Single Transliteration Scheme for all CM Languages - Part 2

Languages used in Carnatic Music & Literature

#176  Postby vgvindan » 08 Jun 2007 08:24

kutty,
The SW has been developed by me in VB. Please refer to http://www.rasikas.org/viewtopic.php?pid=49602#p49602 (#173)
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#177  Postby kutty » 14 Jun 2007 13:18

Mahakavi

Kutty:
You have to bear with me for transforming your scheme into this one.
OK, that really took some labor!

Very good effort Mahakavi. You are welcome to transform mine into the standard one, as I find mine more convenient to express the sound we use in colloquial form of Thamizh and Sanskrit which need not be adhered to in the interest of maority. I do realise the transformation to Thamizh would be a bit laborious. If you desire, hereafter I will render the song in Thamizh script to reduce your labour in addition to English if the members/mods do not object.
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#178  Postby mahakavi » 14 Jun 2007 19:30

kutty:
Please do so, if you don't mind. I really had to do line by line keeping two or more URLs open and switching between them. While arunk's scheme is a boon to do the transformation, it is laborious since long songs are difficult to do line by line. Perhaps you have a better software. I will post the meanings after you transcribe them into Thamizh script. As for the Thamizh script it will make more sense to relate to the meaning which I will post after you do the Thamizh versions of the other two songs. Incidentally one of our forum members (a Keralite) is very much interested in getting the meanings of these songs and that was the primary reason I requested the lyrics.

arunk:
Is there a way to copy/paste the transliterated Roman script of a whole song into your scheme and get the transformation at one stroke?
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#179  Postby arunk » 14 Jun 2007 19:38

mahakavi,

actually i was trying this yesterday - although ran into some anomalies which i couldnt figure out.

What i did (and what you could do) is follows:
1. copy and paste into the transl. editor
2. click on the "fix" button (the hammer and tools button).
3. It brings up a dialog where you can select one or more "transformations" to apply. You could ask e.g. to convert aa to A, ee to I etc, you could also convert "th" to t etc.
4. Click ok and this should fix most of the text to conform to the scheme and thus could make your job easier.
5. Make any other corrections
6. Click on translate button.

However, the anamoly I ran into was after transformation, when I translated, the text was quite off. For example, "muruga" came up as "m" (mei) + u (uyir)!!! I suspect the copy and paste form the forum page into transl. editor brought with some hidden formatting which confused the translator that instead of seeing "muruga" as one word it perhaps saw it as several words - "m", "u", "r" , "u" etc. This is just my theory. If this is indeed the cause, one way to avoid would be to copy and paste into notepad (i.e. an editor without formatting stuff) and then copy and paste into the transl editor as step 1 above.

Arun
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#180  Postby arunk » 14 Jun 2007 19:46

note that ee => I doesnt really work - must be a bug.

Also I see usage of e' for E. I can add one but this is not really part of any other convention and so I dont want.

Perhaps a search and replace feature may be useful here.

Arun
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#181  Postby rveeraraghavan » 14 Jun 2007 19:52

mahakavi, what did you post above ( at 00:27 ) looks like a whole lot of gibberish to me! Does it require something to be installed on the machine? I am running linux, and firefox
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#182  Postby mahakavi » 14 Jun 2007 19:57

rveeraraghavan:
I wish I could tell you in one line what to do.
Perhaps arunk or thanjavur might help. It has something to do under "View" and selecting the encoding to "unicode" or "western" or something like that. Wait for one of them to respond. I can see clear Thamizh script on my conputer.
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#183  Postby arunk » 14 Jun 2007 20:02

rveeraraghavan - you need to enable Indic script support. Pl. check the following link for details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... ic_scripts

Arun
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#184  Postby arunk » 14 Jun 2007 20:23

mahakavi - i will be updating the editor in the next few minutes. After that it will include a search/replace (so you can do e' to E, o' to O in above), another rule to translate some capital letters which dont have representations (e.g. V => v, G => g), and also a bug fix for ee => I.

Arun
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#185  Postby arunk » 14 Jun 2007 20:30

done. The search/replace button is the last button to the left on the second row of buttons
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#186  Postby arunk » 14 Jun 2007 20:33

FYI: A few minutes ago I posted an update to the Carnatic Music Transliterator: http://arunk.freepgs.com/cmtranslit

This update has the following:

1. A search/replace feature (the A->B button on the second row - the rightmost button)
2. Fix a bug where ee => I translation (accessible via the wrench/hammer button)
3. Added a rule for converting certain capital letters which have representation only in lower case forms (again, accessible via the wrench/hammer button)

Arun
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#187  Postby kutty » 14 Jun 2007 22:39

Mahakavi:

I will send you the Thamizh versions of all the three tomorrow morning. I use a very good transliterating Thamizh SW (which of course does not follow the international standard) named "Azhagi" which you can try from www.azhagi.com Really it is a nice one to transliterate from English to Thamizh. If you have not tried please do so.
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#188  Postby palpaandi » 21 Jun 2007 15:58

hi!!!

as you guys are discussing about the tamil tools for posting
i would like to contribute with my findings so that you ppl will find it useful ,

i recently came across one blog and it directed it to this site, http://quillpad.in/tamil
it will peacefully help in creating long tamil blogs in no time if you can talk in tamil .
so you can write in tamil without knowing tamil script :)
isnt the funda amusing :) :) :)

see through it and have fun
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#189  Postby mahakavi » 21 Jun 2007 19:29

That is neat, palpaandi!
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#190  Postby arunk » 21 Jun 2007 19:34

indeed!
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#191  Postby arunk » 21 Jun 2007 19:36

However, for our purposes (i.e. as in this thread), i think it is better if the representation is easily translatable to other languages as well. One representation - conveys the phonetics of the words, and a way to transcribe it in all the cm languages.

Although that is perhaps a utopian view, as I find most uses being limited to getting it transcribed to only one language :)

Arun
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#192  Postby arunk » 28 Jun 2007 08:42

Hi folks,

A couple of you had asked me about this and I am glad it turned out to be reasonably easy to implement.

I have updated the cm transliteration editor at http://arunk.freepgs.com/cmtranslit with a new feature that allows you to paste already created tamil/kannada/telugu/sanskrit script. Once you hit the Translate button, this will convert it into the transliteration scheme (results under English tab) as well as to other languages.

You can use this as a convenient "quick start" or "starting point" to get something info the unified scheme - particularly if you already have text in an Indic language or you find it convenient to create it elsewhere. Once you do that you can copy the results under the English tab, modify it as necessary and do further tweaking.

A few points to note:

1. The feature is experimental and so there may be bugs
2. The feature is not 100% reliable. From tamizh script it is not possible to unambuously figure out ka vs ga, pa vs ba etc. So always check the English results and modify it as necessary. The same thing applies for anuswara. While kannada and telugu always use anuswara in some contexts (and hence no ambiguity), Sanskrit doesnt. So conversion of anuswaras using this feature may end being less than satisfactory.

Pl. let me know of bugs and any improvements.

Thanks
Arun
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#193  Postby Suji Ram » 28 Jun 2007 09:48

That's cool,
Now I can say I can read thamizh in English.
Thanks.
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#194  Postby arunk » 28 Jun 2007 21:19

thanks suji. if only the notation "editor" was as easy as this one :)

Actually that one has been "sort of close to initial delivery" for a while. The trouble is it requires a lot of documention and that is not always fun to do :)

Arun
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#195  Postby Suji Ram » 28 Jun 2007 22:18

arunk wrote:thanks suji. if only the notation "editor" was as easy as this one :)

Actually that one has been "sort of close to initial delivery" for a while. The trouble is it requires a lot of documention and that is not always fun to do :)

Arun

I was going to enquire about the notation editor..looks like I reminded you indirectly... :P
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#196  Postby vgvindan » 31 Aug 2007 22:39

Those who know telugu script may please comment whether the implementation 'O' in Unicode is correct or not -

kO,khO,gO, ghO - కో ఖో గో ఘో
cO, chO, jO, jhO - చో ఛో జో ఝో
TO, ThO, DO, DhO - టో ఠో డో ఢో
tO, thO, dO, dhO - తో థో దో ధో
pO, phO, bO, bhO - పో ఫో బో భో
mO, yO, rO, lO, vO, LO - మో యో రో లో వో ళో
sO, SO, shO, hO - సో శో షో హో

It may be seen that some letters have been implemented differently. Can someone knowing Telugu language comment whether the highlighted letters are correct?
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#197  Postby arunk » 01 Sep 2007 06:31

vgv,

this would be font dependent. So what I see may not be the same as what you see - since depending on what fonts are installed, which browser (and what the browser selects for telugu - which can be automatic or explicit) we would see different things.

If you are observing a problem, change to a different font (downloading it if necessary) and see if you see things differently. That will let you know if the font you chose has a problem.

Arun
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#198  Postby vgvindan » 11 Jan 2008 00:13

Can someone please explain how 'SArnga' (in SArnga dhara) will be written in Telugu and Kannada?
In Sanskrit it is written as शार्ङ्ग -
In view of the virama after 'r' - it is not possible to codify Anusvara (sunna) in place of G-n. Can it be written as శార్ఙ్గ - ಶಾರ್ಙ್ಗ - ie without Sunna?
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#199  Postby shishya » 11 Jan 2008 00:54

this is how it is written శార్ఙ
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#200  Postby vgvindan » 11 Jan 2008 09:57

shisya, You have given 'sArnga' without 'g'
శార్ఙ్గము

శాగ్ఙ్గి
This is how it is given in the Telugu Dictionary. Can you please again check.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadi ... able=brown
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