentation by Smt. Sowmya et al.

RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

https://youtu.be/JZTGJlOrAn8 ( by Sowmya , Nisha &)
The same link as provided in previous post. (marred by advertisements).
It will help if the songs actually sung are mentioned as a list with the ragams. Are they following the ragams as suggested by Ariyakkudi?
Has Ariyakkudi Ramanuja Iengar himself , rendered a few of these songs? Can we have links? Raju Asokan pl.

ajaysimha
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by ajaysimha »

there is one commercial recording by T N Seshagopalan.
this album is very helpful to understand this subject.
(specialty of this album is that, the popular song - yaro ivar yaro is sung in saveri as per authentic tune)

https://youtu.be/T42_MWbEOjA

and there is one more album by bombay sisters,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarSeTNppmg

also there is a DD podhigai recording on youtube by bhairavi and malavi on same theme.

i also have heard K V Narayanaswamy singing the ramanatakam songs as tuned by ARI, which is available on youtube.


RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

@36
The version as sung by Smt.MS and Smt.DKP is more decent. leaving out the explicit reference .
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... ivar-yaaro
see how wonderfully, the artists have captured the scene.

When we describe the beauty of a lady, our tradition is to speak of her face, eyes, teeth, smile and gait.
( one stanza , left out, can be understood as the reaction of ladies on seeing the prince)
A.Kavi was 'banal' in language. Unforgivable nearly 500 years after Kamban!

Actually, Kamban is nearer to literary tamizh of twentieth century ( T.K.CHIDAMABARANATHA MUDALIYAR's articles) . while the tamil of A.Kavi is too common -place. and terribly colloquial.
We must learn to reject bad things from so-called tradition and textual integrity.

parivadini
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by parivadini »

Please see the essay from 1940s that talks about the song the record that you are raving about: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k2feriWJnLE/ ... 0/ms_1.jpg from Shri. Pasupati's blog.

RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

@38
Old hat.
I have already read it before posting my comment.
Does Kalki say that she sang the obnoxious stanza?

parivadini
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by parivadini »

Did I say that she did or she should have? My only point is the popular perception of the context is wrong.

RSR
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by RSR »

parivadini wrote: 13 Dec 2019, 07:34 Did I say that she did or she should have? My only point is the popular perception of the context is wrong.
Agreed. .. However, well-bred gents do think of and address girls and ladies -not in 'orumai-feminine ' but in respectful- general That is how Rama thinks of Sita and wonders 'yaro ivaryaro'.
Thankfully, AruNakavi did not write 'yaaro ivaL yaro'.
(யாரோ இவள் யாரோ )
-----------------------------------------------------
யாரோ இவர் யாரோ
என்ன பேரோ
அறியேனே

காருலாவும் சீருலாவும் மிதிலையில்
கன்னிமாடம் தனில்
முன்னே நின்றவர் யாரோ

சந்திரபிம்ப முக
மலராலே என்னை
தானே பார்க்கின்றார்
ஒரு காலே

அந்தநாளில் ..........
.........
சொந்தம் போல உருகிறார்
இந்த நாளில் சேவை தருகிறார்
யாரோ இவர் யாரோ
Just imagine that it is SITA 's thinking along these lines, about RAMA.
( Of course as sung by Smt.MS and Smt.DKP.)
It would fit perfectly.
--------------------------------------------------------
The wonder must have been mutual.
For cotrast, here is a very well-known passage from Kamba RaamaayaNam.
-----------------
தோள்கண்டார் தோளே கண்டார் (ThoaL kaNdaar ThoaLe KaNdar)
தொடுகழல் கமலம் அன்னத் (Thodu kazhal kamalam anna)
தாள்கண்டார் தாளே கண்டார் (ThaaL kaNdaAr ThaLae KaNdar)
தடக்கை கண்டாரும் அஃதே (Thadakkai kaNdarum AHthe)

வாள்கொண்ட கண்ணார் யாரே (VaaL koNda kaNNaar yare)
வடிவினை முடியக் கண்டார்
(Vadivinai mudiyak KaNdaAr?)
ஊழ்கொண்ட சமயத்து அன்னான் (Oozh koNda samayathu annaAn)
உருவுகண்டாரை ஒத்தார். (Uruvu KaNdaraI Othhaar)
------------------------------
"
People are so enamored by Rama's looks that those who are seeing Rama's shoulders are unable to take their eyes off and cant see any thing else and are saying "Look at his shoulders, How beautiful they are?".

Same way ladies who saw Rama's feet, unable to take their eyes off the feet, have been saying that "Look how beautiful the feet are?" (Its more apt to say ladies instead of people!)


Kambar asks which of those "knife-sharp eyed" ladies have been able to see the entire Rama? But they are fighting amongst themselves that shoulders are most beautiful, feet are the most beautiful etc. But people who have seen the shoulders have not seen the feet and vice versa.

The comparison from Kambar actually comes in the last line where he says these ladies who fight that Rama's shoulders, feet are beautiful have not seen him in entirety but only a part of him.
Who has seen the Lord in his entirety?
'jagothoddharaNa' line.

ajaysimha
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by ajaysimha »

The actual text says rama nataka keertanai-gal.

But today they popularlised as rama nataka Krithis.

Jusy a question, are theses composition styled in keerthanai or Krithi format?

And is there any book on arunachala kavirayar or rama natakam in English?

Regards,
Ajay Simha

kmrasika
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by kmrasika »

@ajaysimha
The actual text says rama nataka keertanai-gal.
But today they popularlised as rama nataka Krithis.
They are
Jusy a question, are theses composition styled in keerthanai or Krithi format?
The songs are essentially composed in the kīrtana format, of course when you consider
anda rāma saundaryam, you're tempted to veer toward kr̥ti but it has many caraṇa-s. In some obscure book (whose title does not come to mind), some songs from this work were presented under a section entitled," rāmāyaṇa ōraḍi kīrtanai."
Also bear in mind the work comes under the "nāṭaka" category, hence other poetical forms like kāppu, veṇpa, viruttam, kaṇṇikaikaḷ, so on are also interspersed in between, making them part-and-parcel of the work, all in aims to convey the story.
And is there any book on arunachala kavirayar or rama natakam in English?
Don't think so. But Sri Lakshman Sir has painstakingly transliterated the lyrics in his publication of lyrics.

An interesting note, the rāmanāṭakam became an inspiration for kavi vēṅkaṭa sūri, a senior disciple of vālājapēṭṭai vēṅkaṭaramaṇa bhāgavatar, to compose his opera entitled "saṅgīta rāmāyaṇa" in the saurāṣṭra language.

rshankar
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by rshankar »

The rAmanATakam also has couplets - dvipadi or tipadai, as well, right?

kmrasika
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by kmrasika »

@rshankar
rshankar wrote: 23 Jul 2020, 20:23 The rAmanATakam also has couplets - dvipadi or tipadai, as well, right?
AFAIK:
The ones mentioned are used in Tamil works like gōpālakr̥ṣṇa bhārati's nandanār caritram, nīlakaṇṭha śivan's lalitāmahānmiyam, and in the many kuṟavañji nāṭaka-s.

Forms like dvivapada, gadyaṁ, cūrṇikā, dhavaḷa prabandham, mangaḷācaraṇam, ślōka, bhramara gītam, etc. feature prominently in Telugu works like in tyāgarāja's prahlāda bhakti vijayam and naukācaritram, nārāyaṇa tīrtha's kr̥ṣṇa lilā tarangiṇī and pārijāta pariṇayamu, cengalvarāya śāstri's sundareśa vilāsamu, śahāji majārājā's gauri śankara pallaki sēvā prabandham, etc.

kmrasika
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by kmrasika »

The rAmanATakam also has couplets - dvipadi or tipadai, as well, right?

Am not an expert on poetical forms, but you may be correct as the composition meters are apparent in the viruttams, etc.

The dvivapada form could be similar to the composition called "caupāyi" employed by gōsvāmi tuḷasidāsa in his many works.

Pratyaksham Bala
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by Pratyaksham Bala »

.
இராம நாடகக் கீர்த்தனைகள்

தோடயம் (Invocation),
கட்டியம் (வசனம்),
கீர்த்தனைகள், திபதைகள், விருத்தங்கள், வெண்பாக்கள்,
ஆகியவை கொண்ட நூல் :-

http://www.tamilvu.org/ta/library-l5J51 ... ind-145276

rshankar
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Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by rshankar »

caupAyi (चौपायी) AFAIK has 4 lines...

ajaysimha
Posts: 831
Joined: 19 Apr 2018, 18:16

Re: Arunachala Kavi

Post by ajaysimha »

thanks for all the info., kmrasika, bala and shankar.

when did these compositions gain popularity?

i think the revolution happened when Iyengar started tuning theses compositions and started popularized them in his concerts along with it's publication in sudesamittiran magazine.
(If ARI hadn't tuned these songs, then today would we have heard them becoming so popular?)

and talking about discography, there were 78rpm recordings of rama nataka keertanais sung by musicians like dhanakodi sisters, Coimbatore Thayi and D K Pattammal.

coming to movies there were DKP's ennakkun irupadam (rama rajyam) and NCV's en palli kondirayya (vidhyapathi) (both in ragamailka - suiting to trend of those good old days)

please do share some info on this...

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