Evolution of the HM/CM 'jugalbandhi'!

Classical Music of North India

#1  Postby rshankar » 17 Nov 2006 19:48

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#2  Postby jayaram » 17 Nov 2006 20:10

Sorry, these jugalbandhis are just not my cup of tea...even less are the east-west fusion encounters.
Now, a KVN-Semmangudi or MS-Semmangudi recital - that's what I call seventh heaven!
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Last edited by jayaram on 17 Nov 2006 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
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#3  Postby coolkarni » 17 Nov 2006 20:47

jayaram
You must try to acquire an album of jugalbandis of Vinayak Torvi (hindusthani) and S Shankar (Carnatic) - someone in Bangalore can help you -Titled "Milan"..

It is the most innovative approach , that I have seen, in Jugalbandis.
Simply because both of them sing the same lines -That way one gets to know the difference between the two systems very very clearly.

Next to that , the album of ravikiran and gaurav mazumdar...
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#4  Postby jayaram » 17 Nov 2006 22:05

Thank you, Coolkarni, I will look for the album. In fact a friend of mine is leaving for Bangalore this week, so I will ask him.

By the way, any progress on the Manakkal front? I recd an email from Sriram yesterday and he hasn't mentioned about it.
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#5  Postby coolkarni » 18 Nov 2006 11:34

meeting in cyberspace is more easy , compared to meeting in real world.

I have been in touch with sriram , regularly though.
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#6  Postby coolkarni » 20 Nov 2006 18:46

Evolution of the CM-HM Jugalbandi..

I would have loved it,if that could have taken off from the "Thanam" (and of course ragam too before that) aspect of performing.
It is such a fertile ground for both the artists to find something in common and then go on to other experiments.
Have a look at what TNS and Ajoy Chakraborthy do here.
Simply mesmerising !
o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/a82p

In fact in a few spots , I cannot find out who is who !

Little wonder that it took this duo to produce this magical piece --one artist who is arguably the most innovative in CM and another HM artist who at the ripe old age of 60 decided to learn CM !!



This article overlooks the fact that Ravisankar-S Balchander gave major duets in Chennai in the early 70s and late 60s.Even AIR chennai broadcast a series of jugalbandis .But that is all hearsay .That class of music must be lying in forgotten spools in some attic in a house waiting to be pulled down to make way for a flat !
Even Bhatt and Gindes popularity at SGS sabha in the 60s could have something to do with their Dhrupad style of singing.

But alas , Jugalbandis today are more a show of flashy colours.Big names ,tackling a small range of ragas -yaman , malkauns and Sohini .
Duets that turn into duels , at the slightest provocation.
(in fact my Dad used to compare such concerts to a tennis game where two players get onto the lawns to play a doubles match and end up playing singles with each other !!-while standing on the same side of the net-no wonder most serious rasikas loathe them and a large % of the rest wait for the percussionists to add to the confusion .


It is a pity that Chennai sabhas have not given space to the likes of N Rajam who gave some splendid duets with TN Krishnan..

Common ground between CM and HM -----
The work is all ahead of the current generation.
If only they can cast away the baggage of the famous gavthis, yaman's and malkauns's and look into the dharmavathis , shudh Dhanyasis,Brindavana sarangs , Meghs-Madhmath Sarangs....
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#7  Postby rshankar » 20 Nov 2006 19:51

Thanks, Kji:
Maybe you can send in your opinion to the paper - maybe as a response in the 'letters to the Editor' section....
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#8  Postby jayaram » 20 Nov 2006 22:31

With apologies to Kipling: "North is North, and South is South, and never the twain shall meet"

HM and CM have parted ways long ago.
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#9  Postby ramakriya » 22 Nov 2006 05:44

coolkarni wrote:Evolution of the CM-HM Jugalbandi..

I would have loved it,if that could have taken off from the "Thanam" (and of course ragam too before that) aspect of performing.
It is such a fertile ground for both the artists to find something in common and then go on to other experiments.
Have a look at what TNS and Ajoy Chakraborthy do here.
Simply mesmerising !
o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/a82p

In fact in a few spots , I cannot find out who is who !

Little wonder that it took this duo to produce this magical piece --one artist who is arguably the most innovative in CM and another HM artist who at the ripe old age of 60 decided to learn CM !!
....

Coolkarni,

Whoever wrote that article has never listened to anything as magical as the one you have posted now!
Your remark about not being able to find who is who is right on the spot.

If only they can cast away the baggage of the famous gavthis, yaman's and malkauns's and look into the dharmavathis , shudh Dhanyasis,Brindavana sarangs , Meghs-Madhmath Sarangs....

Few other possibilities are vachaspati, latangi, simhendramadhyama, kIravAni , chArukEshi etc. I have heard a few of these combinations from Nagamani Srinath and Shyamala Bhave,.


-Ramakriya
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#10  Postby coolkarni » 22 Nov 2006 06:53

In fact the first ever jugalbandi I Heard was by MS Sheela-Susheela Ullal WAY BACK IN 78 at Davangere Choultry..

here is another gem from TNK with Bale Khan on the Sitar

o http://www.rogepost.com/dn/c8kz
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#11  Postby vijay » 27 Nov 2006 16:58

Kulkarniji- amazing - the TNS-Ajoy clip, every time I hear it - although I have to admit that TNS' in edged out in the alaapana department by Ajoy thanks to HM's more rigorous vocal training.

BTW, almost every die-hard HM fan I have met tends to berate Ajoy's music...can't help wondering why this is the case....

Vijay
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#12  Postby coolkarni » 27 Nov 2006 18:41

Ajoy's music may look simple and juicy (the nearest equivalent in CM I can think of , is Santhanam) , but he is a trend setter in his own right-like Santhanam.
Conservative fans dont acknowledge his Patiala tag but then they also do not account for the fact with so many cross winds blowing ,The Concept of Gharana itself is in danger of becoming extinct..

But to his credit he still looks an inspired man on stage.

How many star musicians start a Music school exclusively for Kids -and that too hundreds of them.How many of them have opted to learn Carnatic Music at the age of 60.

There is also the politics of some groups calling themselves ,the true heirs of Bade Ghulam Ali Khans Music.
Try getting hold of the albums of all his concerts in Pakistan-they have a different story to tell.

You will now see an artist who bemoans the fact that dadras and thumris are sung only in a few ragas though many have existed in ragas like malkauns darbari etc and sings them too.

and in contrast he even sings a full length khayal in bhairavi ...

All this from a man who was a refugee , selling mats ,from door to door , ... His is a remarkable story.
Did you hear the short track of his tracing the origins of Bhairavi from Iran , through the western world , right into India ?I had put this up earlier here.

There is no better proof that he is a Thinking Musician.
No matter what those die hard fans say...
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#13  Postby vijay » 28 Nov 2006 10:37

From the little I have heard Ajoy does come across as a rebel - in last year's performance at Bharath Sangeetotsav (featuring a very nice Ramkali) he said something to the effect that the time theory of ragas is devoid of any logical foundation...his layakari is also probably a result of CM training. It is said that he wants to give a full-fledged CM concert. I am eagerly waiting for the day!

So if I understand this correctly, his music is considered impure becuase it is not true to his moorings in the Patiala Gharana...isn't that also true of Rashid Khan (whose music is considered chaste) who claims to be influenced more by Bhimsen than his own Rampur school?

Anyway, I think this discussion more rightly belongs to the HM forum...my apologies!

Vijay
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#14  Postby meena » 28 Nov 2006 11:07

vijay

shall move this thread to HM sec. Pl. continue discussing :)
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#15  Postby coolkarni » 28 Nov 2006 12:16

Ok Meena. I am polishing up the reply a bit more.
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#16  Postby coolkarni » 28 Nov 2006 19:14

Here is a Bhairavi piece by Ajoy Chakraborthy.

There were hardly 30 members in the audience by the time Ajoy took the consent of the harmonium artist and started playing it himself.

Sitting in my dimly lit corner , I was transported and carried through many early experiences.

If it was my younger days in the WM Class in an American Convent In Jamshedpur one moment , It was the Plaintive calls of the Mullah at the Mosque in my native place , the next .
( I would have spent all night watching some of greatest Carrom stars of the day battle it out for high stakes , in a smokefilled room in the complex of the mosque) and dozed off in a corner only to be woken up by the Mullahs call at 5 AM)

This is a great piece of Music - something which convinces me - that the Ajoy has taken upon himself ,the task of interpreting a glorious past , instead of blindly imitating it.

Bade Ghulam Alis rendering will always be the benchmark . no doubt , but spare a thought for Ajoy who sets up the mood for the song so beautifully-

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/y1bl

This is a track that will always remain in my top 100 .....
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#17  Postby kalgada78 » 28 Nov 2006 21:12

Kulkarni Sir,
What a recording!! i wonder,if anyone can sing like him!!
who is the other voice?he sounds young,but very promising too.
Thanks much!
Sarma.
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#18  Postby coolkarni » 29 Nov 2006 10:14

sripathi
I plucked this out for you especially - a rare noncommercial charukesi.

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/6n3e

Ajoy goes on to
**compare and contrast Amir Khans method and bade Ghulam Alis method,
**Pay tribute to Chennai as a centre of musical excellence and despairs that Music is something he can never MASTER (while negotiating a few delicate angles of Charukesi)
**Show the Mukhda of the composition ...

an eventful track

Sarma- The accompanying singer is his disciple No 1.
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#19  Postby vasanthakokilam » 29 Nov 2006 11:48

Doesn't that third set of swarams in the Bhairavi piece, between 20:50 - 21:20 sound very much CMish? Nicely done.
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#20  Postby kalgada78 » 29 Nov 2006 19:19

aahaa..again an extordinary charukesi!!This man appears to have mastered the notes.
If he sings Sa,it is Sa,Pa is Pa,Dha is Dha.And iam simply surprised by his humility
endaro Mahanubhavulu..andariki vandanamulu.
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#21  Postby coolkarni » 29 Nov 2006 19:26

Sarma
Now Why dont you sing Bhayyan Na Dharo for us , here !
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#22  Postby rshankar » 29 Nov 2006 23:40

I second that request!
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#23  Postby vijay » 30 Nov 2006 10:46

Excellent, Charukeshi is a revelation - not much to do with its carnatic counterpart except for the scale. There is much to learn for carnatic musicians, irrespective of what purists might have to say...
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#24  Postby coolkarni » 30 Nov 2006 11:57

Jayaram .
If you have not downloaded these last few tracks , please do try this last one.
In a way , this is a fine proof of what we have been wanting to say about jugalbandis.
Jugalbandis are not about addressing the needs of the purists on both sides of the divide (as you would like to put it).
It is more of offering a peek into the joys of the OTHER system.
To the carnatic purist ,( Ensaar hadidde hadthare - hadu marethu hogideya -as one of my kannada friends puts it) it is the possibility of swooning over the image of Lord Siva just by looking at the Moon - as Ajoy keeps singing here in Yaman CHANDRAMA LALAT PAR ...-
Everytrime i listen to this track, the tune sticks for weeks.

To the HM Purist it is the lilt of a BMK Thillana , so wonderfully woven into the proceedings here..

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/85wa

With this, I rest my case.Happy listening.
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#25  Postby jayaram » 01 Dec 2006 15:37

Shashi,

I can see what you are doing here...trying to convert purists like me into jugalbandi lovers! ;)

Seriously, years ago once I was at the home of a family friend and an ardent CM rasika in Trivandrum. This senior gentleman had his whole room filled with spools and tapes of GNB, Ramnad Krishnan, MDR and the likes. Whenever I used to go to his place, he would play hours and hours of these masters' music (while making copies for me) and I would be in seventh heaven. On this day, he told me he had recd a jugalbandi recording and insisted I listen to it. I was shocked, and asked him if he was serious! He told me he made an exception to just this one. Guess which one it was? Yes, TNS and Ajoy singing Dharmavati!

I must admit I didn't listen to it that carefully, because I was already prejudiced (and still am to an extent!). In any case, shall listen to Ajoy-da again this weekend.
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