Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Carnatic Musicians
srkris
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Postby srkris » 24 Nov 2007, 01:51

Haha what a bet. But I would say both of them were right in their own ways. One held that the feat was nearly impossible, and the other proved that being nearly impossible was not the same as being absolutely impossible.

kaplingat
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Postby kaplingat » 27 Nov 2007, 12:32

Btw Sri Rajamani's reminisces about Mani Iyer is coming in the Malayalam weekly "Kalakaumudi". He has already covered Mani Iyer's early life, association with Chembai, Palakkad Rama Bhagavathar, TR Mahalingam, Ariyakudi etc.

srkris
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Postby srkris » 27 Nov 2007, 12:38

Ohh does someone have a copy of these? Maybe I should ask Shri Rajamani himself.

vijay
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Postby vijay » 27 Nov 2007, 13:49

Suguna Purushottaman is also famous for being able to do this. It is quite amazing to watch for someone who cannot even keep one thaalam properly!

mahesh_narayan
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Postby mahesh_narayan » 27 Nov 2007, 16:05

My guru's guru Shri Trichy Swaminatha Iyer who lived in Mumbai was also known to be adept in avadhana pallavis. It certainly requires supernormal concentration and assidulous practice.

tharikita
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Postby tharikita » 27 Nov 2007, 17:22

I have had the good fortune of learning this 8x7 on one hand and 14x4 on the other from Sri Rajamani a couple of years ago. It was so fascinating that I went without sleep and lost all inclination to do anything other than getting this right . I have managed to do this with 14x4 on the right and 8x7 on the left and saying thakadimithakita (7) eight times. When I finally got it, I ran upto him to show what I could do, and then he pulled out another card..
He reversed it by putting 14x4 on the left and 8x7 on the right! I was left rubbing my eyes when he did this and he did it at slow and top speeds! I don't have a month for that exercise and I have a feeling I will be totally confused at the end of it all. I better hang on to what I can know/do.
He is doing a lecture demonstration at Sri Karaikudi Mani's school in Chennai, in Dec. I am not exactly sure of the date. If you do attend this program, you could ask him to show this technique.
I shall post the date shortly in a couple of days..

thathwamasi
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Postby thathwamasi » 28 Nov 2007, 17:28

<Tharikita>..Excellant...He astounded me by reciting a complex korvai with two thalams in his hand. He also showed me one more thalam which I forgot now...Please do post the dates, I am quite eager to meet him as well. Its been 5 and a half years now.

tharikita
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Postby tharikita » 29 Nov 2007, 04:56

It's not a lecdem rather a thaniarvatanam at Astika Samajam, Venus Colony on Dec 15th @ 5 PM.

venkatakailasam
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Palakad Mani Iyer

Postby venkatakailasam » 14 Nov 2010, 14:39

An interesting article by Subbudu about the artist can be found at http://palghatmaniiyer.org/1_23_Subbudu.html#
If one goes inside by clicking Audio you can find:

The Story of a legend - Vikatan book on Mridanga Medhai Palakkadu Mani Iyer.

The Ananda Vikatan publication titled Palakadu Mani Iyer authored by Shri. Charukesi is an excellent recollection of memorable events from Late Sri. Mani Iyer's life. This book is written in Thamizh. You could be one of the rasikas of Mridangam and Mani Iyer, who can understand spoken Thamizh, but are challenged to read it. For others interested in listening to the content, this could serve as an audio book.
venkatakailasam

rajeshnat
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Re: Palakad Mani Iyer

Postby rajeshnat » 14 Nov 2010, 15:13

Mods ,
Duplicate thread . Merge with the parent viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2381&hilit=mani+iyer&start=25

venkatakailasam
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Re: Palakad Mani Iyer

Postby venkatakailasam » 14 Nov 2010, 17:05

rajeshnat wrote:Mods ,
Duplicate thread . Merge with the parent http://www.rasikas.org/forum/viewtopic. ... r&start=25


When I searched for Palghat Mani Iyer, I got the results of the concerts where he played Mirudhagam and not this link.
This may be due to use of Palghat instead of Palakad
On earlier occasions also the link was not available in search results.
Perhaps the distortion needs attention.

venkatakailasam

ragam-talam
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Re: Palakad Mani Iyer

Postby ragam-talam » 14 Nov 2010, 17:47

Yes, I had a similar issue with the Sethalapathi thread.

When I searched with all possible versions of his name, the old thread never turned up. I suspect this may also have something to do with the old threads that were created in the old forum not being selected in our search now...

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby vasanthakokilam » 15 Nov 2010, 01:44

merged. ( different spellings do cause issues with search..you have to try a few different variations.. Not sure but there may also be search issues with topics from the previous rev of the forum. )

srkris
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby srkris » 24 Nov 2010, 21:03

The forum is getting old :-)

venkatakailasam
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby venkatakailasam » 25 Nov 2010, 07:03

The forum is getting old

you are an exception :grin:

venkatakailasam

rajeshnat
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby rajeshnat » 17 Dec 2010, 07:29

Agreed singing with a low pitch is a problem, but certainly avoiding mike is bit counter productive.
Shri PMI's opinion in archives of the hindu
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article956857.ece

srkris
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby srkris » 17 Dec 2010, 17:51

Nice anecdote

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby Ramasubramanian M.K » 17 Dec 2010, 20:58

I agree with PMI on the pitch aspect-- he tried to avoid playing when the vocalist--no matter how great a Vidwan he may be (a la MDR)--had a sruthi below Oru Kattai--First the mridangam would sound like "as if the instrument was immersed in a deep well for days"--his own words. At the same time his reason for avoiding female vocalists was that the pitch was on the other side high side--only when even the female vocalists like DKP and MLV--due to aging--had lowered their pitches he began accompanying them -not because of any other ulterior(financial) motives attributed to him by detractors !!

As an aside about vocalists'pitches; I HAVE HEARD A STORY ABOUT T.CHOWDIAH'S EXPERIMENT WITH 7 STRINGS(VS NORMAL 4)--he found the vocalists' pitches(of his times!!!) too low that it was not possible to display of his talents --hence he invented the 7 strings that gave the volume that would "drown" out the low pitch!!! Imagine he accompanied Chembai,Naina Pillai and others of his times whose pitch was far higher than the ones that followed them. if even these pitches were considered low by accompaniments,PMI's views on pitch seem to be justified!!!

Re; his objection to the mike ( in addition to the pitch aspect he riled about) was due to his penchant for preparing his Mridangam for a concert--the work on the Meettu Chapu and Thoppi parts that he does prior to the concert--no last minute rushing to the stage and tuning the instrument -- should be seen to be believed.His point against the mike(as expressed to me by his son Rajamony--no self-serving statement --I can assure the readers) was that without the mike his playing and his instrument would sound far superior to others--whereas the mike plays the role of leveller(sort of dumbing-down if you will) and that his distinctive playing may not be really distinguishable(I am no acoustic expert and as such I have to take his statement @ face value!!).

cacm
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby cacm » 18 Dec 2010, 02:20

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:I agree with PMI on the pitch aspect-- he tried to avoid playing when the vocalist--no matter how great a Vidwan he may be (a la MDR)--had a sruthi below Oru Kattai--First the mridangam would sound like "as if the instrument was immersed in a deep well for days"--his own words. At the same time his reason for avoiding female vocalists was that the pitch was on the other side high side--only when even the female vocalists like DKP and MLV--due to aging--had lowered their pitches he began accompanying them -not because of any other ulterior(financial) motives attributed to him by detractors !!

PMI was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT especially given the TERRIBLE ACCOUSTICS of halls & the ANTIQUATED PUBLIC ADDRESS SYSTEMS still being used in CHENNAI. VKV

Re; his objection to the mike ( in addition to the pitch aspect he riled about) was due to his penchant for preparing his Mridangam for a concert--the work on the Meettu Chapu and Thoppi parts that he does prior to the concert--no last minute rushing to the stage and tuning the instrument -- should be seen to be believed.His point against the mike(as expressed to me by his son Rajamony--no self-serving statement --I can assure the readers) was that without the mike his playing and his instrument would sound far superior to others--whereas the mike plays the role of leveller(sort of dumbing-down if you will) and that his distinctive playing may not be really distinguishable(I am no acoustic expert and as such I have to take his statement @ face value!!).

Again he was totally correct.......VKV

thenpaanan
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby thenpaanan » 18 Dec 2010, 22:33

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:...
As an aside about vocalists'pitches; I HAVE HEARD A STORY ABOUT T.CHOWDIAH'S EXPERIMENT WITH 7 STRINGS(VS NORMAL 4)--he found the vocalists' pitches(of his times!!!) too low that it was not possible to display of his talents --hence he invented the 7 strings that gave the volume that would "drown" out the low pitch!!! Imagine he accompanied Chembai,Naina Pillai and others of his times whose pitch was far higher than the ones that followed them. if even these pitches were considered low by accompaniments,PMI's views on pitch seem to be justified!!!


To my ears the contemporary Carnatic violin is actually tuned an octave higher relative to the pitch of the singer. Thus the violin for a high-pitched female singer (such as MSS) could sound very shrill in the upper register and violinists such as VVS compensated by switching to the lower octave (e.g. MSS at "chukkalarAyanEE" in "pakkalanilabadi"). But I have never heard any discussion about this except one mention in one of Rangaramanuja Iyengar's books where he has also expressed his displeasure at the lowering sruthi. We in CM are quite proud of our sensitivity to small differences in shruti (and rightly so in my opinion) but are absolutely non-discerning about octave differences.

Perhaps Chowdiah's violin was tuned to the same sruthi (on the "main" strings) as the singer and hence he encountered the problem that other violinists did not complain about, even when playing for MDR. I cannot tell for sure from the Chowdaiah recordings because the sound of his 7 string violin is so broad/resonant that it is hard to tell which octave he is playing in. Anyone else notice this phenomenon?

In any case, this facility of octave switching is easy for the violin (just change strings) but not so easy for the mridangam. I wonder if there will be any structural changes to the mridangam in the future to handle this problem -- my anecdotal tally says there are more male singers who sing at C or below these days than ever before.

-Then Paanan

Ramasubramanian M.K
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby Ramasubramanian M.K » 20 Dec 2010, 18:59

Thanks Thenpannan: That was illuminating--I had not noticed the point about MSS and VVS--astute observation.Like you I put more emphasis on the Vocalist's mastery over the Octaves and how clear the lower Panchamam sounds if at all the artist even dares attempt it without producing a "hiss" and leaving it to our imagination that he/she is touching it!!!

As an aside, this was brought to my attention in my earlier years of listening by MS Mami-- she will demonstrate(I even have a cassette recording where she has illustrated in one of our family sessions) how the octaves should be traversed and what does it take to hit the lower octave Panchamam(even Madhyamam in some cases) and how the top Panchamam should not sound shrill or or a "false' voice--she attributed it to Sadakam and used to cringe whenever people innocently comment on the "gift of her voice"(as if to deny her intense practice !!).

My liking for both Mali and TNR was that both revelled in touching the lower octaves with clarity and purity.(Note the TNR piece in Kambodhi and Charukesi posted in this forum recently by Thimma and Bilahari--how TNR has handled the lower octave effectively--this is for Vidyarthis to learn and assimilate.

YES,sometimes even if the pitch were right how the vocalist/Instrumentalist makes full use of the range is very important. I may be biased but I look for younger artistes today handling this aspect well--no matter how good their other attributes (of music I mean) are!!!

ugk
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby ugk » 28 Dec 2010, 05:22

Someone told me that Palghat Mani Iyer invented the Kappi mridangam. And that it did not exist prior to him
What do you make of this?

kam
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Postby kam » 10 Jun 2011, 17:58

Dear rasikas today is Sri Palghat Mani Iyer sir birthday.Here is a wonderful piece of him :

http://www.4shared.com/audio/V3A1mf-j/E ... ITIVO.html

advaitin
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby advaitin » 12 Jun 2011, 03:31

Kam

lovely clip, thanks

sivachinta1965
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Re: Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

Postby sivachinta1965 » 16 Jun 2011, 08:09

Rasikas

Anybody knows about the confrontation( on mridamgam) between Mani Iyer and Subbudu at Mullakkal Temple ( during concert), Alapuzha, Kerala?

Sivaprasad


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