Perspective on amateurs accompanying the professionals

[rigveda]

>Cleveland or other aradhanas do not engage him and speaks volumes about the corruption

There you go again, bashing Cleveland!

When I said "corruption" it is not in the Indian sense (or American for that matter), where you accept a bribe for a service. The organizations including Cleveland are no doubt clean to the hilt and there is no mess at all. The corruption refers to a "corrupt policy" which again applies to most organizations, not just Cleveland. There is no bashing of any organization here, just an observation. Apologies for any misconception.

[vasanthakokilam]

Use the right word then.... And you are not obsessed with Cleveland? You ask a question about Rohan, Harimau responds with a straight answer and you use that to drag Cleveland and call them corrupt.

[mahavishnu]

Use the right word then.... And you are not obsessed with Cleveland? You ask a question about Rohan, Harimau responds with a straight answer and you use that to drag Cleveland and call them corrupt.

Point well taken, VK.
Except, with Harimau we don't know how much sarcasm went into the "straight" answer.

[sureshvv]

but at least it is a clean argument!

Don't expect that of rigveda... He is a bottom feeder located in the armpit of the world!

[Nick H]

can't resist a at the way you put that.

[rigveda]

I checked out the web site of this mridangist. Even if 50% of what the website says has happened, I need some answers. He seems to be doing exactly what Cleveland has in its mission. Yet it looks like he is being side lined. Cleveland started giving out an award last year for someone in NA who has done a lot to promote CM in NA. They chose a vocalist last year who has nothing to show. She doesn't even feature this year. Apparently she got a Fulbright scholarship to go to India. She used her CM talents to get the fellowship and returned back to pursue "medicine"! This year they have chosen some one who is slated to be based in "Chennai". So what is going on?
Let us not close our eyes like the pro verbial cat. There are lot of good things that I salute Cleveland for. But to say that they are the epitome of an organization is a caricature.
When I did my graduate studies in the US, I had the opportunity to work with a world class person. He said something that still rings in my ears
"There are awards that make you famous and there are awards that become famous because you got it". Cleveland or any organization should create awards that will make the awardee famous having received it.
How many first and second prize winners of Cleveland have received concert opportunities, either in the US or India, because of the award. Again a personal experience. I attended a concert by Prof TNK in NJ and the first prize concert winner of Cleveland came to the concert with the Tambura she had won and told TNK about it. He asked her to sit on the stage and provide the tambura. After the first song he said"please go and sit in the first row and try to put thalam". Obviously neither the awardee nor the awarding organization became famous by this.
I am not against any organization, Cleveland the least, but given the publicity they receive, they should also expect more scrutiny. They have a long way to go before appearing credible. For that the organization should not be a one man show.

[rigveda]

Sangeetharatnakara is the biggest award given by Cleveland and many musicians of fame have received it. I challenge anyone to tell me how many of these awardees quote that award in their honorofic? I am sure less than 1%. They all quote Sangeetha Kalanidhi (if they have got it) or the Padma Awards(which is illegal to quote, the Home Minsitry clealry says it is not an award and if some one uses it in the visiting card etc, it can be taken away). What does this show? These artists think that the award became famous because they got it and not the other way around. Let us open our eyes.

[rigveda]

I just checked the Cleveland we bsite. This time they have a grand prize for the concert winners. I salute them for this gesture and it is a great incentive for the participants. At the same time I have a word of caution. Last year all the seven participants were declared winners in the concert competition. Where is the competition then? I was working on a probability that all the judges will find all the seven participants worthy of first prize. If there was any quantitaive measure, the probability worked out as good as finding life in another planet! Hence, since this time they have announced an attractive first prize, make sure the best candidate gets it. If no one is upto the standard, so be it. Don't select any one. And as I have been stressing bring a sense of integrity to the contest. Don't allow the teachers of the contestants to sit a judges and don't ask the contestants to mention their teacher's name.
If ten stduents are delared winners of concert competition this time, the organizers will have to come up with 10000$

[lalithasankar]

@Harimau,

In fact he got the Yuva Gala Parathi award. The award was announced a year earlier than he could receive it as at that time he was below the minimum age for the award.

What's the pun behind Yuva Gala Parathi? (if not Yuva Kala Bharathi)

[cacm]

I just checked the Cleveland we bsite. This time they have a grand prize for the concert winners. I salute them for this gesture and it is a great incentive for the participants. At the same time I have a word of caution. Last year all the seven participants were declared winners in the concert competition. Where is the competition then? I was working on a probability that all the judges will find all the seven participants worthy of first prize. If there was any quantitaive measure, the probability worked out as good as finding life in another planet! Hence, since this time they have announced an attractive first prize, make sure the best candidate gets it. If no one is upto the standard, so be it. Don't select any one. And as I have been stressing bring a sense of integrity to the contest. Don't allow the teachers of the contestants to sit a judges and don't ask the contestants to mention their teacher's name.
If ten stduents are delared winners of concert competition this time, the organizers will have to come up with 10000$

We are very thankful to Rigveda for his psuedo probability speculations, Life on another planet, his abilty to get inside the brain of the organisers without any fancy stuff like neurons etc as well as his concerns about their ability to cope and his brilliant lesson on elementary school level arithmetic Calculation that ten times something is just obtained by adding ANOTHER ZERO to the original number. MOST ENLIGHTENING post!.......VKV

[harimau]

@Harimau,
[In fact he got the Yuva Gala Parathi award. The award was announced a year earlier than he could receive it as at that time he was below the minimum age for the award]
What's the pun behind Yuva Gala Parathi? (if not Yuva Kala Bharathi)

As is typical, whenever possible, Harimau's posts have several layers.

The first layer is when Yuva Kala Bharathi is deliberately mistyped as Yuva Gala Paarathi. This could be a reference to the indiscriminate use of 'g' as opposed to 'k' to transcribe words of Indian languages containing 'k' and the average Tamilian's inability to tell the difference between 'p' and 'b'.

The second layer is a reference to an incident in Mahakavi Subramania Bharathi's life. Jealous that at a young age the lad Subramanian had received the title of 'Bharathi', his schoolteacher Kanthimathinathan asked him to compose a poem ending with the words "Bharathi chinnap payal' ("Bharathi is an inconsequential little chap"). Bharathiyar promptly composed the poem which ended "Kanthimathinathanaip paar, athi chinnap payal" ("Look at Kanthimathinathan, an extremely small-minded fellow"); paar-athi becoming paarathi upon conjunction.

One could consider the third possibility that Yuva Gala Paarathi (YGP) is a subtle homage to the late Sri Y. G. Parthasarathy, the patriarch of the family that runs Bharath Kalachar, the organization that awards the Yuva Kala Bharathi title.

Thanks for asking. As they say in the US, there is no such thing as a dumb question. You just proved it.

[harimau]

We are very thankful to Rigveda for his psuedo probability speculations, Life on another planet, his abilty to get inside the brain of the organisers without any fancy stuff like neurons etc as well as his concerns about their ability to cope and his brilliant lesson on elementary school level arithmetic Calculation that ten times something is just obtained by adding ANOTHER ZERO to the original number. MOST ENLIGHTENING post!.......VKV

Neurons or neutrons?

[cacm]

Neutrons are no longer Fashionble?! VKV

[Nick H]

VKV, is fashion a newly discovered subatomic particle?

What happens when it changes? Does that impact the fabric of existence?

[mahavishnu]

VKV, is fashion a newly discovered subatomic particle?

Very profound.
The gauge fashyon.

Nick you have excelled yourself. I had no idea you had this geek streak in you.

[Nick H]

I have a considerable geek streak. I used to a Unix systems manager, complete with beard and sandals (although I had those before I met up with computers).

But, sadly... physics and maths... failed. Both in exams and understanding.

[cacm]

VKV, is fashion a newly discovered subatomic particle?

What happens when it changes? Does that impact the fabric of existence?

Dear Nick,
It might affect the fabric but existence is too profound a topic! At least in Mathematics it is tough thing to prove!....VKV

[Muthu Kumaran]

Dear reethigowla48,

Kudos to your bravery in raising the issues facing the Atlanta Carnatic music community!!
I can't agree with you more on the need for new blood and innovation. I have posted my thoughts on this subject in another discussion thread since this is relevant only for Atlanta Rasikas. Others are welcome to check it out if you are wondering what's happening in Atlanta ...

Atlanta - Bringing Carnatic Music back into life ...
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15893

[Muthu Kumaran]

rethigowla48,

Using public organizations and ticketed events for promoting a single person is a gross misuse of power by any stretch of imagination. We all understand the problem and I am slightly encouraged by the responses we are getting on this forum.

However, the question of how to objectively measure a person's skill, expertise and fit still remains largely unanswered. Virtually in all other disciplines of science and arts, there are governing bodies and institutes that are universally acknowledged as the authority to measure and certify a person's level of proficiency. 'PE' license for engineers, 'belt' system for karate, 'CPA/CMA' certification for accountants and 'PMP' certification for project managers come to mind. In all these instances, there are set standards of expectation for a person to be placed at a skill level and the governing bodies (which are mostly privately run) oversee and administer these certifications.

In India, A-I-R provides the fundamental system of classifying musicians into 4 grades: B, B-Hi, A and A-Top. In the absence of such a universally accepted system for musicians outside India, we are left with no choice but to let the organizations and people in power positions determine the skill level of individuals (almost always subjectively).

One option would be to figure out f A-I-R can certify musicians outside India. If this is possible, then we’ll have a system of apples-to-apples comparison and will be in a much better position to match visiting artistes with local talent of the same proficiency level.

Any thoughts?

[Nick H]

There are critics, but their usefulness is debatable (as we know: it is regularly debated!). Otherwise, in the arts, the audience is the final judge.